@ Negro Ntns

Well Oramfe does really seem to be an alternate spelling of Aramfe mentioned in the text you linked to, so the accounts of Aramfe given there would also be part of the stories about Oramfe. It seems certain that they are the same, but whether the name is really Aramfe or really Oramfe isn't obvious and one of the two slightly different names may just be a dialect variation on the other original.

I can't tell you any more than the little that I've read about Oramfe, so if you want more in-depth information, perhaps speaking with someone besides yourself with a deep knowledge of Yoruba religion or history would be a good idea.

I've read that Oramfe was originally an actual person, who settled a dispute between Oduduwa and his rival Obatala or Orisa-nla (Oramfe acted as a mediator), was later invited to Ondo where he played some role in assisting the kingdom of Ondo, and then was later deified as the god of thunder. It's not clear (to me at least) whether he was a ruler of Ife that preceded both Obatala and Oduduwa to Ife or someone who came later than both, but he seems to have been a very important figure to be deified and to be held in high esteem in Ife. He is apparently known as the god of thunder in Ife, Ilesa, and Ondo, but not known outside of that area. That's a very brief summary of what I've pieced together from various sources, but there are more detailed studies of Oramfe that I have come across but haven't been able to access.

These are three studies of Oramfe:

"Oramfe: Salvation and Tradition among the Ondo-Yoruba" by Jacob Olupona

"Oramfe: myths, rituals of cosmization" by Jacob Olupona

"Mythical images, historical thought, and Ondo religion: the Oramfe myth as clue to Ondo-Yoruba identity" by Olatunde Lawuyi

If I could access these I would post the contents of these articles or detailed summaries but I can't. Sorry I don't have more information. As I said before, I just know who he is (a god of thunder and a mediator), but don't know what deeper significance he had originally or has today.

tpia@:
in all your studies, you didnt come across anything telling you african empires dealt in slaves?

Of course if you, dear friend.
Unfortunately you are right, talk about Africa is to associate it with chains and slavery. Slavery, unfortunately, I do not know if he finished in the XXI century.
I do not associate the chain of Oduduwa with slavery.
I associate African slavery, with the Arab and European chains.
Not that of Oduduwa.
That's what I pretended to express.
But perhaps you and I are talking about the same.

My respects.

Dudu_Negro:

Ptolomeus, thank you very much. The whole point of sharing with one another here is to increase in our understanding and growth. I have learnt from many people here what I didn't know and I have also shared a lot of what I know here. Again, thank you for your kind words.

To get at the root of Yoruba language it is important to understand Yoruba rituals. The Yoruba we speak today is modern and has lost the ancient tongue. In ancient times, communication in Yoruba language revolves around our cosmological beliefs and those beliefs were documented in art forms.

These stories of the beginning and descent are very old and dated far back into the beginning of Ife. Everyone of the story, in one version or another, is also documented in Semitic scriptures. The story of a wrongdoing in the garden of Eden, the expulsion, the divine decree, the covenant of the Kingdoms, the desecration of Earth by mankind, the flood, the drunkeness and the snatch of the sack, the noble beginnings of the races, . . . and so on and so forth. On the surface the stories are contradictory and confusing and creates division. The spirit of the story however contain one consistent and indivisible truth. In all of these too the nature of the elements is revealed to mankind. For example the fire element. It is said that Aramfe gave Ogun iron with which to soften and till the land and bring good things to mankind. In the battle between Oduduwa and Orisa, Ogun was in Oduduwa's camp. But Ogun shared his power with mankind and they learnt the secrets of the iron. But in the same narration we also learnt that Aramfe dispatched vulture to deliver fire to mankind so the goodness of it can come to their benefits. But what is fire? It is said that while man was created from earth, jinns were created from fire. Each of the element - Earth, Water, Fire, Air - exist in dual form. Duality, or two, is an essence of the cosmos itself.

When our SPIRIT is seized by fire it manifests in truth with the divine order - constructive outcomes. When our EGO is seized by fire it manifests in a different way - destructive outcomes. When you combine an EGO under the influence of fire with the power of Ogun (the secrets of iron), then you end up with cudgels and gadgets and armory for shedding blood.

I do not speak Yoruba, and I understand that sometimes the same word can mean different things ....
But the word "ARA" actually does not mean "BODY"? (in the sense of material body, physical body).
It is a question that I have been generated with the last comment.
And as always I beg you not understand I'm doing criticism, quite the contrary ... his comments shed much light to my humble knowledge.

Regarding your comment on the modern Yoruba language and the former, I have in my possession aduras to Orisa, which come from the days of slavery. It would be of interest to me that you (and why not, and other partners) give me your opinion on the dialect used in these aduras. What do you think possible?

From already thank you for your wisdom and spirit of collaboration.
I remain at your service
Very friendly

PhysicsQED: @ Negro Ntns

Well Oramfe does really seem to be an alternate spelling of Aramfe mentioned in the text you linked to, so the accounts of Aramfe given there would also be part of the stories about Oramfe. It seems certain that they are the same, but whether the name is really Aramfe or really Oramfe isn't obvious and one of the two slightly different names may just be a dialect variation on the other original.

I can't tell you any more than the little that I've read about Oramfe, so if you want more in-depth information, perhaps speaking with someone besides yourself with a deep knowledge of Yoruba religion or history would be a good idea.

I've read that Oramfe was originally an actual person, who settled a dispute between Oduduwa and his rival Obatala or Orisa-nla (Oramfe acted as a mediator), was later invited to Ondo where he played some role in assisting the kingdom of Ondo, and then was later deified as the god of thunder. It's not clear (to me at least) whether he was a ruler of Ife that preceded both Obatala and Oduduwa to Ife or someone who came later than both, but he seems to have been a very important figure to be deified and to be held in high esteem in Ife. He is apparently known as the god of thunder in Ife, Ilesa, and Ondo, but not known outside of that area. That's a very brief summary of what I've pieced together from various sources, but there are more detailed studies of Oramfe that I have come across but haven't been able to access.

These are three studies of Oramfe:

"Oramfe: Salvation and Tradition among the Ondo-Yoruba" by Jacob Olupona

"Oramfe: myths, rituals of cosmization" by Jacob Olupona

"Mythical images, historical thought, and Ondo religion: the Oramfe myth as clue to Ondo-Yoruba identity" by Olatunde Lawuyi

If I could access these I would post the contents of these articles or detailed summaries but I can't. Sorry I don't have more information. As I said before, I just know who he is (a god of thunder and a mediator), but don't know what deeper significance he had originally or has today.

Physics,

From what you shared, yes, there is no doubt that Aramfe/Oramfe are same individual. On the direct connection with Ondo, I will find the author's assertion questionable. It is great that many Yorubas are documenting the history of the land but it seems to me that in absence of a regulating authority to spot-check or review and authenticate what is written, writers are taking liberties to embellish the history of their lands, giving an account that is at cross-purpose with the authentic source in Ife.

The Yoruba states were derived subsequent to Oduduwa's reign and the seven were - Orangun, Popo, Sabe, Owu, Bini, Oyo and Ketu.

Ondo would be a much later founding as a result of settled influences from Orangun and Bini. There is no way Oduduwa or Obatala, whether in their physical presence or by mythical narrations could have had direct parts in Ondo history. So I don't know how or where "Kingdom of Ondo" came about. These two authors - Olupona and Lawuyi cannot be taken to be authorities on the origins of Yoruba, they very well could be experts on Ondo history.

Ptolomeus:



I do not speak Yoruba, and I understand that sometimes the same word can mean different things ....
But the word "ARA" actually does not mean "BODY"? (in the sense of material body, physical body).
It is a question that I have been generated with the last comment.
And as always I beg you not understand I'm doing criticism, quite the contrary ... his comments shed much light to my humble knowledge.

Regarding your comment on the modern Yoruba language and the former, I have in my possession aduras to Orisa, which come from the days of slavery. It would be of interest to me that you (and why not, and other partners) give me your opinion on the dialect used in these aduras. What do you think possible?

From already thank you for your wisdom and spirit of collaboration.
I remain at your service
Very friendly

Ptolomeus,

I am not offended, I don't see your questions as criticism at all.

Yes, a word in Yoruba can have many meanings if it is written in "free-flow" style; that is without diacritics - the marks on top and bottom of the vowels and consonants. These markings guide the intonation and hence the specific word and meaning.

Ara - body, is the one I spoke in reference to ARAmfe. This ara carries the idea of moisture content. The body indeed has a high ratio of water and fluid and so the meaning and the idea, as well its point of reference in the context of that narrative of creation of man are all consistent.

The aduras in use in the Americas are influenced by the various foreign tongues that came in contact with them, so in their old usage would have ranged from the Egba, Ijebu and Oyo Yoruba tongues. The old Yoruba itself, the one spoken in Ife and its direct seven states was very close to ancient Hebrew tongue. Even in today usage, when you track rites and customs of the Yorubas with the rites and creeds in the Old testament, there is no dispute that there is a direct intimacy between the two.

If you follow the trail of certain Odus of Ifa, and then you go to Genesis and read about Noah, you will come to the conclusion that Noah was a babalawo. There are many instances of the closeness, even right into Exodus.

Dudu_Negro:

Ptolomeus,

I am not offended, I don't see your questions as criticism at all.

Yes, a word in Yoruba can have many meanings if it is written in "free-flow" style; that is without diacritics - the marks on top and bottom of the vowels and consonants. These markings guide the intonation and hence the specific word and meaning.

Ara - body, is the one I spoke in reference to ARAmfe. This ara carries the idea of moisture content. The body indeed has a high ratio of water and fluid and so the meaning and the idea, as well its point of reference in the context of that narrative of creation of man are all consistent.

The aduras in use in the Americas are influenced by the various foreign tongues that came in contact with them, so in their old usage would have ranged from the Egba, Ijebu and Oyo Yoruba tongues. The old Yoruba itself, the one spoken in Ife and its direct seven states was very close to ancient Hebrew tongue. Even in today usage, when you track rites and customs of the Yorubas with the rites and creeds in the Old testament, there is no dispute that there is a direct intimacy between the two.

If you follow the trail of certain Odus of Ifa, and then you go to Genesis and read about Noah, you will come to the conclusion that Noah was a babalawo. There are many instances of the closeness, even right into Exodus.

Thank you very much dear friend
A perfect and profound explanation.
I beg you not to stop posting.
Your comments are really splendid!

Kind regards!

Dudu_Negro:

Physics,

From what you shared, yes, there is no doubt that Aramfe/Oramfe are same individual. On the direct connection with Ondo, I will find the author's assertion questionable. It is great that many Yorubas are documenting the history of the land but it seems to me that in absence of a regulating authority to spot-check or review and authenticate what is written, writers are taking liberties to embellish the history of their lands, giving an account that is at cross-purpose with the authentic source in Ife.

The Yoruba states were derived subsequent to Oduduwa's reign and the seven were - Orangun, Popo, Sabe, Owu, Bini, Oyo and Ketu.

Ondo would be a much later founding as a result of settled influences from Orangun and Bini. There is no way Oduduwa or Obatala, whether in their physical presence or by mythical narrations could have had direct parts in Ondo history. So I don't know how or where "Kingdom of Ondo" came about. These two authors - Olupona and Lawuyi cannot be taken to be authorities on the origins of Yoruba, they very well could be experts on Ondo history.

Although I don't know if there is definitive evidence that those seven states existed before others, your statement that Ondo would be much later than the era when Oduduwa or Obatala was around does seem to be correct from available information. It's unfortunate that I'm unable to find out from those articles everything that is stated about the relationship between Oramfe and Ondo beyond the little that I've read because he does seem to have been an important figure.

Asar Imhotep has offered a translation of Oduduwa as Spirit of Black Character.

Oduduwa (Olofin) had a son named Ajaka (cognate with Isaac) and 2 grandsons, one of whom is Oloyo also known as Oranyan and the other became the Alado or eponymous ancestor of the Edo people. The Alado, even though the elder, did not inherit the land. Rather, Oranyan did as he was loved more. Oduduwa met Agboniregun at Ile-Ife who taught the former Ifa. Agboniregun is Orunmila and Orunmila is Ela whose name is written/pronounced by many today as El. This is what I came up with after reading some portions of Johnson's book - The history of the Yorubas.

In the book 'Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible' Jacob is mentioned as having the epithet Orion attached to him. Orion is the Greek way of pronouncing/saying Oranyan which is short for Oranmiyan. I want to believe that Oduduwa is an epithet for Abraham, and that both Oranmiyan and Oduduwa appeared twice on the scene (I don't see why atunwa is not possible here, especially since each of us have specific tasks).

As for the chain, I have wondered if an individual with a special assignment from Olodumare descends from orun to aiye by holding on to the chain.

PhysicsQED:

Although I don't know if there is definitive evidence that those seven states existed before others, your statement that Ondo would be much later than the era when Oduduwa or Obatala was around does seem to be correct from available information. It's unfortunate that I'm unable to find out from those articles everything that is stated about the relationship between Oramfe and Ondo beyond the little that I've read because he does seem to have been an important figure.

Since Ondo itself grew into prominence from resulting contact with Orangun to the North and Bini to the East, it will be nice to see what these places say about Oramfe, if anything.

amor4ce: Asar Imhotep has offered a translation of Oduduwa as Spirit of Black Character.

Oduduwa (Olofin) had a son named Ajaka (cognate with Isaac) and 2 grandsons, one of whom is Oloyo also known as Oranyan and the other became the Alado or eponymous ancestor of the Edo people. The Alado, even though the elder, did not inherit the land. Rather, Oranyan did as he was loved more. Oduduwa met Agboniregun at Ile-Ife who taught the former Ifa. Agboniregun is Orunmila and Orunmila is Ela whose name is written/pronounced by many today as El. This is what I came up with after reading some portions of Johnson's book - The history of the Yorubas.

In the book 'Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible' Jacob is mentioned as having the epithet Orion attached to him. Orion is the Greek way of pronouncing/saying Oranyan which is short for Oranmiyan.[Toorn, K. van der, et al. (eds.), Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible. Leiden: Brill. 1995.] I want to believe that Oduduwa is an epithet for Abraham, and that both Oranmiyan and Oduduwa appeared twice on the scene (I don't see why atunwa is not possible here, especially since each of us have specific tasks).

As for the chain, I have wondered if an individual with a special assignment from Olodumare descends from orun to aiye by holding on to the chain.

Amor4ce,

This brings up inquiries into the person of Oranyan. The only documented record we have in Yorubaland about him is what is left in the Oranyan staff. I am of the opinion that the markings on the staff are symbolic and a dedication to either Oduduwa. If so, then Oduduwa as the earthly persona of the heavenly Aramfe is on mark.

The punch marks on the staff depict the zodiacal symbol of Neptune - The Trident.

The interpretations of the inscription and Trident symbol could be considered quite speculative since we don't have detailed pictures of the staff - I wonder why - and a part was broken off during a storm. We also need the versions of Oranmiyan/Yoruba history from Ile-Ife and other Yoruba domains instead of Oyo as I suspect the latter might have distorted/spun tales for political reasons.

http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/spirituality-connect-your-center/8910-oranminyan-brotherhood.html

I recently read some portions of Johnson's book and noted that:

Asara (Terah) was a priest of Lamurudu (Nimrod) and had three sons. One of the three sons is known today to the Yoruba as Oduduwa (Abraham), and the other two, the kings of Gogobiri and Kukawa, are Nahor and Haran. Oduduwa, whose royal title was Ọlọfin, travelled to the land of Canaan where he met Agbọ-niregun (one of the appellations by which Ọrunmila is known to Ifa devotees) who taught Ifa to the former. It is believed that Ẹla’s (transliterated as El) first incarnation was as Ọrunmila.

Oduduwa had children but the heir was Ajaka (I suspect that Ọkanbi is an appellation pointing to such) who encountered lots of animosity as recorded in Genesis 26:12-13. Ajaka fathered a set of male twins, Ọranmiyan (Jacob) who became Ọlọyọ (king) of Ọyọ, and Ado (Edo/Edom) who became Alado (king) of Ado. Ọranmiyan, though the younger, inherited the land while the Ado/Edo was sent away (Genesis 36:6-7). Isẹdalẹ, the other name for Ado/Edo, is a compound name with the main part Isẹ corresponding to Esau.

The translations (insane?delusional?) by many that Edo(m) means red and Esau means hairy is only scratching the surface since irun is Yoruba for hair and pupa is red, hence the a closer look at the various ways the do and sẹ tones should prove useful in verifying the translations. There is no ‘m’ sound in Ado/Edo, which points to an error in using the root d-m to compare the names Adam and Edom.

Origin of Gobirawa and their tribal marks


Written by Sadiq Aliyu Saturday, 21 November 2009 23:27

Origin: According to Alhaji Abdulhamid Balarabe Salihu, the present Sarkin Gobir, Gobirawa migrated from Misira, the present day Egypt. He said they were descendants of prophet Nuhu (Noah) and they left Egypt in protest of the harsh leadership style of the then Pharaoh and went to Gubur where they probably got the name – Gobirawa.
They later moved to Yemen where they waged war against their host community and were victorious. He said war was part of their life style as they were very brave warriors and whenever they conquered a place, they migrated to another until when they reached Libya. From there they also continued moving west ward into Sahara desert and founded a town called Azbin, now dominated by Tuaregs. During that period Azbinawa were scattered but they requested Gobirawa to hand over Azbin to them whenever they were leaving. They left Azbin and advanced westward again in to Sahara and founded another town called Magali, and later Surukal all in Niger Republic. After a short while they continued migrating until when they reached Birnin Lalle and Gwararramu parts of which are now in Nigeria and Niger Republic. Between 15th to 16th century during the period of Sarkin Zamfara, Abarshi whose capital was situated at Katanga, he married one of the Sarkin Gobir`s daughters called Fara who gave birth to Ibrahim Babari who later became Sarkin Gobir. Before he ascended the throne, he engaged Sarkin Zamfara in a war of wits and charms and he over powered him. As a result of that Sarkin Zamfara became scared of Babari and wanted to harm him in retaliation, but his elder sister returned him back home and was made Sarkin Gobir. Babari however begged Sarkin Zamfara to give him some land to settle but people warned Sarkin Zamfara not to allow Gobirawa to settle within his territory because they would later occupy the entire land. However, war ensued between them later and Gobirawa defeated Sarkin Zamfara and occupied Alkalawa, around 16th to 17th century.

War-like nature of Gobirawa: Every tribe in black Africa has its peculiar nature for which it is identified. Gobirawa are known for brevity, dexterity and show of manliness. They are steadfast and more often than not, don’t tolerate any slightest provocation. Sarkin Gobir Abdulhamid explained that during the famous Bawa Jan Gwarzo who ruled Gobir around 17th century, it was reported that even O’cock didn’t crow at all because of the spiritual powers he possessed. Throughout the series of wars they fought, Gobirawa had never surrendered even when they were over powered. They would rather die in the battle field than to retreat. An average Bagobiri believes in victory in whatever fight or conflict he finds himself; and that is why in a popular Hausa expression the land of Gobir is jokingly referred to Gobir gidan fada – meaning house of trouble or fighting.

According to Sarkin Gobir Abdulhamid, Bawa Jan Gwarzo never actually engaged Usman Danfodiyo in war when he settled at Akalawa. As a matter of fact Danfodiyo even taught the children of Bawa which included Yunfa, Atiku, Bello and Mayaki. It was reported that Danfodiyo even admonished them not to engage in any conflict among them. However, Sarkin Gobir averred that it were people close to them that ignited trouble between Bawa and Danfodiyo as a result of which Danfodiyo left Alkalawa and continued with his Jihad movement in other parts of Sokoto Caliphate.

Tribal marks: Alhaji Abdulhamid who is the 390th Sarkin Gobir, said originally, Gobirawa had no tribal marks but because of the series of wars they engaged in and their migratory trend, they formed their unique tribal marks for identification, so that wherever they go, they could easily identify themselves. He said whenever they wanted to migrate they went along with their kins and kith, without leaving behind any of their own. Another reason was that during inter tribal wars Gobirawa used tribal marks to identify their people so that they would not be attacked.

Even in the present time that such wars are over, Gobirawa still maintain the tradition of cutting marks on their face without minding whether it would deform the facial appearance or not. The marks are cut on a baby`s cheeks when it is seven days old, that is on the day of its naming ceremony. But with time, it is now done after two weeks when the child might have a bit strength to withstand the pain. The marks are carefully patterned so as to differentiate them from others that look similar like that of Kabawa in Kebbi State, Zamfarawa of Zamfara and Barebari of Borno. The tribal marks of Gobirawa contain seven lines on the right cheek and six on the left, while in some cases, they only make one single cut on both cheeks, and any body who knows Gobirawa would easily identify such people as one. But in the case of Kabawa, Zamfarawa and Barebari, their own have much more number of lines than that of Gobirawa.

Relationship of Gobirawa with Yorubas: According to Sarkin Gobir Abdulhamid, the relationship between them and Yorubas dated back to the period of Bawa Jan Gwarzo who gave out his daughter for marriage to a Yoruba man during the Jihad movement. He said when Jan Gwarzo advanced to Yoruba land with the mission to conquer the west, the Yoruba opted for truce rather than to engage him in a war and submitted themselves to him. As a result of that cordial relationship between them ensued and they requested him to give them one his daughters for marriage which he did. In accordance with Hausa culture which Gobirawa practice, there is always a traditional joke between cousins, as such, Gobirawa regard the Yoruba as cousins because they believed that Yoruba were begotten by the daughter of Bawa Jan Gwarzo.

http://sundaytrust.com.ng/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1998:origin-of-gobirawa-and-their-tribal-marks&catid=44:feature&Itemid=135

From Alhaji Abdulhamid Balarabe Salihu’s account of Gobirawa history, my take is that:
(1) Nuhu is not Noah but Nahor – Genesis 11:24 or 26
(2) the said relationship between the Yoruba and the Gobirawa as cousins after the king of the latter gave out his daughter in marriage to the king of the former is similar to the Biblical account in Genesis 24 of Abraham’s son Isaac marrying Rebecca his cousin and descendant of Nahor.
(3) since the Hausa are descended from the Biblical Assyrians it might be possible that the word ‘Hausa’ is etymologically related to Assur/Assyria.
(4) further evidence of the relationship between the Yoruba and Hausa can be seen in a comparison of names of Hausa peoples with the Yoruba progenitor
(i) Gobir – Gobira[b]wa[/b]
(ii) Azbin – Azbina[b]wa[/b]
(iii) – Alkala[b]wa[/b]
(iv) Zamfara – Zamfara[b]wa[/b]
(vi) Hausa – Hausa[b]wa[/b]
(v) Odu? Odudu? Dudu? – Odudu[b]wa[/b] (this should also prove useful in unraveling the actual meaning of ‘Oduduwa’; perhaps the wa in the name does not directly translate to character)

Amor4ce,

I know you once did a post on the significance of the name Dawud or Daud or David in traditional Yoruba customs. Dawud is also spelt Wadud or Awdud. If the ending WA is a place holder for descendency, then Odud is more likely the name. The second U will be added to make the connection in Yoruba as Odudu, but Odud will more likely be the correct name following that logic.

Awdud is a match with Odud and the concept of David, Dawud in the custom is appropriate for a male first born. Oduduwa would have been a Dawud.

I have to do some more reading on this.

I patiently but expectantly await the outcome of your research. Perhaps Hausa language would be useful in this regard.

Here's Prof Lange's hypothesis

On account of the root dôd "beloved" applied in the form mdd to the Semitic chaos deity, Yamm, and the plural ending -āwu > -ūwa, Oduduwa seems to designate a plurality of half-hostile, half-friendly Assyrian kings

Lange Dierk (2011). Origin of the Yoruba and ‘The Lost Tribes of Israel”. Anthropos 106: 579-595. <page 586>

This is true story of Oduduwa,take it or leave it.Your opinion cant change it $ is therefore irrelevant.


Once upon a time, there lived a community of people(yorubas) who lived under an iroko tree... They were so much at peace until a certain day wen an individual(Izoduwa) wandered from the bush(after being banished from benin kingdom).. On getting to the community, he realised these pple were fast asleep and there was not space for him under the big iroko tree to sleep... So he decided to climb to d top of the tree to pass the night(superman tins).. On waking up the following morning, he realised this community of people were awake already and didn't even notice him up there... So he decided to climb down wt a rope(Tarzan tins)... This community of people were so amazed as they neva saw a tin like dis before and so they chose him as a king... 3000 years later, the descendants of both parties are on nairaland fighting for supremacy... Now tell me, who is to be blamed?... The gods, Izoduwa, the community of pple or the iroko tree?....

A lots of story on oduduwa' emergency I think the fact remain that he met people in ife when he came and later became their ruler and defeated their oppressors, but where he come from, this has become confusing debating even in the past. Thank u ppl for those points raised I learned new ones

Interesting and captivating thread spanning over two years...

I'm fairly sure I've written about this interesting issue before on here so I don't want to repeat myself. Suffice to say that Oduduwa is almost certainly a mythological figure--sometimes regarded as male in the most recent references, but very often considered a female Goddess in the older 19th century literature. Claims to knowing the "true" story of Oduduwa in the royal lineages of modern Ife, Benin etc are coloured by modern political agendas and considerations about hierarchy, ethnic prestige and promotion, since they ignore much of the evidence in historical literature and base their claims on family myths or partially discredited local histories. These issues are similar to the roots of Hausa speculation about origins in Mecca or Igbo speculations about origins in Israel--examples of ethnic/religious prestige-seeking, since their verified West African histories are not well-known or taught to the masses.

Also--"ara" is the Yoruba word for thunder and is totally distinct from "ara", the word for "body"/"family"/"assembly" etc. 'Ora' is a dialectical variation, as suggested earlier. 'Aramfe' should probably be interpreted as 'Ara Ni Ife'--'Ara in/of Ife', a precursor to Sango as a deity of thunder. Sango was introduced from Oyo with well-known Nupe roots there.

Rev. Ajayi Crowther's 'A Vocabulary of the Yoruba Language' is useful reference material on these things for anyone interested.

From the sky on serious note, he was just a myth.

Rgp92: From the sky on serious note, he was just a myth.

then so is Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Elijah and Jesus

n-guage:
How are we sure Oduduwa isn't like the Columbus of Yorubaland? What I am trying to say is that it is very possible that people already lived in that particular part before Oduduwa came from Ethiopia, Saudi-Arabia or wherever he came from. There has to be a reason he is regarded as the "father/founder," but what is that reason?
Was he the first to unite the people?
Was he the first King when the people decided to choose one?
Did he come from a "more developed" culture and thus was able to influence a lot of things in Yorubaland?

. I watch a film titled oduduwa and learnt there that he was the one that brought civilisation to them but he met these people with their language and culture.in fact,some of those that are heading the sffairs of the state initially didn't accept him as their leader but majority of them accepted because ifa had already told them about him

Abagworo: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: kay_pumpin on June 27, 2009, 01:20 AM
Oduduwa in Yoruba is translated as Odu- to- da- iwa meaning the oracle that created(or bequathed) good behaviour.




Odutodaiwa is different from Oduduwa.

Yoruba language is very specific.



Even though difficult to believe,Oduduwa might have been from Igbo area.The name Oduduwa or odua is still born till this day in Igboland.I have an old relative that bears the name.

wHat we must all know is that oduduwa is not yoruba's name. It was the name the man was bearing before he came to yoruba people let us just find the root of the name and the tribe that is bearing such in the world

bimx19: . I watch a film titled oduduwa and learnt there that he was the one that brought civilisation to them but he met these people with their language and culture.in fact,some of those that are heading the sffairs of the state initially didn't accept him as their leader but majority of them accepted because ifa had already told them about him

I watched the movie a long time ago
Oduduwa came from a chain in the movie and the Ife people were wearing leaves

I think Ife was more civilized than they portrayed in "Oduduwa"

bimx19: wHat we must all know is that oduduwa is not yoruba's name. It was the name the man was bearing before he came to yoruba people let us just find the root of the name and the tribe that is bearing such in the world

says who?

oduduwa is of pure ancient Ife language

The. Word oduduwa is an igala word meaning he comes from God but the truth is that the yorubas inherit fear from Oduduwa when he came to Idah he was running away from his brother so out of fear he refuse to talk so the igalas called him oduduwa. He later married one of them if u look at yoruba nupe igala and benin there is a connection am not an Igala nor Yoruba but these is the truth ask any Igala to explain the meaning of Oduduwa

Emaanye: The. Word oduduwa is an igala word meaning he comes from God but the truth is that the yorubas inherit fear from Oduduwa when he came to Idah he was running away from his brother so out of fear he refuse to talk so the igalas called him oduduwa. He later married one of them if u look at yoruba nupe igala and benin there is a connection am not an Igala nor Yoruba but these is the truth ask any Igala to explain the meaning of Oduduwa

Thanks for this piece of history.

Emaanye: The. Word oduduwa is an igala word meaning he comes from God but the truth is that the yorubas inherit fear from Oduduwa when he came to Idah he was running away from his brother so out of fear he refuse to talk so the igalas called him oduduwa. He later married one of them if u look at yoruba nupe igala and benin there is a connection am not an Igala nor Yoruba but these is the truth ask any Igala to explain the meaning of Oduduwa

Hmm. So are you saying Oduduwa was igala man or he just stayed in igala territory and married there?

Origins of IFÁ Tradition before Òrúnmìlà, Odùdúwà and ÒÒŞÀ, the Yoruba lost history
Òrúnmìlà Èlà mo yin Àború, Òrúnmìlà Èlà mo yin Àboyè, Òrúnmìlà Èlà mo yin
Àboşíşe
¡Ogbó, ató, àsúre, Ìwòrì wòfún. OLÓFIN á gbà é, BABA ODÙDÚWÀ á gbà é, ÒRÚNMÌLÀ ÈLÀ á gbà é!
– May You Have Long Life, with the Spiritual Blessing of Ifá Odù Ìwòrì Wòfún (Who Opens the Divine Portal of the Grace of OLÓDÙMARÈ), May the Blessing of OLÓFIN (Conscious Manifestation of GOD), Baba ODÙDÚWÀ, and ÒRÚNMÌLÀ ÈLÀ be upon you!
Aláàfia se a ni – May the Peace be with You! A Teaching by the Égún TATA G:. (A Spiritual Emissary Égún of de Baba Odùdúwà)

Origins of IFÁ Tradition before Òrúnmìlà, Odùdúwà and ÒÒŞÀ, the lost Yoruba history
This information comes from the a conversation with an Égún who is a Spiritual Emissary of Baba Odùdúwà, we wanted him to clarify some points about the history of Ifá, Òrúnmìlà an Baba Odùdúwà and ÒÒŞÀ Tradition. July 3, 2010, in Mexico. Baba Odùdúwà was born among an ancient lost tribe called the ARON, which was in the central part of the African continent, around 20,000 years ago. Baba Odùdúwà has confirmed this when he has come through his Elègún (Medium), around that time period, the Egyptian ancient civilization was also beginning. Odùdúwà was capture by the Egyptian army of those times, he was taken as a slave, later he became a slave warrior in the Egyptian army. He was in the Egyptian army with his friend OGUN. Odùdúwà in his travels with the Egyptian army, went to a place, were he found the Sacred and Holy Rock of OLÓFIN, that event changed his life forever. The OLÓFIN sacred rock, that rock was a meteorite that fell on the African continent an ancient times. There was another Meteorite that fell, that left behind the OLOSI Rock, that was in another area of Africa.

Baba Odùdúwà became a famous warrior in Egypt, and then later he was liberated from slavery. Odùdúwà traveled east with Ògún, and along the way other disciples gathered. He returned to west looking for a promised land, until they found the land of OYO, in the actual area of Nigeria. When Baba Odùdúwà reaches that area he was with Ògún and other 15 Elders who were Omo Obàtálá, that was Odùdúwà with the 16 Elders. Odùdúwà and Ògún build the Yoruba kingdom, the 16 Elders became the 16 Kings, who ruled 16 lands in the Yoruba kingdom. Odùdúwà had the divine knowledge and self consecrated himself into the Mysteries of ÒÒŞÀ Tradition, because no one consecrated him to ÒÒŞÀ. Later he started to consecrate people to the ÒÒŞÀ tradition, one of the first ones was Ògún. At that time there was a Divine Decree from OLÓFIN (Conscious manifestation of God), where 400humans would reach a divine state on a kind of deity, called ÒRÌŞÀ. 200 severe ones, and 200 peaceful ones, plus ÒŞUN who came as an extra one to be included among the400, making them a total of 401 ÒRÌŞÀs. The ones who could reach that state of ÒRÌŞÀ, were the ones who had the ÒÒŞÀ Initiation on consecration, they had their ORÍ (head
–
Consciousness) open and scratched with a sacred Symbol. The ones who were consecrated and reach the merit level, when they departed from the earthly plane of manifestation became an ÒRÌŞÀ. The first one to reach that level of ÒRÌŞÀ at those times, was OGUN, the last one was OYA (the number 400), the ÒŞUN came and she was added as the 401 ÒRÌŞÀ, the smallest but the most closed to OLÓFIN’S Heart. Those 401 ÒRÌŞÀ’s corresponded the 401 IRUNMOLE Energies that make possible the manifestation of and ÒRÌŞÀ in different parts of the universe. ÒRÌŞÀ means an Ori (consciousness) open to the Divine.
Òrúnmìlà was originally called “Ódú” (different from his wife, Odù, the same three letters but different vowel intonation). Ódú was born in a near land closed to the Yorubaland. When he was born, he started to talk right away, he was a super special child, born from Yemaya (Yemoyale Asesu, the original road of the paths of Yemaya) when she had a relationship with Oshumare. The IFÁ Tradition began around 1,000 years ago before the birth of Òrúnmìlà. The IFÁ Tradition was a tradition of Wisdom, from a nomad group of people, who later establish themselves in the area of IFE. Ifá means Wisdom of Nature. The wisdom and knowledge they transmitted was proverbs, Wisdom stories, magic, ỌFỌ̀ ÀŞẸ (power words /Magical incantations). Òrúnmìlà received the transmission of the Ifá tradition, later he develop a method of Divination based on the Ifá knowledge and the knowledge of the16 Principles, the ÒÒŞÀ Oracle (that was earlier and more ancient than the Ifá oracle with the Ikin) Òrúnmìlà self consecrated himself as an AWO (Diviner) of IFÁ, he then started to consecrated people to the Ifá traditions. Òrúnmìlà became the first Awo Ifá. Òrúnmìlà made the Ifá Tradition famous. Òrúnmìlà meets Baba Odùdúwà, they both share knowledge they had and secrets, Odùdúwà shared the secrets of death and ÒÒŞÀ tradition, and Òrúnmìlà shared the Ifá tradition with Odùdúwà. Òrúnmìlà consecrated Baba Odùdúwà to Ifá. Òrúnmìlà was the first AWONI (The Awo-Diviner of the Oni-King). Before Baba Odùdúwà, there were ancient ÒRÌŞÀs like ESHU, who was worshiped and appeased by people. Other ÒRÌŞÀs before Odùdúwà came, were Agayu, Òsányìn and Nana Burunku. Baba Odùdúwà said some time ago, that the first traces of the ÒÒŞÀ Tradition were around 50,000 years ago. Around that time, Olókun was walking over the planet as a Living GOD. I was intrigue by this, and I asked Tata G:. about that, how was that possible, how it happened, and he said: OLÓKUN is an “IRÚNMOLÈ NLÁ” (A great Universal
Irúnmolè or Universal Divine Conscious Energy), he is like second in hierarchy to OLÓFIN (GOD), and Olókun it’s a kind of a GOD, that’s why he is not an ÉGÚN (Spirit) neither he is an ÒRÌŞÀ (Deity who before was human). OLÓKUN had the divine Power to do many things, he uses his power to manifest a human material body and walk among the humans, he was manifested as a Blue Man (the skin tone was Blue). Olókun after some time decides to spread his essence in the ocean, and he went to live at the bottom of the Ocean.
That’s why some people think that Olókun was an Égún, because he was able to manifest a material body, but he didn’t die, the just went underwater. When Baba Odùdúwà came, he had to make a pact with Olókun to save the surface of the planet Earth of Olókun and Agana Eri wrath. Agana Eri was a daughter of Olókun, very severe. This manifestation of Olókun is OLÓKUN AYÉ, the Olókun manifestation of the planet Earth. There is the Universal OLÓKUN who rules the deepness and darkness of space, OLÓKUN OBA ÒRÙN. (the other manifestations of Olókun are Olókun Aye, Ìrawo Olókun (Planet of Olókun, Neptune), Ìràwò Olókun (star of Olókun) ). OLÓKUN first manifested in creation, when OLÓFIN first manifested out of the Universal Neutral Energy we called OLÓDÙMARE, there was a kind of a vapor trail left behind, from that OLÓKUN also manifested himself as a conscious divine being. There are other points that we want to find more information, to have the whole story.

Awo IFALENU de ÈGBÈ ÓDÙN OLÓFIN
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The Family of OLÓFIN’S Secret NOTE: PLEASE EXCUSE ANY MISTAKES IN THE TRANSLATION I DID, ITREY MY BEST, IF ANY ONE WANT TO HELP, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

AWO IFALENU
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Facebook: Baba-ifalenu Oyekutekunda

BABA ODÙDÚWÀ`S YORUBA OLÓFIN TRADITION-ÈGBÉ ÓDÙN OLÓFIN
https://www./108007565914853/?fref=ts

tpia:


very interesting points, especially the one about the obelisk.

I do wonder where the Yoruba got the cap design from.

Oranmiyan means My problem or issue has been resolved.

All of Oduduwa's kids' names are in Yoruba. Oduduwa is the only one of his lineage with a non-Yoruba name. Its rather hard to decipher the meaning of his name, so its probably not a Yoruba one. I could be wrong though. However, its not surprising, since Oduduwa himself came from somewhere else prior to becoming the chief ruler in Ife.

Oranmiyan's name was Odede (the hunter has arrived).

Oranmiyan was a nickname.

Oduduwa also had his own Yorubaname.

Historical facts surrounding these people are wrapped in mystery for initiates.

Same way the Ogun (3rd Ooni) had his own name.

Oduduwa became 'Oduduwa', a name from an Ifa verse because he started a new phase in Ife history, hence, the name 'Oduduwa' which in Ife was about starting a new phase.