Someone has mentioned in another post, that there are things we cannot explain and therefore ought not to question ISLAM for example and it's fundamental principles.

I say Nay !!

In the Bible , God actually calls us to reason , to think, to reflect on his deep truths and make up our minds. God cannot give us a brain and expect us to disengage it when discussing religion.

To suggest that we should take a blind leap of faith without any mental assessment of reason is just wrong !!

Faith comes in , when we are convinced beyond all doubt that God exists and we diligently seek him. Faith then continues to believe that God is true and what he has promised he will deliver.

Therefore we must question our belief systems in the light of morality, logic and of course SCRIPTURE.

"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool." - Isaiah 1:18

Isaiah 41:21 "Present your case," says the LORD. "Set forth your arguments," says Jacob's King.

Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty? They are higher than the heavens - what can you do? They are deeper than the depths Sheol - what can you know? (Job 11:7,8 ).

And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures (Acts 17:2).

He went to the synagogues every Sabbath to persuade the people.

And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks[b] (Acts 18:4).[/b]

frosbel: Someone has mentioned in another post, that there are things we cannot explain and therefore ought not to question ISLAM for example and it's fundamental principles.

I say Nay !!

Excellent so we're in agreement on this point.

frosbel:
In the Bible , God actually calls us to reason , to think, to reflect on his deep truths and make up our minds. God cannot give us a brain and expect us to disengage it when discussing religion.

To suggest that we should take a blind leap of faith without any mental assessment of reason is just wrong !!

Good. Good.

frosbel:
Faith comes in , when we are convinced beyond all doubt that God exists and we diligently seek him. Faith then continues to believe that God is true and what he has promised he will deliver.

Huh? How can you be convinced beyond all doubt that God exists? Doing that means that there are certain things that you cannot question. That would take a blind leap of faith which is what you just objected to above.

frosbel:
Therefore we must question our belief systems in the light of morality, logic and of course SCRIPTURE.

"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool." - Isaiah 1:18

Isaiah 41:21 "Present your case," says the LORD. "Set forth your arguments," says Jacob's King.

Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty? They are higher than the heavens - what can you do? They are deeper than the depths Sheol - what can you know? (Job 11:7,8 ).

And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures (Acts 17:2).

He went to the synagogues every Sabbath to persuade the people.

And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks[b] (Acts 18:4).[/b]

I don't think the Christian Bible is a good source of morality or logical reasoning especially given what we've discovered so far. If you disagree, we can start looking through the Bible for examples of where it fails morally and logically.

@ frosbel

isnt it funny that you examine and logically challenge another religious faith but when it comes to your own faith, you decide to turn a blind eye to all illogicalities and incoherencies that are very glaring in the bible.

very funny and myopic indeed.

funny thread.....

Great effort frosbel! Now we can discuss.

1. The usefulness of faith

2. The validity of the authority of the bible

3. The validity of Christianity as the one and true religion.

thehomer:
Huh? How can you be convinced beyond all doubt that God exists? Doing that means that there are certain things that you cannot question. That would take a blind leap of faith which is what you just objected to above.

I had a once in a life time spiritual encounter while an undergraduate at UI, something which happened instantaneously , I cannot describe the overwhelming joy and peace that came upon me, it was as if a great burden had been lifted , this was a while back.

Now I agree people do have varying degrees of experiences, mine had no weird manifestation, just a love for God and a deep thirst for his word and indescribable joy.

What is quite funny, at the time I was a poser, a drinker and quite literally a lover of fine women , cigar, cigarettes and of course wine.

All these desires died [/b]on the same day I got born again and I aint joking.


So it was not a blind leap of faith.

I don't think the[b] Christian Bible is a good source of morality or logical reasoning especially given what we've discovered so far. If you disagree, we can start looking through the Bible for examples of where it fails morally and logically.

Please go ahead and quote verses of scripture that are immoral and not worth the paper they are written on, I will be much obliged to help expatiate on the implications of those scripture.

thanks.

cyrexx: @ frosbel

isnt it funny that you examine and logically challenge another religious faith but when it comes to your own faith, you decide to turn a blind eye to all illogicalities and incoherencies that are very glaring in the bible.

Bring them here and let me educate you , I mean it , just for you bro

very funny and myopic indeed.

Not a fair comment, but I let it pass !!

Kay 17: Great effort frosbel! Now we can discuss.

1. The usefulness of faith

2. The validity of the authority of the bible

3. The validity of Christianity as the one and true religion.

Indeed !

frosbel:

I had a once in a life time spiritual encounter while an undergraduate at UI, something which happened instantaneously , I cannot describe the overwhelming joy and peace that came upon me, it was as if a great burden had been lifted , this was a while back.

Now I agree people do have varying degrees of experiences, mine had no weird manifestation, just a love for God and a deep thirst for his word and indescribable joy.

What is quite funny, at the time I was a poser, a drinker and quite literally a lover of fine women , cigar, cigarettes and of course wine.

All these desires [b]died [/b]on the same day I got born again and I aint joking.

You agree that others outside of Christianity can have such experiences without becoming Christians yet you decided to become a Christian. If you had such an experience while you were in Tibet surrounded by Buddhists, would you have become a Buddhist?

frosbel:
So it was not a blind leap of faith.

Your answer to my question above would help you in deciding whether or not it was a blind leap of faith.

frosbel:
Please go ahead and quote verses of scripture that are immoral and not worth the paper they are written on, I will be much obliged to help expatiate on the implications of those scripture.

thanks.

Okay. See the following.
Numbers 31:30-47 - immoral.
Ephesians 6:5 - immoral.

Genesis 6 - 8 illogical reasoning.
Jonah 1:17 illogical reasoning.

Good, at least now you are half way there.
Now, all you need to do is acknowledge that the words reason and religon do not not go together.
Or are you incapable of judging christianity the same way that you judge islam or other religons.

frosbel:

I had a once in a life time spiritual encounter while an undergraduate at UI, something which happened instantaneously , I cannot describe the overwhelming joy and peace that came upon me, it was as if a great burden had been lifted , this was a while back.

Now I agree people do have varying degrees of experiences, mine had no weird manifestation, just a love for God and a deep thirst for his word and indescribable joy.

What is quite funny, at the time I was a poser, a drinker and quite literally a lover of fine women , cigar, cigarettes and of course wine.

All these desires [b]died [/b]on the same day I got born again and I aint joking.


So it was not a blind leap of faith.
thanks.

Wrong, it certainly was a blind leap of faith.