Thanks bro Snowwy,

Yes you are right with the observation. It's a long article and I might have missed sometime in between the article or failed a correlation to blend it well. However, the whole point of the revelation is that, when you have a new birth, it is not good that this new man be alone, the Holy Spirit is the helper intend to/for believers. I kind of didn't finish the article yesterday though because I was in a rush going out. It all boils down to the need to receive the Holy Spirit.

On your Second thought about the OT Holy Spirit and that of the NT. Let us do some puzzle here on the following verses and let's see how we can chew/explain them,

"For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb. Luke 1:15 nkjv

And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:41 nkjv

Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying: Luke 1:67 nkjv

Jesus HAD NOT BEING BORN IN THESE VERSE AND YET IT WAS RECORDED THESE PEOPLE HERE WERE "FILLED". I want us to shew some heavy stuffs here. Are you ready? So if these verse are considered NT but Jesus had not being born yet but it is recorded that they were "filled". I thought it should be that the Holy Spirit "CAME UPON" them. What is your take on these verses since it is the Outpouring of the Holy Spirit that "filled" a believer and also remember, these people above are NOT yet born again but yet "filled".

Secondly, Let's chew on this heavy Stuff below:

And when He (Jesus) had said this, He breathed on [them], and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. John 20:22 nkjv.

What do you think happened here? If they received the Holy Spirit here, What is the need for Acts 2 Holy Spirit coming upon them since they already received the Holy Spirit in John 20:22.

TIE UP JOHN 20:22 WITH THESE BELOW VERSE:

Acts 2:4 nkjv: And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 4:8, Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, "Rulers of the people and elders of Israel:

Acts 4:31, And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.

Acts 9:17, And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, [fn] who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

Thirdly, Look at these verses again:

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17 nkjv

he said to them, " did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" So they said to him, "We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." Acts 19:2 nkjv

I raised 3 issues here. What is your understanding when you read these THREE dimensions/manifestation/operations of the Holy Spirit "CAME UPON", "FILLED" and "RECEIVE". You can explain one by one or explain the three together as you deemed it fit. Let's chew some stuffs bro.

@Goshen,
I would rather we give room for the main topic well except the OP sees this a reference point to the main topic.
However let me attend to a few things you said:

Goshen360: Thanks bro Snowwy,
"For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb. Luke 1:15 nkjv

And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:41 nkjv

Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying: Luke 1:67 nkjv

Jesus HAD NOT BEING BORN IN THESE VERSE AND YET IT WAS RECORDED THESE PEOPLE HERE WERE "FILLED". I want us to shew some heavy stuffs here. Are you ready? So if these verse are considered NT but Jesus had not being born yet but it is recorded that they were "filled". I thought it should be that the Holy Spirit "CAME UPON" them. What is your take on these verses since it is the Outpouring of the Holy Spirit that "filled" a believer and also remember, these people above are NOT yet born again but yet "filled".

The family of Zechariah were so blessed/priviledged for each and everyone of them to have been filled with the Holy Spirit. (Father, mother and child)
I said in my previous post that IN THE NT (where the book of Luke was also recorded) you hear more of being 'filled' with the Holy Ghost...so I do not see what you mean by asking why it is not 'came upon'.

Besides there are actually records of the spirit 'coming upon' also in the NT but you read more of being filled.
In each case of 'being filled' or the 'Holy spirit coming upon', there is always a manifestation: either they speak in tongues or prophesy or sing praises or do the 'unusual'.
One thing is distinct (except proven otherwise), the record of being 'filled with the Holy Spirit' occured in the NT except for Ex.31:3 (where God filled Bezaleel with the spirit [note the small 's' same as in Ez.37:14-which could mean 'breathe'] of God IN wisdom, knowledge etc.)

Also, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of pentecost showed such a large number of people receiving the Holy Spirit(as promised by Jesus) at a time. This was where the ministry of the Holy Spirit to all men was launched.
In this case, anyone who desires the Holy Spirit can be filled.


On 'receiving' the Holy Ghost, I noticed that there was no statement of a manifestation until the Holy Spirit actually came upon them. Acts 19:2,6; 8:17-19; John 20:22.

Waow, this topic is great...makes you study the word more and get insight.

Snowwy: @Goshen,
I would rather we give room for the main topic well except the OP sees this a reference point to the main topic.

In my own view, I don't think the OP will see us derailing this thread in the sense that, many of our thread on this religious session is being polluted by Atheists and we thank God this heavy stuffs is hidden in this thread of 3 kinds of men. On the contrary, I will "assume" this OP will also learn some heavy stuffs in this as we have already dealt with the three kinds of men. Remember this our "hidden" topic is as a result of KamiLara's request that we expatiate more on the three kinds of men. I responded to KamiLara's request that i will add more nudget on how God never intended that man should be alone and that He will make him an helper so I added that nuggets. I added it because I believe the Holy Spirit is vital for the new man(the Spiritual man). I hope you see the connection now.

However, in other NOT to derail this thread, let us finish on these 3 kinds of men and we will come back on this Holy Spirit for Man. What kind of man among the three does the Holy Spirit belong to? The Spiritual man off course. Why not the Holy Spirit for the body or the soul? We will answer the question as we expand on each of the three kinds of man. Okay.

KEEP YOUR PLACE/FINGERS ON THIS HOLY SPIRIT STUFF. IT WILL BE USEFUL WHEN WE GET BACK TO THE SPIRITUAL MAN. Let's expand more on EACH OF THE THREE KINDS OF MAN.

Mabell's thought was that,

1. THE NATURAL MAN: a matural man is that is not born again

2. THE SPIRITUAL MAN: The spiritual man is a man born of God

3. THE CARNAL MAN: This kind of man is in-between the natural and spiritual man.

Goshen360's thought is that, I encapsuled what Mabell said and represent it in Each human being and I presented it thus:

Our Body (Natural man); Our Soul (Carnal man) and Our Spirit (Spiritual man)

Now let's tie up everything together. I will take 3 days to expand on each of the men, starting with the natural man. One day for each. Stay blessed. I will be right back tomorrow.

newmi: At what point can a believe or a chriistian be termed rebellous?
Because almosst immediately, the statement of the prophet samuel comes to mind ". . . For rebellion is the sin of witch-craft"

A Christian who is not subject to authority can be termed rebellious

The Natural Man - The Body/Flesh.

And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being(soul). Gen 2:7 nkjv (some translations have living "soul", that why I put it in bracket,okay)

First, we define man even though we might not fully define man because the definition of man goes beyond what I will teach here. I am just going to make it short so as to attend to other things for today in my schedule. Okay.

In the verse above, we see that the LORD God "formed" man out/from the dust of the ground. This formation is great. To form or make is different from to create. In the account of creation, we find the use of three words namely, "create, form and make/made". To create is to make something exist OUT OF NOTHING. This word, "create" is only attributed to God as ONLY God is the subject of creation. In other words, ONLY GOD CAN CREATE. To form or make/made is to bring something into existence OUT OF OR FROM SOMETHING THAT ALREADY EXIST. Now, we see the LORD God "forming" man OUT OF or FROM the dust of the ground. That is, this "dust of the ground" already existed.

This formation is the PHYSICAL BODY OF MAN. When I was doing some studies about man some times back. It stroked my mind that if God formed/made man from the dust of the ground, it will make sense that we should all be moving around in our physical body AS DUST INSTEAD OF FLESH. This is where God is great. I don't know how God converted "dust of the ground" into "flesh" and yet "flesh" is still "dust of the ground". Glory to God. This sounds mysterious but when a man dies, this flesh/body returns as/to dust of the ground. If we put it in a mystery, man's body is a moving or physical dust.

Now in the above verse, we see that this man (structure from "dust of the ground), that is the physical body does not become a "living being or living soul" until the "breath" was breathed into that structure. This is God reproducing into man. If we put it in another way, man is NO man without this breath which makes him a living soul. Hence what make man the real man is not the dust of the ground but the breath through which that structure from the dust of the ground became a living soul.

When God breathed into this "dust structure", many things happened from my understanding:

One, this dust transformed to our "flesh or physical body" as we have now. This is the being of man that serves as physical or visible to natural/visible world. This flesh/body is what houses or serves as vehicle to the real man or spirit/soul being/man which is the from the breath of God. This is what is referred to as natural man/being or as body/flesh

Two, the image and likeness of God was reproduced or formed/made in man became a living soul/spirit. Becoming a living soul and God creating man in His image/likeness translated to man having a spirit because God is a spirit. Hence, the real man (soul or spirit or breath) that is enveloped in a dust (now flesh/body and natural/visible/touchy) is the spirit of/in man. So if you like call it spirit or soul, it's the same thing. At this point, man's spirit should NOT be confused as God's Spirit/Breath. This is just to establish the fact that God created man in His image/likeness for God is a Spirit, that is God reproduced in man. Take a look at this:

"God [is] Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." John 4:24 nkjv.

The burden [fn] of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: Zech.12:1 nkjv

But [there is] a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding. Job 32:8 nkjv

Three, man also possess a mind. The being in/of man that "knows or for knowledge/understands"

"For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Gen 3:5 nkjv

Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. Gen 3:7 nkjv

the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, Eph 1:18 nkjv

So far, I have been able to establish that real or actual man is spirit/soul who also possess a mind and lives/houses it in a body. In other words, the Real man (Spiritual man) has/possess a Mind (Carnal man) and lives or is housed in a body/flesh (Natural man). The Natural man, our body or flesh is "dust" given to man to contact his natural world. It has different parts so as to function properly during his contact with the natural world. This Natural man (our body) is NOT born again when the real man (spirit man) encounters new birth. It remains the same. As our body contacts the visible or natural world, it is tend towards corruption and hence, we are admonished to present our bodies a living sacrifice to God. Romans 12:1. We are also reminded due to the tendencies of our body (Natural man) being corrupted from the physical world that our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit and that we are to glorify God in our body. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20.

It is our responsibilities to use or body (natural man) to the glory of God. I will keep expanding on the body as I talk about the mind and the spirit of a man. God bless you.

Goshen360: The Natural Man - The Body/Flesh.

And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being(soul). Gen 2:7 nkjv (some translations have living "soul", that why I put it in bracket,okay)

First, we define man even though we might not fully define man because the definition of man goes beyond what I will teach here. I am just going to make it short so as to attend to other things for today in my schedule. Okay.

In the verse above, we see that the LORD God "formed" man out/from the dust of the ground. This formation is great. To form or make is different from to create. In the account of creation, we find the use of three words namely, "create, form and make/made". To create is to make something exist OUT OF NOTHING. This word, "create" is only attributed to God as ONLY God is the subject of creation. In other words, ONLY GOD CAN CREATE. To form or make/made is to bring something into existence OUT OF OR FROM SOMETHING THAT ALREADY EXIST. Now, we see the LORD God "forming" man OUT OF or FROM the dust of the ground. That is, this "dust of the ground" already existed.

This formation is the PHYSICAL BODY OF MAN. When I was doing some studies about man some times back. It stroked my mind that if God formed/made man from the dust of the ground, it will make sense that we should all be moving around in our physical body AS DUST INSTEAD OF FLESH. This is where God is great. I don't know how God converted "dust of the ground" into "flesh" and yet "flesh" is still "dust of the ground". Glory to God. This sounds mysterious but when a man dies, this flesh/body returns as/to dust of the ground. If we put it in a mystery, man's body is a moving or physical dust.

Now in the above verse, we see that this man (structure from "dust of the ground), that is the physical body does not become a "living being or living soul" until the "breath" was breathed into that structure. This is God reproducing into man. If we put it in another way, man is NO man without this breath which makes him a living soul. Hence what make man the real man is not the dust of the ground but the breath through which that structure from the dust of the ground became a living soul.

When God breathed into this "dust structure", many things happened from my understanding:

One, this dust transformed to our "flesh or physical body" as we have now. This is the being of man that serves as physical or visible to natural/visible world. This flesh/body is what houses or serves as vehicle to the real man or spirit/soul being/man which is the from the breath of God. This is what is referred to as natural man/being or as body/flesh

Two, the image and likeness of God was reproduced or formed/made in man became a living soul/spirit. Becoming a living soul and God creating man in His image/likeness translated to man having a spirit because God is a spirit. Hence, the real man (soul or spirit or breath) that is enveloped in a dust (now flesh/body and natural/visible/touchy) is the spirit of/in man. So if you like call it spirit or soul, it's the same thing. At this point, man's spirit should NOT be confused as God's Spirit/Breath. This is just to establish the fact that God created man in His image/likeness for God is a Spirit, that is God reproduced in man. Take a look at this:

"God [is] Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." John 4:24 nkjv.

The burden [fn] of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: Zech.12:1 nkjv

But [there is] a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding. Job 32:8 nkjv

Three, man also possess a mind. The being in/of man that "knows or for knowledge/understands"

"For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Gen 3:5 nkjv

Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. Gen 3:7 nkjv

the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, Eph 1:18 nkjv

So far, I have been able to establish that real or actual man is spirit/soul who also possess a mind and lives/houses it in a body. In other words, the Real man (Spiritual man) has/possess a Mind (Carnal man) and lives or is housed in a body/flesh (Natural man). The Natural man, our body or flesh is "dust" given to man to contact his natural world. It has different parts so as to function properly during his contact with the natural world. This Natural man (our body) is NOT born again when the real man (spirit man) encounters new birth. It remains the same. As our body contacts the visible or natural world, it is tend towards corruption and hence, we are admonished to present our bodies a living sacrifice to God. Romans 12:1. We are also reminded due to the tendencies of our body (Natural man) being corrupted from the physical world that our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit and that we are to glorify God in our body. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20.

It is our responsibilities to use or body (natural man) to the glory of God. I will keep expanding on the body as I talk about the mind and the spirit of a man. God bless you.

@Goshen360

God bless you real good for your labour of love as you teach teacher

I and my Father are one John 10:30 KJV

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD Deu 6:4 KJV

Old habits die hard. The Potter is at work with dust again

John 9:6 KJV:

When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle,
and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,

John 9:11 KJV:

He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes,
and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam,
and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.

^
@KamiLara,
Waow...rev...never looked at it that way.
Indeed Christ was again forming the eyes of the man to replace the sight he had lost just as God formed man from the dust.
Thanks...it is awesome.

^
Yes o, @ Snowwy,

That is the revelation from KamiLara, "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him". Col 1:16 nkjv.

The same kind of revelation Jesus expressed, when He told Peter after many struggles to "launch out into the deep"....because He was in the beginning and understands what He created inside the "deep" from the beginning. Tie these two verses together, something will leap inside of you.....trust me.

Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught. Luke 5:4 kjv/nkjv

AND

The earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. Gen 1:2 nkjv


Hey brother, I LOVE THE WORD OF GOD. FULL OF MYSTERIES AND MYSTERIOUS THINGS OF LIFE. Sometimes, when I dive into the pool of the word, I get drown in the revelation of the word. Sometimes they are tooo powerful for me to express them with words. I enjoy it bro.

Hmmmnnn... Me I don't agree o. With my understanding of miracles , the chemical composition of the sand has nothing to do with that miracle. He could have used saw dust .

Eternal life is
1. The life of God
2. The life that powers God
3. The divinity of God
4. The present kind of life a christian is supposed to life and not after 'he leaves earth'

mabell: Eternal life is
1. The life of God
2. The life that powers God
3. The divinity of God
4. The present kind of life a christian is supposed to life and not after 'he leaves earth'

Nice and interesting definitions of eternal life but l think l particularly like the definition of eternal life given in John 17:3
New International Version (NIV)
"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent"


From the moment l discovered this profound definition of eternal life alot has changed for me and with me. Eternal life is tied to knowledge that is the quality or quality in terms of measure of eternal life you enjoy as a subscriber of that kind of life by virtue of the new birth in christ Jesus is a function of the much of knowledge you have acquired now not mere head knowledge no that is simply information but rather relational knowledge, knowledge of participation that brings the knower in sync with the known.

Thanks newmi but an observation,
most christians believe eternal life cannot be lived here on earth but in the world to come
they don't relate it to the NOW life in Christ.what can you say about this?

mabell: Thanks newmi but an observation,
most christians believe eternal life cannot be lived here on earth but in the world to come
they don't relate it to the NOW life in Christ.what can you say about this?

Wow now thats is an interestingly clever question the point to note is that eternal life does not only excutively mean the divine luxuary to live forever afterall even those condenmed to eternal damnation in hell or the lake of fire would also live forever serving their purnishment hence its often "ETERNAL DAMNATION" But rather eternal life refers to the quality of life that is excusively indicative to the God-kind the God-kind being a class of being. Eternal life describes or defines features that characterizes the "everyday" experience of "The God-kind". There are certain experience that are associated with God so to have eternal life is to be subscribed to these unique experiences a life of dominion and constant victory, a life where to win or winning is a life style and the supernatural is natural.
2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

The day I learnt that eternal life actually begins for a believer from when he accepts Jesus as Lord and saviour and receives the holy spirit then he starts living in the kingdom of God (righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost), my whole view of Christianity changed.
It was truly an awesome day.
That is why one cannot afford to live an apologetic Christian life and one should enjoy God in all areas.
Thanks Newmi and Mabell for the re-emphasis on that word.

Thank God snowwy, I wish people of God will know,understand and walk in this truth.
If they do, their lives will be an unending spring of Joy and they can boldly minister this gospel to people all over the world!

mabell: Thanks newmi but an observation,
most christians believe eternal life cannot be lived here on earth but in the world to come
they don't relate it to the NOW life in Christ.what can you say about this?

That's when some get offended when asked about their salvation , they say " we can't be sure until we get there"( heaven)

Joagbaje:

That's when some get offended when asked about their salvation , they say " we can't be sure until we get there"( heaven)

Agreed Joagbaje, That its the reason why the salvation of some people are still questionable because they don't understand or are not genuinely saved, which has caused a lot of decay to the faith, even has Paul pointed out to Timothy when living for Macedonia.

How do you mean pls?

Roman 10: 9-15

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10[b]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.[/b]

11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Many only confessed with their mouths but not truly coming from their hearts, they denial the works of righteousness which is an important product of salvation. They speak heresies and doctrines not embedded in the words of God, but yet call themselves Christians.

Romans 10: 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

1 Tim 1:6-11, 19-20