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| Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by Backslider(m): 6:17pm On Nov 26, 2007 |
I want to know from our dear muslim brother which is the real and authentic Hadith so that one can read from. Any Muslim should direct me. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by pilgrim1(f): 7:03pm On Nov 26, 2007 |
Hehe. . . take any one you like!  Muslims have been studying the Hadith in what is called "the science of hadith" for over 1400 years - and they still don't know which is which!I don tell you - take anyone wey you like, before some misroad chap comes to tell you breaking news: the Hadiths are finally LOST! |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by luv2talk(m): 8:03pm On Nov 26, 2007 |
[b] THE MAJOR WORKS OF HADITH LITERATURE. -The Six Accredited Collections and the Muwatta. After numerous collections of Hadith had been made during the third century of Islam six works became recognised as authoritative. Two of them are believed to be completely authentic, namely the Sahih al-Bukhari and the Sahih Muslim. The other four are also highly esteemed but it is allowed by the Muslims that some of the Hadith in them are suspect and may not be genuine. We shall outline these works in more detail shortly but a general reference to them will serve to show what status they enjoy in this field today. The following outline summarises the general Muslim attitude towards these six major works: It does not mean that all the ahadith recorded in these six books are authentic, it means that majority of them are authentic, with exception of the Sahih of Bukhari and that of Muslim in which all are. (Azami, Studies in Hadith Methodology and Literature, p. 105). The importance of these six major collections for the heritage of Islam can hardly be overestimated. They have become highly regarded throughout the Muslim world and are second only to the Qur'an itself as sources of authority for the laws and customs of Islam. The veneration of Muslims extends, in addition to the two Sahihs, also to the above-mentioned four Sunan books. Under the name al-kutub al-sitta, 'the six books', they comprise the canonical hadith literature and as such form the main sources for traditional law. (Goldziber, Muslim Studies, Vol.2, p.237). There is another work, however, which should be mentioned in this context and that is the Muwatta of Imam Malik. It is a group of traditions of chiefly legal import put together by the founder of one of the four major schools of law in Islam. Because it is chiefly a corpus juris rather than a corpus traditionum, a collection of legal traditions rather than a general historical work, a veritable Hadith al-Akham (body of juristic hadith assembled as a foundation for the fiqh, the jurisprudence of Islam), it has not been as highly regarded as the two Sahihs. Its contents are also largely repeated in them and it has therefore been overlooked and is not included with the six major works. The Muwatta may be treated as a good collection of Ahadith in the sense of the legal traditions. Some Muslim authorities like 'Izz al-Din Ibn al-Athir, Ibn 'Abd al-Barr and 'Abd al-Haq of Delhi include it instead of the Sunan of Ibn Maja in the six canonical collections. Of course the majority of them do not count it as one of the six books because almost all the important traditions contained in it are included in the Sahihs of Bukhari and Muslim. (Siddiqi, Hadith Literature, p.13). Furthermore this great jurist of Islam, the Imam Malik did not adopt the same dogmatic approach that his colleague Shafi'i took towards the Sunnah, declaring that the only true sunnah was found in the Hadith and not in the ijma of Muslim scholars, no matter how unanimous it might be, when it could not produce relevant traditions to support it. A Western writer comment's on Malik's Muwatta: Its intention is not to sift and collect the 'healthy' elements of traditions circulating in the Islamic world but to illustrate the law, ritual and religious practice by the ijma recognised in Medinian Islam, by the sunna current in Medina, and to create a theoretical corrective, from the point of view of ijma and sunna, for things still in a state of flux. Inasmuch as the book has anything in common with a collection of traditions it lies in the sunna rather than the hadith. (Goldziher, Muslim Studies, Vol.2, p.198). He adds: "Consideration of the Medinian ijma was so much the predominating point of view for Malik that he does not even hesitate to give it preference when it is in conflict to traditions incorporated as correct in his corpus" (p.199). For Malik the value of the tradition literature lay not in supplying a foundation for the laws of Islam but rather in illustrating the application of the legal maxims obtained through the ijma of the scholars of Islam. To Shafi'i each tradition was a ratio decidendi, the root and foundation on which any question of law was to be based or decided. To Malik the illustrative use of each tradition counted more than anything else. For him each tradition took the form of an obiter dictum, a passing reference which could help to elucidate a legal principle rather than become the authority on which such principles were to be based. Nonetheless, as his Muwatta is one of the earliest collections of traditions and as most of them were approved by Bukhari and Muslim, his work has an important place in the field of Hadith literature studies even to this day. 2. The Sahihs of Bukhari and Muslim. Of all the works of Hadith the Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are regarded as the most authentic and authoritative. Indeed the very word sahih means "accredited". Of these two the collection of Abu Abdallah Muhammad ibn Ismail al-Bukhari has pride of place as the most highly regarded work of Hadith literature. He devoted more than one-fourth of his life to the actual compilation of his work, and at the end produced his epoch-making book which is accepted by most of the traditionists as the most authentic work in Hadith literature, and which is considered by the Muslims in general as an authority next only to the Qur'an. (Siddiqi, Hadith Literature, p.89). Bukhari's complete collection was only recently translated into English for the first time by one Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan of the Islamic University at Medina. His most welcome contribution has increased the English-speaking student's access to the historical records of Islam. The whole collection has been published in an interlinear Arabic-English form in nine volumes. Although Bukhari's work is chiefly a general compilation of all known traditions of Muhammad's life considered to be authentic (it contains 7275 individual hadith, many of which are duplications, selected out of 600,000 allegedly known to him), he also concentrated in many cases on the juristic side of the tradition literature, except that in his case he grouped the traditions under various headings dealing with specific points of Islamic law. In his time the schools of law had been generally established and his objective was to catalogue the traditions he regarded as authentic in relation to their respective topics of jurisprudence. The final work significantly has many headings unsupported by any hadith. He either could not obtain the relevant hadith for these points or, more likely, he sought to demonstrate that there were no known traditions relating to them which he considered authentic. He clearly chose his headings first and thereafter grouped the various traditions under them. It was therefore justly said , the fiqh of Bukhari is in his paragraph headings. This tendency of the book also explains the fact that B. occasionally gives paragraph headings without being able to provide an appropriate hadith. (Goldziher, Muslim Studies, Vol.2, p.217). The other great collector, Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj, also sought not so much to complement the issues at stake in the fiqh, the lslamic jurisprudence, but rather to produce a collection of sound traditions, an authentic record, on which future studies of Hadith could be based. We may therefore deduce that Muslim was not primarily concerned with the practical application of his collection in a particular direction but intended, as he says in his preface, to purify the existing hadith material of all dross: the unreliable and untrustworthy elements which had attached themselves to this material in the course of time. (Goldziher, Muslim Studies, Vol.2, p.227). Like Bukhari he sought chiefly to provide a reference work for authoritative decisions of Muhammad rather than a direct statutory foundation. The legal emphasis and objective of these works nevertheless resulted in each one being considered one of the Musannaf, the collections in which the traditions were grouped under specific topical headings (as opposed to the Musnad works which concentrated on grouping them under their isnads going back to their earliest transmitters). Muslim records most of the hadith found in Bukhari's collection but, whereas the former placed parallel versions of the same tradition under various headings relating to various points of law, Muslim put them all together under their own topical headings. The former made the traditions fit his subject-titles, the latter made his subject-headings fit the subject-matter of the traditions. The principal difference is the absence of the paragraph headings characteristic of Bukhari. Muslim's work is arranged according to Fiqh, but he does not follow his plan so scrupulously: thus, while Bukhari often arranges the same tradition with a different isnad under different paragraphs when it is suitable to support more than one point of law and custom, Muslim places the parallel versions together. (Guillaume, The Traditions of Islam, p.31). While Bukhari's compilation is considered the more reliable of the two, Muslim's arrangement of his material has been recognised as superior, and rightly so. While Bukhari made the traditions in his collection testify to his own schedule of various points of law, Muslim left them to speak for themselves. His work has also recently been translated for the first time into English in a four-volume edition. 3. The Sunan Works of Abu Dawud and Others. The remaining four works are called sunan (the word has the meaning "path" or "way"  because they concentrate on the example of Muhammad's actions and decrees insofar as these provide the ultimate foundation of all Islamic law. The work recognised as the best of these collections is the Sunan of Abu Dawud which contains many of the hadith in the two Sahihs but which also includes traditions not found there. He likewise was a scrupulous collector and although some of his traditions are regarded as weak and suspect, he was aware of the problem and was careful to distinguish between sound and weak hadith in his work. Abu Dawud did his best to deal faithfully with the material at his disposal. Unlike al-Bukhari and Muslim, he includes material which is not very reliable, or even considered actually unsound, but he does not fall to draw attention to it. (Robson, "The Material of Tradition", The Muslim World, Vol.41, p.168). His work has also very recently been published in English (so, incidentally, has the Muwatta of Imam Malik. One can only commend and sincerely appreciate the efforts of Muslim scholars to make the great works of Hadith accessible to the English-speaking world at this time. Hopefully the remaining three Sunan works, which can very easily be published in a few volumes like the other three, will also soon be available in English). Two collections very similar to Abu Dawud's are the Sunan works of at-Tirmithi and an-Nasai. The former is called a Jami ("collection" because it covers not only legal traditions but also, like Bukhari and Muslim, historical and other hadith as well. Nevertheless Tirmithi confined himself to traditions on which the principles of Islamic law had already been based and did not venture to record such as might lead to new interpretations. His collection is therefore primarily a reference work as well. The Sunan of an-Nasai is more comprehensive than the former two insofar as he deals with the legal material available to him. Unlike Tirmithi he did not limit himself to recording individual hadith as a resource work for issues concerning the jurists of his day but sought to catalogue all the variant editions of each hadith known to him as Muslim had done before him. His work accordingly has a place of its own in the heritage of the tradition literature. Al-Nasai's main object was only to establish the texts of traditions and the differences between their various versions - almost all of which he quotes in extenso, instead of only referring to them as Abu Da'ud and al-Tirmidhi had done. (Siddiqi, Hadith Literature, p.113). The last work, the Sunan of Ibn Maja, is regarded as the weakest of all the six major works of Hadith literature and some traditionists prefer the Sunan of ad-Darimi to it. Nonetheless, although a great many authorities have openly declared some of the traditions found in this collection to be forged, it has established itself among the approved works. The other scholars, such as Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi also recorded weak ahadith, but they mostly noted them in their book, but Ibn Maja, even when he recorded a false hadith, went on silently. Therefore a lot of discussion has gone on among scholars about this book to the effect that some other books deserve to be mentioned in Six Principle works instead of that by Ibn Maja. (Azami, Studies in Hadith Methodology and Literature, p. 106). Doubts were maintained longest about Ibn Maja because of the many weak (da'if) traditions which he incorporated into his corpus traditionum. (Goldziher, Muslim Studies, Vol.2, p.240). In the eighth century after Muhammad's death a fine combination of the major hadith found in all six works, the two Sahihs and the four Sunans, was put together by one Shaikh Wali ud-Din and entitled Mishkat ul-Masabih, the "niche of lights . Various editions of this collection have appeared in English and it serves as a most useful guide to practically all the truly relevant hadith preserved in the kutub as-sitta the "six books", though most of the traditions recorded in it are purely juristic. It therefore serves as the Islamic equivalent of the Rabbinical Mishnah in Talmudic Judaism[/b] |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by olabowale(m): 4:44am On Nov 27, 2007 |
You know an authentic hadith by the soundness of its chain. The narrators' characters, vis a truthfulness, trustworthiness, memory capacity, etc. The chain of narrators, starts from the one who heard it from the Prophet, the companion, all the way to the last person, who the hadith recorder got it from. Further, one will judge a hadith by the hadith agreeing with the quality of the character of the blessed prophet (as). Hadith is graded from very sound, sahih to very weak and doubtful, daif. Now you have it. Your thread is of no value. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by olabowale(m): 4:49am On Nov 27, 2007 |
@Pilgrim.1: You need to appear on Comedy centreal. Or should I connect you with David Chappel? Everything is a joke to you. Excessive laughter is a sign lack of faith. The way the people of Noah laugh all the way to failure. Please caution yourself. Take my foolish advice. Laugh in moderation. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by Backslider(m): 5:12pm On Nov 27, 2007 |
Mr Olabowale Please Just point to the correct authentic Tradition I should read. Which one is the right and perfect Hadith. Pls do all you can to help me. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by olabowale(m): 5:27pm On Nov 27, 2007 |
@Backslider: Omo ya. When you read the Qur'an, and you cross referrence a hadith with it using the elements that I provided in my previous post, you will know if it is authentic as in chain, etc Sahih, or if it is daif, weak unsound, very unlikely. For example, if you find any hadith that says do not make salah, if you are conscious, for example, then you definately know that it is daif. Because, after belief in the Oneness of God, what is next is Salah, because, you have it everyday, many times over. And it is the first sign to point to people that this is a muslim or not. I do not intend to dwell on this for too much. If you are not a muslim, the authenticity of any hadith will not benefit you, anyhow. Come back to Islam first and we can discuss it, again. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by Backslider(m): 3:41pm On Nov 28, 2007 |
Ok bros How will you help me back when you cant tell me the real authentic Hadith. ARE YOU SAYING THERE ARE MANY FALSE HADITH? PLEASE WHICH ONE IS THE REAL ONE? A RELIGION WITH TRADITION IS VAIN. THE HADITH EXPLAINS THE TRADITION WHICH ONE IS RIGHT. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by combatant: 8:14pm On Nov 28, 2007 |
@Backslider Can you provide evidence to the rubbish you posted? |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by olabowale(m): 10:42pm On Nov 28, 2007 |
@Backslider: Isra wa Miraj, took place in just some part of one Night! Now you come to ask me to guide you to each and everyone of the hadith that will cover at least 23years, in which this Isra wa Miraj occurred? Please be reasonable. If you have an agenda, which you are yet to tell us, please just say it now. Again your heart will guide you to the correct hadith if you have a pure heart. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by babs787(m): 12:47pm On Nov 29, 2007 |
@Backslider Ok bros How will you help me back when you can't tell me the real authentic Hadith. It has been a long time I replied you. How body and I do hope you are cool. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by olabowale(m): 12:51pm On Nov 29, 2007 |
@Backslider: For starter, go and study Hadith Qulsi. Then come back for more instruction. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by Backslider(m): 4:22pm On Dec 02, 2007 |
@Olabowale You have now said I should go straightway and read Hadith Qulsi does that mean that is the one that is correct? Reason is that I dont want to be confused. You know Allah is Logically and Morally perfect. So please confirm this again. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by Backslider(m): 4:23pm On Dec 02, 2007 |
@ babs787 I am Alive and Good. God Bless you |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by Backslider(m): 4:28pm On Dec 02, 2007 |
@combatant Please don't be angry. but there are hadith in Islam that are not taken by the Islamic scholars. If you are not in the know please just read few Hadith yourself and come back so that you will clear my rubbish. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by Nobody: 4:35pm On Dec 02, 2007 |
olabowale: the hypocrites will quote the bible readily, some are even ready to produce more than 2 pages of nothing but bible quotes. . . talk about the quran or hadith and they start telling you to "go and read". They know you wont bother with such incoherent nonsense. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by olabowale(m): 7:13pm On Dec 02, 2007 |
@Backslider: Which hadith of a particular subject matter bothers you so much? Please present so that we can talk about it. Quote that specific Hadith and the full gamut that have on it for discussion. I will like the one whose mouth should be packed with mud start eating the mud, even starting from now! |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by Nobody: 7:18pm On Dec 02, 2007 |
olabowale: See alhaji's idea of "tolerance" . . . Beneath the veneer of pretended niceness is naught but mohammed's true nature, allah's spirit of death and violence. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by pilgrim1(f): 7:30pm On Dec 02, 2007 |
combatant: What rubbish? Is it not Muslims that declare that some of the Hadiths are fabricated and others cannot be trusted? When it is convenient to pepper Muhammad's career, then the Hadiths are most appealing to quote by Muslims. When the grey areas are pointed out, you no longer trust the same Hadiths! After more than 1400 years of "science of hadith", Muslims are still groping in the dark wondering and scratching their heads about which Hadiths are super, and which ones are your death-knell! Una try! |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by pilgrim1(f): 7:50pm On Dec 02, 2007 |
olabowale: "Excessive laughter", you said? No disrespect to you; but I think if your advice holds any substance, then you really should be concerned about why Muhammad was laughing more than you see in my posts until his molars were exposed! He laughed when he misled his companions and also laughed even when he cursed one of the slave-girls of one of his wives! Here are a few samples of Muhammad's excessive laughter: (I have quoted the hadiths in part as they are too long for my replies): [list] (1) Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 0361: . . .Ibn Mas'ud laughed and asked (the hearers): Why don't you ask me what I am laughing at. They (then) said: Why do you laugh? He said: It is in this way that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) laughed. They (the companions of the Holy Prophet) asked: Why do you laugh. Messenger of Allah? He said: On account of the laugh of the Lord of the universe. . (2) Sahih Muslim, Book 6, Number 2457: He (the Holy Prophet) said: Give these (dates) in charity. He (the man) said: Am I to give to one who is poorer than I? There is no family poorer than mine between the two lava plains of Medina. The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) laughed so that his molar teeth became visible and said: Go and give it to your family to eat. (3) Sahih Muslim, Book 19, Number 4393: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: (All right) make a raid in the morning. They did so. and were wounded (with the arrows showered upon them). So the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: We shall depart tomorrow. (The narrator says): (Now) this (announcement) pleased them, and the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) laughed at (their waywardness). (4) Sahih Muslim, Book 19, Number 4450: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) had captured those camels and everything else I had captured and all the lances and mantles I had snatched from the polytheists and Bilal had slaughtered a she-camel from the camels I had seized from the people, and was roasting its liver and hump for the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). I said: Messenger of Allah, let me select from our people one hundred men and I will follow the marauders and I will finish them all so that nobody is left to convey the news (of their destruction to their people). (At these words of mine), the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) laughed so much that his molar teeth could be seen in the light of the fire, and he said: Salama, do you think you can do this? (5) Sahih Muslim, Book 31, Number 5932: 'Amir b. Sa'd reported oLi the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) gathered for him on the Day of Uhud his parents when a polytheist had set fire to (i. e. attacked fiercely) the Muslims. Thereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to him: (Sa'd), shoot an arrow, (Sa'd), may my mother and father be taken as ransom for you. I drew an arrow and I shot a featherless arrow at him aiming his side that lie fell down and his private parts were exposed. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed that I saw his front teeth.[/list] When Muhammad laughed and exposed his molars, was that a sign of "a lack of faith"? Do you Muslims ever take time to busy yourselves studying your own sad religion before trying to correct others? If laughing is a 'sign of lack of faith', then I go laugh even more - because I don't have faith in the religion that Muhammad came to shakara the Arabs! Afterall, the Qur'an that Muhammad produced boldly says that Muhammad's revelations are "certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief" (Sura 5:64). Why should I want to put my faith in something that is most certainly meant to "increase" disbelief?!? Me, I go continue to laugh as long as you Muslims continue to make me laugh with your practical jokes (and assertive lies)! |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by Nobody: 7:55pm On Dec 02, 2007 |
@ pilgrim.1, nwam i don laugh so tey i no get faith again!  So mohammed laughed on behalf of his lord? these muslims sef! Too much time quoting the bible they forget the read their own quran and hadith. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by Ndipe(m): 2:09am On Dec 03, 2007 |
Pilgrim, no offence, were you once a muslim? |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by Nobody: 11:56am On Dec 03, 2007 |
@poster answering of your post. The Glorious Qur’an mentions in several verses, “Obey Allah and obey His Messenger”. A true Muslim should only follow the Glorious Qur’an and the Sahih Hadith. He can agree with the views of any scholar as long as they conform to the teachings of the Qur’an and Sahih Hadith. If such views go against the Word of Allah, or the Sunnah of His Prophet, then they carry no weight, regardless of how learned the scholar might be. A true Muslim will not follow any ruling or teaching of any great scholar of Islam if that particular ruling or teaching contradicts the Qur’an and Saheeh Hadith. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by pilgrim1(f): 4:49pm On Dec 14, 2007 |
Ndipe: @Ndipe, How body? Actually, I was a Muslim. My conversion to Christianity was slow; and only by God's grace were my eyes opened to the issues I had denied while refusing to read the Bible for myself (typical Muslim mindset)! Glory to Jesus. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by pilgrim1(f): 4:51pm On Dec 14, 2007 |
@mdsocks, mdsocks: We know - for example: "He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah" (Qur'an 4 v 80). The problem here is twofold: [list](a) Islam teaches that it is wrong to associate anyone with 'Allah' (for that is shirk!), and that is exactly what is happening in that verse, by making Muhammad a partner in association with obedience to 'Allah'. One may say that: "Obedience to 'Allah' = obedience to Muhammad". Does the Qur'an not rather teach that Muslims are to take 'Allah ALONE' (Sura 73:9 - "there is no God save Him; so choose thou Him alone for thy defender" ? The word "defender" ('Wali' - Hilali-Khan) is also rendered as "protector", "guardian", or "helper" by several other translators (e.g., Sura 2:107 - Pickthall, Yusuf Ali, Sher Ali, Sale, etc).However, when we turn to the Sahih hadiths, we find indeed that Muhammad was regarded on the same platform with Allah - which is nothing short of his acting as an "associate", or "partner". Let's see a few of those Sahih hadiths: Sahih Bukhari, Book 31, Num. 6120: Abu Ayyub reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The tribes of Ansar, Muzaina and Juhaina and Ghifar and Ashja' and those from Banu 'Abdullah, they are my friends amongst the people and Allah and His Messenger are their protectors. Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Book 56, Num. 707: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The tribe of Quraish, the Ansar, the (people of the tribe of) Julhaina, Muzaina, Aslam, Ashja', and Ghifar are my disciples and have no protectors except Allah and His Apostle." Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Book 56, Num. 715: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "The tribes of Quraish, Al-Ansar, Juhaina, Muzaina, Aslam, Ghifar and Ashja' are my helpers, and they have no protector (i.e. Master) except Allah and His Apostle."[/list] Notice that in the last hadith quoted, BOTH 'Allah' and Muhammad are the sole 'protector(s)' - which is clearly explicated in parenthesis as MASTER! I have often pointed the fact that in early Islam, Muslims have referred to Muhammad as "Lord" - and no Muslim has come forward to deny the fact. One of these days, when the denial is made, then I will post the relevenat references for all to see! For now, I just wanted to leave you a small quote to show that within the Hadiths ("Sahih" - authentic and undeniable), Muhammad is referred together with 'Allah' as "protector" - that is, MASTER! [list](b) There are issues which 'Allah' never commanded and which cannot be found in the Qur'an - and yet, Muhammad commanded such things among Muslims. The problem there is that one is forced to ask if Muhammad came to preach himself or he came preaching 'Allah' alone?[/list] The real issue here is this: WHO actually is the one who gave Muslims more commandments to obey - 'Allah' or Muhammad? If it so happens that Muhammad gave much more commandments than 'Allah' did, does it not clearly point out the fact that one is subordinate to the other? |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by pilgrim1(f): 4:51pm On Dec 14, 2007 |
mdsocks: Good to know. A 'true' Muslim is one who recognizes that the Qur'an cannot survive on its own until it begs help from the Hadiths! mdsocks: Two things here: (a) Supposing Muhammad's teaching in the Sahih (or, "Saheeh" Hadiths runs contrary to what is taught in the Qur'an, what would you do? Remember that a "Sahih" hadith is regarded as "authentic" and cannot be denied! So, if Muhammad's Sunnah contradicts itself as well as contradicts the Qur'an, what would you say?(b) what happens if the Muslim scholar tries to teach what is generally accepted by Muslims the world over - and yet has no Qur'anic or hadith foundation? I remember in another thread where stranger26 had reposted an article on Sufism in which the original authors made the point that some issues in Islamic jurisprudence are not derived either from the Qur'an nor from the Hadiths - and yet they are regarded as authentic Muslim tenets! In such instances, what then would you say, mdsocks? mdsocks: Yada-yada! That may be your own personal opinion - but we know that Muslims have been following practices contrary to the Sahih Hadiths and the Qur'an - and yet these Muslims are regarded as "true Muslims". What about the idolatry of Muslims building mosques around the graves of their prophets? I asked a question sometime ago as to whether 'Allah' is also ready to fight and curse Muslims in the same way as Muhammad cursed Jews and Christians on the same allegations? |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by pilgrim1(f): 4:52pm On Dec 14, 2007 |
davidylan: @davidylan, Me, I don also laugh tire I no get strength again to read the Muslim jokes on this Forum. |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by Nobody: 6:10pm On Dec 14, 2007 |
Simple explanation. The Quran says don't associate partners with Allah. The stated verses above are not that which makes muhammad an equal of God. It states that he is given the power to lead us and not for us to worship him. I can see a mind play here. You might define a phenomenom in two ways , and i can say you are defining it the wrong way. Thats why you can see that no muslim worships muhammad. There's the difference between "Obey" and "Worship" For example: If a town carrier calls on the people of a village to obey what the King as sent him to inform them, is it the Town courier that they are obeying? |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by pilgrim1(f): 6:45pm On Dec 14, 2007 |
@mdsocks, mdsocks: (1) What's the difference between "MASTER" and "MASTER"?!? pilgrim.1: And then this: (2) The real issue here is this: WHO actually is the one who gave Muslims more commandments to obey - 'Allah' or Muhammad? |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by olabowale(m): 9:51pm On Dec 14, 2007 |
@Pilgrim.1: Have you heard the yoruba idiom, 'Oga mi loga?' Allah is Oga of my ogas: Muhammad, Yisa, Yahya, Zakariyya, Dawuda, Solomoni, Musa. Haruna, Salihu, Yakubu, Isiaka, Nuhu, Yunusa, Yusufu, Ibrahima,titi de Adama. Where is your confusion, Pilgrim? I have a lot of laughter in stock at your expense! Muhammad prayed to Allah. All Muslims are supposed to pray to Allah in the same way Muhammad prayed! Muhammad fasted in obedience to the commandment of Allah. All Muslims are to do the the same. Muhammad gave charity of the two type under the commandment of Allah, Muslims are to do just that. Muhammad made Hajj and Umrah under the commandment of Allah, Muslims are doing that presently. Muhammad declared that there is no god to be worshipped, thereby negating all sorts of worship, idols style of the pagan Arabs, the 3 in 1 of the Christians, the tribal god of the Children of Israel, and that the Only God to be worshipped is Allah, the Almighty. (Allah, the irresistible, everliving, never tired, never slumbered, alway complete, full of power, able to govern all affairs, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc!) How is Muhammad equal to Allah, Ms. Pilgrim? Je ka gbo o. La ye wa o. Sisis 9ja! (I could be nutty sometimes!) |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by seyibrown(f): 9:36pm On Nov 10, 2010 |
bookmarked |
| Re: Cross Roads: Which Is The Authentic Hadith Of The Prophet? by OLAADEGBU(m): 8:55am On Nov 11, 2010 |
seyibrown: Thanks for bringing up this thread. Now we know that they worship two Masters. |
Ask Satan To Appear If He Trully Exist Ogaga4love / The Metamorphosis Of Pilgrim 1 / I'm Scared Of Being A Born Again,please Help
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