PastorAIO:


I'm happy to keep repeating the evidence as long as you keep pretending not to see it. yhwh himself admits that he gave commandment to sacrifice their firstborn.

EZEKIEL 20:
25Moreover, I gave them statutes that were not good and rules by which they could not have life, 26and I defiled them through their very gifts in their offering up all their firstborn, that I might devastate them. I did it that they might know that I am the LORD.



I thought you were a christian. possibly not. Okay let me explain the christian doctrine to you. Jesus is a sacrifice that cleanses humanity of sins and makes humanity acceptable to yhwh.

Ephesians 5
2 And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.


In fact the ritual sacrifices of previous times are supposed to be an inferior version of the ultimate sacrifice which is Jesus.

Ultimately it is a human sacrifice without which yhwh cannot or will not forgive his followers.

Why don't you quote from Ezekiel chapter 20 vv1? Why are you afraid? Be bold like a man.
Like I said Jesus sacrifice is a judicial one. The judgment was against us because of our sins but Jesus took the punishment for our sins, and also Jesus sacrifice prove the depth of God's love for us.

PastorAIO:
This how you know redactions and revisions are taking place. They can not be consistent but they keep contradicting each other. Now you say that the first borns are redeemed from doing priestly work Abi?
But just a while a go from the other side of your mouth you quoted the folllowing:
Exodus
13:15 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem.

So which is it? Is it because yhwh prefers levites as priests that they are redeemed or is it because yhwh killed all the first borns in Egypt?

It sounds like fabricated excuses. I've learnt in life (this could even be a definition of truth) that the 'Truth is what people speak when they think they are talking about something else entirely'.

This passage remains unchallenged:


EZEKIEL 20:
25Moreover, I gave them statutes that were not good and rules by which they could not have life, 26and I defiled them through their very gifts in their offering up all their firstborn, that I might devastate them. I did it that they might know that I am the LORD.


These passages do not tally. Either you redeem the first born from being a priest. Or you redeem him from being killed like the Egyptians. Or you don't redeem him at all and you sacrifice him. These 3 things cannot all be true. Evidence suggests that the Ezekiel passage is what actually happened and the exodus passages were redacted later.

Israel is God's firstborn son God killed every firstborn of the egyptians because of the way they treated his own firstborn, and because Israel is God's firstborn they are to dedicate their firstborn son to serve God as a symbol that Israel God's firstborn is to serve God.

Steep:
Why don't you quote from Ezekiel chapter 20 vv1? Why are you afraid? Be bold like a man.
Like I said Jesus sacrifice is a judicial one. The judgment was against us because of our sins but Jesus took the punishment for our sins, and also Jesus sacrifice prove the depth of God's love for us.

why don't you do the honours and quote whatever you think is relevant for us to peruse? After all you have been quoting passages at me since I've started interacting with you.

I don't know the difference you are making between judicial and ritual nor why you consider them mutually exclusive. Perhaps you can explain further.
But the bottom line is that Jesus was a sacrifice, not just a sacrifice but a sacrifice modelled on the ritual slaughter of lambs and cattle. After all why do you call him a sacrificial lamb. But he wasn't a lamb though, was he? He was a human sacrifice.

Steep:
Israel is God's firstborn son God killed every firstborn of the egyptians because of the way they treated his own firstborn, and because Israel is God's firstborn they are to dedicate their firstborn son to serve God as a symbol that Israel God's firstborn is to serve God.

Oh? And not because all first borns belong to yhwh and anything that openeth the womb must be burnt as an offering to him?

So then, pray tell, why did the hebrews offer the first crops and the first animals of their flock?

Broveens42:


You are really giving this guys a hard time

It is done with love, sir. I just wanna get this message out. I can't force him to accept but the more he interacts the more opportunity I have to explicate.

While we are perusing the facts of human sacrifices to yhwh if you need a distraction how about reflecting on these 2 passages:


1chronicles 21:1
Samuel 24:1





1 Chronicles 21
1Then Satan stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel. 2So David said to Joab and the commanders of the army, “Go, number Israel, from Beersheba to Dan, and bring me a report, that I may know their number.”

2 Samuel 24
1Again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.” 2So the king said to Joab, the commander of the army,a who was with him, “Go through all the tribes of Israel, from Dan to Beersheba, and number the people, that I may know the number of the people.”

PastorAIO:


Oh? And not because all first borns belong to yhwh and anything that openeth the womb must be burnt as an offering to him?

So then, pray tell, why did the hebrews offer the first crops and the first animals of their flock?

All firstborns belong to God, of course.
Where does it day all that openeth the womb is for burnt offering?
The offered the first crops and animals because they meant meant the specification for sacrifice.
Don't dodge that question? Answer it, where was it stated that all that openeth the womb is for burnt offering?

PastorAIO:


why don't you do the honours and quote whatever you think is relevant for us to peruse? After all you have been quoting passages at me since I've started interacting with you.

Ezekiel 20:5 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when I chose Israel, and lifted up mine hand unto the seed of the house of Jacob, and made myself known unto them in the land of Egypt, when I lifted up mine hand unto them, saying, I am the LORD your God;

20:7 Then said I unto them, Cast ye away every man the abominations of his eyes, and defile not yourselves with the idols of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

20:8 But they rebelled against me, and would not hearken unto me: they did not every man cast away the abominations of their eyes, neither did they forsake the idols of Egypt: then I said, I will pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the midst of the land of Egypt.

20:11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.

20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

20:24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.

20:25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

Those laws that were nor good were not yahweh's laws for the rejected yahweh's laws therefor he gave them laws that were not good.
In the bible especially the old testament anything that happens is always regarded from God whether good or evil, that is because God is the final authority.

The authority for anything to happen is from yahweh.
The reason yahweh allows Israel to fall into such evil laws is because they rejected the good laws that belong to yahweh.

I don't know the difference you are making between judicial and ritual nor why you consider them mutually exclusive. Perhaps you can explain further.

But the bottom line is that Jesus was a sacrifice, not just a sacrifice but a sacrifice modelled on the ritual slaughter of lambs and cattle. After all why do you call him a sacrificial lamb. But he wasn't a lamb though, was he? He was a human sacrifice.

maybe you should also say we eat human flesh and drink human blood because Jesus said except you eat my flesh or drink my blood you cannot have eternal life.


John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

Jesus was a sacrifice, not regarded as a ritual sacrifice.
Ritual sacrifice is a religious sacrifice done to please a spirit or deity.
Judicial sacrifice is a voluntary action taken by a person to take the punishment of another.

Jesus was not offered by any human being as a sacrifice to God instead he was killed by unjustly as a criminal because they thought Jesus was a threat to national peace.
For example a political activist who die in prison can be regarded as a sacrifice for freedom it does not mean it was a ritual sacrifice.

PastorAIO:


It is done with love, sir. I just wanna get this message out. I can't force him to accept but the more he interacts the more opportunity I have to explicate.

Both of you are in Delusion!

Steep:
All firstborns belong to God, of course.
Where does it day all that openeth the womb is for burnt offering?
The offered the first crops and animals because they meant meant the specification for sacrifice.
Don't dodge that question? Answer it, where was it stated that all that openeth the womb is for burnt offering?

exodus 34

The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock.

PastorAIO:


exodus 34

The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock.

Na so una dey quote Bible/Quran like say na better thing......las las, you no fit enjoy yourself for this life pass person wey no dey do am ...unless you just decide to dey whine yourself..##

PastorAIO:


exodus 34

The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock.

So where does belong to me translate to use them for burnt offering?

Steep:

Both of you are in Delusion!

Steep:

So where does belong to me translate to use them for burnt offering?

But when this passage favors you, you will try to twist it as burnt offering.

So I get your argument but it's illogical to insinuate it isn't talking about burnt offering.

When the statement says only; "your first offspring of every womb belong to me"... You can make an assumption of dedication to service for first borns, since they were created in image and likeness of God.

But what of the other clause that completes the sentence? "Livestock"
Livestock can't belong to God in the context of dedication to service, they are not image and likeness of god according to your good book.

So the clauses being put in a sentence can only mean burnt offering.
It's a complete sentence and not two sentences.

Clause1. Are there evidences where god in good book instructed a man to sacrifice his son ? Yes

Clause 2: are there evidences where god instructed livestock to worship him in the temple or render some kind of services? No

Clause 1 plus clause 2 only means burnt offering.

PastorAIO:
While we are perusing the facts of human sacrifices to yhwh if you need a distraction how about reflecting on these 2 passages:


1chronicles 21:1
Samuel 24:1





1 Chronicles 21
1Then Satan stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel. 2So David said to Joab and the commanders of the army, “Go, number Israel, from Beersheba to Dan, and bring me a report, that I may know their number.”

2 Samuel 24
1Again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.” 2So the king said to Joab, the commander of the army,a who was with him, “Go through all the tribes of Israel, from Dan to Beersheba, and number the people, that I may know the number of the people.”

quite intriguing

PastorAIO:
While we are perusing the facts of human sacrifices to yhwh if you need a distraction how about reflecting on these 2 passages:
1chronicles 21:1
Samuel 24:1

1 Chronicles 21
1Then Satan stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel. 2So David said to Joab and the commanders of the army, “Go, number Israel, from Beersheba to Dan, and bring me a report, that I may know their number.”

2 Samuel 24
1Again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.” 2So the king said to Joab, the commander of the army,a who was with him, “Go through all the tribes of Israel, from Dan to Beersheba, and number the people, that I may know the number of the people.”

So, Satan works for God, right?

Steep:

So where does belong to me translate to use them for burnt offering?

oh, I see. It doesn't say that first fruits are to be burnt. My bad.

Burnt offering is not the only kind of sacrifice,

Kobojunkie:
So, Satan works for God, right?

are you asking me, or are you telling me?

PastorAIO:
are you asking me, or are you telling me?

Wasn't the question mark visible ?

Kobojunkie:
Wasn't the question mark visible ?

question mark or no question mark that post is incongruent.

I simply post 2 bible passages vis a vis and suggested it was worth investigating. Especially considering that these thread is about contradictions.,

What got triggered in you that made you ask that question?

PastorAIO:

question mark or no question mark that post is incongruent.

I simply post 2 bible passages vis a vis and suggested it was worth investigating. Especially considering that these thread is about contradictions.,

What got triggered in you that made you ask that question?

Again, the question ....So, Satan works for God, right?

This is simply meant to know your understanding as far as the stories of Satan found in the book.

Broveens42:

But what of the other clause that completes the sentence? "Livestock"
Livestock can't belong to God in the context of dedication to service, they are not image and likeness of god according to your good book.

So the clauses being put in a sentence can only mean burnt offering.
It's a complete sentence and not two sentences.

Clause1. Are there evidences where god in good book instructed a man to sacrifice his son ? Yes

Clause 2: are there evidences where god instructed livestock to worship him in the temple or render some kind of services? No

Clause 1 plus clause 2 only means burnt offering.

Even if you concede that the sacrifices were not holocausts, you're right when you consider the modus operandi. Yhwh instructed Abram to kill his first born son. Abram did not even flinch. He didn't say 'haba, why na?'. Obviously it was a request that was normative. And indeed everywhere we look in Canaanite culture such an act was very normal.

Kobojunkie:
Again, the question ....So, Satan works for God, right?

This is simply meant to know your understanding as far as the stories of Satan found in the book.

Why are you interested in my understanding? This is not a competition of 'who sabi pass'. If you have some pearls of wisdom that you think I could benefit from regarding the stories of satan found in the book please be generous, share them.

Kobojunkie:

When I see this emoji at the end of all your posts after a while I'm starting to wonder if that is that actual shape of your mouth in real life. lol.

I pray that isn't so...

PastorAIO:
Why are you interested in my understanding? This is not a competition of 'who sabi pass'. If you have some pearls of wisdom that you think I could benefit from regarding the stories of satan found in the book please be generous, share them.

You posted two verses claiming them contradictions and all I have done was ask a simple question in order to learn your understanding as far the Satan character mentioned in one of those verses is all. It doesn't matter what you believe as your understanding is what matters to this here discuss.

PastorAIO:
When I see this emoji at the end of all your posts after a while I'm starting to wonder if that is that actual shape of your mouth in real life. lol.

I pray that isn't so...

What does it matter if it is?

kingxsamz:

How will you see when you're dull and blind?
Abeg shift comot.

My doormat idiot, there is no opportunity here to insult me for before your foolishness and disgrace is legendarily established forever.
So return to your rat hole. Idiot.

Steep:


Ezekiel 20:5 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when I chose Israel, and lifted up mine hand unto the seed of the house of Jacob, and made myself known unto them in the land of Egypt, when I lifted up mine hand unto them, saying, I am the LORD your God;

20:7 Then said I unto them, Cast ye away every man the abominations of his eyes, and defile not yourselves with the idols of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

20:8 But they rebelled against me, and would not hearken unto me: they did not every man cast away the abominations of their eyes, neither did they forsake the idols of Egypt: then I said, I will pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the midst of the land of Egypt.

20:11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.

20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

20:24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.

20:25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

Those laws that were nor good were not yahweh's laws for the rejected yahweh's laws therefor he gave them laws that were not good.
In the bible especially the old testament anything that happens is always regarded from God whether good or evil, that is because God is the final authority.

The authority for anything to happen is from yahweh.
The reason yahweh allows Israel to fall into such evil laws is because they rejected the good laws that belong to yahweh.

I did not ask about the reasons or the motivation that caused yhwh to give such horrendous laws to his supposed people.

A thief is a thief is a thief. Of course different thieves have different reasons for stealing. Some are hungry. Some are greedy. Some just have psychological problem aka kleptomania. etc etc etc

At the end of the day, regardless of the motivation, tiff na tiff.

Yhwh gave the Israelites commands to sacrifice their first born sons. This is a fact, an undisputed fact. If you later want to go into the reasons why and try to rationalise the evil and dastardly act that is a different matter. But at least I'm glad that you have come to admit that such a command was given by Yhwh. Well done.

PastorAIO:


When I see this emoji at the end of all your posts after a while I'm starting to wonder if that is that actual shape of your mouth in real life. lol.

I pray that isn't so...

I know several people whose lips are stranded in that peculiar position in real life though.

Kobojunkie:
What does it matter if it is?

In the broad scale of things it doesn't really matter, but on a personal microcosm scale I think it would be quite unfortunate. Anyway, it's just a picture that comes into my mind whenever I read your posts.

DeepSight:


I know several people whose lips are stranded in that peculiar position in real life though.

Dis guy. you don come again o. 'stranded'?!! What?, The lips went on excursion and couldn't afford the bus fare back to their base.

Kobojunkie:

You posted two verses claiming them contradictions and all I have done was ask a simple question in order to learn your understanding as far the Satan character mentioned in one of those verses is all. It doesn't matter what you believe as your understanding is what matters to this here discuss.

I'll be happy to expound on my understanding of those passages but not now. It's a whole big kettle of fish and I have to be in the right mood and frame of mind to tackle it.