@ricadelide,

You have provided an excellent write-up which baiscally defines some issues here. While I agree with the generral idea of the write-up, I do not find myself arriving at the same conclusion with you.

While we can all agree that the general though of a rich person is that he has great posessions, we miss the point of the whole thing if we think that is the end.

There is one thing the great possessions does for the rich man. It provides him with the means to meet not only His needs, but his wants. So in essence, being rich is not just possessing material possessions, but the in possessing the means to meet your needs and wants whenever and however you so desire. I dare say that Jesus met ALL his needs and wants whenever and however way he wanted it to happen, and so I still maintain that Jesus was rich!

Tayo-D. Relax! Do you know that you are redefining the word 'rich'? Good contribution from rica indeed and I will like to corroborate his submission by just taking a look at the dictionary meaning of the word RICH

Adjective: rich (richer,richest) rich
Possessing material wealth
"her father is extremely rich"; "many fond hopes are pinned on rich uncles"

Having an abundant supply of desirable qualities or substances (especially natural resources)
"blessed with a land rich in minerals"; "rich in ideas"; "rich with cultural interest"
http://www.wordwebonline.com/search.pl?w=RICH

In no place was it related to ability to meet needs or wants. Thats perhaps a paraphrase and not the general meaning of the word. By inference, it can be concluded that Jesus was not rich. If someone who has goodwill anywhere he goes and never starves, not because he has money to feed himslef or buy his clothes but his goodwill brings enables people to promptly come to his aid, will you say such an one is rich?

I do not think so.

HERE WE GO AGAIN

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(dis will neva stop)>>>>>>>>>
NEVA!!!

Very good post Ricadelide (penultimate post of page 1). In particular the definition of terms re "rich". Obviously, Jesus was not rich in that material context as is evidently clear from a proper reading of the Bible. Unfortunately, prosperity preachers have twisted the Bible so badly and worse still many well intentioned Christians buy into the false teachings.

Arguments like: the donkey that Jesus rode was "expensive" being equivalent to expensive cars today; He wore a unique robe being equal to designer clothes today; the gifts He was given by the Magi are worth thousands/millions in today's money etc etc are all ruses by prosperity preachers ultimately to deceive their followers while fleecing them through the false so-called "prosperity gospel".

If a Christian is rich, that is fine and good, so was Philemon; if a Christian is poor, he has hope in Christ greater than any earthly riches - Onesimus was a Christian yet a slave of the also Christian Philemon.

2 Cor. 8:9: For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich." This is spiritual riches in Christ not a promise of earthly gain. Why is it spiritual riches? Because Christ actually said the poor in spirit are blessed not cursed. Not because He made them wealthy but because they inherited the kingdom of God. Jesus did not change ones status in life but He certainly changed their hearts attitude. Just take a look at the disciples life after they meet Jesus.


Rom. 2:4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering.” Rom. 9:23 “ that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory.” Eph. 1:7 “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.” Eph. 3:8 “To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ”

Matt 19:23-25: Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?"

They were not astonished because they were rich and wondered about themselves, Jesus is talking about someone other than them. However in Luke 18:28-30 Peter being convicted of this states, "See, we have left all and followed You." Peter's perception was that they had no riches in money or property since he says they left it all behind. So why do some say they were wealthy?


Paul makes it clear 2 Cor. 6:9-10: "as unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and behold we live; as chastened, and yet not killed; as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things."

How were they made rich? Col. 1:27 “To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.”
The apostle Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 4:11-12: "To the present hour we both hunger and thirst, and we are poorly clothed, and beaten, and homeless. And we labor, working with our own hands. "

Acts 3:6: Then Peter said, "Silver and gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk." This does not mean they had none on them at the time; they had NO money. These are words out of their own mouths recorded by the Holy Spirit through their hands as Scripture.

Acts 20:33-35: "I have coveted no one's silver or gold or apparel. "Yes, you yourselves know that these hands have provided for my necessities, and for those who were with me. "I have shown you in every way, by laboring like this, that you must support the weak.(This is what jesus wanted the rich man to do) And remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'" Paul says it was good to work with his hands, he showed by example to help those less fortunate by hard work. There is nothing wrong when a man is rich and decides to follow God fully he sells his belongings and decides to enter the work of God.

I always say this that The work of God is Full time there is nothing like part time. If you have wealth( what turns out money) and you keep storing it up for yourself that is what Jesus was talking against. Dont let your trust be solely of your wealth.


1 Tim 6:3-12: " If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness[b] is a means of gain[/b]. From such withdraw yourself. Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses."

Those who want to become rich now suffer a loss in faith, as Jesus said you can’t serve two masters. There’s nothing wrong with having money[b] but there is a lot wrong with money having you[/b]. Good wants people who can have wealth only for him and him alone. How can you tell the difference?

Just listen to the message and find out where they fit it in.look at what they teach, Godliness means more blessing = money.
Kenneth Copeland writes,

"Do you want a hundredfold return on your money? Give and let God multiply it back to you. He urges his supporters, "Invest heavily in God; the returns are staggering, , "Every man who invests in the Gospel has a right to expect the staggering return of one hundredfold." (Laws of Prosperity , pg.67) This may be true but it may not be in your bank account.

This is why Creflo Dollar and Kenneth Copeland can lead the congregation in a affirmation "Money come unto me NOW" three times. (Dec.4, 1999 Voice of victory telecast).Creflo Dollar says “Yo’all better obey the prophet and reap the prophets reward, my prophet is rich and I’m gonna be rich too” “I call in the money, I found me a preacher, this is my first million and to it, do you all hear what I’m saying,…I’m going to have what I say, what I say, what I say, what I say, what I say”(and the people cheered madly).

Peter writes ”They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children”(2 Peter 2:14)
"Poverty is from the devil and that God wants all Christians prosperous." (Benny Hinn, TBN, 11/6/90).
Nowhere does the Bible say this. James was the head of the Jerusalem Church that was the poorest of all churches. As Jews converted they lost their family friend's and job. the people in the church gave the best seats to those who were rich hoping for some response in help. This is why he writes in James 5:1-5:

"Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days. Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter. "

This is a sobering rebuke for those who will be accountable for using their money to promote themselves and neglect the needs of the people.Yes, there will be rich church people in the last days that will be judged for their covetedness.

Phil. 3:7-1:1" But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead." Paul a Pharisee was quite rich yet he gave it up for a life to follow Christ.

James 2:5 "Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?" The very opposite is being said, "has not God chosen the rich because they have faith for their wants!"
One of the qualifications for a bishop an Elder is in 1 Tim.3
1 Tim 3:2-3: "A bishop then must be blameless, …temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous."

We see that the Church is now the place where people say they go to "feel good" and even some churches say please if your 'SITUATION' does not get better then you can leave this Church go to another!!!!! The Church is not for Hope or Knowledge. THE CHURCH IS THE ARMY OF THE CALLED OUT RIGHTEOUS MEN THAT ARE READY TO DIE FOR HIM WHETHER THEY GET REWARD OR NOT.

what's exactly your definition of someone who is rich: if it means " lacking nothing" then Jesus was very rich. it doesn't matter whether He got them thru supports or by favour, When you lack nothing u are definitely rich

what's exactly your definition of someone who is rich: if it means " lacking nothing" then Jesus was very rich. it doesn't matter whether He got them thru supports or by favour, When you lack nothing u are definitely rich

@gosky

It makes it interesting. Lack is relevant to the individual. but need and want are very different. When you dont have means to cater for your need immediately then you are poor.

When you are so much bogged down about your need then you become Want monger and there is the DANGER!
We need to be wise but not to fall prey to the roaming lion.

A rich man money is his life, religion and thoughts. A man that is godly seeks the Good of people with his money when he is blessed.

There are many people that are rich in Nigeria but there are multitudes in stark poverty but the rich are not concerned about the poor they say "I worked to get the money" "you are poor because you are lazy" or "You dont know the principle of how to make money"

But look at some of them never deserved the money they have now but for the mercy of God. Some became rich through wicked and yet still God showed mercy. Some stole to become rich and they boast. Some inherited the riches from their parents with carrying a stone they became rich yet they have no mercy in their eyes. There is wickedness in the heart of the pastors and preachers The "Gospel of prosperity" is a Wicked one. The people of God are now out giving each other so that they get more from "god" They pour the oil and the put the eggs of the idol worshipers on God and leave out the poor so that they will get more power and money. Is this not the Moloch god they worship?

This topic I must say is an interesting topic. It looked controversial but in my view not in anyway. I will want us to redirect our focus on wealth. This is of a fact I want us to note: "those who are financially free are truly rich people". If you will have a deep thought on this, you will agree with me tha Jesus Christ and his disciples were not only rich but they are Super rich.

The fact that He was born in a menger is not eneough reason to conclude He is rich or Poor. Giving birth is an emmergency situation, it could happen to Bill Gate's wife.

Joseph Profession will also not be a good argument for or against Jesus been rich or poor. If bible is talking about Christ been poor that we might be rich; it means Christ forsook all because of us.

To conclude, Poverty is a state of Lack and I have never read in the Bible where Jesus and his Disciple have gone to beg for bread.