ChinenyeN:
I'd say that the 'classy' factor is a misnomer, or at the very least, a consequence of the familiarity. Truth be told, that familiarity helped shape what it means to "speak Igbo". So much so that I (and I'm sure many others) have even had the pleasure of being told that I don't speak Igbo or don't know how to speak Igbo, simply because I don't speak Onitsha or some semblance of it. It stands as a testament of the degree of ignorance Onitsha has caused among Igbo-speaking people, and that has helped Onitsha to become a socialite's dialect.

Onitsha is essentially a socialite's Igbo in large part because of the legacy of familiarity that surrounds it. It was perpetuated by trade. The church and the Igbo academia.

iSlayer:




Are you sure virtually any Igbo can follow the Mbano dialect? It's a pity I'm not familiar with it myself I would have shared my opinion. If it's anything close to Mbaise (which I've heard severally) then it's not easy to understand o.

Mbano is divided into two local government areas; Isiala Mbano and Ehime Mbano. I'm talking specifically about Isiala Mbano. Our dialect is nothing like that of Mbaise groups. Mbano and Mbaise are not contagious groups. Mbaise dialect is closer to Owerri dialect.

Isiala Mbano dialect is quite closer to Nkwerre and Amaigbo dialects.

ChinenyeN:


It is still valid today. We are still experiencing the effect of that era. What we characterize as "speaking Igbo". How we have come to identity "Igbo language identity". The controversy that many experience with having to water down their lects or being told that "oh, you're learning to speak Igbo". All of that is the fallout from that period. Is it even a fallout? Catholicism still reigns within the population and they still carry that Onitsha-standard legacy. The legacy was further perpetuated by Izugbe, which further mirrors the Onitsha-Idemmili-Njokoka style dialects. And Izugbe is not hardly used. The fact that we are made to write in it consistently is a testament to that. We may not speak it as we do with some of the urban standards, but rest assured, Igbo people have made it a point to generally discourage writing in non-Izugbe. As a result, further perpetuating the Onitsha-Idemmili-Njokoka familiarity. All in all, we are constantly surrounded by things that continue to push Onitsha-type dialects forward and give this impression that it's somehow an inherent quality of Onitsha when it actually is not.



Ah. I was confused by your use of common, since the extent of lectal diversity within the "Imo" region makes it impossible to say that there is really a "common" dialect in the area.

Bro,Igbo Izugbe is nothing like Igbo spoken by Onitsha Indigenes. Igbo Izugbe, the written Igbo has a heavy reliance on Ohuhu, and Egbu Igbo dialects. It also has a large vocabulary of Onitsha Igbo dialect.

Believe me, the written Igbo is nothing like the Igbo spoken by Onitsha indigenes.

The spoken Igbo spoken in Onitsha by various immigrant groups into Onitsha is also a bit different from the Igbo spoken by Onitsha people themselves.

ChinenyeN:


It is still valid today. We are still experiencing the effect of that era. What we characterize as "speaking Igbo". How we have come to identity "Igbo language identity". The controversy that many experience with having to water down their lects or being told that "oh, you're learning to speak Igbo". All of that is the fallout from that period. Is it even a fallout? Catholicism still reigns within the population and they still carry that Onitsha-standard legacy. The legacy was further perpetuated by Izugbe, which further mirrors the Onitsha-Idemmili-Njokoka style dialects. And Izugbe is not hardly used. The fact that we are made to write in it consistently is a testament to that. We may not speak it as we do with some of the urban standards, but rest assured, Igbo people have made it a point to generally discourage writing in non-Izugbe. As a result, further perpetuating the Onitsha-Idemmili-Njokoka familiarity. All in all, we are constantly surrounded by things that continue to push Onitsha-type dialects forward and give this impression that it's somehow an inherent quality of Onitsha when it actually is not.



Ah. I was confused by your use of common, since the extent of lectal diversity within the "Imo" region makes it impossible to say that there is really a "common" dialect in the area.

I fully understand your point. Infact it's a good one and I had not considered that angle. Yes there's fallout from that period and that particular standard is still maintained especially regarding Catholicism.



THENNNNN, juxtaposing my experiences in Nsukka with this point you shared I will agree with you. But from another angle. I think there's an erroneous generalization (which I am even guilty of on this same thread) that virtually everyone will understand that dialect fully on first contact but it's not true. Throughout my stay in Nsukka I interacted with the locals and I can tell you you might be surprised to hear not all of them understand that dialect we're talking about. They generally got the idea of what I'm saying but they didn't get it fully. I had situations where I had to repeat what I was saying numerous times before they got what I was saying. But this did not happen very often, such instances were isolated.

So I'll agree with you from this angle, which I think is more accurate: Taking Nsukka as a case study. Biecause of the widespread practice of Catholicism across the area, many will understand that dialect because they've been hitherto exposed to it in church and prayers etc. And because this number is great one would be deceived to think virtually all of them understand it because it's somehow "easier to grab" but that's not true. And eventually when you chance upon the few (though very isolated) who have not hitherto been exposed to it you find out the "easy to grab" dialect is not so easy to grab afterall. Add to this a little contribution from exposure to Izugbe and it all makes sense.

Pchidexy:


Bro,Igbo Izugbe is nothing like Igbo spoken by Onitsha Indigenes. Igbo Izugbe, the written Igbo has a heavy reliance on Ohuhu, and Egbu Igbo dialects. It also has a large vocabulary of Onitsha Igbo dialect.

Believe me, the written Igbo is nothing like the Igbo spoken by Onitsha indigenes.

The spoken Igbo spoken in Onitsha by various immigrant groups into Onitsha is also a bit different from the Igbo spoken by Onitsha people themselves.

You're right. Calling it Onitsha dialect because it is spoken in the area doesn't mean it's spoken by Onitsha people. That's a mixup. I hardly call that common dialect Onitsha dialect because it's not accurate to call it so. Native Onitsha I presume will be different (I've not had much interaction with native Onitsha people) from what is spoken in the "streets" which is a mashup of dialects from various places but mostly borrowing from Onitsha and it's environs.


However, quite interestingly, because of the wide use of Igbo Izugbe (which has an akin structure to Anambra dialects or the Idenmili area to narrow down) when many from southern Igboland want to sound more "central" instead of using the very formal Igbo Izugbe they just use that Anambra originated mashup. Interesting.

iSlayer:



You're right. Calling it Onitsha dialect because it is spoken in the area doesn't mean it's spoken by Onitsha people. That's a mixup. I hardly call that common dialect Onitsha dialect because it's not accurate to call it so. Native Onitsha I presume will be different (I've not had much interaction with native Onitsha people) from what is spoken in the "streets" which is a mashup of dialects from various places but mostly borrowing from Onitsha and it's environs.


However, quite interestingly, because of the wide use of Igbo Izugbe (which has an akin structure to Anambra dialects or the Idenmili area to narrow down) when many from southern Igboland want to sound more "central" instead of using the very formal Igbo Izugbe they just use that Anambra originated mashup. Interesting.

I lived in Onitsha for a long time. I was born and brought up in Onitsha. So, I know for a certain that the written Igbo is different from the Igbo spoken by Onitsha indigenes.

Central Igbo or Igbo Izugbe is not a living language but a language constructed by the Onwu Committee shortly before Independence. The CI was drawn from some parts of Owerri, specifically Egbu, parts of Umuahia, specifically Ohuhu and also Onitsha dialect. Central Igbo is still used in the academia extensively and it is mutually intelligible to all Igbo groups. Central Igbo is not Onitsha/ Idemmili Igbo.

I will give you an example of Onitsha dialect and the Igbo spoken by immigrants in Onitsha

Eng: What's your name
Onitsha Dialect: Kedu afa i/yi
Spoken Onitsha and Suburban area: Kedu afa gi

Eng: Go and wash the plate
ONID: Ga cha avere
SOSA: Ga sa efere

Eng: Your mother is calling you
ONID: Nne i/yi na akpo i/yi
SOSA: Nne gi na akpo gi.

The differences are basically slight but still enough to tell when an Onitsha indigene speaks and when someone who just grew up in Onitsha speaks.

Pchidexy:


I lived in Onitsha for a long time. I was born and brought up in Onitsha. So, I know for a certain that the written Igbo is different from the Igbo spoken by Onitsha indigenes.

Central Igbo or Igbo Izugbe is not a living language but a language constructed by the Onwu Committee shortly before Independence. The CI was drawn from some parts of Owerri, specifically Egbu, parts of Umuahia, specifically Ohuhu and also Onitsha dialect. Central Igbo is still used in the academia extensively and it is mutually intelligible to all Igbo groups. Central Igbo is not Onitsha/ Idemmili Igbo.

I will give you an example of Onitsha dialect and the Igbo spoken by immigrants in Onitsha

Eng: What's your name
Onitsha Dialect: Kedu afa i/yi
Spoken Onitsha and Suburban area: Kedu afa gi

Eng: Go and wash the plate
ONID: Ga cha avere
SOSA: Ga sa efere

Eng: Your mother is calling you
ONID: Nne i/yi na akpo i/yi
SOSA: Nne gi na akpo gi.

The differences are basically slight but still enough to tell when an Onitsha indigene speaks and when someone who just grew up in Onitsha speaks.

That's what I'm saying.


Thanks for sharing those examples of spoken Onitsha. I suspected it will be very close to my dialect and it is.

Pchidexy:
Bro,Igbo Izugbe is nothing like Igbo spoken by Onitsha Indigenes. Igbo Izugbe, the written Igbo has a heavy reliance on Ohuhu, and Egbu Igbo dialects. It also has a large vocabulary of Onitsha Igbo dialect.

Believe me, the written Igbo is nothing like the Igbo spoken by Onitsha indigenes.

The spoken Igbo spoken in Onitsha by various immigrant groups into Onitsha is also a bit different from the Igbo spoken by Onitsha people themselves.

When we say "Onitsha", we are not referring to Onitsha "Town". We are rather referring to the general dialect of the old Onitsha province, which Onitsha indigenes also contributed to (let's be honest). That is why we often used "Onitsha-Idemmili" to refer to this axis. However, it is just as easy to simply say "Onitsha", as it is the name of the province for that axis.

Izugbe is not based on Ohuhu and Egbu. You are thinking of a previous standard, "Central", that was explicitly developed and based on Ohuhu and Owerri. Central has been defunct/phased out now for over the past 40 years. Izugbe has taken its place. Central is not the work of the SPILC. You have been confusing Central with Izugbe. Here is the breakdown.

Dr. Ward created Central and it was adopted by the Methodists. Central is based off the specialized dialects of Ohuhu Umuahia and Owerri.

Dr. SE Onwu chaired the Onwu Committee, which was responsible for putting an end to the orthography controversy that plagued Igbo literary works. Onwu's contribution to written Igbo is the orthography that we use today. The fact that we have combining dot diacritics and a structured tone marking system as opposed to specialized characters.

FC Ogbalu started the SPILC and created Izugbe. It is basically a mirror of Onitsha province speech and an extension of the legacy of using the Onitsha standard. The Onwu orthography shows up here, because Ogbalu and the SPILC elected to discard their own in-house orthography for the one recommended by the Onwu Committee. When Izugbe was released, it was one of the standards that simply used Onwu orthography.

ChinenyeN:


When we say "Onitsha", we are not referring to Onitsha "Town". We are rather referring to the general dialect of the old Onitsha province, which Onitsha indigenes also contributed to (let's be honest). That is why we often used "Onitsha-Idemmili" to refer to this axis. However, it is just as easy to simply say "Onitsha", as it is the name of the province for that axis.

Izugbe is not based on Ohuhu and Egbu. You are thinking of a previous standard, "Central", that was explicitly developed and based on Ohuhu and Owerri. Central has been defunct/phased out now for over the past 40 years. Izugbe has taken its place. Central is not the work of the SPILC. You have been confusing Central with Izugbe. Here is the breakdown.

Dr. Ward created Central and it was adopted by the Methodists. Central is based off the specialized dialects of Ohuhu Umuahia and Owerri.

Dr. SE Onwu chaired the Onwu Committee, which was responsible for putting an end to the orthography controversy that plagued Igbo literary works. Onwu's contribution to written Igbo is the orthography that we use today. The fact that we have combining dot diacritics and a structured tone marking system as opposed to specialized characters.

FC Ogbalu started the SPILC and created Izugbe. It is basically a mirror of Onitsha province speech and an extension of the legacy of using the Onitsha standard. The Onwu orthography shows up here, because Ogbalu and the SPILC elected to discard their own in-house orthography for the one recommended by the Onwu Committee. When Izugbe was released, it was one of the standards that simply used Onwu orthography.

Here's a quote from A History of Igbo Language done by the Columbia University

1952 == By the early fifties, many patriotic Igbo worried about unresolved orthography question. The Government convened another conference at Aba. Mr. R. I. Uzoma, Eastern Nigeria Minister of Education, presided. SPILC strongly opposed the "new" orthography. No decision was reached (Oraka p. 39).

1953 == Aug. 25: a select committee, chaired by Dr. S. E. Onwu, met at Owerri to evolve a compromise orthography. The four phonetic symbols in the new orthography were removed, but the suggestion to replace them with diacritical marks was rejected. All parties except SPILC were either satisfied or no longer interested in contesting the issue (Oraka p. 39).

1954 == Another committee meeting, headed by Mr. Alvan Ikoku. SPILC presented a "modified" orthography. It was rejected. SPILc members walked out on the meeting (Oraka p. 39).

1955 == F. C. Ogbalu issued his "compromise" orthography. Many other suggested orthographies were issued at different times by different groups and individuals. Controversy lingered until 1961, when the Government set up another committee, the Onwu Orthography Committee, chaired by Dr. S. E. Onwu, Assistant Director of Medical Services for Eastern Nigeria (Oraka p. 39).

1961 == Sept. 13: the eleven members of the Onwu Committee met at the W.T.C., Enugu. The Minister of Education warned them to reconsider use of diacritical marks, in line with SPILC recommendations. They produced a pacifying orthography using diacritical marks to distinguish "light" and "heavy' vowels which, with other recommendations, brought to an end the 32-year-old controversy. All parties were satisfied (Oraka pp. 34, 40). Here is that important text: *The Official Igbo Orthography as recommended by the Onwu Committee in 1961*.

ChinenyeN:


When we say "Onitsha", we are not referring to Onitsha "Town". We are rather referring to the general dialect of the old Onitsha province, which Onitsha indigenes also contributed to (let's be honest). That is why we often used "Onitsha-Idemmili" to refer to this axis. However, it is just as easy to simply say "Onitsha", as it is the name of the province for that axis.

Izugbe is not based on Ohuhu and Egbu. You are thinking of a previous standard, "Central", that was explicitly developed and based on Ohuhu and Owerri. Central has been defunct/phased out now for over the past 40 years. Izugbe has taken its place. Central is not the work of the SPILC. You have been confusing Central with Izugbe. Here is the breakdown.

Dr. Ward created Central and it was adopted by the Methodists. Central is based off the specialized dialects of Ohuhu Umuahia and Owerri.

Dr. SE Onwu chaired the Onwu Committee, which was responsible for putting an end to the orthography controversy that plagued Igbo literary works. Onwu's contribution to written Igbo is the orthography that we use today. The fact that we have combining dot diacritics and a structured tone marking system as opposed to specialized characters.

FC Ogbalu started the SPILC and created Izugbe. It is basically a mirror of Onitsha province speech and an extension of the legacy of using the Onitsha standard. The Onwu orthography shows up here, because Ogbalu and the SPILC elected to discard their own in-house orthography for the one recommended by the Onwu Committee. When Izugbe was released, it was one of the standards that simply used Onwu orthography.

www.columbia.edu › itc › pritchett
Web results
A history of the Igbo language - Columbia University

I still maintain my earlier stand that Igbo Izugbe is not like the Igbo spoken by Onitsha or Idemmili natives. Igbo Izugbe maintained the earlier form of Ohuhu and Egbu dialects while incorporating many Onitsha/Idemmili dialects.

I sent you a link on that.

Pchidexy:

www.columbia.edu › itc › pritchett
Web results
A history of the Igbo language - Columbia University

I still maintain my earlier stand that Igbo Izugbe is not like the Igbo spoken by Onitsha or Idemmili natives. Igbo Izugbe maintained the earlier form of Ohuhu and Egbu dialects while incorporating many Onitsha/Idemmili dialects.

I sent you a link on that.

If this is still your stance, then I might recommend for you to go back and try to re-read that for comprehension. The only standard that utilized Ohuhu and Owerri was Central. Izugbe is supposed to be wholly artificial. It did not take after Ohuhu and Egbu. The morphology and lexicon of Izugbe would have been drastically different, if it took after Ohuhu and Egbu, believe me (unless you aren't familiar with Ohuhu and Egbu dialects).

Also, some years back here on NL we took a sort of case study on Izugbe and the Onitsha province. A speech given by Achebe in pure Idemmili was translated to Izugbe. We took excerpts of that into other lects and Idemmili was by far much closer to Izugbe then Owerri, Ohuhu, Ngwa, etc.

Also, I just went through the Columbia document. If nothing else, your link only provides further support for my statements. You ended up buttressing my statements as opposed to supporting your own argument. Are you certain you meant to use it?

ChinenyeN:


If this is still your stance, then I might recommend for you to go back and try to re-read that for comprehension. The only standard that utilized Ohuhu and Owerri was Central. Izugbe is supposed to be wholly artificial. It did not take after Ohuhu and Egbu. The morphology and lexicon of Izugbe would have been drastically different, if it took after Ohuhu and Egbu, believe me (unless you aren't familiar with Ohuhu and Egbu dialects).

Also, some years back here on NL we took a sort of case study on Izugbe and the Onitsha province. A speech given by Achebe in pure Idemmili was translated to Izugbe. We took excerpts of that into other lects and Idemmili was by far much closer to Izugbe then Owerri, Ohuhu, Ngwa, etc.

Also, I just went through the Columbia document. If nothing else, your link only provides further support for my statements. You ended up buttressing my statements as opposed to supporting your own argument. Are you certain you meant to use it?

We all agree that Igbo Izugbe is an invented language to ease up the flow of communication amongst different Igbo groups. I never said that it is basically Egbu or Ohuhu dialect. I maintain that both dialects contributed as much as the Onitsha dialect in both morphology and semantics towards making the Igbo Izugbe (Central Igbo). What the SPIL did was to expand the scope of the central Igbo while adding more words and vocabularies from other Igbo areas to make the language much more acceptable to all.

I will give an example:

Eng: What are you doing now
Onitsha: Kedu ife i na eme Kita
Igbo Izugbe: Gini/Kedu Ihe i na eme ugbu a
Ohuhu: Olee ihe i na eme ugbu a

Eng: Nigeria is dead
Onitsha: Nigeria anwurugo
Igbo Izugbe: Nigeria anwuola
Ohuhu: Nigeria anwuola.

So, it is mixed. It is not particularly modeled after Onitsha dialect. Onitsha dialect is prominent only in the Catholic Igbo liturgy and the CMS liturgy also.

We may disagree to agree. I'm not all knowing though. However, having been born and bred in Onitsha, having also studied the Igbo Izugbe from primary school till the end of my secondary school, having been taught by teachers who spoke the archetypical Onitsha dialect, I know for a certain that is quite different from Igbo Izugbe.

I believe I see what you are getting at now. I misunderstood your statements as you stating that Izugbe is the legacy of the prior Central standard. As in Ohuhu and Egbu were used in the creation of Izugbe. My apologies.

Yes, in designing Izugbe, Ogbalu and the SPILC decided to give it a preference for more "Imo" voicing. Izugbe has a preference for /h/ vs /r/, uses the conjugated suffix -[o/a/e]la vs -go, etc. These were all conscious choices Ogbalu and the SPILC made in compromise, mostly because the Methodists (Central) and Anglicans (Union) had made it clear that they would simply not accept CMS's (Onitsha) standard. Without this compromise, the standards controversy would have continued, and the standards controversy is partly what the SPILC aimed to put an end to.

An Anambra structure but an Imo voicing?

iSlayer:
An Anambra structure but an Imo voicing?

If you look at the earlier posts in this thread, you'll see where we discussed Achebe's Idemmili speech and the corresponding Izugbe translation. It should be especially telling when speakers from northern, eastern and southern Igbo all recognize the congruence between Idemmili and Izugbe, minus the "Imo" voicing. By "Imo" voicing, I mean the stereotypical "Imo" sounds and suffixes, minus all aspirations, nasals, and other unique glottal, plosive, fricative, etc. sounds (essentially, anything that makes the various southern and eastern dialects unique).

ChinenyeN:
I believe I see what you are getting at now. I misunderstood your statements as you stating that Izugbe is the legacy of the prior Central standard. As in Ohuhu and Egbu were used in the creation of Izugbe. My apologies.

Yes, in designing Izugbe, Ogbalu and the SPILC decided to give it a preference for more "Imo" voicing. Izugbe has a preference for /h/ vs /r/, uses the conjugated suffix -[o/a/e]la vs -go, etc. These were all conscious choices Ogbalu and the SPILC made in compromise, mostly because the Methodists (Central) and Anglicans (Union) had made it clear that they would simply not accept CMS's (Onitsha) standard. Without this compromise, the standards controversy would have continued, and the standards controversy is partly what the SPILC aimed to put an end to.

Many towns in Anambra use /h/ and /r/ as well. You may think that Onitsha/Idemmili/Omambala dialects are the only dialects in Anambra. Many town in Anambra State still uses what you may call the "Imo Dialect".

I get your point though. Daalu Nwanne!

Obiagu1:


That's quite interesting. I probably do not know Onitsha dialect the way I think I do. There used to be slight difference between Enugu and Onitsha (city) dialects but these days, it's virtually the same only that Onitsha has more slang and flavour that gives is that "swag".



Ndi Agbenu are Anambra people that may include Oji in Enugu while Ndi Wawa are Enugu people, though both terms are archaic now.

Mind you, the whole of Anambra is not agb'enu. We also have the adagbes who make up the omambala area of Oyi, Ayamelum, Anambra East and West, and some parts of awka south

Ceska:


Mind you, the whole of Anambra is not agb'enu. We also have the adagbes who make up the omambala area of Oyi, Ayamelum, Anambra East and West, and some parts of awka south

I believe you meant Awka North?

There are many isu in igbo land so which one are u referring to.