PastorAIO:
You ought not to just say 'OK' like that without asking questions. that is how you won't learn.

You stated your opinion of the Christian faith and I acknowledged understanding of it. Why must I ask questions when not that long ago, I too used to believe as you do, so I quite clearly understand your mindset and reasoning about these things

LordReed:
You said the god gave laws so according to the law what was the consequence for human sacrifice?

The law is as stated as referenced in the post you responded to. There are 613 statutes/commandments included in the law - documented in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. I am not going to dig into that searching for consequences this Saturday morning, but feel free to.

Kobojunkie:
You stated your opinion of the Christian faith and I acknowledged understanding of it. Why must I ask questions when not that long ago, I too used to believe as you do, so I quite clearly understand your mindset and reasoning about these things

You used to believe as I do? So what do you consider to be my mindset and reasoning about Ezekiel 20:25

EZEKIEL 20:
25Moreover, I gave them statutes that were not good and rules by which they could not have life, 26and I defiled them through their very gifts in their offering up all their firstborn, that I might devastate them. I did it that they might know that I am the LORD.

DeepSight:


Long time Pastor. Great to read from you again. How you dey?

I dey like daily times.

PastorAIO:
You used to believe as I do? So what do you consider to be my mindset and reasoning about Ezekiel 20:25

EZEKIEL 20:
25Moreover, I gave them statutes that were not good and rules by which they could not have life, 26and I defiled them through their very gifts in their offering up all their firstborn, that I might devastate them. I did it that they might know that I am the LORD.

You stated it earlier and I understand it.

Kobojunkie:
You stated it earlier and I understand it.

Can you refute it? Please do.

PastorAIO:
Can you refute it? Please do.

I don't care to though. I mean you are free to hold whatever opinion you wish of the belief... I am totally OK with that..

Kobojunkie:
I don't care to though. I mean you are free to hold whatever opinion you wish of the belief... I am totally OK with that..

Ok, I thought, being a discussion forum and your previous posts, you'd want to defend your position.

PastorAIO:
Ok, I thought, being a discussion forum and your previous posts, you'd want to defend your position.

I am not here to defend a position.... I was simply trying to correct a misconception as far as God's Law is concerned.

Kobojunkie:

---

1. God made it known by His Law that human sacrifices were absolutely out of the question as far as that which He desires from His people, Israel.

2. Jephthah asked God for help, promising to offer God a burnt sacrifice of that which first thing that comes out of his house when he returns from victory.

3. Jephthah, ignoring God's decree, concluded that since his daughter was the first to come out of the house when he returned from victory, he would offer her a burnt sacrifice to God.

---

Ezekiel 20:25 flies in the face of your apparent correction of the misconception.

Your statement that Yhwh makes it known that human sacrifices are absolutely out of the question is contradicted by many passages in the bible. Ezekiel 20:25 is just one of them.

In fact it seems to be the other way round, that hebrews were distraught because of having to sacrifice their first born children but later on yhwh relented and changed the requirement.

Micah6
7Will the LORD be pleased witha thousands of rams,
with ten thousands of rivers of oil?
Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?”
8He has told you, O man, what is good;
and what does the LORD require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,b
and to walk humbly with your God?

Micah here addresses the issue of first fruits and assures the people that good ethics can substitute for not making the sacrifices.

Kobojunkie:
The law is as stated as referenced in the post you responded to. There are 613 statutes/commandments included in the law - documented in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. I am not going to dig into that searching for consequences this Saturday morning, but feel free to.

LMAO! I thought you already know what your god said since you know it is against his law. Bwahahahahaha!

Kobojunkie:
I am not here to defend a position.... I was simply trying to correct a misconception as far as God's Law is concerned.

The same law you can't seem to tell us the consequence of? LMFAO!

LordReed:
The same law you can't seem to tell us the consequence of? LMFAO!

Ok

LordReed:
LMAO! I thought you already know what your god said since you know it is against his law. Bwahahahahaha!

Ok

PastorAIO:


Well according to the bible the reason for YHWH asking for human sacrifice was an act of bitterness and wickedness towards the Hebrews. He demanded it precisely because he knew that it would bring them to ruin.

EZEKIEL 20:
25Moreover, I gave them statutes that were not good and rules by which they could not have life, 26and I defiled them through their very gifts in their offering up all their firstborn, that I might devastate them. I did it that they might know that I am the LORD.

So we see that it was all done so that the Hebrew would know that he is Yhwh.

When we heard that the first fruits of the Hebrews whether cattle or crops are to be offered up as a burnt offering to yhwh, BUT the first born human children are to be REDEEMED, a practice called "Pidyon Haben".

The question we ought to ask is 'redeemed from what'? If the parents cannot afford the silver to 'redeem' their first borns then what would happen to them? In other words what are they getting redeemed from.


Without a doubt there has been a lot of redaction of the bible but something so ingrained in the worship of yhwh cannot be scrubbed out completely and the OT is replete with vestiges of the practice. All this despite the desperate efforts to expunge it from the records.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidyon_haben

Hmmm, interesting. Seems to tie in with the hypothesis that the Jewish religion has Canaanite origins.

kingxsamz:


If your god does not change, why did his laws change?

which law change?

kingxsamz:


That's because a judge is qualified for the job. And anyone can become a judge if they follow the right precedures, even you. It's not a position you just wake up to and begin to execute.
That's like asking why elected officials have to control the affairs of a state and not just random citizens. It's a position you work towards and earn.
Did anyone grant your god the position to murder innocent children? Your question is unintelligent and a sorry piece of an excuse to exempt your god from holding the title of being a genocidal tyrant. You're only proving my point. Come up with something reasonable.
Your colleague said it's okay if rape is allowed by your god, as long as it's his law. Y'all are sick.

@ bolded A human judge is qualified but God is not qualified? Your foolishness is really atheistic

Steep:
which law change?

Laws change such as those about the sacrificial rituals.


Micah6[b]
7Will the LORD be pleased witha thousands of rams,
with ten thousands of rivers of oil?
Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?”[/b]
8He has told you, O man, what is good;
and what does the LORD require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,b
and to walk humbly with your God?


There is a shift away from being told explicitly to sacrifice victims to please yhwh. In fact we are told that the scent of burning flesh is a please aroma to him.

Leviticus 1:17
He shall tear it open by its wings, but shall not sever it completely. And the priest shall burn it on the altar, on the wood that is on the fire. It is a burnt offering, a food offering with a pleasing aroma to the Lord.



but by Micah things changed

LordReed:


Hmmm, interesting. Seems to tie in with the hypothesis that the Jewish religion has Canaanite origins.

Indeed. It is blatantly Canaanite in every aspect. The same world view, the same beliefs in sacrifices etc.....

For example the sacrifice of the King of Moab.
Moab was at war with Israel and Israel was prevailing. In a desperate bid to escape the King of Moab sacrificed this first born son and subsequently a great wrath fell on the Israelites and Moab managed to free itself.

What is of note here, though it was not an Hebrew sacrifice but a moabite sacrifice, is that the writers believe thoroughly in the efficacy of the sacrifice. The reason the Moabites escaped in the writers opinion is because they sacrificed the first born son of their King. There was certainly a belief in the efficacy of such a sacrifice.

2Kings 3
26When the king of Moab saw that the battle was going against him, he took with him 700 swordsmen to break through, opposite the king of Edom, but they could not. 27Then he took his oldest son who was to reign in his place and offered him for a burnt offering on the wall. And there came great wrath against Israel. And they withdrew from him and returned to their own land.

Steep:
@ bolded A human judge is qualified but God is not qualified? Your foolishness is really atheistic

Weak comeback.
No one said your god isn't qualified, maybe you feel so.
You asked a question and I answered and gave reasons why a judge has the power to serve criminals sentences. So what qualification processes did your god go through that made him think it's fair judgement to slaughter innocent children? Answer.
You're failing woefully at defending your sky daddy, tbh. He must be disappointed in you rn.
Too bad he can't speak for himself.

Steep:
which law change?

The many laws of the old testament.
Like the law where a rapist should marry their victim if they're discovered. Does that law still stand?

Kobojunkie:
Ok

Mr man.
You said the law "Thou shall not kill" was given to the Israelites. Please tell us which army the Christian god gave orders to kill and slaughter children.

PastorAIO:


Laws change such as those about the sacrificial rituals.


Micah6[b]
7Will the LORD be pleased witha thousands of rams,
with ten thousands of rivers of oil?
Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?”[/b]
8He has told you, O man, what is good;
and what does the LORD require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,b
and to walk humbly with your God?


There is a shift away from being told explicitly to sacrifice victims to please yhwh. In fact we are told that the scent of burning flesh is a please aroma to him.

can you show me where in the bible God required human sacrifice to please Yahweh?

1:17
He shall tear it open by its wings, but shall not sever it completely. And the priest shall burn it on the altar, on the wood that is on the fire. It is a burnt offering, a food offering with a pleasing aroma to the Lord.



but by Micah things changed

what do you mean by Micah many things changed

kingxsamz:


The many laws of the old testament.
Like the law where a rapist should marry their victim if they're discovered. Does that law still stand?

Was that law made for you a gentile?

Steep:
can you show me where in the bible God required human sacrifice to please Yahweh?

what do you mean by Micah many things changed

EZEKIEL 20:
25Moreover, I gave them statutes that were not good and rules by which they could not have life, 26and I defiled them through their very gifts in their offering up all their firstborn, that I might devastate them. I did it that they might know that I am the LORD.


Yhwh confesses to giving commands that were no good, commands to sacrifice their firstborns.

Steep:
Was that law made for you a gentile?

Does that law stlll stand or has it been changed?
That's the question. Answer and stop running.

kingxsamz:


Weak comeback.
No one said your god isn't qualified, maybe you feel so.
You asked a question and I answered and gave reasons why a judge has the power to serve criminals sentences. So what qualification processes did your god go through that made him think it's fair judgement to slaughter innocent children? Answer.
You're failing woefully at defending your sky daddy, tbh. He must be disappointed in you rn.
Too bad he can't speak for himself.

I thought you said God does not exist why is your Brain having seizures? If are assuming God exist for the sake of your argument, then your argument is thrash, because God by definition is higher than any human Judge and he owns all life and hence can demand it at any time he pleases.

Steep:

I thought you said God does not exist why is your Brain having seizures? If are assuming God exist for the sake of your argument, then your argument is thrash, because God by definition is higher than any human Judge and he owns all life and hence can demand it at any time he pleases.

This is how you know a theist is loosing an argument. They'll remind you that you dont believe in their god as they have nothing else to say. Meanwhile, they've been arguing with you right from the beginning but never thought to bring it up.

If your god is higher than any human judge then why did you compare him to human judges in the first place? You're the one who brought up the "human judge" issue, now you're running away from it like a scared little chicken. I think the Op's thread have been justified. You can run along now because I know insults from you would be your next move.

kingxsamz:


This is how you know a theist is loosing an argument. They'll remind you that you dont believe in their god as they have nothing else to say. Meanwhile, they've been arguing with you right from the beginning but never thought to bring it up.

If your god is higher than any human judge then why did you compare him to human judges in the first place? You're the one who brought up the "human judge" issue, now you're running away from it like a scared little chicken. I think the Op's thread have been justified. You can run along now because I know insults from you would be your next move.

Your argument has being thrashed immediately you said human Judge are qualified but God is a more higher Judge is not qualified, you nailed yourself bro.

PastorAIO:


Indeed. It is blatantly Canaanite in every aspect. The same world view, the same beliefs in sacrifices etc.....

For example the sacrifice of the King of Moab.
Moab was at war with Israel and Israel was prevailing. In a desperate bid to escape the King of Moab sacrificed this first born son and subsequently a great wrath fell on the Israelites and Moab managed to free itself.

What is of note here, though it was not an Hebrew sacrifice but a moabite sacrifice, is that the writers believe thoroughly in the efficacy of the sacrifice. The reason the Moabites escaped in the writers opinion is because they sacrificed the first born son of their King. There was certainly a belief in the efficacy of such a sacrifice.

2Kings 3
26When the king of Moab saw that the battle was going against him, he took with him 700 swordsmen to break through, opposite the king of Edom, but they could not. 27Then he took his oldest son who was to reign in his place and offered him for a burnt offering on the wall. And there came great wrath against Israel. And they withdrew from him and returned to their own land.

This passage in Kings was very disturbing to me back when I was a believer. Why would a human sacrifice cause the god supported army to be defeated? It was just too strange to consider.

Steep:
before Gen 6vv6 something entered God's creation which is sin.

God does not dwell in darkness rather psalm 18:11, 97 is metaphorically referring to the mystery of God's presence.

God does not try to know man's heart rather he tries and searched out his heart, which means he expose and judge the heart of man.

non of this scriptures says God is unjust.

If you are talking of jahpeth, God never command him neither did scripture say God received it, there is no where in the bible where God commanded human sacrifice, God forbade it in Israel.
Isaac was never sacrificed, it was a test to Abraham.


God didn't lie, the spirit of lie that came up was an evil spirit, God permitted the evil spirit to decieve Ahab because Ahab loved false prophecies, God himself revealed the truth to Micah to tell Ahab that it was the spirit of lie that influenced the false prophets.



Christ never used sword, Jesus telling his disciples to get a sword was symbolical.

matt6:5-6 was referring to private prayer not public prayer.


Adultery is not allowed, but an adulterer can be forgiven if he or she confesses and turn away from it.


Jesus went into Galilee many times both before John was sent to prison and after he was arrested

I hope these help you

This is brilliant, I love the way you interpreted this verses.

[quote author=Nellyfrancis157 post=109331281]
Two Bible verses might look similar but they might not actually be similar. The Bible is not faulty at all but when people cannot give the right interpretations to the Bible they will just assume that it is faulty.
As Christians, we are not even meant to criticize the Bible. If some verses even seem confusing to you. You are meant to ask for the right interpretations to them, you don't have to doubt the Bible or make up your mind that there are contradictions in the Bible before you ask your questions.