triplechoice:


Brilliant question. I will answer it immediately because I know you will take your time to read everything before replying .

It's said that the human mind functions in two modes, the unconscious (AKA the subconscious) and the conscious . Everything we experience subjectively within ourselves can come from either of the two .

The operations of the latter is easily seen in the observable human brain .

For instance , we know the part of the brain that is responsible for the sense of Smell ,taste ,sight ,etc. However there's a limit to which the brain can make us perceive anyrhing that come from outside of it

As for the unconscious ,not much is known of how it operates and what part of the brain controls what it does. Most people just assume it's the brain that controls it , and call it the non conscious part of the brain . That assumption is wrong as you shall come to see .

The subconscious mind can make us known directly things the observable human brain is incapable of making us sense or experience at any given time .

With the subconscious, one can have a precognition of an event that is yet to occur or know it before it manifest later. No part of the brain has been identified that can make this happen , yet some persons have this sort of experiences all the time .

The brain together with the central nervous system cannot make us experience anything else apart from what is already stored in it , or what it's programmed to react to. But when that happens ,insisting it's still the brain that has made it happen is foolish and ignorant talk by someone who is not too well informed of the science behind the human body .

Also the subconscious can make it possible to 'see' through walls to know what is happening behind it.,not with the physical eyes of course ,but through what some persons refer to as the third eye .Not an actual eye really ,but it's own unique way of making one perceive reality directly, far better than what the five physical senses can give us.

When the unconscious 'sees ' anything ,it flashes it across the screen of your mind so one is aware of it, and also for the brain to store and process it. But most people are so disconnected from their unconscious, or not fully conscious of their own consciousness , that they are not even aware when this happens within themselves ,

There is no part of the brain that can make one "see" through walls . But some persons have had that kind of experience and when they report it ,,some ignorant persons who believe it's not possible , would dismiss it with , Oh, You were just hallucinating or it was conincidence.

Furthermore ,the subconscious can make anybody perceive the smell of something beyond the normal range of what the brain can detect ..Some humans and animals ,sniffer dogs especially, can sense the 'smell' of an illness,, cancer ,diabetes, etc , weeks or months before it manifest in the human body . The brain is incapable of such function it's limited to only experiencing what is 'there ' already in the body .

And again ,the subsconscious doesn't forget anything. It is not like the brain which forgets easily and cannot store much information or know anything that's not stored within it.

Through hypnosis regression one can recall memories of what one has experienced in the past even to the extent of remembering the exact time one entered the physical body in their mother's womb. If it's possible to remember, through the subconscious , that sort of thing ,which is actually possible with hypnosis ,then ,it would only mean one thing , the real human being is not the same as the body it is believed it emerged from You cannot watch and see your body formimg in your mother's womb before possessing it and still delude yourself into thinking your conscousness or your self has emerged from it. It doesn't make sense .

And finally ,OBEs, which you are yet to accept, is another reason I say consciousness, the real self has not emerged from the brain . Yes , the brain and the central nervous system is what makes us have objective conscousness through the physical body ,but that's not enough reason to conclude it has emergred from it .

My phone, any phone or any other device that's internet enabled , is what gives me presence, or make me come alive on Nairaland, without which nobody can interact with me . Those devices are not me and not responsible for the thoughts I express eventhough it's through them I do so . If they become faulty or damaged, it will affect my presence , or what I try to do get across on this board.( The material plane )



The above analogy, though not perfect ,can help one understand how consciousness ,the real self inside uses a physical body to operate in the material plane . If the brain is dameged ,it is not the being using it that is
directjy affected ,but that only makes it more difficult , or no longer possible to manifest ones intentions through it, since everything coming in and going out then becomes garbled due to the faulty brain . .

The pain we feel when our body gets hurt is to alert us to what has happened withiin it so we can deal with or take care of the problem and continue to using the body . Without this ,you won't know what's going untill the body stops working . But one should know they are not the body , and will depart from it one day .

The human being is much more than its observable physical parts . but unfortunately neuroscientist and others within the scientific community are treating the human being like a machine whose outer body parts and engine once understood ,will make everything fall into place . Unless there is a paradigm shift in the sciences about the human being ,I'm afraid not much will be known . The mystification will continue .

Long time ago when I first started to meditate , I wasn't too sure if what I was doing was worth it or could help me in anyway . The reason for this was because the position of main stream science as at that time was,; meditation was harmful to one's mental health . That it causes depressions and also cannot help you make any meaningful changes within yourself as people who practiced it were claiming .


But my experiences proved otherwise . So I continue ,but with caution .

And now more than 20 years later ,the same scientist are now encouraging people to meditate because they found its helpful for those suffering from depression . Haba!

Well it's still good . It has helped people like me to take the practice more serious since scientist can now confirm it works .


There are meditative techniques to help one separate from the body ,but not easy to master . If you want it fast, then look for individuals with the ability to take you out of your body with your permission . Or join genuine esoteric group to give you the experience during your first initiatiion.

If you don't want to go through that ,then try this , tell you self each night people you go to sleep that you need an experience to confirm if ones consciousness can actually separate from the body . After that don't give it any thought . If it's something you are ready for ,your higher self , the subsconscious , will do everything to make you have the experience so you know the truth about yourself.

So thanks Lordreed for the question. I hope you read all .Most of the things I promised to come with yesterday ,before I was distracted, are contained in it

There is a lot to unpack here so I might have to do it in bits. I am not really settled enough to respond to everything in one go.

This: As for the unconscious, not much is known of how it operates and what part of the brain controls what it does. Most people just assume it's the brain that controls it, and call it the non conscious part of the brain. That assumption is wrong as you shall come to see.

that seems to be the foundation of your response here might be wrong. There are findings that indicate that the subconscious is processed within the subcortical regions of the brain. You can see that here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3393600/
Admittedly that knowledge is still very far from complete, but it challenges the notion that we don't know where in the brain the subconscious is being processed.

LordReed:


There is a lot to unpack here so I might have to do it in bits. I am not really settled enough to respond to everything in one go.

This: As for the unconscious, not much is known of how it operates and what part of the brain controls what it does. Most people just assume it's the brain that controls it, and call it the non conscious part of the brain. That assumption is wrong as you shall come to see.

that seems to be the foundation of your response here might be wrong. There are findings that indicate that the subconscious is processed within the subcortical regions of the brain. You can see that here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3393600/
Admittedly that knowledge is still very far from complete, but it challenges the notion that we don't know where in the brain the subconscious is being processed.

The so called place in the brain where the subconscious is believed to be processed is simply the effects of what is going within it (,the unfathomable subconscious , )

I'm not saying it's not tied to the brain, or is it separate , but insist it has not emerged from it .

Correlation they say ,is not causation .

https://jonlieffmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/FEATURE-LIMITS-OF-iStock_000023595907XSmall.jpg

budaatum:

Well, you did ask me to 0r9ve to you that it was, do it wouldn't exactly be remise if me to assume you thought otherwise.



Your question is as senseless as asking what the source of the universe is. Hopefully, you are aware these things came into existence long before I did and any claim I may make about their source would be in the form of "dem say", which I have derided you for doing on here from the onset and so would not do so myself.

Fact however remains that consciousness, and mind, are inherent in living things which are matter, and thinking otherwise is to assume matter itself came out of thin air.

P.s. You might benefit from downloading and listening to Aristotle extensive writing on this subject.

https://archive.org/download/aristtl/Aristotle/Aristotle%20-%20Metaphysics.m4b

I sure would benefit if you do as it would bring you up to a level where you are competent to discuss the topic. Do note that more modern writings exist too, like Karl Popper for instance. Reading such books will reduce your belief in the rubbish you been spilling here, and give you insight into the relevant skills to help you determine if you think right or wrong.

Because you have a blind spot from viewing reality from a singular position alone ,you say the question is rubbish ..

The question I asked is both an existential and a little bit of a scientific one. ,a natural fallout from the conversation I was having with Reed

Theres nothing wrong or senseless in demanding to know the source of the product one is making use of . Your personal opinion is not fact .. You should know it ,and stop bluffing .

.There are no senseless questions when it comes to the issue of where life has come from and why .

But because you jumped into the conversation like a bot to enforce your nonsense opinions and usual craziness ,you could not see what you walked into , a trap ,that has now exposed you for who you are. A no nothing and half baked individual.


You need to expand your horizon so you stop thinking in black and white

Rosicruciian wrong interpretation of reality has really effected your thinking . Free yourself from that bondage . You mind is no longer yours .

Reading books is good ,but without the necessary practical experience to back them up , one's education is incomplete .

You only share links to books you have read ( II have read them too and even more ) to booster your ego ,but there's no evidence from your display here that they have helped to improve your person . You still behave like child seeking for attention .

budaatum:


Then simply present here the details of your tests instead of asking for anecdotes to be believed please. If one studys your evidence and finds what you found one might end up advertising it for you even if one finds no use for it oneself.

Those who care to listen to you will. I've been partially listening to you because I care too, and what I'm finding is unbelievable.

I never asked anyone to believe in anecdotes since I now they are not reliable

I only mentioned that when I used the analogy of herbal products for clarification .Analogies are never perfect . I expect you to know that .



But because you are seeking to score some cheap points , you deliberately misinterpreted all of it . You should be ashamed of your behaviour at your age .

The truth I know about my self and the human being doesn't rely on any anecdotes , and it's my prerogative to share it here or not

The information I already gave out is enough for you to work with if you really know what you are doing , but you don't .

I m not the only one who know what I know . Go search elsewhere online or even here to meet with such persons and ask for it .

You are not in a position to demand anything from me .

Morever ,you are not trained scientist who can carry out testing and experimentation under close control settings ,that is if you even know what that means because you are scientific illiterate .



And you know what , you are the greatest hypocrite and pretender right now on this furom , deceiving everyone ,not me ,that you are an atheist when you are just a zombie believer in Amorc teachings .

What you practice in your closet is what you come to deny in public to hide who you are .


Provide prove for your Rosicruciian pesudoscience .

You are in bondage and don't yet realise it. Go practice Ifa since you are Yoruba , and stop fooling yourself .

budaatum:
About The Rosicrucian Order, AMORC

THE ROSICRUCIAN TEACHINGS enable people to find themselves, turn their lives around, and influence the universe. We are educators, students and seekers devoted to exploring inner wisdom and the meaning of life. We offer an ancient time tested system of study and experimentation, which reveals the underlying principles of the universe. Our method offers practical tools applicable to all aspects of life.

The Rosicrucian teachings allow individuals to direct their own lives, experience inner peace and leave their mark on humanity. It is for this reason that we urge our members to remain committed to the investigation, study and practical application of all natural and spiritual laws for the attainment of Health, Happiness and Peace to the glory of God, the betterment of humanity and the evolution of the soul personality.

Download pdf copy of Mystery of Life
Nigeria Contact Details
Amorc near you

All of the above are empty claims whiich you cannot prove . You are in dangerous cult. Get out of it .

You started this nonsense by going to dig up something I said long ago which doesn't relate at all .

Since you want to have the last word ,I will teach you that no one wins a mud sllinging contest .

Question what you believe, before asking others to do so ,you hypocrite @budatuum.

Read the full story here
https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/B932_Crucian.html

Brainwashed Amorc member who has deluded himself into thinking he is a trained scientist capable of carrying out proper scientific research that can pass the test

I should provide it for you to test .Go and test your head first . No more sense on it .

Your quoting of the Bible all the time is due to your Amorc brainwashing .

@budatuum this how they deceive you there with fake scientific prove . Open your eyes and free yourself

Any black man who is a member of Amorc is a victim of implicit racism .

See it below . That's why no blackman has ever headed that cult . They will never ever ever allow it to happen .

Amorc will damaged your mind through its dangerous occuit practice .

See below and read the full story . Another victim' s account is on its way .

https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/B932_Crucian.html

triplechoice:

And you know what , you are the greatest hypocrite and pretender right now on this furom , deceiving everyone ,not me ,that you are an atheist when you are just a zombie believer in Amorc teachings .

Atheists do not believe, Triple. We seek to understand.
And Rosicrucianism is not a science, but knowledge that informs the experiences one has.

As for mud, have fun slinging it please.

🧐

Maynmann:
🧐

Science is the formal use of the senses to investigate.

In Christianity, the eye (and other senses), are the lamp of the body. If one does not learn the use of the senses, the whole body would be in darkness with the being being unable to comprehend that which is around it.

Eve taught this by using her senses to test if she would die if she ate the forbidden fruit. She lived and freed herself from slavery in Eden and went on to live almost a 1000 years and populated the earth, we read.

budaatum:


Science is the formal use of the senses to investigate.

In Christianity, the eye (and other senses), are the lamp of the body. If one does not learn the use of the senses, the whole body would be in darkness with the being being unable to comprehend that which is around it.

Eve taught this by using her senses to test if she would die if she ate the forbidden fruit. She lived and freed herself from slavery in Eden and went on to live almost a 1000 years and populated the earth, we read.

And the human senses are very limited.
Eve valued wisdom more than death.

We see in the adam and eve story that the elohims only made the body of them, they didn’t make the spirit, the elohims could only kill the body not the spirit.
The garden was created for the images of elohim, adam and eve are not images anymore, they are now one of the elohims.
They don’t need the garden again, as elohim they can create their own garden.

Maynmann:

And the human senses are very limited.

And that's why we must train ourselves in the use of the human senses so as to reduce their limitations.

And hence Jesus Christ, who made Christians aware they had senses and taught their use, though one wouldn't agree with that watching many Christians here.

https://www.nairaland.com/6481507/what-clay-mud#100295773

budaatum:


And that's why we must train ourselves in the use of the human senses so as to reduce their limitations.

And hence Jesus Christ, who made Christians aware they had senses and taught their use, though one wouldn't agree with that watching many Christians here.

https://www.nairaland.com/6481507/what-clay-mud#100295773

The human senses already has limitations, humans don’t have the best eyesight or the best ears, science deals with observation, so we are observing science in a limited position already.

Jesus Christ didn’t teach any “Christians”, he taught the golden law, “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.

Maynmann:

We see in the adam and eve story that the elohims only made the body of them, they didn’t make the spirit, the elohims could only kill the body not the spirit.
The garden was created for the images of elohim, adam and eve are not images anymore, they are now one of the elohims.
They don’t need the garden again, as elohim they can create their own garden.

Humans never needed a garden (enclosed space), because they were created in God's image to rule over all the earth, and universe, I dare add.

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

That said, some humans were afterwards created from mud and were enslaved naked in the garden and those seem to be the majority. It's like they devolved.

Maynmann:

The human senses already has limitations, humans don’t have the best eyesight or the best ears, science deals with observation, so we are observing science in a limited position already.

We don't "observe science". We do science in order to observe better than the untrained senses with which we observe much less

Maynmann:
Jesus Christ didn’t teach any “Christians”, he taught the golden law, “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.

One would argue he taught people. And the golden law was just one thing he taught amongst many other teachings, use your senses being just one.

budaatum:


Humans never needed a garden (enclosed space), because they were created in God's image to rule over all the earth, and universe, I dare add.

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

That said, some humans were afterwards created from mud and were enslaved naked in the garden and those seem to be the majority. It's like they devolved.

The elohim image there properly refers to shadow, even though shadows can assume someone image, it is not the real thing.

All these animals you mentioned were in a garden, and the paradise doesn’t really mean enclosed space as used in hebrew.

budaatum:

We don't "observe science". We do science in order to observe better than the untrained senses with which we observe much less


One would argue he taught people. And the golden law was just one thing he taught amongst many other teachings, use your senses being just one.

Science means knowledge, it’s observed, everyone can use it, physics and chemistry were once called natural philosophy and were taught in the first academy by plato.

Maynmann:

The elohim image there properly refers to shadow, even though shadows can assume someone image, it is not the real thing.

All these animals you mentioned were in a garden, and the paradise doesn’t really mean enclosed space as used in hebrew.

The Garden was not Paradise! And there's no way one could conclude that Adam who was created from mud was an image of any God. For starts, he was not allowed to eat the food of the Gods and only farmed it on their behalf, and he was obviously far too stupid to be in the image of a god because he was far too dumb and didn't know how to use his senses until Eve showed him he even had senses.

budaatum:


The Garden was not Paradise! And there's no way one could conclude that Adam who was created from mud was an image of any God. For starts, he was not allowed to eat the food of the Gods and only farmed it on their behalf, and he was obviously far too stupid to be in the image of a god because he was far too dumb and didn't know how to use his senses until Eve showed him he even had senses.

The garden is paradise, look into the hebrew word used there.


Adam was image of the elohim, like they said, he was created male and female, androgenous.

He was not given any reason, as why he should not eat the fruit, they only threatened him not to eat it.
Immediately they ate it they got their senses, and they “became crafty and they made themselves aprons”.
Eve had only the desire of wisdom, which is what everyone should.

The elohims promised eve and adam all the fruits and foods without wisdom, remember what jesus said, “man shall not live by bread alone”.

Maynmann:

Science means knowledge, it’s observed, everyone can use it, physics and chemistry were once called natural philosophy and were taught in the first academy by plato.

Science is a method used to observe and acquire knowledge and not just a thing one observes.

When one learns physics and chemistry and natural philosophy, one doesn't just learn about things, but also learns a method to observe things properly. It's the reason we do scientific experiments. To show how to see what is claimed to have been observed.

budaatum:


Science is a method used to observe and acquire knowledge and not just a thing one observes.

When one learns physics and chemistry and natural philosophy, one doesn't just learn about things, but also learns a method to observe things properly. It's the reason we do scientific experiments. To show how to see what is claimed to have been observed.

No Science means knowledge, maybe you meant scientific method.

We learn things in practical aspect right from the olden days.
Physics and chemistry are what happens in our everyday life, we are discovering it.

Maynmann:


Adam was image of the elohim, like they said, he was created male and female, androgenous.

I did not find this in my own Bible. What I found was that after "the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done", only then did "the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. This same Lord then took a rib from the man Adam and formed the female called Eve.

The creation formed in God's image in Genesis 1 is not the same Adam formed from dust in Genesis 2.

https://www.nairaland.com/6795272/reeves-pass

budaatum:


I did not find this in my own Bible. What I found was that after "the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done", only then did "the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. This same Lord then took a rib from the man Adam and formed the female called Eve.

The creation formed in God's image in Genesis 1 is not the same Adam formed from mud in Genesis 2.

https://www.nairaland.com/6795272/reeves-pass

It’s in the hebrew bible called tanakh.

Exactly, “breathe of life”. So when he said eve and adam will die, does that include his own breath of life?
Elohims only “made” the body, they never made the “spirit” which is breathe of life.

The genesis story is a collection of more than 3 books together, the removal of the rib represents the seperation of androgynous man to male and femlae.

Maynmann:

No Science means knowledge, maybe you meant scientific method.

We learn things in practical aspect right from the olden days.
Physics and chemistry are what happens in our everyday life, we are discovering it.

The scientific method, as in how ti use the senses, is the main thing learnt when one studies science. We "know something" by studying it with our senses, as in, by doing science on that thing so that we may fully comprehend it in its aspects.

Physics and chemistry, at the beginning of one's education, is the training of the senses in the methods of physics and chemistry. They do start off with telling one what has been observed, but the outcome of further study is how to observe or one would just believe the physics and chemistry they know without checking the validity of their knowledge, which is clearly not science.

Maynmann:

It’s in the hebrew bible called tanakh.

Exactly, “breathe of life”. So when he said eve and adam will die, does that include his own breath of life?
Elohims only “made” the body, they never made the “spirit” which is breathe of life.

Whatever is meant by "Adam will die" if he ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, was clearly a lie since we read how long Adam lived before he did eventually die. Unless you read only one book, of course, and believe Adam and Eve would have lived for ever.

budaatum:


The scientific method, as in how ti use the senses, is the main thing learnt when one studies science. We "know something" by studying it with our senses, as in, by doing science on that thing so that we may fully comprehend it in its aspects.

Physics and chemistry, at the beginning of one's education, is the training of the senses in the methods of physics and chemistry. They do start off with telling one what has been observed, but the outcome of further study is how to observe or one would just believe the physics and chemistry they know without checking the validity of their knowledge, which is clearly not science.

And our senses are limited. We are calculating time using our limited senses and they using the concept of time to understand the universe. This calculation is already wrong already.
The sun is up not because it’s 12pm, the sun is up because it’s supposed to be up regardless if our senses call it 12am.

Physics and chemistry are naturally philosophy, they sit down and study the environment.
Philosophy literally means love of wisdom and nature means “of its own”, by itself.
You get natural philosophy.

There’s no special knowledge anywhere afterall we are acting as persons.

budaatum:


Whatever is meant by "Adam will die" if he ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, was clearly a lie since we read how long Adam lived before he did eventually die. Unless you read only one book, of course, and believe Adam and Eve would have lived for ever.

The death that was talked about was the body that the elohim “made”, you see that after the elohim saw that adam and eve are pars now, they cursed them but they could only curse what they “made”, after the curses, see what adam did and said….
They were elohims now, they could not die.

Maynmann:

The garden is paradise, look into the hebrew word used there.

If that's what you want to believe, buda will live.

For me, the garden in the east in Eden; where he put the man he had formed can not possibly be paradise where Adam and Eve were naked slaves.

budaatum:


If that's what you want to believe, buds will live.

For me, the garden in the east in Eden; where he put the man he had formed can not possibly be paradise where Adam and Eve were naked slaves.

That’s what the hebrew word says, I’ve seen that reading the book in its original language is very helpful.
Hebrew פרדס pardes and Hebrew גן gan, "garden"

Maynmann:

The death that was talked about was the body that the elohim “made”, you see that after the elohim saw that adam and eve are pars now, they cursed them but they could only curse what they “made”, after the curses, see what adam did and said….
They were elohims now, they could not die.

Same as the Jesus whom we read was nailed to a cross and stabbed and poisoned and died, lives in spirit I suppose, and as I will live in the spirit of what I have written on Nairaland long after I die and become worm food.

Mayn, you are going to forgive buda. I do not believe crap in any language whatsoever.