Kay 17:
Yea I agree with you. But you have not accounted for the holy spirit and Jesus.
I thought God was the Creator?

Read the OP again.

The Godhead

What man cannot do, however, God has done, in the very structure of His creation. "The invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead" (Romans 1:20). His tri-universe (space, matter, and time, with each component unique in definition and function, yet permeating and comprising the whole) perfectly "models" His triune nature (Father, Son, Holy Spirit--each distinct, yet each the whole).

For more . . . .

You mentioned 1 x 1 x 1, which accounts for only one person.

Kay 17: You mentioned 1 x 1 x 1, which accounts for only one person.

1 x 1 x 1 = 1. The Father x The Son x The Holy Spirit = God. Simples

I just wish that diagram was in the bible...lol


The diagram got me asking:::Are they equal Gods or un-equal
If any of the Gods amongst the 3 there is greater than the other then that diagram is null and void...
And then ur formular 1 * 1 * 1 equals 1 is flawed

Just like d way goodluck isn't equal with obama,altho they are all presidents...

Joe up to you...

How are you doing today man?

ijawkid: I just wish that diagram was in the bible...lol


The diagram got me asking:::Are they equal Gods or un-equal
If any of the Gods amongst the 3 there is greater than the other then that diagram is null and void...
And then ur formular 1 * 1 * 1 equals 1 is flawed

Just like d way goodluck isn't equal with obama,altho they are all presidents...

Joe up to you...

How are you doing today man?

Our Lord Jesus Christ is equal with the Father in His divine nature (John 10:30).

@Ola

Jesus = 1 person

Holy Spirit = 1 person

The Father = 1 person.

As persons they are seperable and distinct.

However if Jesus+Holy Spirit+the Father = GODhead

Godhead is not = Jesus; since its of a set of three members.
In other words 1+1+1=3. 3 is not = 1

The alternative is 1=1=1=1;

Jesus=Holy Spirit=the Father=Godhead,

Thus Jesus = God, and Jesus = HolySpirit.

In other words 1x1x1=1

For those who are mathematically inclined. Let's see how a mathematician used Genesis 1: and John 1:1 to solve some problems.

Checkout the mysteries of Pi and e (the Natural log and) Euler's identity

e ^{i pi} + 1 = 0 (Euler's number or Euler's identity)

These are five constants that symbolizes the four major branches of classical mathematics, which was discovered by the devout Christian Euler.

• 1. Arithmetic is represented by 1 and 0;

• 2. Algebra is represented by i

• 3. Geometry is represented by Pi

• 4. Analysis is represented by e


It connects the five most important constants in mathematics (e, P[i]i[/i], i, 0 and 1) along with three of the most important mathematical operations (addition, multiplication and exponentiation).

e has been discovered in the Bible in a rather unusual way. The Greek alphabet has a number corresponding to each letter of its alphabet. If you take the first verse from John 1:1 in the New Testament, in its original Greek;

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

and then calculate using this formula:

The number of letters x the product of the letters divided by the number of words x the product of the words;

You will end up with:

= 2.7183 x 10⁶⁵

e correct to 4 decimal places.

e ^{i Pi} + 1 = 0

Pi is also found in the Bible in a rather unusual way. The Hebrew alphabet also has a number corresponding to each letter in its alphabet.

If you take the first sentence of Genesis 1:1 in its original Hebrew:

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" = "Beresheet bara Elohim, et ha-Shamayim et ha-Eretz."

and calculate:

The number of letters x the product of the letters divided by the number of words x the products of the words

= 3.1416 x 10¹⁷

= Pi correct to 4 decimal places.

e ^{i Pi} + 1 = 0

i was proposed in the 1600's as an imaginary number and is defined as the square root of -1. It was proposed to help solve equations like x2+1=0
Today[i] i[/i], though originally proposed as an imaginary number to solve algebraic problems, is very useful in science and engineering for solving "real world" problems.

That Pi would be found to combine with the number e, and with the number i, to produce such elegant equation is like discovering that three broken pieces of pottery, each made in different countries, could be fitted together to make a perfect sphere. The finding strongly argues for a overarching "Intelligent Design" to mathematics from God.

To further discover that P[i]i[/i] can be found in Genesis 1:1, and e can be found in John 1:1 is like finding that the potter of this "perfect sphere" of mathematics signed His name and is none other than our Lord Jesus Christ !!! I am just left wondering if Jesus hid i, the square root of -1, in the Bible somewhere. Maybe in John 3:16

Euler is considered among the greatest Mathematicians of all time. He was a fervent Christian who defended the Christian faith against many notorious Atheists of his day, such as Voltaire. Among his many accomplishments in higher mathematics, Euler also discovered the "most famous formula" in all of mathematics:

e ^{iP[i]i [/i]} + 1 = 0 This formula is called Euler's Number or Euler's Identity.

Euler's number has been called "the most famous of all formulas."

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=c7d9831470f883b65e3d

Mr Ola, we were addressing the Trinity to which we await response from you. Thank U

@ola.....I'll come run some tutorials with u on mathematics...lol.....
Ur so good with maths..
..where have u been all this while when I had problems with maths in my 100 level in d university....


Seeee!!!!!


D trinity doctrine leads to so much wahala...

Like I just said in some1 else's post,if I wasn't a unitarian I would have just been a strong catholic,......
U know y??

So that if I have to believe in d trinity,then let me believe it to the end..


I'll make Jesus almighty God,fling Yahweh to the background,appoint a new mediator since Jesus can't mediate to himself and for himself.......

And u know who that new substitute mediator and high priest will be

MARY the mother of God...

I know that u dnt buy the whole mary mother of God ish,,,, but we got no choice....


These are all results of the trinity dogma...

Just because Jesus is now almighty God accordin to d almighty trinity dogma....


My problem is if d trinity dogma wasn't consisting of 3 persons who are in-seperable then we might understand....

I prefer the MODALISM ish more....

Kay 17:

@Ola

Jesus = 1 person Holy Spirit = 1 person The Father = 1 person.

As persons they are seperable and distinct.

However if Jesus+Holy Spirit+the Father = GODhead

Rather, Jesus Christ x Holy Spirit x Father = God

Kay 17:

Godhead is not = Jesus; since its of a set of three members.

In other words 1+1+1=3. 3 is not = 1

The alternative is 1=1=1=1;

"For in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9)

We can see that Jesus Christ is the personal and bodily manifestation of all the fulness of Deity.

Kay 17:
Jesus=Holy Spirit=the Father=Godhead, Thus Jesus = God,and Jesus = HolySpirit.

In other words 1x1x1=1

The Father x The Son x The Holy Spirit = God. The Father is distinct from the Son just as the Son is distinct from the Holy Spirit but they are One God.

Here is a scientist by the name Alistair McGrath, using the analogy of the nature of light in quatum physics to explain what looks like a contradiction in the Godhead and how it got solved.

"An example of this from the world of science concerns the nature of light. By the first decade of the twentieth century, it was clear that light behaved in a very strange way - sometimes it seemed to behave as if it was a wave, and sometimes as if it was a particle. It couldn't be both at once, and so the cry 'contradiction!' was raised. How could it be two totally different things? But eventually, through the development of the Quantum Theory, it was found that this contradiction expressed a fundamental difficulty in grasping what the nature of light really was. In other words, the contradiction did not arise on account of light, but on account of our difficulties in conceiving it."

McGrath went on to show that the nature of light was such that two contradictory models had to be used to account for its behaviour but with God we require three contradictory models.

"Most of us know what light is without needing to think about waves, particles or Quantum Theory. Light is what we need in order to see, to do our everyday business, to read and write. It is what comes out of the sun, and to a lesser extent from the moon. It is what we get when we switch on electric light bulbs or strip lighting. If we were physicsts, we might want to think about light in much more detail and go into the full complexities of it - and so we might start talking about waves, particles and Quantum Theory. But we don't need to do this in order to make use of light or to recognise it when we see it."

This is how three contradictory models on the Divine level make sense in the concept of the Godhead. And if we still can't fully comprehend it that does not negate the fact that it does make sense. When I switch on the computer and interact with you on nairaland I do not know how they work, but there is an explanation beyond the limits of my understanding and which does make sense.

@ola....is that not why mary is the mother of God and a mediator between God(Jesus) and man?

U'v been on this God head issue for too long.....

Is there no alternative word for God head

Find words that are similar to Godhead....

Let's say DIVINE....

Abi

Because this Godhead word has gotten u into mathematics....lol...

Ola what is deÍty??v

Angels too are deities....

Satan is a deity too....

Godhead shuldnt be a word that shuld get u all worked up....

If 1+1+1 equals 1..

Then it means mary gave birth to d holy spirit which is equal to Jesus which is equal to Yahweh.....

Mathematical expression:::

M gave birth to H.spirit*Jesus*Yahweh=Godhead...

Therefore Mary gave birth to all 3 of them in 1....abi
Meaning mary gave birth to d holy spÍrit


Madness aint it


Damn I'm tired Óf trinity..!!!!.

OLAADEGBU: Here is a scientist by the name Alistair McGrath, using the analogy of the nature of light in quatum physics to explain what looks like a contradiction in the Godhead and how it got solved.

"An example of this from the world of science concerns the nature of light. By the first decade of the twentieth century, it was clear that light behaved in a very strange way - sometimes it seemed to behave as if it was a wave, and sometimes as if it was a particle. It couldn't be both at once, and so the cry 'contradiction!' was raised. How could it be two totally different things? But eventually, through the development of the Quantum Theory, it was found that this contradiction expressed a fundamental difficulty in grasping what the nature of light really was. In other words, the contradiction did not arise on account of light, but on account of our difficulties in conceiving it."

McGrath went on to show that the nature of light was such that two contradictory models had to be used to account for its behaviour but with God we require three contradictory models.

"Most of us know what light is without needing to think about waves, particles or Quantum Theory. Light is what we need in order to see, to do our everyday business, to read and write. It is what comes out of the sun, and to a lesser extent from the moon. It is what we get when we switch on electric light bulbs or strip lighting. If we were physicsts, we might want to think about light in much more detail and go into the full complexities of it - and so we might start talking about waves, particles and Quantum Theory. But we don't need to do this in order to make use of light or to recognise it when we see it."

This is how three contradictory models on the Divine level make sense in the concept of the Godhead. And if we still can't fully comprehend it that does not negate the fact that it does make sense. When I switch on the computer and interact with you on nairaland I do not know how they work, but there is an explanation beyond the limits of my understanding and which does make sense.

If JesusxHSxFather=Godhead, then Jesus = HS!

@kay....
Trinitarians find it hard to answer why Jesus isn't d holy spirit...

I just told ola that in effect mary gave birth to the holy spirit....

Kay 17:

If JesusxHSxFather=Godhead,then Jesus = HS!

The Father = God; Jesus Christ = God;The Holy Spirit = God. Refer tothe diagram abovefor better understanding. Just asthe Father and Jesus Christ are One so our Lord Jesus Christ andthe Holy Spirit are One,therefore,the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One.The Father xThe Son xThe Holy Spirit = God. Simples

ijawkid: @kay.... Trinitarians find it hard to answer why Jesus isn't d holy spirit... I just told ola that in effect mary gave birth tothe holy spirit....

That is where you miss it.The RCC misled a lot of people including Mohammad thatthe Godhead consists ofthe Father, Mary andthe Holy Ghost, and this has become a stumbling blockfor you guys. Mary was notthe mother of God neither was shethe wife ofthe Holy Ghost as you may have been led to believe. You need to studythebiblical basis for the doctrine ofthe trinityfor you to be made free.

TheBiblical Basis for the Godhead

The deity of Christ is intimately connected to the doctrine of the Godhead. This doctrine affirms that there is only one God and that in the unity of the one Godhead there are three co-equal and co-eternal Persons – the Father,the Son and the Holy Spirit.

There is One God:

In the course of God’s self-disclosure to humankind, He revealed His nature in progressive stages. First, God revealed that He is the only true God. This was a necessary starting point for God’s self-revelation. Throughout history, Israel was surrounded by pagan nations deeply engulfed in the belief that there are many gods. Through the prophets, God communicated to Israel that there is only one true God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 32:39; Psalm 86:10; Isa.44:6). Even at this early juncture, however, we find preliminary indications of the godhead in (Genesis 1:26; 11:7; Isa.6:8; 48:16). God’s oneness is also emphasised in the New Testament (Rom.3:29-30; 1Cor.8:4; Gal.3:20; 1Thess.1:9; 1Tim.1:17; 2:5; James 2:19; Jude 25)

The Father Is God:

As history unfolded, God progressively revealed more about Himself. It eventually became clear that while there is only one God, there are three distinct persons within the one godhead, each individually recognised as God (Matt.28:19). The Father, for example, is explicitly called God (John 6:27; Rom 1:7; Gal. 1:1; 1Peter 1:2). He is also portrayed as having all the attributes of deity – such as being everywhere-present (Matt.19:26), all-knowing (Rom.11:33), all-powerful (1 Peter 1:5), holy (Revelation 15:4), and eternal (Psalm 90:2).

The Son Is God:

Jesus is also explicitly called "God" in scripture (Titus 2:13; Heb.1:8.) And He, too, has all the attributes of deity – including being everywhere-present (Matt. 28:20), all-knowing (Matt.9:4), all-powerful (Matt.28:18.), holy (Acts 3:14), and eternal (Rev.1:8, 17).

The Holy Spirit Is God:

The Holy Spirit is also recognised as God (Acts 5:3-4). He too possessesthe attributes of deity, including being everywhere-present (Psalm 139:7-9), all-knowing (1 Cor.2:10-11), all-powerful (Rom.15:19), holy (John 16:17-14), and eternal (Heb. 9:14).

OLAADEGBU:
The Father = God; Jesus Christ = God;The Holy Spirit = God. Refer tothe diagram abovefor better understanding. Just asthe Father and Jesus Christ are One so our Lord Jesus Christ andthe Holy Spirit are One,therefore,the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One.The Father xThe Son xThe Holy Spirit = God. Simples

Jesus = God

The Father = God,

Then Jesus = The Father.

Kay 17:

Jesus = God

The Father = God,

Then Jesus = The Father.

Jesus is equal to the Father but is distinct from the Father. "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Philipians 2:6-7).

@joe...

How is Jesus equal to the Father...

I thought Jesus was lesser than his Father??

Is that not what Jesus said with his own mouth!

Who should I believe

You or Jesus?

Joe stop this shit!!!!


Jesus said the Father is greater than I am....
Are trinitarians blind to have over looked those words of Jesus himself or has presumpteousness set in

Jesus is not equal to his Father and never will be for all eternity..

ijawkid: @joe...

How is Jesus equal to the Father...

I thought Jesus was lesser than his Father??

Is that not what Jesus said with his own mouth!

Who should I believe

You or Jesus?

Joe stop this shit!!!!

Jesus said the Father is greater than I am....

Are trinitarians blind to have over looked those words of Jesus himself or has presumpteousness set in
Jesus is not equal to his Father and never will be for all eternity..

I will not deny you of your dogma if that pleases you but if the truth needs to be told let us examine the Scriptures with an open mind.

You argue that since Jesus said the Father is "greater" than Him (John 14:28), this must mean Jesus is a lesser God. Biblically, however, Jesus is equal with the Father in His divine nature (John 10:30). He was positionally lower than the Father from the standpoint of His becoming a servant by taking on human likeness (Philipians 2:6-11). Positionally, then, the Father was "greater" than Jesus. Simples

Please ola read 1corinthians 15:26-28....


Is Jesus still and will cÓntinue to be lesser than his Father


Please ola this trinity dogma is a straight forward heresy,...

How can u tell me that its becos Jesus came to earth that's why he chose to be lesser

Is that a joke??

Do u tink Jesus forgot where he came from and where he'll be returnin to

This is d same Jesus who still waited for Yahweh to uplift him to d position he is

Is it not d same Jesus who received power and authority from his Father?

Is there anytin Jesus has that wÀs not given to him by his superior yahweh?

Please read that 1 corinthians and tell me how u can run away from d fact that Jesus is still a subordinate and will always be subordinate to Yahweh....

Why shuld a son be equal to a Father in d 1st place??

Are u equal to ur father??

If Yahweh anÐ Jesus were brothers I would have perfectly embraced d trinity dogma....

Why is 1 always d sender and the other one the sendeee

Why is Yahweh always d 1 receiving and exacting exclusive devotion

Why is Yahweh always d over all like 1 corinthians tells you and Jesus always d middle man, d mediator and high priest??

Can a high priest be equal to the person he's working for

Éh ola please stop all this theoligical shit and face reality..

Why would Jesus allow himself to be sent bÝ his equal

Is it that yahweh wasn't humble enough to allow his son send him on errands

Why is Jesus always the omodo to run Yahwehs errands

Eh ola why


Trinity teaching is 1 pagan dogma that has sent many into atheism.....

Atheists are struglin hard to believe there is a God and here they still have to phatom a 3 in 1 God...

Madness!!!

let me asks some questions..1) why is Jesus always assuming the lesser role? Has Yaweh ever taken a lesser role? 2) was Yaweh in Mary's womb for 9 months? 3) did Yaweh die for 3days? 4) and if he did, who ressurected him? Answer these ones, more coming.

Three-in-Oneness inthe Godhead:

Scriptures indicate there is three-in-oneness in the godhead.

In Matthew 28:19,the resurrected Jesus instructed the disciples,

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit[/b] (Matthew 28:19).

The word name is singular in Greek,thereby indicating God’s oneness. However,the definite articles in front of Father, Son and Holy Spirit (in the original Greek) indicate they are distinct personalities, even though there is just one God. These distinct personalities relate to each other. The Father and the Son, for example, know each other (Matthew 11:27), love each other (John 3:35), speak to each other (John 11:41-42). The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus at His baptism (Luke 3:22), He is called another comforter or helper (John 14:16), He was sent by the Father and Jesus (John 15:26), and He seeks to glorify Jesus (John 16:13-14).

A Simple Analogy

A helpful analogy of the Godhead is that God is like a triangle that is one figure yet has three different sides (or corners) at the same time. So there is a simultaneous threeness and oneness. Of course, no analogy is perfect since in every analogy there is a similarity and a difference. The difference here is that "sides" or "corners" are not persons. Nonetheless, the triangle does illustrate how there can be threeness and oneness at the same time. While there is one God, there are three persons within the One God. QED .

OLAADEGBU: Three-in-Oneness inthe Godhead:

Scriptures indicate there is three-in-oneness in the godhead.

In Matthew 28:19,the resurrected Jesus instructed the disciples,

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit[/b] (Matthew 28:19).

The word name is singular in Greek,thereby indicating God’s oneness. However,the definite articles in front of Father, Son and Holy Spirit (in the original Greek) indicate they are distinct personalities, even though there is just one God. These distinct personalities relate to each other. The Father and the Son, for example, know each other (Matthew 11:27), love each other (John 3:35), speak to each other (John 11:41-42). The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus at His baptism (Luke 3:22), He is called another comforter or helper (John 14:16), He was sent by the Father and Jesus (John 15:26), and He seeks to glorify Jesus (John 16:13-14).

A Simple Analogy

A helpful analogy of the Godhead is that God is like a triangle that is one figure yet has three different sides (or corners) at the same time. So there is a simultaneous threeness and oneness. Of course, no analogy is perfect since in every analogy there is a similarity and a difference. The difference here is that "sides" or "corners" are not persons. Nonetheless, the triangle does illustrate how there can be threeness and oneness at the same time. While there is one God, there are three persons within the One God. QED .

Ola, I think you failed in expressing the Trinity mathematically. You are not accepting the necessary implication.

Confusion confusion Çonfusion!!!!!!!!

Threeness and oneness all @ d same time...

Is that not madness!!!

Ola did u read that 1corinthians I quoted

U haven't actually made any comment as respects that...


I want u to explain that scripture and connect it to d false trinity dogma that purports that Jesus is all and all and that he is equal to his Father...


Some1 is still greater than Jesus as we speak and Jesus is subordinate to that being..

Ur equilateral triangle thing just cannot fix into d bible..

Mayb a triangle with un-equal sides should have being used to demonstrate it,because Jesus and his Father are not d same persons and they are not equal...

And then later u tell me mary is not d mother of God.....

U deny that fact,yet u want to hold on to trinity....

U better cling to trinity proper just like d founders of it...

Kay 17:

Ola, I think you failed in expressing the Trinity mathematically. You are not accepting the necessary implication.

The implication is that Jesus is equal to the Father, is that not so?

Kay 17:

Jesus = God

The Father = God,

Then Jesus = The Father.

10!
Excellent!
But he knows no transitive property ....

ijawkid:

Confusion confusion Çonfusion!!!!!!!!

Threeness and oneness all @ d same time...

Is that not madness!!!

The Pharisees thought that Jesus was beside Himself when He declared that He is One with the Father, (read John 10:20, 30).

ijawkid:
Ola did u read that 1corinthians I quoted

U haven't actually made any comment as respects that...

I want u to explain that scripture and connect it to d false trinity dogma that purports that Jesus is all and all and that he is equal to his Father...

Some1 is still greater than Jesus as we speak and Jesus is subordinate to that being..

1 Cor. 15:26-28 simply concludes that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit will reign together just as they reigned before sin entered into the equation which made the godhead take up different parts (The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost) for the redemption of all things created.

ijawkid:

Ur equilateral triangle thing just cannot fix into d bible..

Mayb a triangle with un-equal sides should have being used to demonstrate it,because Jesus and his Father are not d same persons and they are not equal...

Why can't you fathom how an equilateral triangle can have 3 sides and yet remain one figure? Could it be because your mind is already made up and that you don't want to be confused with the facts?

ijawkid:
And then later u tell me mary is not d mother of God.....

U deny that fact,yet u want to hold on to trinity....

U better cling to trinity proper just like d founders of it...

Are you insisting that your Mary is part of the godhead?

@Ola

Its very simple here. IF Jesus, Holy Spirit and the father ALL make God personality, then the substraction of any of them reduces God to nil.

But if Jesus is God, then it fails to conform with the statement above or trinity, because the three make up God, not one.

On the other hand, if you insist Jesus is God and the Father is God, then its very clear that Jesus is the Father! Its the common relationship.

The conclusion from the above statement is that how is a Father now the Son?

We don't argue the word of God. God is ONE and Can be one million also if He chooses to be. God is not man.

Thank you at OP for this great thread. God bless you.

Ola u still dnt get it...

Jesus was given rulership...

He then after serving Yahweh and fulfilling his God given assignment hands it over to his superior who is Yahweh.....

Don't u get it


Jesus is greater than us bt less than Yahweh...

Jesus is Yahwehs servant...

I bet u wanna argue that too...

I wonder d day a servant becomes equal to his master...

Are u equal to Jesus?


That scripture boldly tells us that when d bible says all power was given to Jesus,it is with d exception of the 1 who gave him d power....
Who gave Jesus power??Yahweh ofcus...


Why??

Because Yahweh and Jesus no be mate...


And because Yahweh is both Jesus's God and Father....got it


Oboy ola trinity dogma is pagan and heretic...