Romans 2:7 - To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

1 Corinthians 15:53 - For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 - So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Timothy 1:17 - Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Timothy 6:16 - Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

2 Timothy 1:10 - But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality [/b]to light through the gospel:


From the verses above, this is proof that ONLY those who are born again will ONE DAY experience immortality. This is not one of our attributes as beings today.

So therefore the damned will remain Mortal, which means they are capable of experiencing death , the second death.

The Soul that sinneth shall die, not live !!

The wages of sin for the mortal soul is death !!!

Why do people keep erroneously insisting , contrary to scripture that even the souls of the damned will be immortalised forever in the lake of fire ?

At the moment ONLY GOD has immortality.

In the lake of fire all mortal unrepentant and damned souls will be devoured by the fire of God and experience the second death which is total destruction from the presence of the Lord.

"They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power" - [b]2 Thessalonians 1:9

Frosbel, esteemed friend:
I will not answer you with biblical passages, but (according to my personality) using common sense and analysis.
What the dictionary says about the word "SOUL"?:
f. In some religions and cultures, spiritual and immortal substance of humans.

In my humble opinion, simply look up the word in the dictionary, we get an answer that does not deserve nor allow any further discussion.

Do not you think?

A really interesting thread.
I hope I have answered live up to your expectations.

A respectful greeting.

Ptolomeus: Frosbel, esteemed friend:
I will not answer you with biblical passages, but (according to my personality) using common sense and analysis.
What the dictionary says about the word "SOUL"?:
f. In some religions and cultures, spiritual and immortal substance of humans.

In my humble opinion, simply look up the word in the dictionary, we get an answer that does not deserve nor allow any further discussion.

Do not you think?

A really interesting thread.
I hope I have answered live up to your expectations.

A respectful greeting.

Thank you for your kind and gentle answer

In dictionary terms the definition suffices, but with with biblical application, the distinction is clear about who has and who does not have immortality.

Otherwise Paul will not have made the statement ' mortality will be swallowed up in immortality '.

The Devil's lies was that the soul that sins will not die, whereas God said the soul that sins will die. It's God's word against the devils.

1 Peter 1:23 - You have been regenerated (born again), not from a mortal origin ( seed, sperm), but from one that is immortal by the ever living and lasting Word of God.

1 Corinthians 1:29 - So that no mortal man should [have pretense for glorying and] boast in the presence of God.

We are mortal beings , meaning that we are capable of dying.

Christ took on mortality for our sakes but because he was born of immortality, he broke the curse of our mortality caused by Sin and rose from the dead.

Indeed he said I lay my life down and am able to take it back again which he did.

All mortals who do not take the cloak of immortality through the first resurrection will face the second resurrection which leads to eternal or the second death.

Furthermore Jesus died to destroy Sin and Death , all the works of the devil. Jesus did not come to deliver us from everlasting torture, it is nowhere mentioned in the bible.

All mortal man will and must die but if we believe in Jesus Christ and repent from our sins, we are delievered from death


"But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him." - Acts 2:24

"and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death." - Hebrews 2:15

Dearest friend:

I do not want to get into polemics, but a language defines a word, I understand that it is unnecessary to prove by other means meaning.
If we say that man is a human being, it is redundant to present more evidence.
It is absurd that Paul, Peter, or whoever, would say something different in the Bible.
Regardless of our religious position, we all know that the definition of "soul" is immortal. There can be no two opinions about it.
Now you begin to give examples of ""mortals" ... I do not understand the relationship of that, with the immortality of the soul.
I hope not to be distorting the thread.

Please accept my greatest respect.

how do i know that a soul is not immortal. simple

does a soul have a beginning?

yes, it begins at birth.

therefore, it must have an end, at death.

you can only say that a soul is immortal (has no end) if it has no beginning

immortality of soul is imported to christianity from the prevalent roman mythologies of those days


but by the way can somebody gives a clear definition of what a soul is.

cyrexx:
does a soul have a beginning?

yes, it begins at birth.

therefore, it must have an end, at death.

In Nairaland one never fails to surprise.
Dear friend, let's look at the absurdity this article:

There is a statistic about the kind of death of souls most common ,
and include the first death from traffic accidents; second place, the crimes of passion..Third places, lung cancer caused by smoking.

@frosbel

From the verses above, this is proof that ONLY those who are born again will ONE DAY experience immortality. This is not one of our attributes as beings today.

So therefore the damned will remain Mortal, which means they are capable of experiencing death , the second death.

The Soul that sinneth shall die, not live !!

The wages of sin for the mortal soul is death !!!

Why do people keep erroneously insisting , contrary to scripture that even the souls of the damned will be immortalised forever in the lake of fire ?

At the moment ONLY GOD has immortality.

In the lake of fire all mortal unrepentant and damned souls will be devoured by the fire of God and experience the second death which is total destruction from the presence of the Lord.

"They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power" - 2 Thessalonians 1:9

Anything that does not have God's life(i.e the life we receive when we get born again) is considered dead in spiritual parlance.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life: and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
Having eternal life means you will 'live forever' with God. Anything outside God is no life in spiritual parlance, even if the person thinks he/she is enjoying life.
1Timothy 5:6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

It is in this perspective that Jesus spoke when He made statements like
John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
The person of course will die physically in our little understanding, although to Jesus, the believer simply sleeps because he is not separated from God but his spirit is received by God.

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Image123: @frosbel
Anything that does not have God's life(i.e the life we receive when we get born again) is considered dead in spiritual parlance.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life: and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
Having eternal life means you will 'live forever' with God. Anything outside God is no life in spiritual parlance, even if the person thinks he/she is enjoying life.
1Timothy 5:6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

Anyone who does not have eternal life, has a sentence of death on their heads except they repent and are born of the Spirit of GOD.

It is in this perspective that Jesus spoke when He made statements like
John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

He will never see death simply means he will not experience the second death which is everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord.

"They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power" - 2 Thessalonians 1:9

Isaiah 1:28 But rebels and sinners will both be broken, and those who forsake the LORD will perish

"Then you will trample down the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things," says the LORD Almighty." - Malachi 4:3

Isaiah 66:24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.

The person of course will die physically in our little understanding, although to Jesus, the believer simply sleeps because he is not separated from God but his spirit is received by God

All who die are sleeping awaiting for the last day , it's in the bible.

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." - Daniel 12:2

John 5:28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice

John 11:24 Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Yes and Amen to that.

All mortal souls who believe in Christ will not taste the second death , they will be immortalized forever and ever.

All mortal souls that are void of the life of God will and must DIE - QED.

the soul is immortal only as far as the second death. those who dont make it past that stage will have their souls destroyed. those who make it past that stage will have immortality.

matthew 10 vs 28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

buzugee: the soul is immortal only as far as the second death. those who dont make it past that stage will have their souls destroyed. those who make it past that stage will have immortality.

matthew 10 vs 28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

The soul is mortal not immortal.

"When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." - 1 Corinthians 15:54

frosbel:

Spot on !!

Coming from a 'heretic' I am surprised

i wouldnt quite call myself a heretic but hey the name sounds good so why not eh ? you know us nigerians, the more title we have the better. from henceforth i am known as heretic buzugee

i see you changed your response so let me add that technically the soul is mortal. however if you make it past the second death then it becomes immortal. hope that makes sense.

buzugee: i wouldnt quite call myself a heretic but hey the name sounds good so why not eh ? you know us nigerians, the more title we have the better. from henceforth i am known as heretic buzugee

You beat me to it, I was joking.

See my amended update below.


The soul is mortal not immortal.

"When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." - 1 Corinthians 15:54

Romans 2:7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life

frosbel:

You beat me to it, I was joking.

See my amended update below.


The soul is mortal not immortal.

"When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." - 1 Corinthians 15:54

Romans 2:7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life

i amended my response too. it is mortal because it can be destroyed. but becomes immortal after the second death because then it will never be destroyed. your spirit lives forever after that

buzugee: i amended my response too. it is mortal because it can be destroyed. but becomes immortal after the second death because then it will never be destroyed. your spirit lives forever after that

Only God has immortality, the mortal soul shall die not live forever , it's in the bible.

"who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen." - 1 Timothy 6:16

immortality is for those who do not taste of the second death , they are the saints , who will receive the gift of immortality for their endurance to the very end.

Thank you

frosbel:

Only God has immortality, the mortal soul shall die not live forever , it's in the bible.

"who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen." - 1 Timothy 6:16

immortality is for those who do not taste of the second death , they are the saints , who will receive the gift of immortality for their endurance to the very end.

Thank you

we are saying the same exact thing Frosbel. Happy weekend Sir

buzugee: we are saying the same exact thing Frosbel. Happy weekend Sir

same to you.

good night

Isaiah 66:24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.
How did you manage to underline the phrase "dead bodies" without noting that it said BODIES, not souls or spirits?

All who die are sleeping awaiting for the last day , it's in the bible.

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." - Daniel 12:2

The word "sleep" used here is different from the sense in which i refer, if you have the aramaic or is it Torah we call it. It's even a different word also translated sleep as Dan 2:1 And in the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams, wherewith his spirit was troubled, and his sleep broke from him.
The former sleep is of lying on the floor like anything can lie on the flooor, living and non-living. The latter sleep is what i referred to that believers are considered to do when they die.

Image123: Isaiah 66:24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.
How did you manage to underline the phrase "dead bodies" without noting that it said BODIES, not souls or spirits?

hmm, so they will look at the bodies while the souls are somewhere in the universe boiling , right

Brother, it is not so, these are those who rebelled against God and their entire being, soul and body was destroyed in the fire.

God is making all things new , after all evil is destroyed including Satan, there will be a new heaven and new earth where ONLY righeousness dwells, death will be swallowed up in victory, as such there will be no more death , no more pain and no more crying.

Praise the GOD of heaven and earth, our creator and the best there is ever, his name is wonderful , mighty , judge of the whole earth, everlasting father, we praise his name from everlasting to everlasting.

The word "sleep" used here is different from the sense in which i refer, if you have the aramaic or is it Torah we call it. It's even a different word also translated sleep as Dan 2:1 And in the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams, wherewith his spirit was troubled, and his sleep broke from him.

no, sleep means death as Christ mentioned in the following scripture :

" he said, "Go away. The girl is not dead but asleep." But they laughed at him.After the crowd was put outside, however, Jesus went in and took the girl by the hand, and she stood up!" - Matthew 9:24

By the way , how come we never heard of any visions of hell and heaven in the bible, new testament , that is ??

The former sleep is of lying on the floor like anything can lie on the flooor, living and non-living. The latter sleep is what i referred to that believers are considered to do when they die.

sleep is for all when they die, both wicked and righteous. The distinguishing factor is what happens to then on the day of resurrection

FASCINATING.
Something defined by the dictionary as immortal, turns out to be deadly because Frosbel giving four biblical passages out of context so says ...
Great wisdom!
A perfect explanation to understand why Africa does not stop its development and continues estancadaq in discussions of this kind.

After this, as I have no doubt: the soul is mortal, but is immortal ...
Something really transcendent.

I leave some biblical passages (unnecessary):
Matthew 10:28. Do not fear those who kill the body but can not kill the soul, but rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 16:19 to 31

Acts 20:10 Paul then went down, bent over him, and after him in her arms, said: "Do not be alarmed, for his soul is in it. When the soul leaves his body, the body dies, this is the case of Eutychus who fell from a third floor window and yet the young man died because the Apostle Paul prophesied that his soul was still there.

Jesus said, "Do not fear those who can only kill the body but rather fear that you can lose your soul in hell" . "Whoever believes in Me will live even if he dies, he who believes in Me shall never die"
With these words Jesus confirms the thought that Jews had the soul would live after death




My respects.

Ptolomeus: FASCINATING.
Something defined by the dictionary as immortal, turns out to be deadly because Frosbel giving four biblical passages out of context so says ...
Great wisdom!

The dictionary definition of immortal is to live forever.

At this moment in time, sinners do not live forever, they have been chased away from the 'garden of Eden' , and forfeited the right to live forever , just like God does, by barring them access to the tree of life.


The Soul that sins shall die says the bible, and the soul that is saved shall live forever, i.e become immortal.

A perfect explanation to understand why Africa does not stop its development and continues estancadaq in discussions of this kind.

you lost me here !!

After this, as I have no doubt: the soul is mortal, but is immortal .

The soul is man himself and the bible calls him mortal, not immortal.

"1 Corinthians 15:54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

I leave some biblical passages (unnecessary):
Matthew 10:28. Do not fear those who kill the body but can not kill the soul, but rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

in other words who can kill both body and soul in the fire !!

Acts 20:10 Paul then went down, bent over him, and after him in her arms, said: "Do not be alarmed, for his soul is in it. When the soul leaves his body, the body dies, this is the case of Eutychus who fell from a third floor window and yet the young man died because the Apostle Paul prophesied that his soul was still there.

Okay you deliberately left our vs 9.

"And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him."

It is the breath of GOD that makes us a living soul, this man still had life, not sure how that qualifies as immortal.

Again immortal does not mean alive, it means to have the ability to live forever !

Jesus said, "Do not fear those who can only kill the body but rather fear that you can lose your soul in hell" . "Whoever believes in Me will live even if he dies, he who believes in Me shall never die"

So how does one lose his soul, tell me,

You cannot have what you have lost , right !!

With these words Jesus confirms the thought that Jews had the soul would live after death

Fa fa fa foul !!

My respects.

God blessings bro.

frosbel:
The dictionary definition of immortal is to live forever.

I do not want to dwell.
Not necessary. Seun says you:
"Live Forever" implies the possibility of death?
Excuse me .... but instead of so many biblical quotations, it would be good to add a drop of rationalism to the analysis ...
If anything lives forever because they do not die.
Whatever you may say Abraham and Isaac, in his moments of non-adultery.
You are contradicting yourself.
Do not see aggression in my words, but I understand it is difficult to reconcile rationalism with fanaticism.
You use biblical passages out of context ... and into contradictions.
Explain how you kill a soul ... without going into metaphors out of context.
Fros ... I ask only a moment of clarity and consistency.
Common sense!