shdemidemi:
Bro, you say people hear from God outside His breathed and sanctified word and it isn't for self interest, self-seeking, self-serving, self centred motives. What other reason could it be for, for God?

If we will be entirely truthful to ourself, the only reason we love to hear outside scripture is for SELF.
God has nothing more to gain by talking to me outside scripture, the devil and the flesh have all to gain in such conversation.

He has brought me into the world for a reason. He gave me the message of glad tidings as an ambassador of His kingdom.
He says '[size=32pt]all things [/size]we work together for my good at the end'.

Most of us seem to think 'all things' in the context used are glittery things. 'All things' are the good, the bad and the ugly encounter that will come as a result of the truth we know. The bible calls it the affliction of the gospel.
2 Tim 4
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry

The average christian have moved far away from God's word.
The same affliction and pain the world present in different dimensions is what we claim God always speak to us about. We present the gospel as a path to comfort and riches. We equate godliness to good business, opportunities and wealth.
2 Tim 2
3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

We would rather be average citizens who say charitable prayers to soldiers of the gospel, while we hear from God to give us money and yet more money to enjoy our esteemed self.
We unconsciously judge a true man of God by his affluence thus many have left God to meet world standard of what a man of God should look like.

We have deviated from the truth bro, all that matter to us is 'success'.

BabaGnoni:


No brother, far from the truth.
Bro, what are you talking about that you have it smeared all over your mouth. You are way off tangent here,
sorry to say it like this bro but this kind of tunnel vision about hearing from God would not serve any well or meaningful purpose

Is this why one wants or needs to hear from God?
Because of "success", prosperity, riches and/or wealth etcetera?
If yes, then the motives are wrong, and what one will be hear speaking will be flesh, not God.

Dont be obnoxious about wise decision making, good successes, prosperous and successful lives

We need to study Solomon, to find out about how and why God blessed him and gave you a wise and discerning heart, so that there will never have been anyone like him, nor will there ever be
(i.e. he didnt ask for long life or riches or the life of his enemies but got them because he desired rightly the first time)
also study Joshua's account about good success, how God explained the requirement for a prosperous and successful life

Bro, in Jeremiah 29:11, God said:
For I know the plans I have for you," says the LORD. "They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope.

so for the umpteeth time whatever one hears outside scripture ALWAYS complements scripture and the word of God,
anything else or short of that, is delusional and deceptional

shdemidemi:


Bro, you say people hear from God outside His breathed and sanctified word and it isn't for self interest, self-seeking, self-serving, self centred motives. What other reason could it be for, for God?

If we will be entirely truthful to ourself, the only reason we love to hear outside scripture is for SELF. God has nothing more to gain by talking to me outside scripture, the devil and the flesh have all to gain in such conversation.

He has brought me into the world for a reason. He gave me the message of glad tidings as an ambassador of His kingdom. He says '[size=32pt]all things [/size]we work together for my good at the end'.


Most of us seem to think 'all things' in the context used are glittery things. 'All things' are the good, the bad and the ugly encounter that will come as a result of the truth we know. The bible calls it the affliction of the gospel.
2 Tim 4
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry

The average christian have moved far away from God's word. The same affliction and pain the world present in different dimensions is what we claim God always speak to us about for the sole reason of vindicating us. We present the gospel as a path to comfort and riches. We equate godliness to good business, opportunities and wealth.
2 Tim 2
3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

We would rather be average citizens who say charitable prayers to soldiers of the gospel, while we hear from God to give us money and yet more money to enjoy our esteemed self. We unconsciously judge a true man of God by his affluence thus many have left God to meet world standard of what a man of God should look like.

We have deviated from the truth bro, all that matter to us is 'success'.

shdemidemi:
You must understand the relationship between the nation of Israel and its people is earthly while that of the church is heavenly.

What God gave as earthly in the old is a shadow of what He can do and not a guarantee of what He will do.

You will find the likes of Abraham, Solomon in the old and Paul, Peter in the new.

BabaGnoni:


You lost me with the bold. You want to back track and leave trails for me to clearly follow

by the way, whether it's "the likes of Abraham, Solomon in the old and Paul, Peter in the new" getting priorities right, is open door for hearing from God

shdemidemi:
They were never aware of a place called heaven and hell in the old testament, it was always between success for obedience and destruction for disobedience.

Today, our priority isn't earthly success (anyone diligent can have that) but heavenly glory that is to come by Christ.

sammied:


When my investment failed...you read that I said all things works together for my good...both good and bad...yes...like Paul, I rejoice in tribulations and good times...like Paul I have learned how to abased and how to abound....

sammied:


I don't wanna be drawn with the issues of wealth, success etc...My point is:There are specific issues the bible is not explicit about that relates to us...and God...our father is committed to such details and he can lead us in whatever medium he decides...Examples of that are plenty in the bible....

sammied:
But also...because God leads or say something doesn't mean it will work or end well...I can also give you plenty of that in the bible....God has always decided to work with man in fulfilling his will and work...
Samson was supposed to lead Isreal to win many wars...an angel even appeared and deliver the words...did it happened? Didn't Samson messed it up? SOMETIMES if not most times...God's dealing with man always involved mans cooperation.

Peter should have taken the gospel to the gentiles...even in the vision he had he still refused to eat what was given to him...it was hard for him in that area....

On this note...I submit on this subject. May God grant us more understanding of his word.

shdemidemi:


That is the spirit the bible present. What we call good isn't necessarily what God calls good.
Luke 16
What society sees and calls monumental,
God sees through and calls monstrous.

I have two group of people in my life. The good friends and the bad friends. When I look through God's knowledge of scripture, which set of friends teach me more about life? My bad friends.

So I don't curse or say bad things about them cos they teach me more and push me more than the good ones. Many things I know today came from one bad decision I had made earlier in life. I believe God bring these two set of people in my life because they are needed for my walk in life.

I believe the passage that says 'we are led by the Spirit of God if we are sons'. What I call a bad decision might be God's way of transforming my way of thinking or a way of breaking down my defences from putting any trust in the flesh.

The very moment a soul is broken down in true self-judgment, God rises before it in all His grace, majesty and benevolence as the Justifier.For our God delights in a broken and contrite spirit, He finds His habitat in such a soul.

I believe the bible gives us a good platform to learn through biblical characters. Notice all failures recorded in scriptures are linked to SELF through disobedience or legalism.

Jesus couldn't have failed because he submitted himself completely to God and His counsel.

Paul couldn't have failed because he was sold out to God as a bond servant

BabaGnoni:


bro you left me ROTFL, but it is alright ooo
however correctly, hell is a greek concept, Jews never had hell, they never shared the Greek mythology of hell.
They had sheol quite alright
they definitely were aware of sheol, abraham's bosom or paradise

I sincerely hope you study the intricacy of Solomon's prayer and/or desire.
It was not a "self interest, self-seeking, self-serving, self centred" request but was about what God had put him in charge over
The ability to discern from good and bad when managing the people God placed under his, Solomon's care

"Give me a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong.
For who is able to govern this great people of yours?”"

That is the what hearing the voice of God is all about, aside clear instructions in the Bible

Who is able to "govern", to check the flesh, check its avarices etcetera
With media pressure, subliminal advertising, sex in advertising or the use of sex appeal in advertising, peer pressure, misplaced priorities etcetera
we definitely need that extra ever ready helpful voice of God to steer and guide on us, especially if a physical Bible isnt readily available
and we can be rest assured whatever we hear, however we hear it, the voice will ALWAYS compliment and not go against the written counsel of God's word or the Bible

shdemidemi:
Bro, I am happy you are laughing, its sure good for the soul.

King Solomon wrote three books, it does not surprise me when most prosperity preachers go to this book to dig out formulas to success.
If we take the book or the verses of those books in isolation we will sure make them mean anything we desire but contrary to the overall and holistic gist of scripture.

The books were progressive...
Solomon's state of mind and what mattered to him at every point was also moving in stages.
At the end of it all Solomon came to himself, he counted all he had acquired as dreg.

BabaGnoni:

^^^
Try and not be ignorant about Solomon like your allegedly "prosperity preachers" bro.

Have you read anywhere yet on this thread anyone insinuating that hearing the voice of God or hearing from God is about formulas or formulae?
Please be mature and honest in your rebuttals

Sure Solomon started well, he put his best foot forward at the beginning with that prayer of his I previously shared (i.e. II Chronicles 1:10)
but Solomon went downhill after obtaining the wisdom, wealth, harem etcetera,
he, Solomon got influenced with foreign gods and practices through the many wives & concubines acquired and allowed his head swell too

shdemidmi, compare II Chronicles 9:22 at Solomon's death with II Chronicles 1:12 at Solomon's beginning, what do you observe or notice in the wording arrangement

shdemidemi:
All these subtle jabs your sharing.. DIA IS GOD oooo ....

shdemidemi:


May I start on this premise- 2 Tim 3:16,
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

inspired means that Scripture is God-breathed, i.e., God Himself speaking. It does not mean God merely assisted the writers. It means that the words of the Bible are the words of God Himself. Every word of Scripture was breathed out by God.

Would it be right for anything that isn't scripture or in perfect harmony with scripture to be regarded as God's voice?

How can we be made perfect/mature if the voice we hear isn't scripture?


Baba G... Have you heard God's audible voice outside scripture? This is no joke, I will really like to know.

nlMediator:



From the above, it means you accept the OT is also the Word of God. Which is the same as Jesus.

nlMediator:
Yet, after the OT, God continued to speak to people outside the written scriptures. That contradicts your claim from Hebrews that God has spoken to us through His Word and thus need not speak in any other way, besides pain.

nlMediator:

BTW, your adding pain as a means of communication also contradicts your assertion about Hebrews. Pain was not added there. If you could add pain, so can we add other things.

nlMediator:
And nobody said an audible voice is the only way God speaks outside the Bible.

nlMediator:
Besides, do you believe the devil speaks to people today? Have you ever asked the people that hear the devil and his demons what voice they used - man's, woman's, child's?

Candour:
Wonderful thread and posts.

Reading and learning

Cheers all

shdemidemi:


The Old Testament isn't Jesus. It is a shadow of what is to come by Christ.




It is not my claim, it is clearly written in the book. It is plainly divided into prophets and the Son in the book.

Hebrews 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son




Pain or disaster isn't a means of communication but a way to subject our flesh to mortification thus our spirit become induced to look up to God at such times.

We almost present ourselves as the all in all and end in all when things are happening all around us. Disappointments some times helps take the chip off our shoulder.

The life of Job is a perfect example of this, everything was going on well for the man until God nudged him. The man said things that revealed all of his weaknesses and all that was fundamentally wrong with Job. God came in to the scene to eventually reveal Himself as the one behind all of Job's success and this He did not because of the works of Job (contrary to what Job thought) but because He is merciful.

Job got the message via disaster. That is not to say disaster can supplant God's word as written in the the sacred scripture but its God's way of calling our attention back to Himself most times.





You need to speak for yourself bro. Some people actually think God speak like you and I will speak to each other. Some say God appear to them in the person of Jesus to have a one on one chat.



I have never met anyone who speaks with the devil. May be when or if I do I will pose the question.

I believe the devil speak with most mainframe men of God if truly they hear voices and that is if it isn't all gimmicks and lies to stay relevant.

nlMediator:


That settles it then. You believe the devil speaks to fake men of a God. But you never ask in what voice the devil speaks. Yet, when somebody says God speaks, you resort to that line of questioning.

nlMediator:


Welcome, bro. I can see you've been out there raking in the cash, while devoted servants of The Lord like us have been busy here toiling in the Master's Vineyard! Well, so long as you share the loot with those doing the Father's business, all is well.

shdemidemi:


Why exactly should I want to know how the devil speak?

nlMediator:
[size=5pt]From the above, it means you accept the OT is also the Word of God. Which is the same as Jesus.
Yet, after the OT, God continued to speak to people outside the written scriptures. That contradicts your claim from Hebrews that God has spoken to us through His Word and thus need not speak in any other way, besides pain. BTW, your adding pain as a means of communication also contradicts your assertion about Hebrews. Pain was not added there. If you could add pain, so can we add other things.[/size]

And nobody said an audible voice is the only way God speaks outside the Bible.

Besides, do you believe the devil speaks to people today?
Have you ever asked the people that hear the devil and his demons what voice they used - man's, woman's, child's?

shdemidemi:
[size=5pt]The Old Testament isn't Jesus. It is a shadow of what is to come by Christ.

It is not my claim, it is clearly written in the book. It is plainly divided into prophets and the Son in the book.

Hebrews 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son

Pain or disaster isn't a means of communication but a way to subject our flesh to mortification thus our spirit become induced to look up to God at such times.

We almost present ourselves as the all in all and end in all when things are happening all around us. Disappointments some times helps take the chip off our shoulder.

The life of Job is a perfect example of this, everything was going on well for the man until God nudged him. The man said things that revealed all of his weaknesses and all that was fundamentally wrong with Job. God came in to the scene to eventually reveal Himself as the one behind all of Job's success and this He did not because of the works of Job (contrary to what Job thought) but because He is merciful.

Job got the message via disaster. That is not to say disaster can supplant God's word as written in the the sacred scripture but its God's way of calling our attention back to Himself most times.[/size]

You need to speak for yourself bro. Some people actually think God speak like you and I will speak to each other. Some say God appear to them in the person of Jesus to have a one on one chat.

I have never met anyone who speaks with the devil. May be when or if I do I will pose the question.

I believe the devil speak with most mainframe men of God if truly they hear voices and that is if it isn't all gimmicks and lies to stay relevant

nlMediator:


Welcome, bro. I can see you've been out there raking in the cash, while devoted servants of The Lord like us have been busy here toiling in the Master's Vineyard! Well, so long as you share the loot with those doing the Father's business, all is well.

Candour:


Bro, you're wrong actually. I'd been home all these while reading the posts on the thread but not venturing to post partly because I really am enjoying all the discussions and also because I'm banned from any other relationship (NL is like a mistress ) while at home with my queen and little royals (the Lady does not share ).
Got back to work today so I'm free to engage now but you guys have gone so far that I'll have to be content with just reading and learning for now.
I like the idea of the conference even if I'm not in full agreement with everything said there or with some posts here.
We all will always have where we need growth and more understanding. I only pray for it not to be on the more essential tenets of our faith so we don't run the race in vain.
So carry go......I dey for una back gidigba

BabaGnoni:




Good catch nlMediator, didnt know you were keeping abreast of this thread and shdemidemi's dexterity at weaving in and out

I didnt want to go down the route of "... people that hear the devil and his demons, what voice they used - man's, woman's, child's" with shdemidemi.
This for the reason that knowing shdemidemi, he will lash on to it, use it as a distraction, divert from the original or main matter and possibly make a real meal out of it

shdemidemi, nlMediator is on point, do you believe the devil and demons spoke to people in the past and still speaks to people today?

Saul, the witch of Endor and the demon (i.e. familiar spirit) masquerading as Samuel is a classic example (i.e. 1 Samuel 28:3-20)
Another are the demons (i.e. legion of them) cast into pigs (i.e. Mark 5:1-17)

Let me share a story, a story about voices, I once heard a "friend" narrate.
Back in the day, this "friend" decided one day to experiment with substances (i.e. cannabis also known as marijuana or igbo)
The first time he tried igbo, it was only had a small amount of half finished wrap and it didn’t have much, if any effect on him
but as for the second time and last, it did have some effects, very interesting effects

This is the story and the interesting things that happened the second time round of smoking igbo
He said, he asked the dealer to give him a good quality high grade igbo, as the first time he took it, the igbo didnt "shack" him at all
(i.e. he didnt get high on it)

He went home to enjoy the rolled up spliff, in the safety comfort of his home, he lit the joint and took a cautionary small drag of the weed, nothing happened, no effects, it was déjà vu, it was just like the first time.
So he decided to up the ante by doing a deeper drag and inhalation,
this time there was a surprising effect, he said he felt at peace, he felt floating and ascending into the air, he felt euphoric.
He liked the feeling, and wanted more of it, so on the next inhalation, he took a deeper x2 inhalation,
and that was when the first interesting thing happened, he felt light and dizzy, like he was spinning
then like a bolt out of the blue he started hearing a voice, the voice was said:
"You are high, and getting higher on your way to heaven,
it is getting hot in here, take off your shirt, unbuckle your belt, pull off your trousers and flip off your shoes,
Get yourself relaxed, be relaxed, ease the tension.
The next round I promise you, you will be on cloud seven, it is going to be life changing and you would never be the same again"

He said, he obeyed the voice, by taking off everything except for his pant or boxer-short and made himself comfortable
He took another very deep deep drag of the weed, pow, again he heard the voice.
The voice said:
"yank off your pant or boxer-short, drop-kick the door, go out on to the street stark n@ked and starting doing 100m races"

At this point, he said he came to himself, knowing that if he obeyed the voice and he cross that line, this will be the beginning of madness for him (i.e. kolo mental and/or Yaba left)
He put out the cannabis, threw it away, stomped on it and quashed it with his feet on the floor, and that was his last time of smoking cannabis and hearing that voice

"That settles it then. You believe the devil speaks to fake men of a God.
But you never ask in what voice the devil speaks.
Yet, when somebody says God speaks, you resort to that line of questioning."
- © nlMediator
^^^
LOL, shdemidemi, stepped right in it. LOL
Two people you dont want them catching you slacking are nlMediator and mbaemeka
LOL try wriggle out of that gaffe shdemidemi LOL
Good luck LOL

nlMediator:


Aah, you mean I heard the wrong voice telling me where you were? That's why we need to stick to "sufficiency of scripture." Sola scriptura all the way! No more false prophets.

I support the queen 100%. As you can see, listening to her has made you a much better person. Remember, how terrible life was before you met her?

nlMediator:


Well laid out! QED.

shdemidemi:
Jokester

nlMediator:


That settles it then. You believe the devil speaks to fake men of a God. But you never ask in what voice the devil speaks. Yet, when somebody says God speaks, you resort to that line of questioning.

sammied:
Some questions:

How did Macauthur know he should assume the Pastorate of his present Church? How did he know he was to teach or Pastor..how did he know and entered the office (Pastor or Teacher)?

Do you believe that God calls people to be Pastor or Teachers of the word like John Macauthur and the rest today? If yes...how did they know...? Since their name is not Particularly in the bible?

Can/should every christian head a church? Those who are to head a church, how will they know since there's no particular scriptures addressed with their names?

How did John Macauthur know he should head a church.?...at least there's no scriptures written confirming his name (in regards to heading a church).

John Macauthur is a Pastor....how did he entered into that office....considering there's no scriptures with his name...saying he would enter that office...or should enter that office?

Lastly, does God call certain people into the office of a Teacher or Pastor, or every christian should be in those offices?

Note: I have no bias against Pastor John Macauthur. I used is name as example since we are dealing with a conference he organised...I could as well used R. C Sproul or anybody.

sammied:
Some questions:

How did Macauthur know he should assume the Pastorate of his present Church?
How did he know he was to teach or Pastor..
how did he know and entered the office (Pastor or Teacher)?

Do you believe that God calls people to be Pastor or Teachers of the word like John Macauthur and the rest today?
If yes...how did they know...?
Since their name is not Particularly in the bible?

Can/should every christian head a church?
Those who are to head a church, how will they know since there's no particular scriptures addressed with their names?

How did John Macauthur know he should head a church.?
...at least there's no scriptures written confirming his name (in regards to heading a church).

John Macauthur is a Pastor....how did he entered into that office....
considering there's no scriptures with his name...saying he would enter that office...or should enter that office?

Lastly, does God call certain people into the office of a Teacher or Pastor, or every christian should be in those offices?

Note: I have no bias against Pastor John Macauthur.
I used is name as example since we are dealing with a conference he organised...
I could as well used R. C Sproul or anybody.