https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5dSyT50Cs8

The religionists have the God of the gaps to explain what they cannot explain properly, while the atheists have the Imagination of the gaps to do the same.

lol @ imagination of the gaps..
I love what he says at the end.. if believing that GOD is responsible for the mystery kills your curiosity, then you are USELESS..

God of the gaps is an outdated cliche! We can provide a rational basis for the existence of a creator...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri3KOeDPAQ0

tbaba1234: God of the gaps is an outdated cliche! We can provide a rational basis for the existence of a creator...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri3KOeDPAQ0

There is a reason why Tbaba did not try to debunk the "god of the gaps". The reason is that he cant and that is why he refers to the fraud that is Hamza tzortis. Hamza himself did not debunk the "god of the gaps" argument. He only made the crowd laugh and spilled some good quotes from the Koran.

We know from big bang that there was a cause to the universe. What we dont know is exactly what could have caused the cause. Hamza says that it is God that caysed the cause from rational deductions from descriptions in the Koran. What Hamza does brilliantly is to spin the lie that the Koran talks about the big bang while making the crowd laugh. I can re-interpret quotes from the bible to say that God caused the universe to exist as well. Also, the Koran mentions God in many instances that are contradictory to scientific theories. The Koran claims that man was created in paradise/janna (Koran 2;36).

The "god of the gap" argument is not a cliche.


1) People claimed that disease were from or cured by god. God of the gaps; until germ theory proved them wrong!

2) People claimed that rain came from the heavens or were showers from God. God of the gaps; until evaporation and water cycle proved them wrong.

3) Hamza claims that God caused the big bang without any physical evidence. How will this turn out any different from the outcomes of number one and two?

Seriously dude, you want to start a debate?..... We can conclude from the very nature of God in the Quran and what we know about the Universe... We are not saying because we do not know therefore God exists.. That is not an Islamic position... The Quran presents the position that you can come to conclusion of God by reflecting on the reality around you... It asks the profound question:

“Or were they created by nothing? Or were they the creators (of themselves)? Or did they create heavens and earth? Rather, they are not certain.” Quran 52:35-36

So we know the universe has a cause: If we examine the characteristics of that cause with the Quranic description for God. It matches.... Our conclusions are from those rational deductions not "God of the gaps".

Your points are hollow as usual:

1. Belief in God does not negate seeking cures for diseases.... saying God heals you is just acknowledging there is a higher rational being who has set the laws of the universe in motion and controls what happens.

2. This is what the Quran says about rain;

Surah 30 Ar-Room Ayat 48: “It is Allah Who sends the Winds, and they raise the Clouds: then does He spread them in the sky as He wills, and break them into fragments, until thou seest rain-drops issue from the midst thereof: then when He has made them reach such of his servants as He wills behold, they do rejoice! “

Surah 7 Al-Araf Ayat 57: “It is He Who sendeth the winds like heralds of glad tidings, going before His mercy: when they have carried the heavy-laden clouds, We drive them to a land that is dead, make rain to descend thereon, and produce every kind of harvest therewith: thus shall We raise up the dead: perchance ye may remember.”

Does that sound to you like rain coming from heaven, Nothing stated here disagrees with what we already know. The only difference is the the Quran says God makes it happen.... Since God sets the laws of the universe, everything that happens is according to his laws and commands....

3. Do you know how small the earth is compared to the rest of the universe? you are looking for physical evidence. that is just irrational...

The Quran itself is evidence for existence of a creator.

musKeeto: lol @ imagination of the gaps.......

Of course!! What do you think THE GREAT LEPRECHAUN is?

There is nothing quite like creating gaps where there are none, then filling your made up gaps with the most preposterous, inane, asinine, pseudoscientific a$$backward load of sh-t you can imagine. If you do that, Jenwitemi would be the Peter to your Jesus.

tbaba1234: Seriously dude, you want to start a debate?..... We can conclude from the very nature of God in the Quran and what we know about the Universe... We are not saying because we do not know therefore God exists.. That is not an Islamic position... The Quran presents the position that you can come to conclusion of God by reflecting on the reality around you... It asks the profound question:

“Or were they created by nothing? Or were they the creators (of themselves)? Or did they create heavens and earth? Rather, they are not certain.” Quran 52:35-36

So we know the universe has a cause: If we examine the characteristics of that cause with the Quranic description for God. It matches.... Our conclusions are from those rational deductions not "God of the gaps".

Your points are hollow as usual:

1. Belief in God does not negate seeking cures for diseases.... saying God heals you is just acknowledging there is a higher rational being who has set the laws of the universe in motion and controls what happens.

2. This is what the Quran says about rain;

Surah 30 Ar-Room Ayat 48: “It is Allah Who sends the Winds, and they raise the Clouds: then does He spread them in the sky as He wills, and break them into fragments, until thou seest rain-drops issue from the midst thereof: then when He has made them reach such of his servants as He wills behold, they do rejoice! “

Surah 7 Al-Araf Ayat 57: “It is He Who sendeth the winds like heralds of glad tidings, going before His mercy: when they have carried the heavy-laden clouds, We drive them to a land that is dead, make rain to descend thereon, and produce every kind of harvest therewith: thus shall We raise up the dead: perchance ye may remember.”

Does that sound to you like rain coming from heaven, Nothing stated here disagrees with what we already know. The only difference is the the Quran says God makes it happen.... Since God sets the laws of the universe, everything that happens is according to his laws and commands....

3. Do you know how small the earth is compared to the rest of the universe? you are looking for physical evidence. that is just irrational...

The Quran itself is evidence for existence of a creator.

Tbaba, you already know the result of this debate. I will destroy you as usual. It actually pains me to do this every time because you are a respectful guy.


1) The Koran has to be interpreted in such a way to relate Allah to the big bang. Before science, this was not the interpretation. Stop copying Hamza in remixing the Koran.I too can put forward quotes that make it seem that God is in support of the big bang

2) Why are you ignoring the fact that the Koran says that man was not created on earth but in paradise? That alone destroys any credibility the Koran has.

3) The big bang is a result of so many calculations and sceintific data. How do we get from there to go backwards to the unscientific Koran? We know that there is a cause to the universe but how does the cause become allah? The Koran calls him the creator and the initiator. The bible calss God the creator and the beginning. Still these two books are not scientific and neither accurate.

4) The Koran is not divine. God is infinite. The koran is a finie book.

5) The Koran does not condemn slavery. There is no where that the Koran says that slavery is bad. nstead, it is regulated. You will claim freeing of slaves but, it is not cumpulsory or a sin to keep a non muslim slave for life.

logicboy:

Tbaba, you already know the result of this debate. I will destroy you as usual. It actually pains me to do this every time because you are a respectful guy.


1) The Koran has to be interpreted in such a way to relate Allah to the big bang. Before science, this was not the interpretation. Stop copying Hamza in remixing the Koran.I too can put forward quotes that make it seem that God is in support of the big bang

2) Why are you ignoring the fact that the Koran says that man was not created on earth but in paradise? That alone destroys any credibility the Koran has.

3) The big bang is a result of so many calculations and sceintific data. How do we get from there to go backwards to the unscientific Koran? We know that there is a cause to the universe but how does the cause become allah? The Koran calls him the creator and the initiator. The bible calss God the creator and the beginning. Still these two books are not scientific and neither accurate.

4) The Koran is not divine. God is infinite. The koran is a finie book.

5) The Koran does not condemn slavery. There is no where that the Koran says that slavery is bad. nstead, it is regulated. You will claim freeing of slaves but, it is not cumpulsory or a sin to keep a non muslim slave for life.

First of all, it is called Quran;
Secondly, you have never destroyed anyone on nairaland.. stop repeating that jargon... it is so childish...

1. The Quran talks of the heavens and the earth coming from a singularity, Whether you choose to interpret that as the big bang or not is open to debate. But the Quran does say unambigious things that couldn't have been known at the time of revelation.

for instance:

WE MADE EVERY LIVING THING FROM WATER? WILL THEY NOT BELIEVE? [21:30]

80% of the cytoplasm (basic cell material) of a standard animal cell is water. how does the prophet know that without microscopes... In the deserts
of Arabia, the last thing someone would have guessed is that all life came from water.

It also says:

IT IS HE WHO CREATED NIGHT AND DAY, THE SUN AND THE MOON, EACH FLOATING IN ITS ORBIT. [21:33]

A few decades ago, this would have been considered wrong but we know now that the sun and the moon have their own orbits....

DARKNESS OUT IN A DEEP OCEAN WHICH IS COVERED BY WAVES, ABOVE WHICH ARE WAVES, ABOVE WHICH ARE CLOUDS, LAYERS OF DARKNESS, ONE UPON THE OTHER. WHEN ONE PUTS OUT HIS HAND [THEREIN], HE CAN HARDLY SEE IT. THOSE GOD GIVES NO LIGHT TO, THEY HAVE NO LIGHT. [24:40]

The Quran mentions darkness in a deep ocean above which are waves,above which are waves, then clouds above that. This description is not only remarkable because it describes the internal waves in the ocean, but also because it describes darkness deep in the ocean. A human being can dive no more than 70 metres without breathing equipment. How did he obtain that kind of knowledge in the desert?..

There are no ambiguities in these statements... It is straight forward....

2. Man was created from an essence of clay: the basic materials used in the creation of man are from the earth. He was created for the earth. He did spend some time in paradise before coming to earth. Belief in this is posterior to the divinity of the Quran. I am more than convinced of the divinity of the Quran from the precision of the language, the word choice, everything. Believing that man lived in paradise before coming to earth is easy when i am convinced about the divinity of the book.

3. This is stupid.. The big bang is not a cause by itself, what instigated the big bang? The big bang is only an effect.... The cause of that effect is what we refer as God... At some point the universe was basically non-existent...

4. Shallow statement.... The Quran is for the guidance of humanity.. that is its purpose

5. (again?) When the Quran was revealed, slavery was in wide practice throughout the Arab World, thus, it would have been impractical and detrimental to place an immediate ban on the slave trade, forcing all slaves into unemployment/poverty. The Quran uses a better psychological approach to win people’s hearts in the struggle against slavery and all forms of discrimination by placing a strong emphasis on human dignity and equality and encouraging the freeing of slaves:

Did we not show him the two paths? He should choose the difficult path. Which one is the difficult path? The freeing of slaves. Feeding, during the time of hardship... [90:10-14]

Righteousness is not turning your faces towards the east or the west. Righteous are those who believe in God, the Last Day, the angels, the scripture, and the prophets; and they give the money, cheerfully, to the relatives, the orphans, the needy, the traveller, the beggars, and to free the slaves... [2:177]

The Quran lists the penalty for various misdemeanours as freeing of slaves, see 4:92, 5:89, 58:3. It also implies distribution of community/collective charities would contribute towards freeing of slaves:

The charities are to go to the poor, and the needy, and those who work to collect them, and those whose hearts have been united, and to free the slaves, and those in debt, and in the cause of God, and the traveller. A duty from God, and God is Knowledgeable, Wise. [9:60]

The only method mentioned in The Quran for gaining captives (more correctly termed 'prisoners of war', not slaves) is during warfare, after which they must be released or ransomed. Keeping them is not an option:

Therefore, if you encounter those who deny the truth (in warfare), then bring about the captives until when you have subdued/overcome them, then strengthen the bind. Then after either grace/favour or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. That, and had God willed, surely He would have gained victory Himself from them, but He tests some of you with others. And those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste. [47:4]


The Quran only talks about freeing slaves not capturing them....

tbaba1234:

First of all, it is called Quran;
Secondly, you have never destroyed anyone on nairaland.. stop repeating that jargon... it is so childish...

1. The Quran talks of the heavens and the earth coming from a singularity, Whether you choose to interpret that as the big bang or not is open to debate. But the Quran does say unambigious things that couldn't have been known at the time of revelation.

for instance:

WE MADE EVERY LIVING THING FROM WATER? WILL THEY NOT BELIEVE? [21:30]

80% of the cytoplasm (basic cell material) of a standard animal cell is water. how does the prophet know that without microscopes... In the deserts
of Arabia, the last thing someone would have guessed is that all life came from water.

It also says:

IT IS HE WHO CREATED NIGHT AND DAY, THE SUN AND THE MOON, EACH FLOATING IN ITS ORBIT. [21:33]

A few decades ago, this would have been considered wrong but we know now that the sun and the moon have their own orbits....

DARKNESS OUT IN A DEEP OCEAN WHICH IS COVERED BY WAVES, ABOVE WHICH ARE WAVES, ABOVE WHICH ARE CLOUDS, LAYERS OF DARKNESS, ONE UPON THE OTHER. WHEN ONE PUTS OUT HIS HAND [THEREIN], HE CAN HARDLY SEE IT. THOSE GOD GIVES NO LIGHT TO, THEY HAVE NO LIGHT. [24:40]

The Quran mentions darkness in a deep ocean above which are waves,above which are waves, then clouds above that. This description is not only remarkable because it describes the internal waves in the ocean, but also because it describes darkness deep in the ocean. A human being can dive no more than 70 metres without breathing equipment. How did he obtain that kind of knowledge in the desert?..

There are no ambiguities in these statements... It is straight forward....

2. Man was created from an essence of clay: the basic materials used in the creation of man are from the earth. He was created for the earth. He did spend some time in paradise before coming to earth. Belief in this is posterior to the divinity of the Quran. I am more than convinced of the divinity of the Quran from the precision of the language, the word choice, everything. Believing that man lived in paradise before coming to earth is easy when i am convinced about the divinity of the book.

3. This is stupid.. The big bang is not a cause by itself, what instigated the big bang? The big bang is only an effect.... The cause of that effect is what we refer as God... At some point the universe was basically non-existent...

4. Shallow statement.... The Quran is for the guidance of humanity.. that is its purpose

5. (again?) When the Quran was revealed, slavery was in wide practice throughout the Arab World, thus, it would have been impractical and detrimental to place an immediate ban on the slave trade, forcing all slaves into unemployment/poverty. The Quran uses a better psychological approach to win people’s hearts in the struggle against slavery and all forms of discrimination by placing a strong emphasis on human dignity and equality and encouraging the freeing of slaves:

Did we not show him the two paths? He should choose the difficult path. Which one is the difficult path? The freeing of slaves. Feeding, during the time of hardship... [90:10-14]

Righteousness is not turning your faces towards the east or the west. Righteous are those who believe in God, the Last Day, the angels, the scripture, and the prophets; and they give the money, cheerfully, to the relatives, the orphans, the needy, the traveller, the beggars, and to free the slaves... [2:177]

The Quran lists the penalty for various misdemeanours as freeing of slaves, see 4:92, 5:89, 58:3. It also implies distribution of community/collective charities would contribute towards freeing of slaves:

The charities are to go to the poor, and the needy, and those who work to collect them, and those whose hearts have been united, and to free the slaves, and those in debt, and in the cause of God, and the traveller. A duty from God, and God is Knowledgeable, Wise. [9:60]

The only method mentioned in The Quran for gaining captives (more correctly termed 'prisoners of war', not slaves) is during warfare, after which they must be released or ransomed. Keeping them is not an option:

Therefore, if you encounter those who deny the truth (in warfare), then bring about the captives until when you have subdued/overcome them, then strengthen the bind. Then after either grace/favour or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. That, and had God willed, surely He would have gained victory Himself from them, but He tests some of you with others. And those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste. [47:4]


The Quran only talks about freeing slaves not capturing them....

1) The Quran is not scientific. Man was not created. Evolution. Man evolved from other life forms.

2) The Quran is not divine. A book that could not define slavery as a sin but condemns stealing.

3) Allah can not be the Merciful (Al Rahim) and at the same time be the Inflictor (Ad-dar)

4) Allah does not exist. There is no physical evidence for him. We can only guess. Guessing is saying that Allah is the cause of the big bang with no emprical evidence.

5) Even a child would know that many animals are made up of water. What is blood if not water? Allah is called Allah the healer. What sickness has he healed? Why do we need doctors then?

“We sent down in the Quran that which is a cure and mercy for the faithful”. (17:82)

“Say: For those who have faith, it (Quran) is a guidance and healing; but as for those who are faithless, there is a deafness in their ears and it is lost to their sight”. (41:44)

The Quran seems to be biased against unbelievers, dont you think?

logicboy:
1) The Quran is not scientific. Man was not created. Evolution. Man evolved from other life forms.

2) The Quran is not divine. A book that could not define slavery as a sin but condemns stealing.

3) Allah can not be the Merciful (Al Rahim) and at the same time be the Inflictor (Ad-dar)

4) Allah does not exist. There is no physical evidence for him. We can only guess. Guessing is saying that Allah is the cause of the big bang with no emprical evidence.

5) Even a child would know that many animals are made up of water. What is blood if not water? Allah is called Allah the healer. What sickness has he healed? Why do we need doctors then?

“We sent down in the Quran that which is a cure and mercy for the faithful”. (17:82)

“Say: For those who have faith, it (Quran) is a guidance and healing; but as for those who are faithless, there is a deafness in their ears and it is lost to their sight”. (41:44)

The Quran seems to be biased against unbelievers, dont you think?

1. Evolution is an interesting theory for existence, but even evolution does not negate the existence of a God. We have no problem in believing in some kind of evolution. The main problem with evolution and Islam is the story of Adam. For instance the Quran states that the heavens and earth were created in 6 ayums or 6 periods... A period is not defined as six 24 hour days...

He is God, the Creator, the Inventor,the Fashioner (evolver); to Him belong the best names.1547 Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is
the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (surah 59:24)

The islamic civilisation has always had pre modern views on evolution, for instance:

al-Jahiz (c. 776-869) said:

"Animals engage in a struggle for existence; for resources, to avoid being eaten and to breed. Environmental factors influence organisms to develop new characteristics to ensure survival, thus transforming into new species. Animals that survive to breed can pass on their successful characteristics to offspring."

Muslim accept microevolution not macroevolution generally but that does not change our view on God. Evolution is not the crushing blow to the religion of the muslim because we have always had the position of some kind of evolution of creatures.. It does not negate the existence of a creator... who set everything in motion.

The Quran is not a science book... It is a book of signs...

2. It does tell you to free slaves, marry slaves, integrate them doesn't it? you live in a different socio-economic situation that is the only reason, you would say that. If you know anything about changing social conditions... you know it can't be done overnight. The US as a country went through a civil war even in the industrial age before slavery was abolished. imagine those that were not in the industrial age.

3. yes he can... We do not say God is all merciful.... we say He is The Merciful...Meaning he exhibits greater mercy than mankind...He is also AD-Darr: Meaning the afflictor not the all afflictor.. so sometimes, he shows us mercy or afflicts us with harm. The names have to looked at together not separately...

4. Well, He does.... the signs are all around you...if only you reason

Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the [great] ships which sail through the sea with that
which benefits people, and what God has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein
every [kind of] moving creature, and [His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and earth are signs for a people who use reason (Surah 2: 164)

5. Every time you go to the hospital and get healed, that is God healing you... The Quran is a healing for the diseased heart (metaphor).

A disbeliever is one who has been presented with Islam in the true form and rejects it. The Quran uses the word kufr, which means to hide, to bury... The disbeliever is a select group of people.

tbaba1234:

1. Evolution is an interesting theory for existence, but even evolution does not negate the existence of a God. We have no problem in believing in some kind of evolution. The main problem with evolution and Islam is the story of Adam. For instance the Quran states that the heavens and earth were created in 6 ayums or 6 periods... A period is not defined as six 24 hour days...

He is God, the Creator, the Inventor,the Fashioner (evolver); to Him belong the best names.1547 Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is
the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (surah 59:24)

The islamic civilisation has always had pre modern views on evolution, for instance:

al-Jahiz (c. 776-869) said:

"Animals engage in a struggle for existence; for resources, to avoid being eaten and to breed. Environmental factors influence organisms to develop new characteristics to ensure survival, thus transforming into new species. Animals that survive to breed can pass on their successful characteristics to offspring."

Muslim accept microevolution not macroevolution generally but that does not change our view on God. Evolution is not the crushing blow to the religion of the muslim because we have always had the position of some kind of evolution of creatures.. It does not negate the existence of a creator... who set everything in motion.

The Quran is not a science book... It is a book of signs...

2. It does tell you to free slaves, marry slaves, integrate them doesn't it? you live in a different socio-economic situation that is the only reason, you would say that. If you know anything about changing social conditions... you know it can't be done overnight. The US as a country went through a civil war even in the industrial age before slavery was abolished. imagine those that were not in the industrial age.

3. yes he can... We do not say God is all merciful.... we say He is The Merciful...Meaning he exhibits greater mercy than mankind...He is also AD-Darr: Meaning the afflictor not the all afflictor.. so sometimes, he shows us mercy or afflicts us with harm. The names have to looked at together not separately...

4. Well, He does.... the signs are all around you...if only you reason

Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the [great] ships which sail through the sea with that
which benefits people, and what God has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein
every [kind of] moving creature, and [His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and earth are signs for a people who use reason (Surah 2: 164)

5. Every time you go to the hospital and get healed, that is God healing you... The Quran is a healing for the diseased heart (metaphor).

A disbeliever is one who has been presented with Islam in the true form and rejects it. The Quran uses the word kufr, which means to hide, to bury... The disbeliever is a select group of people.

Tbaba, you're a smart guy. It really pains me to argue against you but that is the price I have to pay to establish the truth.

1) Evolution has one thing in common with the Koran. You can not accept the Koran halfway the same way you can not accept evolution half way. Evolution and it's different parts are linked. Evolution is a scientifc theory like germ theory, I dont see you arguing against germ theory.

2) Evolution debunks the story that Adam and Eve were created. Man was never created. Furthermore, the Koran claims that man lived in Jannah before coming to earth. Where is this Jannah that man was created in?

3) The Koran has bad priorites. What is better? Abolishing slave trade or saying that you should marry a slave. Remember that slaves came form other places which were not muslim. If the slave fails to convert, the consequences could be lethal. The Koran calls a lot of trivial things haram like riba, pork, premarital sex etc......why not call slavery haraam?

4) There are no signs around me for God. Life would be simple if Allah could show himself in public once in a while. But he doesnt exist. Even allah is an atheist- He doesnt believe in any god

5) The people that died of flu before germ theory and drugs were made were not healed by Allah but the ones that survived with the odrugs made were healed by Allah? Is that your thinking?

The islamic civilisation has always had pre modern views on evolution, for instance:

al-Jahiz (c. 776-869) said:

"Animals engage in a struggle for existence; for resources, to avoid being eaten and to breed. Environmental factors influence organisms to develop new characteristics to ensure survival, thus transforming into new species. Animals that survive to breed can pass on their successful characteristics to offspring."

Muslim accept microevolution not macroevolution generally but that does not change our view on God. Evolution is not the crushing blow to the religion of the muslim because we have always had the position of some kind of evolution of creatures.. It does not negate the existence of a creator... who set everything in motion.

Al-Jahiz is not the Koran. Even cavemen knew that animals fight for resources.

logicboy:


Tbaba, you're a smart guy. It really pains me to argue against you but that is the price I have to pay to establish the truth.

1) Evolution has one thing in common with the Koran. You can not accept the Koran halfway the same way you can not accept evolution half way. Evolution and it's different parts are linked. Evolution is a scientifc theory like germ theory, I dont see you arguing against germ theory.

2) Evolution debunks the story that Adam and Eve were created. Man was never created. Furthermore, the Koran claims that man lived in Jannah before coming to earth. Where is this Jannah that man was created in?

3) The Koran has bad priorites. What is better? Abolishing slave trade or saying that you should marry a slave. Remember that slaves came form other places which were not muslim. If the slave fails to convert, the consequences could be lethal. The Koran calls a lot of trivial things haram like riba, pork, premarital sex etc......why not call slavery haraam?

4) There are no signs around me for God. Life would be simple if Allah could show himself in public once in a while. But he doesnt exist. Even allah is an atheist- He doesnt believe in any god

5) The people that died of flu before germ theory and drugs were made were not healed by Allah but the ones that survived with the odrugs made were healed by Allah? Is that your thinking?


Al-Jahiz is not the Koran. Even cavemen knew that animals fight for resources.

I hope you do find the truth and become muslim

1. Islamic scholars were evolutionary thinkers way before darwin. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/feb/27/islam-religion-evolution-science
These were actual religious scholars not just scientists. However, we draw the line, We do not believe that human beings today have evolved from non-human creatures. Maybe other species might have, but not humans. That does not however negate the need for a creator who set the universe in motion.

God has created every [living] creature from water. And of them are those that move on their bellies, and of them are those that walk on two legs, and of
them are those that walk on four. God creates what He wills. Indeed, God is over all things competent. (Surah 24:45)

Islam is the balance between the evolutionist who does not believe in God and the creationist who does not believe in science. We have no problem with science, we have always been an intellectual civilisation. Some of that is lost now but hopefully muslims gain that again.

2. No, it does not.... If you become muslim, you might find out where Jannah is...

3. Social changes takes time, gradual integration is a better way to get rid of slave trade than outright ban. As regards, the other rules like Riba, pork and premarital sex... Muslims are convinced of their faith and of the divinity of the Quran. Obeying the laws of the creator is easy when you are absolutely convinced of what it says... We hear and we obey.

4. He has sent revelations to you, it is up to you to use your intellect. It is arrogant to ask for the creator of the heavens and the earth to pay you a physical visit.

5. yes,he controls all things....

tbaba1234:

I hope you do find the truth and become muslim

1. Islamic scholars were evolutionary thinkers way before darwin. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/feb/27/islam-religion-evolution-science
These were actual religious scholars not just scientists. However, we draw the line, We do not believe that human beings today have evolved from non-human creatures. Maybe other species might have, but not humans. That does not however negate the need for a creator who set the universe in motion.

God has created every [living] creature from water. And of them are those that move on their bellies, and of them are those that walk on two legs, and of
them are those that walk on four. God creates what He wills. Indeed, God is over all things competent. (Surah 24:45)

Islam is the balance between the evolutionist who does not believe in God and the creationist who does not believe in science. We have no problem with science, we have always been an intellectual civilisation. Some of that is lost now but hopefully muslims gain that again.

2. No, it does not.... If you become muslim, you might find out where Jannah is...

3. Social changes takes time, gradual integration is a better way to get rid of slave trade than outright ban. As regards, the other rules like Riba, pork and premarital sex... Muslims are convinced of their faith and of the divinity of the Quran. Obeying the laws of the creator is easy when you are absolutely convinced of what it says... We hear and we obey.

4. He has sent revelations to you, it is up to you to use your intellect. It is arrogant to ask for the creator of the heavens and the earth to pay you a physical visit.

5. yes,he controls all things....

I give up. I dont think this is going anywhere. I think it is better to debate on one particular issue at a time. Right now, it is just you saying yes and me saying no.

I think I will satart threads on

-Riba
-Islam and slavery
-Islam and polygamy

One topic at a time

logicboy:


I give up. I dont think this is going anywhere. I think it is better to debate on one particular issue at a time. Right now, it is just you saying yes and me saying no.

I think I will satart threads on

-Riba
-Islam and slavery
-Islam and polygamy

One topic at a time

Islam and violence against women?