Kay 17: @Ola

Its very simple here. IF Jesus, Holy Spirit and the father ALL make God personality, then the substraction of any of them reduces God to nil.

But if Jesus is God, then it fails to conform with the statement above or trinity, because the three make up God, not one.

On the other hand, if you insist Jesus is God and the Father is God, then its very clear that Jesus is the Father! Its the common relationship.

The conclusion from the above statement is that how is a Father now the Son?

They are united and cannot be subtracted, they have distinct personalities but remain One God. Read the article on the biblical basis of the godhead above for a better understanding of how they all have the attributes of God. C.S. Lewis gave a good analogy of the trinity.

ijawkid: Ola u still dnt get it...

Jesus was given rulership...

He then after serving Yahweh and fulfilling his God given assignment hands it over to his superior who is Yahweh.....

Don't u get it


Jesus is greater than us bt less than Yahweh...

Jesus is Yahwehs servant...

I bet u wanna argue that too...

I wonder d day a servant becomes equal to his master...

Are u equal to Jesus?


That scripture boldly tells us that when d bible says all power was given to Jesus,it is with d exception of the 1 who gave him d power....
Who gave Jesus power??Yahweh ofcus...


Why??

Because Yahweh and Jesus no be mate...


And because Yahweh is both Jesus's God and Father....got it


Oboy ola trinity dogma is pagan and heretic...

Instead of going on this vicious cycle why don't you answer my question? I ask again, was Jesus Christ created, did He have a beginning?

flourishG:

We don't argue the word of God. God is ONE and Can be one million also if He chooses to be. God is not man.

Thank you at OP for this great thread. God bless you.

God has used His creation to reflect on His divine nature and this is what I'm trying to make them see as there are many analogies that can be made. Thanks for reading and remain blessed.

OLAADEGBU:
Instead of going on this vicious cycle why don't you answer my question? I ask again, was Jesus Christ created, did He have a beginning?

Yes he had a beginning...

He was created....

But 1st thing/person to be beggoten or created.....

ijawkid:


Yes he had a beginning...

He was created....

But 1st thing/person to be beggoten or created.....

When was Jesus created?

The Firstborn Of Every Creature

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature" (Colossians 1:15)

A widespread cultic heresy based on this verse claims that Jesus Christ was not eternal, but merely the first being created—perhaps an angel—before becoming a man. Note, however, that the verse does not say He was the "first created of every creature," but the "first born of every creature," and there is a big difference. In fact, the very next verse says that "by Him were all things created" (v.16). He was never created, for He Himself is the Creator. "All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made" (John 1:3).

He is "born" of God, not "made," the "only begotten Son" of God (John 3:16). "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him" (John 1:18.) The eternal Father is omnipresent, and therefore invisible, inaudible, inaccessible to the physical senses. The eternally existing Son is the "image" of the invisible Father, the One who declares, reveals, embodies His essence. Although He is always "in the bosom of the Father," yet He is eternally also "the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person" (Hebrews 1:3). He is the eternal, living Word, which was "in the beginning with God" (John 1:2), and which "was God" (John 1:1).

Thus the phrase, "firstborn of every creature" in our text, can be translated literally as "begotten before all creation." The eternal inter-relationship of the Persons of the Godhead is beyond human comprehension in its fullness, and the terms, "Son" and "begotten" are the best human language can do to describe it. Jesus Christ, the Word made flesh, is the only begotten, eternally generated, Son of the Father, forever shining forth as the image of the otherwise invisible God. HMM

For more . . . .

OLAADEGBU:

They are united and cannot be subtracted, they have distinct personalities but remain One God. Read the article on the biblical basis of the godhead above for a better understanding of how they all have the attributes of God. C.S. Lewis gave a good analogy of the trinity.

I understand what you are trying to say, however IF divinity is bound by reason also, you'd be compelled to reject contradictions. Its either one in the union is God or the union itself is God. It can't be both.

Kay 17:

I understand what you are trying to say, however IF divinity is bound by reason also, you'd be compelled to reject contradictions. Its either one in the union is God or the union itself is God. It can't be both.

God is not totally comprehensible otherwise He will cease to be God. Let's use a helpful analogy by C.S. Lewis, a former atheist who had come to the saving knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, in his book called Mere Christianity.

"You know that in space you can move in three ways – to left or right, backwards or forwards, up or down. Every direction is either one of these three or a compromise between them. They are called the three Dimensions. Now notice this. If you are using only one dimension, you could draw only a straight line. If you are using two, you could draw a figure: say, a square. And a square is made up of four straight lines. Now a step further. If you have three dimensions, you can then build what we call a solid body: say, a cube – a thing like a dice or a lump of sugar. And a cube is made up of six squares.

Do you see the point? A world of one dimension would be a straight line. In a two dimensional world, you still get straight lines, but many lines make one figure. In a three dimensional world, you still get figures but many figures make one solid body. In other words, as you advance to more real and more complicated levels, you do not leave behind you the things you found on the simpler levels: you still have them, but combined in new ways - in ways you could not imagine if you knew only the simpler levels.

Now the Christian account of God involves just the same principle. The human level is a simple level and rather empty level. On the human level one person is one being, and any two persons are two separate beings – just as, in two dimensions (say on a flat sheet of paper) one square is one figure, and any two squares are two separate figures. On the Divine level you still find personalities; but up there you find them combined in new ways which we, who do not live on that level, cannot imagine. In God’s dimension, so to speak, you find a being who is three Persons while remaining one Being, just as a cube is six squares while remaining one cube. Of course we cannot fully conceive a Being like that: just as, if we were so made that we perceived only two dimensions in space we could never properly imagine a cube. But we can get a sort of faint notion of it. And when we do, we are then, for the first time in our lives, getting some positive idea, however faint, of something super-personal – something more than a person. It is something we could never have guessed, and yet, once we have been told, one almost feels one ought to have been able to guess it because it fits in so well with all the things we know already.

You may ask, ‘If we cannot imagine a three-personal Being, what is the good of talking about Him. The thing that matters is being actually drawn into that three-personal life, and that may begin any time – tonight, if you like."

In seeking to understand the Trinity we need to recognise three limiting factors.

First, the human language is limited such that it is incapable of describing the aroma of coffee.

Secondly, the limitation of our own understanding and intellects. John Eddison in his book talking to children said 'Our little intellectual systems find themselves groaning under the strain of trying to accommodate God'. Therefore, in an attempt to describe the Trinity we have to resort to the use of paradox or analogy. A paradox as defined by the Concise Oxford Dictionary is a seemingly absurd though perhaps actually well founded statement.

And thirdly, we have to recognise the limits of our finite world and our finite minds.

How is it possible to know what's partially incomprehensible?? Isn't that a conclusion reserved for an omniscient being?? Have you been to the boundaries of human knowledge and understanding??

At least we agree at the point that mysteries make Gods though.

Kay 17:

How is it possible to know what's partially incomprehensible?? Isn't that a conclusion reserved for an omniscient being?? Have you been to the boundaries of human knowledge and understanding?? At least we agree at the point that mysteries make Gods though.

And that is why we need to disect the power Word of God inJohn 1:1 and come to its logical conclusion.

Let us consider this John 1:1

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

The simple logic of this verse can be summed up as thus:

THE WORD = GOD

In John 1:14 it states:

"The Word became flesh, and dwelt amongus."

From these verses we can deduce the following:

JESUS = THE WORD

Simple logic declares that

if A=B

and B=C

then A=C.

Therefore, since

JESUS = THE WORD and

THE WORD = GOD,

then JESUS = GOD QED.

OLAADEGBU:

And that is why we need to disect the power Word of God inJohn 1:1 and come to its logical conclusion.

Let us consider this John 1:1

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

The simple logic of this verse can be summed up as thus:

THE WORD = GOD

In John 1:14 it states:

"The Word became flesh, and dwelt amongus."

From these verses we can deduce the following:

JESUS = THE WORD

Simple logic declares that

if A=B

and B=C

then A=C.

Therefore, since

JESUS = THE WORD and

THE WORD = GOD,

then JESUS = GOD QED.

@Ola

You are not helping matters, you are not answering my questions and you do not seem to have any confidence in logic as its incapable of grasping God.

Kay 17:

@Ola

You are not helping matters, you are not answering my questions and you do not seem to have any confidence in logic as its incapable of grasping God.

I believe that I have answered your questions and more except you are looking for something else. That the Father = the Son = the Holy Spirit = God. What else are you looking for? Logic is one of the best evidences that demands that there is God except that you insist on being illogical.

Spirit, Soul, Body

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:23)

The threefold nature of mankind reflects, to a degree, the triune nature of the Godhead. Just as each member of the triune God is complete and wholly God, yet distinct, so each aspect of mankind is also the whole, yet distinct. The body of man comprises the entire man, yet he also possesses certain soulish emotions, desires, and propensities; and finally, the total man is endowed with a spiritual, eternal nature, somehow reflecting the image of God.

These three reflect the three great creative acts of God during creation week, identified by the three usages of the Hebrew word bara, or create. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Genesis 1:1); i.e., physical material. Later, certain of this physical material was granted consciousness (1:21), which man shares with animals. On the sixth day, man was created as a spiritual being "in the image of God" (1:27), setting him qualitatively distinct from the animals, though he shares body and consciousness with the animals.

As in our text, when the "God of peace" sets about the task of sanctifying representatives of sinful, fallen mankind, restoring such ones to a measure of Christ-likeness, He does so in the order mentioned, beginning with a spiritual awakening. Then, through the transformed spirit, the soul is reached, and finally the body, with its appetites and lusts.

The wisdom of man says just the opposite, claiming the inner man can be improved by changing outside influences, a mentality all too often reflected even in evangelistic efforts. God's way is to start with the inner man--the root of the problem--and then affect the outer man. JDM

For more . . . .