buzugee: all the saints are israelites psalms 149 Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.
2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.

all the other nations were heathens who didnt have the laws. so they could never be saints. "Saints" simply means God's people, In the old testament it would make sense that the saints would be the Israelites as they are Abraham's seed but in the new testament, God's people are not limited to Jews alone. Galatians 3:26-29 says: For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

buzugee:

for God so loved the world
that he gave his only begotten son to sacrifice himself so that the lords laws can be made available to the whole world
so that they may be elevated from spiritual death and into the light and hence live forever. ( you have everlasting life through the spirit not the flesh )For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

buzugee:

for God so loved the world
that he gave his only begotten son to sacrifice himself so that the lords laws can be made available to the whole world
so that they may be elevated from spiritual death and into the light and hence live forever. ( you have everlasting life through the spirit not the flesh )

buzugee:

for God so loved the world
that he gave his only begotten son to sacrifice himself so that the lords laws can be made available to the whole world
so that they may be elevated from spiritual death and into the light and hence live forever. ( you have everlasting life through the spirit not the flesh )

Mr_Anony:
I would also implore you to read Acts 10 and 11. It is the story of Cornelius and how he and his family came to be saved.




My friend buzugee,so far I have heard you over and over again continue to uphold a falsehood that nullifies the essence of the sacrifice of Christ. I have repeatedly tried to show you through scripture as well as many other christians on this forum including Joagbaje, jmoore, joe4christ, ayomivic e.t.c. but you have stubbornly stuck to your guns repeatedly committing heresy, playing on words and quoting scripture out of context to support your false claims. You keep talking about Jesus Christ dying to make God's law available (that is not why He died) but you fail to talk about the grace by which we are saved. Jesus was sent to fulfil the law (i.e accomplish all that the law requires so that all we now have to do is to rely on Him so that He may save us.) [b]For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more. [i]In that He says, A new covenant, He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.[/i][/b]Hebrews 8:12-13 (for better clarity read the whole of Hebrews 8 and 9)

This is the Gospel: All men were in sin. According to the law we deserved to die but God loved us so much that He gave us His only begotten son Jesus Christ who came as a man, went about doing good, who was crucified thereby paying the full price for our sins so that we may be forgiven. I.e. He died on our behalf so that we don't have to die anymore. After three days He rose up and ascended to heaven and will come back to rapture those of us who believe, trust and rely on Him. We do not have to obey a bunch of laws anymore. All we have to do is to give our lives to Christ, i.e. to believe in Him and the Holy Spirit takes it from there, working in and through us every step of the way. This is what I know Christianity to be according to scripture.


But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men. Titus 3:4-8


But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition,11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned. Titus 3:9-11




Remember I asked you originally if the purpose of this thread was to edify and whether you will acknowledge your error if it was shown to you. So far I perceive that what you are more interested in is not truth but a need to promote your agenda no matter how erroneous it is shown to be.....perhaps it makes you feel smart I don't know. The message you preach my friend is heresy.
The danger is that a few people might be misled by it including you as well.

May God help you to understand.

Ayomivic: [b][/b][/i]
Iam the living which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever and the bread that i will give is my flesh which i will give for the life of the world[i]
Iam the living which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever and the bread that i will give is my flesh which i will give for the life of the world
Iam the living which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever and the bread that i will give is my flesh which i will give for the life of the world John 6:51

joe4christ:

And why was'nt it written as 'For the lord so loveth his people the israelites that he gave his only son to die for them that whosever shall believes in this sacrifice of love by God toward his people shall not perish but have everlasting life?'
maybe it would have been better that way.

Now listen to me, if you think the blood of Jesus is incapable of atoning for your sins, then live with it and not infest your pathetic, self-derived doctrine on others. Just hold strongly to your believe, afterall jesus is coming back to Judge his church first before even Judging the world.

If the blood of Jesus is incapable of atoning for your sins then it simply means your sins are not forgiven you, and if you die at this moment you already know your fate, eternity in hell will be awaiting you right?

But i chose to believe the word of God, and leave you to your pathetic shallow mind.

Ptolomeus: When I think that the Jewish-Christian god demanded human sacrifices demanded that parents kill their children as an offering ... and sacrificed his son ...
Sorry for you, with my utmost respect, but ... I feel a certain repulsion ...

buzugee: you know what the problem is ? and i would hate to have to do this but i am been forced to. nigerians as a whole lack critical thinking skills. in your head you cant fathom how jesus dying for the israelites computes into him dying to save the whole world. i am going to have to break it down to the lowest common denominator. IF A WOMAN IS DYING BECAUSE HER HEART HAS FAILED AND SHE HAS 10 KIDS WHO ARE DEPENDING ON HER TO BE ALIVE. IF SHE DIES, THOSE 10 KIDS WILL BE HOMELESS AND HUNGRY. IF A MAN DECIDES THAT HE WILL GIVE UP HIS LIFE TO DIE FOR THE WOMAN SO SHE CAN HAVE HIS HEART AND BE WITH HER 10 KIDS WHO NEED HER. THE MAN DIDNT DIRECTLY DIE FOR THE 10 KIDS BUT HE INDIRECTLY DIED FOR THE 10 KIDS BY DYING FOR THEIR MOTHER TO HAVE HIS HEART . does this make more sense to you ? and i have read the story of cornelius. still dont change nothing.

Ptolomeus: When I think that the Jewish-Christian god demanded human sacrifices demanded that parents kill their children as an offering ... and sacrificed his son ...
Sorry for you, with my utmost respect, but ... I feel a certain repulsion ...

buzugee:

Jo i believe you are not paying attention. Jesus died only for the jews to atone ( not forgive their sins ) so God could keep working through them
There is no special favors in that. it is just what it is. he works through his first born children. and the intention is to
get through to the rest of the world.

exodus 4 vs 22 [b]Then you will tell him, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn

Mr_Anony:

I think I get your analogy but I don't think it describes the situation accurately. I assume that the woman in the analogy would refer to the Jews and the children would be the rest of the world? If this is so, then you would be saying that Christ's sacrifice does not directly benefit mankind but indirectly through the Jews. A more accurate version according to scripture, would be:-
A man dies by donating his blood so that his little children who are in critical need of a blood transfusion may live (though he had a favourite amongst them, he gives away his blood for all of them. The child whose body system does not accept the man's blood will die favourite or not)

By the way I noticed a thread where you were trying to link Hebrews to Ibos. Could it be possible that the motivation for this thread was to satisfy a need to make yourself feel special by ascribing some sort of superiority to your ethnic group?

Mr_Anony:

......And of what relevance is your "certain repulsion" to this thread? ....Oh, ok now we know how you feel, you can go back to where you came from. Thanks for dropping by.

Joagbaje:

let me just be clear about something buzugee. The God of the Jews was the Jews God of the whole universe. he honored everyone who called upon him. he was not only a God to the Jews only. other nations were brought into Judaism also. remember corneLuis, euthopean eunuch etc. they were called proselites. this has been on as far back as old testament times. so the God of the Jews was worshipped by nations. Jesus died for the whole world

buzugee: see Oga Jo, first off Judaism is a religion formed by the turkish mongolian khazars who reside currently in israel. JEWRY IS A LINEAGE NOT A RELIGION. judaism, like every other religion under the sun is not off God. . . .

. Judaism

Judaism is the religion of the Jewish people. It is the first monotheistic religion, and is amongst the oldest of the world's religions. Universally known, it has influenced many aspects of Western civilization. . . .

Joagbaje:




http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaism.html

buzugee: Your analogy is off point because it provides no intermediary.And no, i am not igbo by any stretch of the imagination.

Mr_Anony:
My point exactly!.........the death and resurrection of Christ has made every intermediary obsolete and grants us free and direct access to the Father

buzugee: still does not negate the initial point of this thread, which is christ did not die to forgive you of your sins.

Mr_Anony:
Which is a false statement and this has been shown through scripture numerous times by different authors on this thread

buzugee: keep on subscribing to your doctrine of demons brought to you by the roman catholic church. at least i have planted a seed.

ephesians 2 vs 14 For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united Jews and Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the cross, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us.
THATS THE REASON CHRIST DIED. TO REUNITE JEWS AND GENTILES UNDER THE LAW.

Mr_Anony:

Yes Christ died to reunite Jews and Gentiles but not under the law rather he liberates us from it.
I have quoted back to you Ephesians 2:14-18 so that you can read the whole thing and not just pick verse 14 out of context:

14.For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united Jews and Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the cross, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us.
15. He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups.
16. Together as one body, Christ reconciled both groups to God by means of his death on the cross, and our hostility toward each other was put to death.
17. He brought this Good News of peace to you Gentiles who were far away from him, and peace to the Jews who were near.
18. Now all of us can come to the Father through the same Holy Spirit because of what Christ has done for us.

(You can also go ahead to read the whole chapter for better clarity)

I hope this now makes it clear to you what the bible says.

buzugee: [s]Jesus died only for the israelites so that God can continue working through them to establish his laws statutes and commandments in print. The israelites are the only nations that God works through ( psalms 147 vs 19-20 ). He does not work with any other nations. He is the master of heir-achy. He uplifts a nation ( psalams 75 vs 7 ) and then thats the nation he works through to get to the rest. In this case he is working through his firstborn children ( amos 3 vs 2 ).

when israel fell into sin, God could not continue working through them because the wages of sin is death ( romans 6 vs 23 ). death in this instance means spiritual death. what is spiritual death ? means complete detachment from God. your spirit is lost and detached from its source of power and guidance. When this happens the lord cant work through you anymore, but the laws had not been fully established in written form and the people whom he works through have detached themselves from him because of their sins. so what does he do to alleviate this little nuisance ?. blood is needed to atone for your sins with the lord. blood is life. blood brings life. blood gives life. with blood you atone for sins NOT FORGIVE IT (leviticus 17 vs 11 ). so he offered a sacrificial lamb that will atone for the sins of israel so as to proactively atone for their sins so that even in their sinful state he is not detached from them because their sins are proactively atoned for. meaning any sins they commit is wiped away automatically. hence the connection to the source and to the lord is constant and not intermittent as it would be if you had to go look for a goat to sacrifice. the sacrificed goat only atones for that one sin you committed. the blood of jesus atones proactively for all sins. hence continuous as opposed to intermittent connection to God and hence God can continue to work through the israelites even in their sin to bring forth the book of laws statutes and commandments to the rest of the world. even paul who struggled with sin was able to write the new testament even in his struggles because his sins had been automatically atoned for and hence the lord had constant access to him so he can bring forth his words and laws. THIS WAS THE REASON WHY CHRIST CAME TO DIE FOR THE ISRAELITES. NOT TO FORGIVE THEIR SINS BUT TO ATONE FOR THEIR SINS SO THAT GOD CAN CONTINUE TO WORK THROUGH THEM EVEN IN THEIR SINFUL STATE TO BRING FORTH HIS LAWS STATUTES AND COMMANDMENTS TO THE REST OF THE HEATHEN NATIONS.

so what does all this mean ? it simply means that Jesus dying on the cross is of no benefit to you. it was a measure necessary for the lord to get his laws out to the rest of the world. your sins are not forgiven by jesus blood. there are 2 verses which applies to you in this life.
1-ecclesiastes 12 vs 13[b] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.[/b]

2-galatians 6 vs 7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap ( whatever sin you commit or commandments you break, you will get a nice butt whooping for. kinda like the laws of karma. you will recieve evil for the evil you commit basically )

so the point here is you will always pay for your sins. your sins are not forgiven by jesus blood. jesus did not come to die for you. it had nothing to do with you. jesus only died so the lord can continue working to get his laws out to the world through the israelites.
you will always reap the harvest of your sins. no blood forgave you of your sins.[/s]

buzugee: MATTHEW 5 VS 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

ECCLESIASTES 12 VS 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Ptolomeus: When I think that the Jewish-Christian god demanded human sacrifices demanded that parents kill their children as an offering ... and sacrificed his son ...
Sorry for you, with my utmost respect, but ... [size=15pt] I feel a certain repulsion ... [/size]

rastamouse:

CRAP!

Mr_Anony:

You know what, I could show you your errors over and over again using scripture until the cows come home but I sense it will be futile because typical of your hardheartedness and stubbornness rather than read the scripture with an open mind so that God will reveal His truth to you, you first make up your own agenda and then cherry-pick verses of scripture - often quoting them out of context - to support your erroneous claim.
In my last post I showed you clearly from Ephesians 2 (scripture you yourself quoted) how your statement was wrong but rather than accept the truth or at least explain what you understood from it, you jumped to another part of the bible to cherry-pick more verses to chant as mantra.
You are like a little kid who covers his ears screaming "Blah blah blah, I cant hear you!"
I give up! You can continue in your heresy if you like. I pray God will be merciful to you and reveal His truth.
Truly no one comes to the Father except the Holy Spirit draws the one.

ijawkid: Buzugee ona still dey deliberate on this issue

Which kin wahala be this o...lol

joe4christ: [size=15pt] Mr Buzugee I have to leave you to your believe, the spirit of God will not continue to strive with man forever.
Heaven bears me withness that i've tried to prove the way to you but you turn deaf ears to my warning, i wish you all the best.

*NOTE* But note that since you dont believe the blood of christ is capable of atoning for your sins, then you can only await God's wrath on the day of Judgment since your sins are not forgiven you, but i choose to believe what the scripture says and not your misconception. Goodluck! [/size]