LordReed:


I put "suicide by cop" in parentheses because it is a paraphrasing of the tale. Suicide by cop is when a person wants to die but instead of dying by their own hand, they provoke the authorities to kill them by manipulating the circumstances to force the hand of the authorities. Sure there were no cops in the days in which the story is set but soldiers where effectively doubling as a civil law enforcement. [b]Jesus supposedly died by the hand of the soldiers after manipulating events to force that conclusion. [/b]That is essentially "suicide by cop".

Okay.

Can you kindly explain how he manipulate the events and control the rulers and all audience of his days to do this?

As he could work through the circumstances of humanity to do this. I will really love to see your defence on this.

kingxsamz:


Is Jesus not God again?

You didnt answer the question Sir,

We arent speaking about Jesus is God here. I am addressing your statement below.

kingxsamz: An all powerful god killing itself in order to correct its mistakes. This story is wonderful.

I am sure you didnt school in Babylon, where they lack zeal to read/study but have mouth to speak what they never know or read before.

So, where did you see the bolded from? Kindly help out.

hupernikao:


Okay.

Can you kindly explain how he manipulate the events and control the rulers and all audience of his days to do this?

As he could work through the circumstances of humanity to do this. I will really love to see your defence on this.

First off, he knew he was going to die, according to the tale he knew before he was born.

Revelation 13:8
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Secondly, he gave up his own life according to the tale.

Hebrews 9:26
He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Next he had to fulfil his mission and knowing the people of his time all he had to do was tell them he was equal to god, that was an assured death sentence. Along with doing other things they would consider offensive.

John 5:16
Honor the Father and the Son
For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath.
John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

LordReed:


First off, he knew he was going to die, according to the tale he knew before he was born.

Revelation 13:8
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Secondly, he gave up his own life according to the tale.

Hebrews 9:26
He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Next he had to fulfil his mission and knowing the people of his time all he had to do was tell them he was equal to god, that was an assured death sentence. Along with doing other things they would consider offensive.

John 5:16
Honor the Father and the Son
For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

Look who's being actually reading his Bible, this is actually good. It's the fastest way out of folly, the entrance of God's Word gives light. What you conveniently forget is that none of these actions actually got Jesus killed. They couldn't even get themselves together right when they were accusing Him after His arrest. Knowledge of something does not necessarily mean that you cause it, think.

Image123:


Look who's being actually reading his Bible, this is actually good. It's the fastest way out of folly, the entrance of God's Word gives light. What you conveniently forget is that none of these actions actually got Jesus killed. They couldn't even get themselves together right when they were accusing Him after His arrest. Knowledge of something does not necessarily mean that you cause it, think.

Lagbaja Nothing For You!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd-MeDtmIbA

LordReed:


First off, he knew he was going to die, according to the tale he knew before he was born.

Revelation 13:8
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Secondly, he gave up his own life according to the tale.

Hebrews 9:26
He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Next he had to fulfil his mission and knowing the people of his time all he had to do was tell them he was equal to god, that was an assured death sentence. Along with doing other things they would consider offensive.

John 5:16
Honor the Father and the Son
For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath.
John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

Good. I am sure you believe all you wrote above and use it as evidence of your defence.

Now, if you think someone like this exist, following your explanation. Someone that can have these amount of knowledge you ascribed him and can also manipulate his ways from prophecies to his birth, his childhood, to adult to ensure he was killed in preciseness of the prediction that happened 4000 years before. Dont you think you already made him a god or at least, an all knowing and all controlling of circumstances?

Or what do you think? he was able to manipulate the predicted birth (at least 1000 years before), the places, the events, the people and the circumstances as you narrated above. So, if you hold the above true, Then beg a question, why do you think he is not a superior being. one in charge of circumstances. What do you think.

hupernikao:


Good. I am sure you believe all you wrote above and use it as evidence of your defence.

Now, if you think someone like this exist, following your explanation. Someone that can have these amount of knowledge you ascribed him and can also manipulate his ways from prophecies to his birth, his childhood, to adult to ensure he was killed in preciseness of the prediction that happened 4000 years before. Dont you think you already made him a god or at least, an all knowing and all controlling of circumstances?

Or what do you think? he was able to manipulate the predicted birth (at least 1000 years before), the places, the events, the people and the circumstances as you narrated above. So, if you hold the above true, Then beg a question, why do you think he is not a superior being. one in charge of circumstances. What do you think.

It's a story, you can detail any amount of precision you would like when crafting a tale. Read Frank Herbert's Dune series and see masterful tale crafting that details prophetic accuracy, supernatural power and clairvoyance that spans both the past and the future.

kingxsamz:


But Satans sin, rebellion, and plan to dethrone the Christian god did not kill him?
Did you even think about what you wrote?

Are you a Muslim

Bishopkingsley:


Are you a Muslim

No. Why?

hupernikao:


You didnt answer the question Sir,

We arent speaking about Jesus is God here. I am addressing your statement below.



I am sure you didnt school in Babylon, where they lack zeal to read/study but have mouth to speak what they never know or read before.

So, where did you see the bolded from? Kindly help out.

Just seeing this sef.
If Jesus is God, and you agree with that, that already explains my point.
Did the Bible mention that Adam's chidren populated the earth with incest? No, but you believe that's how it happened. Same way the bible didn't mention anything about the beginning of the people of Nod, but you believe Cain went there to live among them and find a wife. So there goes your answer.

kingxsamz:


No. Why?

Do you believe in God

Bishopkingsley:


Do you believe in God

I don't believe in any of the created gods.

kingxsamz:

Just seeing this sef.
If Jesus is God, and you agree with that, that already explains my point.
Did the Bible mention that Adam's chidren populated the earth with incest? No, but you believe that's how it happened. Same way the bible didn't mention anything about the beginning of the people of Nod, but you believe Cain went there to live among them and find a wife. So there goes your answer.

Are you assuming what i believe or you are speaking for me in what position?

I likely wonder what brought about Adam's children and Cain.


Please stop driving this discussion in circles. I only asked you to explain your claim. Dont shift the ground to what we arent discussing.

This is your claim below

... An all powerful god killing itself in order to correct its mistakes. grin. This story is wonderful.

So, explain where you see this. Dont let me assume you are one of those who dont read but carry rumor and false information yet claim authority. Go ahead and show me where you see this and explain it. This is what honest discussion requires.

LordReed:


It's a story, you can detail any amount of precision you would like when crafting a tale. Read Frank Herbert's Dune series and see masterful tale crafting that details prophetic accuracy, supernatural power and clairvoyance that spans both the past and the future.

You havent answered me.

So, if hold this story true and used it in your argument. Dont you think such personality must be beyond human abilities and superior in disposition.

I am sure you dont read and argue Frank Herbert's Dune series like you did now the scriptures. So i am sure there is a difference. What do you think about such ability to control the whole history of man from your narratives.

hupernikao:


Are you assuming what i believe or you are speaking for me in what position?

I likely wonder what brought about Adam's children and Cain.

You are looking for a Bible verse, and I also gave you examples of certain beliefs which you can't find in the bible but it's widely believed.

Please stop driving this discussion in circles. I only asked you to explain your claim. Dont shift the ground to what we arent discussing.

If you believe Jesus is God, that's all the explanation you need. If you don't believe, then it's not for you.

So, explain where you see this. Dont let me assume you are one of those who dont read but carry rumor and false information yet claim authority. Go ahead and show me where you see this and explain it. This is what honest discussion requires.

Go ahead and show me where the bible mentioned that Adam's chidren had to indulge in incest. That's all the explanation you need.

hupernikao:


You havent answered me.

So, if hold this story true and used it in your argument. Dont you think such personality must be beyond human abilities and superior in disposition.

I am sure you dont read and argue Frank Herbert's Dune series like you did now the scriptures. So i am sure there is a difference. What do you think about such ability to control the whole history of man from your narratives.

Nobody argues Frank Herbert's Dune because everyone understands that it is a fiction. Believers in the Jesus tale think it real. I try to meet you there while maintaining that your Jesus beliefs are just that beliefs, they do not accurately portray reality. So when I present to you the statements of the Bible it's not because I believe there is some supernatural and powerful being capable of doing these things, I am properly illustrating to you why I made the statement "suicide by cop".

LordReed:


Nobody argues Frank Herbert's Dune because everyone understands that it is a fiction. Believers in the Jesus tale think it real. I try to meet you there while maintaining that your Jesus beliefs are just that beliefs, they do not accurately portray reality. So when I present to you the statements of the Bible it's not because I believe there is some supernatural and powerful being capable of doing these things, I am properly illustrating to you why I made the statement "suicide by cop".

Well, you practically didnt get the message and explanation of the scriptures going by verses and events you quoted. I avoided having to be explaining that to you because as you said, you dont believe in the scriptures.


But, Let me point you briefly where you missed the point.

You assumed that all that happened all through those ages you referred, were done by God/Jesus, your basis was the fact that it was prophesied ahead of time by God's men. But your assumption neglect the fact that, the one with foreknowledge doesnt necessary has to be the cause of the action.

E.g. I can foresee that you will receive Christ few years ahead of you now, but when you do, i dont necessarily have to be the one who caused it. God can work through the circumstances of your decision to still bring the opportunity of gospel to you and you receive it. Mostly like, 2 preachers had to die for that cause. Did i kill them to reach you? No, man's evil decision, rejection, hardening which may include yours or any decision maker can lead to their death but God dont give up on people, hence your final salvation, and his final purpose achieved even though man's evil has done all to stopped it.

That ability, to go through the frailty, evil, lowliness, opposition of man and still work out its own plan through that circumstances and events at the end is the wisdom of God we serve. Hence, in this case of Jesus. Man's salvation was the plan of God. And was done even in all the evil of men and opposition.

But in your claims and explanations, you have tolled the line of those who interpret sovereignty as having remote to control all actions, the reasons i was pulling in the that direction.

So, what we saw in the scriptures is that, Jesus death was in prophecies ahead of time and we saw it happened in history as man's actions. Yet God's will was still achieved. That should guide your interpretation except you believe that God can remote control every being including you to do what you dont want to do. But the Bible never presented such God.

Hence, Bible study will take more than just what is in vogue or what was heard. It requires diligent study to be able to critic or hold the faith firmly.

kingxsamz:
You are looking for a Bible verse, and I also gave you examples of certain beliefs which you can't find in the bible but it's widely believed.

If you believe Jesus is God, that's all the explanation you need. If you don't believe, then it's not for you.

Go ahead and show me where the bible mentioned that Adam's chidren had to indulge in incest. That's all the explanation you need.

Keep your focus on the question and accusation you raised. This will help the discussion.

i will repeat your statement again before i conclude on your motive. This is what you wrote.

kingxsamz: An all powerful god killing itself in order to correct its mistakes. This story is wonderful.

Please explain this. Dont let me assume you are one of those people who get their bible knowledge at newspapers stand.
Please explain your claim.

hupernikao:


Keep your focus on the question and accusation you raised. This will help the discussion.

i will repeat your statement again before i conclude on your motive. This is what you wrote.



Please explain this. Dont let me assume you are one of those people who get their bible knowledge at newspapers stand.
Please explain your claim.

Abeg rest. You have no point.
If you can't disprove that Jesus is God in the Christian doctrine, then no need mentioning me.
At bolded already answers the question. If you can't see it, then it's not my fault if you're slow or not too smart.

MaxInDHouse:


You're welcome!
Your question is really thought provoking but only one group of people can provide the satisfying answer!

With my first post you can see how God presented His case to all intellectuals who wants fair hearing {Isaiah 1:18} He is not a bully nor a dictator who will hastily exterminate defaulters without allowing them see the end result of their wrongdoings.

If He kill the three rebels at a go then His purpose to fill the earth with intelligent creatures (humans) will not be fulfilled, and let's say He should create another pair of humans the same thing could repeat itself. Meanwhile Satan's assertion is still pending: can humans independently rule themselves successfully without God?

So time is needed to resolve all these issues, that's why God allowed Adam and Eve to bear Children so they can see for themselves before they expire that what they clamoured for can never yield a positive result! Ecclesiastes 8:9

In the other hand Satan who wanted to continue with the plot after the demise of his accomplice only discovered that for him to set standards he will ever continue killing people to rule people!

We all know that it's possible for humans to speed up the learning process that's set for about 16 year or more in other for our children to learn everything within just one or two years. But why haven't we come to agree on such a shorter session?
Well it's because we know that people need to pass through certain stages in other to reach maturity.
That's exactly what the Creator (in whose image we are made) also did. Gradually we are getting to the last segment of the learning process, after humans have tried so many system of rulership (government) we are now trying the last one God foretold in the Bible:

DEMOCRACY ~ the government of the people, by the people and for the people!

Note how God foretold this in the Bible book of Daniel 2:44

In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever!

The coloured said when God decides to wipe out all human government there won't be a reason for us to CHANGE rulers using tenors again as most people globally are doing right now under DEMOCRACY!

May you have PEACE!

You must be Jehovah witness . I love you answer

Dtruthspeaker:


Exactly as you have electricity, gas cookers, irons, fans, hot water in your house and you tell your children "do not touch."

And they obeyed until they let their neighbour make them disobey.

It's as simple as that! You do the same too.



You ponder a foolish thing exactly as a mannequin thinks that because it is made of plastic and iron, it's Creator too must be made of plastic and iron.

Exactly as you are not made of plastic and iron as your mannequin, and the idiot is foolish to think so, so also are you being foolish to think that Your God will be limited to the things you know such as marriage and pregnancy.

Begotten means to "come forth" exactly as "your words" and "breath" come out from you, with no marriage and all the things you foolishly thought.



Heaven (spirit) and earth (physical) are Twins and we live in both of them, at first no hell.

But where there Offence (sins) counts, there is a Court;

And where there is a court, there is Judgement;

And where there is Judgement, there is Punishment;

And where there is punishment, there you find Hell!

One bottle of wine

heniford2:
sound confuse Mr, lets start with the test of things you mentioned a father knows that keeping a fire torch in the house will be of harm to his child and he went ahead to tell his child look this fire here will burn you do not touch it ,now the question is why would the father keep a fire touch in the house where his beloved children is why would he tell his child not to touch it, while
he can remove it without and keep it of guard for his child does it mean he has no power to do so?? Two I asked begotten son last I check is mean own mean God had a son but the where no record of him having a wife did God adopt Jesus because is confusing you don't just have a child without a female attribute.how did it come to be how did it happen we know the Bible said mary conceived Jesus as a virgin so how did God conceived Jesus

Another example in addition to what Dtruthspeaker said, a mother prepares all types of delicacies, she then instruct her kids not to eat a particular one because it is reserved. The reserved one has all types of meat. Out of curiosity one of her kid taste one of the meat. What will you do as a parent? Would you punish your child or you would let it sly? And if you choose not to punish, wouldn't the child repeat it

edoairways:

Another example in addition to what Dtruthspeaker said, a mother prepares all types of delicacies, she then instruct her kids not to eat a particular one because it is reserved. The reserved one has all types of meat. Out of curiosity one of her kid taste one of the meat. What will you do as a parent? Would you punish your child or you would let it sly? And if you choose not to punish, wouldn't the child repeat it

Oh O!

From that day onwards the child will go on to disobey mama in another matter and become a child of disobedience and rebellion.

What we call a "Spoilt child and Untrained or Ill-Trained [b]Badly Behaved[/b]child"!

And badly behaved children are put away in the "dustbin" and "furnace" like a bad product.

For The Law of Life and Living is on Good Behaviour and Goodly Behaved Children.

edoairways:

One bottle of wine

Thank You!

hupernikao:


Well, you practically didnt get the message and explanation of the scriptures going by verses and events you quoted. I avoided having to be explaining that to you because as you said, you dont believe in the scriptures.


But, Let me point you briefly where you missed the point.

You assumed that all that happened all through those ages you referred, were done by God/Jesus, your basis was the fact that it was prophesied ahead of time by God's men. But your assumption neglect the fact that, the one with foreknowledge doesnt necessary has to be the cause of the action.

I think you missed the meaning of my words. I

E.g. I can foresee that you will receive Christ few years ahead of you now, but when you do, i dont necessarily have to be the one who caused it. God can work through the circumstances of your decision to still bring the opportunity of gospel to you and you receive it. Mostly like, 2 preachers had to die for that cause. Did i kill them to reach you? No, man's evil decision, rejection, hardening which may include yours or any decision maker can lead to their death but God dont give up on people, hence your final salvation, and his final purpose achieved even though man's evil has done all to stopped it.

That ability, to go through the frailty, evil, lowliness, opposition of man and still work out its own plan through that circumstances and events at the end is the wisdom of God we serve. Hence, in this case of Jesus. Man's salvation was the plan of God. And was done even in all the evil of men and opposition.

But in your claims and explanations, you have tolled the line of those who interpret sovereignty as having remote to control all actions, the reasons i was pulling in the that direction.

So, what we saw in the scriptures is that, Jesus death was in prophecies ahead of time and we saw it happened in history as man's actions. Yet God's will was still achieved. That should guide your interpretation except you believe that God can remote control every being including you to do what you dont want to do. But the Bible never presented such God.

Hence, Bible study will take more than just what is in vogue or what was heard. It requires diligent study to be able to critic or hold the faith firmly.

You seem to think I am saying he remote controlled people into doing what they did, when in fact I specifically wrote that he manipulated the situation.

LordReed:


You seem to think I am saying he remote controlled people into doing what they did, when in fact I specifically wrote that he manipulated the situation.

Don't worry, when you enter hell, you will speak enough grammar there.There is too much time there. Someone clearly under satanic manipulation is talking of manipulation, lol.

Image123:


Don't worry, when you enter hell, you will speak enough grammar there.There is too much time there. Someone clearly under satanic manipulation is talking of manipulation, lol.

Lagbaja Nothing For You!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd-MeDtmIbA

LordReed:


You seem to think I am saying he remote controlled people into doing what they did, when in fact I specifically wrote that he manipulated the situation.

Either manipulate or control, they are siblings. Manipulation is a act of deceitfully making a gain on someone by controlling their decision even though they have their will, yet their decisions were altered by the manipulator.

Howbeit, my point is this, Prophecies (of which you based your explanations) arent manipulations, they are foresight. They are expo into the future of a man's decision or an events. Prophecies is not about what God will make happen but what God want to make happen and likewise what man's decision is in the events. If its prophesied that you will be a missioner in future, that is not a cast a stone decision, your daily will and decision will still determine if that will be fulfilled in you. You can decided to end up as a banker, and even oppose missioner.

You must see this two elements well in prophecy.
- God's plan
- Man's will and decision

Hence, all you have been pointing to are man's decision spoken ahead of time about the son of God to come.

In the bible days, especially in OT, you can blame all things on God, but there are more lights today, even human knowledge abound today to let you know that man can make decision, carry out things without even knowing or accepting God, nor believe he exists. That is how man was made.

So, putting all you see in scriptures as God's actions is reading the text today (2021) with the available knowledge of 2000 years ago.

kingxsamz:


Abeg rest. You have no point.
If you can't disprove that Jesus is God in the Christian doctrine, then no need mentioning me.
At bolded already answers the question. If you can't see it, then it's not my fault if you're slow or not too smart.

Sadly, i was expecting this from you.
It is obvious you are in same click of those who are fast to accuse but slow to learn.

You dont come on public forum to make accusation without evidence. You cant give your time to defend what you claim. Isnt that bad enough? Do you go around like this in real life to give accusation without being diligent?


I will advise you to stop parading your self in this ignorance and learn. READ, READ READ. Dont go around repeating what you only copy and paste online. That is laziness. If you want to be a critic, be a sound one not one that is lazy and careless but strong in fingers


Go back now and start reading that scriptures to know how you will answer things next time. I dont need you to believe the scriptures, tht is your decision but i need intelligent discussion from you to show you truly go through things you claim and that you have a superior judgement. Sadly, you likely dont even have access to bible you claim to criticize. very sad.

Well, these days everyone has a critical voice on the internet even the lazy folks.

Have a good day.

hupernikao:


Either manipulate or control, they are siblings. Manipulation is a act of deceitfully making a gain on someone by controlling their decision even though they have their will, yet their decisions were altered by the manipulator.

Howbeit, my point is this, Prophecies (of which you based your explanations) arent manipulations, they are foresight. They are expo into the future of a man's decision or an events. Prophecies is not about what God will make happen but what God want to make happen and likewise what man's decision is in the events. If its prophesied that you will be a missioner in future, that is not a cast a stone decision, your daily will and decision will still determine if that will be fulfilled in you. You can decided to end up as a banker, and even oppose missioner.

You must see this two elements well in prophecy.
- God's plan
- Man's will and decision

Hence, all you have been pointing to are man's decision spoken ahead of time about the son of God to come.

In the bible days, especially in OT, you can blame all things on God, but there are more lights today, even human knowledge abound today to let you know that man can make decision, carry out things without even knowing or accepting God, nor believe he exists. That is how man was made.

So, putting all you see in scriptures as God's actions is reading the text today (2021) with the available knowledge of 2000 years ago.

Man's decision to kill someone who already knew before hand that they want to kill him and played into their hand is what if not manipulation. Someone wants to do something harmful to you but instead of stopping it you allow it happen so that you can sue them is manipulation.

hupernikao:


Sadly, i was expecting this from you.
It is obvious you are in same click of those who are fast to accuse but slow to learn.

You dont come on public forum to make accusation without evidence. You cant give your time to defend what you claim. Isnt that bad enough? Do you go around like this in real life to give accusation without being diligent?


I will advise you to stop parading your self in this ignorance and learn. READ, READ READ. Dont go around repeating what you only copy and paste online. That is laziness. If you want to be a critic, be a sound one not one that is lazy and careless but strong in fingers


Go back now and start reading that scriptures to know how you will answer things next time. I dont need you to believe the scriptures, tht is your decision but i need intelligent discussion from you to show you truly go through things you claim and that you have a superior judgement. Sadly, you likely dont even have access to bible you claim to criticize. very sad.

Well, these days everyone has a critical voice on the internet even the lazy folks.

Have a good day.

Long story. Didn't bother reading all that.
When you have answered my question about Jesus being God, then come back and tell me if your brain have finally connected the dots between your answer and my initial statement. Good day.

kingxsamz:


Long story. Didn't bother reading all that.
When you have answered my question about Jesus being God, then come back and tell me if your brain have finally connected the dots between your answer and my initial statement. Good day.

I aint surprised you didnt read. It is a culture you have developed. So bad an habit.

But, like i told you, dont go around saying things you cant defend, it present you in a bad light and can be taken for dishonesty.
Read well, its not hard, you can overcome the laziness and gain proper strength in criticizing the bible since its seems to be your abode.

Else, you will only be exposing that ignorance here and most likely around you in the physical word.