John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference - Religion (13) - Nairaland
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| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 8:51am On Dec 12, 2014 |
sammied: Moses did not get to the promise land because he did not do exactly as God demanded when he struck a rock for water when he was told to speak. God had always told him to use the rod but he disobeyed when He did use it against the specific instruction from God. It isn't about how God dealt with people before or what they did to have a right standing with God then. What matters is what God demand from us today. Doing a right thing at the wrong time would not pass as right. The present administration is that of the Holy Spirit, not of the father nor the son. Paul used a woman who is bound to the laws of her husband while he is alive to explain the conundrum. When the husband dies, you cannot take the same rules from the old husband to a new husband. Lets say the old husband like rice, you can't automatically make rice for the new. The wife must ask what applies to her new husband. Romans 7 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. The church got married to Christ, we have new rules of engagement, new administration. The way things were done in the old can't apply to our new relationship with God. |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by WinsomeX: 9:24am On Dec 12, 2014 |
vooks: That Charismatics do not preach nor believe in the sufficiency of scriptures is an unfortunate statement but it is true. It is a fact I have gathered from my long association with them. Anyone is free to disagree with it. I, however, think Cessationists take the doctrine to an unhealthy extreme. God's words are fully documented in scriptures but a wonderful and personal God has chosen to walk with us mere mortals and to relate to us as friends. A friend will speak to his friend, only that what God will say us within the limits of scriptures. How this relates to specific prophecies is not what I can explain at the moment. However, a doctrine of Sufficient Scriptures help guard against all sorts of error. Example: 1. Not tithing is anathema in Nigeria because supposed popular preaching heard God say to them that those who do not tithe are either cursed are headed to hell. It is not very difficult to discern the spirit speaking here; a self serving, merchandizing spirit 2. A Pastor friend told how their Pastor instructed to double their tithe for that year. By the following year, he had to be reminded if God's instruction subsisted or not. Etc. vooks: A perfect example of what I am talking about. God does speak but most of those speaking for God today are false prophets. vooks: I like the way the cessationists distinguish BTW foretelling and forthtelling. Fourth telling is preaching. God can give a word and that word can be preached. The listeners have the right to judge what the preacher is saying and decide whether it is God or not. The same right is given to them in foretelling, which is popularly called prophecy. vooks: That is why they were apostles. They could teach doctrines that are "new" so to speak. No one after them can and that why the apostolic office in that sense is ceased. If the apostolic office will cease, we mist then agree that some apostolic gifts too can cease. This is the point of the cessationists. vooks: Exactly. There are three test for true prophecy: 1. The Word or orthodoxy. 2. Fruit or character. 3. Prophetic fulfillment. No matter the prophet all the three must fit. So you predict an earthquake over Lagos. If you have predicted five prophecies in the past and all but one failed, you are a false prophet and the Lagos prophecy should not be believed. If all your prophecy has come to pass but your wife accuses you of "inappropriate relations" with female members of staff or you are a aerial divorcee, you are a false prophet and you are not to be believed. If you scale the two above but you preach a prosperity gospel, you are a false prophet and you are not to be believed. In 1965, Dr D M Lloyd Jones was speaking at the Centenary celebrations of the building of the Westminster chapel, London. He is Reformed in doctrine and a cessationists. He spoke of how at the height of the Second World War God gave him a witness (a prophetic word) that that building will not be bombed. He told a story of how all building around it were leveled save for the church. That's a prophecy one can believe. Lloyd Jones was orthodox; he was not flippant so you can never accuse him if "prophelying" and so you could not point him to unfulfilled prophecies. He was not the type that will say in a sermon God told me. What was a prophecy in WW2 was revealed long after the war; and lastly he was an upright man. That's was a man of God and that the sort of prophecy God can give today. It is still not authoritative. And if Lloyd Jones were to rise from the dead and say a church will not be bombed in a war, I as a member of that church will Stoll watch my back during service. |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 9:40am On Dec 12, 2014 |
sammied: The bible represent the foundation. It is full, it is complete, it is inherent.. The bible has given mankind everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him. Any other way of hearing from God is exclusive, subjective, mooted, unsure. It can never give a full picture of the intent of God. sammied: God lead us if we are truly sons. We don't know what or how he does this but we can only soar and follow in line with the instructions penned in scriptures. He does not need to speak audibly to us to lead or guide us. He does all of this through providence. sammied: My common question is- In what voice does God speak to you... man's voice, boy's voice, baby's or in a girl's voice? Our conscience isn't the voice of God, many erroneously conflate the two. |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by nlMediator: 3:05pm On Dec 12, 2014 |
WinsomeX: I'm not sure I understand your position on the sufficiency of scripture. The tithe examples you gave undermine your case. The people that believe in tithing base it on their understanding of scripture. I have read a number of teachings on this, including Bible commentaries, and people disagree on the applicability of tithing to the Christian. BTW, not all the people involved in the debate are charismatics. You cannot say that because you're on one side of the debate on any doctrinal issue, that those that disagree do not believe in the sufficiency of scripture. They simply have a different interpretation or understanding of scripture from you and that has nothing to do with sufficiency of scripture. On your specific example 1, the pastor that believes non-tithers will go to hell is basing it on his view of a particular chapter in the Bible. So, even if he says God spoke to him, he's saying that what God spoke is consistent with the written Word - the same approach YOU take. The second example again can be supported from scripture. God can ask people to do anything that does not contradict His Word. You believe in giving. God can ask you to double your normal giving. That's not adding to scriptures or rejecting its sufficiency. Where does scripture say that people cannot double their giving or tithes(for those who believe in the latter)? On prophecy, you have to make up your mind. Has the gift of foretelling ceased or not? Here, you are accepting prophetic utterance from a British preacher while still claiming that nobody has such a gift or that it should be used privately. Of what use is the message from God if the man kept it to himself? |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by vooks: 7:18pm On Dec 12, 2014 |
WinsomeX: My broda, i been in the continuists camp for a better part of my life in Christ and I have never seen nobody disregarding scriptures as insufficient. What I mostly find lacking is the noble spirit of Beroa; checking whatever is preached against scriptures. Ignorance almost akin to Catholism where Rome's garbage is infallible. but even among Cessationist here, I find the same ignorance. Some 'traditional' doctrines such as dispensationalism are 'inspired'. Their ignorance is more systematic, you have creeds and statements of faith which are seldom thought through. A perfect example of what I am talking about. God does speak but most of those speaking for God today are false prophets.If you knew the influence of this man, you would weep. He is always berating prosperity gospel,witchcraft, indecency in churches and so forth. He is a 'miracle' worker and he believes he is the Malachi Elijah who was to come supposedly to prepare the church for rapture. I have met immense opposition from his fans for merely pointing to his fraudulent claims and failed prophecies. I like the way the cessationists distinguish BTW foretelling and forthtelling. Fourth telling is preaching. God can give a word and that word can be preached. The listeners have the right to judge what the preacher is saying and decide whether it is God or not. The same right is given to them in foretelling, which is popularly called prophecy.[quote]What are apostolic gifts? Cessationists are dishonest. They would have us believe that the miraculous in the first century was reserved for the apostles. But we had non apostles prophets like Philip's daughters and Agabus. Personally, I see apostles as defined in Acts 1, witnesses of the resurrection of Jesus, and those who had walked with Him for a better part of his earthly ministry. This of course with exception of Paul. Those guys were going to die and there would be no living witnesses of the resurrection. That's what Paul suggests in 1 Cor 15 where he says some of the 500 are still alive. The apostolic office ceased not because of any esoteric reasons as canon but simply because of the mortality of men. There are three test for true prophecy: I agree 120%. But what Cessationists should avoid is the outrageous claim that modern prophecies are attempts at adding to the canon because clearly not every word of God is meant to be preserved for future generations with the same authority as Revelation |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by sammied(m): 7:51pm On Dec 12, 2014 |
shdemidemi: I can't believe you're asking what voice God's speak? When God dialogue with Abraham, spoke to Moses, spoke to the prophet..etc..during Jesus baptism....what it a man's , boy's or in a girl's voice ?.... Very funny question..got me laughing...when the Holy Spirit spoke through Agabus, what voice did he use? When God spoke through Balaam donkey...what voice did he use? |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 7:55pm On Dec 12, 2014 |
sammied: The bible accounts did not tell us but we believe He spoke because we trust the Word of God. I asked cos I have never heard it. If anyone of us have been privileged to hear it, he should be able to tell us in what voice He spoke.  |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by sammied(m): 8:27pm On Dec 12, 2014 |
shdemidemi: Well...since God spoke to people in the Bible and they heard him....it matters not what voice he used...(I don't wanna go into that) the most important thing is that He spoke and people heard.... Abi? |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 8:36pm On Dec 12, 2014 |
sammied: If I may ask, have you heard? |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by sammied(m): 8:54pm On Dec 12, 2014 |
shdemidemi: You mean I have heard God speak to me? Absolutely YES...and I don't expect anybody to believe it...wether cessationanist, pentecostal, charismatic or pagan...I am none of those.. And the next question will be: what voice did he use?....well the same voice he used when he spoke to people throughout the entire bible....from Genesis to Revelation. |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 9:02pm On Dec 12, 2014 |
sammied: You guessed right bro.. If I were to meet those who heard God in scriptures, be sure I will ask the same question. If you don't want to share what God's audible voice sound like, it's fine. How often does He speak to you though? |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by ayinba1(f): 9:17pm On Dec 12, 2014 |
WinsomeX: Thank you for the summary. I tried to follow MacArthur ' s but he seemed to loop almost endlessly. Perhaps the video might have sounded better explanatory |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by ayinba1(f): 9:22pm On Dec 12, 2014 |
sammied: Haaaaa! Abeg any emoticon for open mouth.  Found it.... |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by BabaGnoni: 11:15pm On Dec 12, 2014 |
shdemidemi: sammied: shdemidemi: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:27 KJ Bible Vocal cords must have been fashioned against an original God created vocal cords to mimick something original (i.e. a heavenly thing) in the spirit realm which makes or gives utterance Whether in "a man's, boy's or in a girl's voice", God speaks and yes shdemidemi, whatever God speaks will always be complementary to His word, the bible and/or Sola scriptura God speaks to us in diverse ways and/or forms. He speaks in the midst or during grief, death, birth deliveries, tragedies, triumphs etcetera He speaks audibly or verbally He speaks through the scripture He speaks through the elements He speaks through the wonders of the earth He speaks in the silence and stillness of the wind He speaks the list goes on, etcetera etcetera Whatever God choses, God lends His voice to speak to us I wouldnt expect vooks to relate to the two below phrases about voices, communication or talking, but I imagine shdemidemi will "idi to nsoro" literally meaning "sexy talking buttocks" - phrase usually used when the opposite sex walks with rhythmic buttocks "Ara de nso funmi" literally meaning "and my body was trying to tell me something about it" - phrase usually used to imply the body had a premonition of a particular incident and was trying to fore/prewarn about the event" Notice, both phrases do not embody a "voice" perse, nonetheless, there is communication Will include this story which did the milk round many years ago. The original story is buried in one of my many hard drives, which I am not so keen of unearthing from, so instead of unburrowing it, I'll try to rehash the story for the benefit of others but particularly for shdemidemi There was this man hiking with a group of others across a rough terrain, a wilderness moorland with mountains. The man somehow got separated from the main walking group and so ended up being lost As darkness was approching, all the frantic efforts or attempts the man made to get his bearings right to rejoin the main group was to no avail He was not only lost but it is now pitch black, no moon, it was so black you cant even see or make out your nose Temperature was dropping and it has start to become very cold. The man heard a rustle from a nearby bush, it's a grizzly bear he thought, fright beset him, he made a flight for his dear life and so scampered As he was running, little did he know he was at the edge of the mountain. He suddenly fell, and was tumbling down the mountain. As he was doing acrobatic feats he never he had in him down the face of the mountain, he visualised, his entire life from childhood to present reeling before him like as if it was a video "Alas!" he exclaimed, "if I dont think up something fast, it seems this is where and how I am going to die" he said So he cried out and said "God, God, God if you are out there, please dont let me die this way" Miraculously, as the man, was rolling and somersaulting down the mountain in pitch darkness, his hand got hold of a twig of a bush growing on the face of the mountain (i.e. this twig stopped the tumbling, rolling and falling) As his hand got hold of the twig, he shouted: "Self- experience!" "Phew! That was a close shave with death" he further blurted out The man held on tight to the twig, but the night was getting colder and has reached sub-zero temperature The man became perplexed and unsure over what to do in the difficult situation of hanging onto a twig for dear life he found himself So the man went like this: "God, you know I prayed earlier and you answered my prayer. I was saved from falling to my death, saved from breaking my neck or bones but God if you really are out there, please say something and save me from freezing to death on this twig I am holding and hanging onto" Then in the stillness of the night, he heard a Voice. The Voice said "Let go. Let go of the twig" "Let go ke? Let go of the twig? Let go when the twig is my lifeline?" he thought to himself Anyway, the man refused ooo. The man hardened his heart. He did not listen to the Voice, he did not recognise the Voice, and sure to happen, the man froze to his death clinging onto the twig he was told to let go off At the first light of day, the search party which were looking for him found his dead icy body with his hand clasped on to the twig The man was found holding tightly to the twig, stone-cold dead SIX INCHES ABOVE GROUND LEVEL 7Therefore (as the Holy Spirit says, Today if you will hear his voice, 8Harden not your hearts, as in the rebellion, in the day of testing in the wilderness: - Hebrews 3:7-8 King James 2000 The bottom line is that every sheep hears and knows the voice of the Shepherd PS: shdemidemi is very funny. He wants someone to tell him how they hear God speak, for him maybe to ridicule it It's like someone saying tell me how you make love with your woman, I havent had the privilege with my woman - share with us or tell us how you both do the business Some things are just private and personal. One will have to cultivate one's own relationship to experience or come across this desire |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by sammied(m): 2:58am On Dec 13, 2014 |
shdemidemi: I will be very foolish to respond to this your question...this is reason I so much hate all those groups, divisions (cessationanist, pentecostal, charismatic, Catholic...etc) that you people belong..divisions that are not even found in the bible itself. You people are either confusing yourself, or confusing people....you're either adding or substracting from the bible. Throughout the entire Bible...no place did God depend on writings ONLY to communicate with his very own children...his people. God's desire has always been A PERSONAL ONGOING LIVING RELATIONSHIP, COMMUNION with his children..and that's the reason for the Holy Spirit dwelling in us. If your father...God...never speak to you except through writings...good...I wouldn't debate that you..it btw you n him...abi?..but then stop asking questions that you already know the answer. I think...the biggest danger in all these groups una belong is that: because of pride...every division wants to prove superiority and correctness of doctrines and ' truths '.....whereas God never intented the bible for that purpose... It's well.... |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 3:50am On Dec 13, 2014 |
BabaGnoni: May I start on this premise- 2 Tim 3:16, 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. inspired means that Scripture is God-breathed, i.e., God Himself speaking. It does not mean God merely assisted the writers. It means that the words of the Bible are the words of God Himself. Every word of Scripture was breathed out by God. Would it be right for anything that isn't scripture or in perfect harmony with scripture to be regarded as God's voice? How can we be made perfect/mature if the voice we hear isn't scripture? Rev 22 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Apostle Peter puts it this way- No prophecy was ever put together by an act of human will.2 Pet 1:21 On the other hand, most who make claims to hear from God often cascade their own will and shove it on God as His own will. We always like to hear something pleasant to the flesh from God, if it will hurt our ego our pride or our flesh, it is of course from hell. God spoke, He isn't a talkative neither is he a reactive God. We can't exhaust what God have said, it remains fresh and new everyday. If that remain so, I see no necessity for new revelations outside that which is complete and sufficient. Baba G... Have you heard God's audible voice outside scripture? This is no joke, I will really like to know. |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 3:59am On Dec 13, 2014 |
sammied: No one is claiming superiority here... moreover I have not told you I tag myself with any division. All I ask is for you to tell us what you hear. You declined the request so I went further to ask how often you hear what you hear, you refuse to give an answer to that as well. Is it your intention to say a thing and all should accept it as the truth? I believe questions must be asked and they should be reciprocated with pertinent answers. If you cannot defend your extrabiblical messages—either through an audible voice, a vision, a voice in your head, or through an internal impression.... don't you think it will be better you keep it to yourself and register it as 'unsure' even in your unconscious mind. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Translations King James Version (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by Nobody: 7:44am On Dec 13, 2014 |
@shdemidemi...Have you had lustful thoughts about sleeping with women? What voice was speaking to your thoughts then? Is it a girl,boy or a man's voice? |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 8:13am On Dec 13, 2014 |
Bidam: Very well! There was nothing speaking to my thoughts. That is exactly the work of the flesh, that is my sinful nature linked to Adam. Those are the elements of my flesh that need continuous need of a renewing of the mind so they don't dominate me to do as they will have me do. These thoughts are one of those things God will judge every man by according to Paul. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets (not just what you do on the open but those concealed) of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. By this statement Apostle Paul made it impossible for anyone -be it religious, pagan, hypocrite- to claim holiness in 'self'. If God judge by outside appearance only, many churches of the Holiness movement wouldn't need the mercy and pardon that come by Grace. But God wouldn't be judging by the outer appearance alone, our secret thoughts and actions will also come under God's Holy judgement. If God ever give us the opportunity to see what we all think, even you BIDAM will not believe how evil we are- everyone of us. But the constant study of the word of God gradually subdue our own thoughts with the knowledge and mind of God. |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by sammied(m): 8:14am On Dec 13, 2014 |
shdemidemi: Lol....you know I already said I don't really care....and I don't expect anyone to believe me either...my stand as always been that everyone should hold on to what they believe. Even peter said..that Pauls teachings were hard to understand, 2peter 3v16... For me...my life is a submission to God will...I have been through very difficult, many sided situations that needed precise details on what to do...of which such personal details are not in the Bible... I have asked before and nobody gave an aswer: is God...our father committed to the daily details of our life? Can God lead us to meet specific persons, go to specific place, make a specific choice when we are at a cross road..? When Paul was been taking to Rome and his ship attacked by the storm a matter of life and death...the angel that gave him a word of assurance and directions....did the angel do that to give him new revelations or new message to add to scriptures? Like I said earlier I have been through very difficult decision process...that right there I knew if God was alive and he his my father...I needed direction... Let me give you one instance: I made an investment which went down faster than my imagination...because of it...I went down financially...my brother....it almost killed me..a lot of things followed which I cannot type... (better expressed through talking)...for me I believe and meditated on God's word which says: all things work together for my good...somehow I knew it was not my end financially After two month of the whole thing..a friend called me from Manchester that he held what happened to me..he said an opportunity open up..that four different business was about selling off and needed a buyer...that he has the money to buy one of them...but he's not sure of which to buy cos of the little...big money involved...he said he had called on his financial advisers to go through the business and they said four of them were viable....but he wanted to bring me into partnership with him (60/40)..but the responsibility to choose will be on me... We are talking about money btw 28m and 40m...I knew this an opportunity from God..cos of every good gift comes from God according to scriptures...my bro...you can guess...I wasn't willing to make a choice like the one that ruined me b4 financially. Long story short....I was desperate. This was a life time opportunity I took my bible and went into some bush...took the name of the four business on paper...I told God..you're my father...you're alive...you know all things..you gave the Holy Spirit so he can lead me....while lying on my matt and reading the word for about 4 hours I slept off...a voice just like anybody voice woke me saying...that's the business to buy (mentioning one of the business)..when I first heard the voice I thought it was somebody speaking so I looked around...but soon I realised I was alone in the bush... Well it's four years now...two of the three remaining business had been shut down by the government cos of illegal practice by the owners which was hidden back then...the other one is not doing so well....cos we followed them up.... Anybody can say...oh how are u sure what you heard was God? My answer? The results that followed...chikenna. I don't even usually debate it...cos I have experience this severally and the results...the same...I have learnt the hard way to depend on my father to lead me even on things people will call insignificant....wether people term that providence or extrabiblical...I don't care...it's in the bible...it worked for people then...it working for me.... My point is: God can lead us in specific details not written in the Bible...doing that is not extrabiblical messages. When the angel gave Paul a message of assurance...it was not a revelation or message for doctrines. |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by BabaGnoni: 8:29am On Dec 13, 2014 |
"Ati soro ile kun, o tun bere pe, she iya teacher aje ni" meaning literally "despite that we've talked so much with a lot on ground, still the question is asked if the teacher's mum is a witch" "♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ Small girl, you don't know the thing I am teaching you the thing ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ You are playing with the thing... x3 You want to know the thing , you for be humble ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ Make you no dey take am dey gamble e no be gidigidi, e be simple ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ Make you no dey rush am, so you no go fumble... ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ I go show you, make you learn am faster I be your teacher, I no be your pastor... ♫ ♬" Atumpan - The Thing ft. Stone Lyrical satire apart, and now on a serious note, sammied has succintly answered or responded very well to ALL your knee jerk questions about the voice of God (i.e. the speaking, hearing and listening) Really loved sammied's earlier response and I quote here: "it matters not what voice he used...(I don't wanna go into that) the most important thing is that He spoke and people heard.... Abi?" - © sammied "All I ask is for you to tell us what you hear. You declined the request so I went further to ask how often you hear what you hear, you refuse to give an answer to that as well. Is it your intention to say a thing and all should accept it as the truth? I believe questions must be asked and they should be reciprocated with pertinent answers. If you cannot defend your extrabiblical messages — either through an audible voice, a vision, a voice in your head, or through an internal impression.... don't you think it will be better you keep it to yourself and register it as 'unsure' even in your unconscious mind." - © shdemidemi The irony of you painting and charging sammied with "extrabiblical messages" is that vooks uses the same brush to accuse you too of "extrabiblical messages" - weird isnt it, you pointing two fingers at sammied but majority three fingers are pointing back at you "@shdemidemi... Have you had lustful thoughts about sleeping with women? What voice was speaking to your thoughts then? Is it a girl,boy or a man's voice?" - © Bidam Bidam is on point, voicing is not limited to vocal cords as earlier hinted in a previous post shdemidemi You have tugged, pulled and tried yanking out of sammied, how God spoke and speaks with him or how he hears from God (i.e. is it audibly, is it in the silence of His presence, etctera) but I am surprised why you didnt ask questions like: how others makes love with their partners, surprised you havent asked, what sound they make at org@sms etcetera These things are similar or are the same things shdemidemi. It is not that it is inexplicable but some things are private or personal you, shdemidemi, just have to give the benefit of the doubt since you have no idea of what happens when God speaks, have no idea how it happens when God speaks etcetera. Since if like the man in the story earlier shared, one who refuses to listen, refuses to acknowledge, refuses to recognise, hardens one heart to the voice of God then one is missing out a huge and great deal You asked me the question "Baba G... Have you heard God's audible voice outside scripture? This is no joke, I will really like to know" but before that you said "God isn't a talkative neither is he a reactive God" well, I'll supplement that with, God the Holy Spirit is a gentleman and wont force gift(s) not desired, recognised, wanted or wont impress gift(s) against anyones wish Does God have to always speak audibly shdemidemi? Does the bible speak to you at all shdemidemi? If yes, is it audibly? Stop these ludicrous voice questions, no offense meant. Just because "God speaking" is abused, it's no excuse to expunge it Put it this way shdemidemi, and answering you back, sometimes I hear God speak in the quietness or stillness of moments however importantly, part of my daily and continual prayer is: "God, please, as I go about by daily runnings and activities, let me hear your voice. Let me hear your voice, clearly and loudly as I go about things, and guide me in all or everything with/by your voice" I liked your 1 Thessalonians 5:21 quotation, it is a good "litmus paper" verse So shdemidemi, why not prove all things and hold fast that which is good. If what God spoke or what was heard spoken doesnt complement God's word or the Bible, drop it and flee from it nau LOL PS: sammied's last entry is a good, strong and water tight testimony. I bow in the presence of an ever speaking God. shdemidemi, bro, on that sammied's last entry or note, I rest my case on the subject matter, I don't however go the route of labelling you with groups though LOL |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by vooks: 8:47am On Dec 13, 2014 |
Shdemidemi believes prayer has NO value outside the therapeutic effect of talking a problem off your chest. This man may quote the entire scriptures but he does not KNOW God. He is busy wearing you with idiotic questions. God talking to men is God communicating his will to man. Period A good question for his ilk is HOW does the Spirit lead us into the truth? We can all read scriptures. How does Spirit lead us into the truth? BabaGnoni: |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 9:18am On Dec 13, 2014 |
sammied: Bro, if you really don't care if anyone believe or not, the truth is you wouldn't bother to share. We all should cleave unto the Word and guard our hearts and mind for everything else flow from there. Saying we can all believe whatever we believe lead people to a point where they cling to 'what works for me'. At that point it becomes difficult to accept how God wants it to work. You hear things like 'tithing work for me', 'going to the mountain to pray works for me'.. We end up becoming contemptious to the Word of God for what seemingly work for us. Even Peter found it hard to understand Paul's message/gospel. Remember Peter had always been a Jew all his life, even after he met Jesus he was never told to stop his temple worship or his jewish ways and customs. Suddenly, Paul came to the scene to declare a message of Christ separate from the legalistic laws, tradition and customs that had always been. That will take some difficult readjustment of what one had known and practised all his life. sammied: God does not need to tell me when to go have a shower or all of those frivolities. He does not even need to talk to me when I am faced with difficult decisions. All He does is influence my decision by the things that I know about Him. When we know God through His word, it will reflect in every decision and every step we take. sammied: Bro, Paul is an apostle. He is the forerunner of the gospel of grace in God. He raised the dead, he had so many spiritual experiences that you and I can only imagine. Paul's recorded experiences and message of Christ make up the full story for our learning. Paul had fellow workers who were also restricted to what Paul had taught, there was no room for someone like Timothy to come up with his own revelatory gift or new prophecy. They were all restricted to what Apostle Paul had taught them. sammied: May I say your experience is compelling and I am happy for you. Now, we must be very careful when we shove things to God. Your heart desire is for you to make a right decision when picking your choice of investment. Whether God chose for you or not is mooted. I wonder what song you will sing if the business hit the rocks tomorrow (not wishing that for you), will you change your song? Do you make wrong decisions asides this particular one? Do you still write things in the bush to hear directly from God? Like you, I have seen many who make claims God showed them their wives. They will almost fight anyone who says other wise, some years down the line they are filing for divorce. Our experiences remain personal to us, they are not generic formulas to figure God out. The bible remains the surest and safest route to hear God. sammied: God can lead us or influence us by what we know of Him. It is impossible to hear from or have a relationship with someone you don't know or understand. A muslim or any other unbeliever can give you enthralling experiences, does that mean it is Jesus doing it for them? We can't count on our experiences bro, they are too weak, they can disappoint at other times. 1 Like |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by BabaGnoni: 9:31am On Dec 13, 2014 |
shdemidemi: shdemidemi the bold got me ROTFL shdemidemi, I dont think anyone disagrees with you that "Our experiences remain personal to us, they are not generic formulas to figure God out. The bible remains the surest and safest route to hear God." and as was rightly said previously, and as you've just subscribed to, what you are asking about is private and personal, even if no one is explicitly sharing their experience with you, take it that, God speaks and one hears from God aside the Bible. - it wouldnt be self interest, self-seeking, self-serving, self centred BUT will always complement God's word, complement the Bible and not be imagination(s) or "wuru-wuru" to an answer |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by Candour(m): 9:45am On Dec 13, 2014 |
Wonderful thread and posts. Reading and learning Cheers all |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by vooks: 10:03am On Dec 13, 2014 |
Misunderstanding Sola Scriptura is far much dangerous than disregarding the sufficiency of the Word of God Here is how, 1. Theology and I mean any theology which is the VERY means by which we arrive at the Scriptures is thrown out of the window. Who needs Greek or Hebrews or any commentaries? We just need scriptures! 2. Preaching should effectively cease. Any attempt to preach or share the Word of God other than reading scriptures carries an inherent risk of adding to the scriptures. God should have left us sermons but He left us 66 books. What are sermons anyway other than manmade efforts at (mis)understanding scriptures? If preaching does not 'add' to the scriptures, then just recite the scriptures! 3. Evangelism too for the same reasons as 2. should cease. 4. Fellowship is pretty much useless. Why should we fellowship? Is it possible that calls to fellowship as recorded in the NT were birthed by the insufficiency of the then scriptures and now that we have the canon we don't need fellowship? 5. Bible translation is lethal. What if you add to scriptures while translating? How do we even know what version to use? Should it be the oldest/newest? |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by BabaGnoni: 10:05am On Dec 13, 2014 |
shdemidemi:^^^ - EXCERPT - ...The man heard a rustle from a nearby bush, it's a grizzly bear he thought, fright beset him, he made a flight for his dear life and so scampered As he was running, little did he know he was at the edge of the mountain. He suddenly fell, and was tumbling down the mountain. As he was doing acrobatic feats he never he had in him down the face of the mountain, he visualised, his entire life from childhood to present reeling before him like as if it was a video "Alas!" he exclaimed, "if I dont think up something fast, it seems this is where and how I am going to die" he said So he cried out and said "God, God, God if you are out there, please dont let me die this way" Miraculously, as the man, was rolling and somersaulting down the mountain in pitch darkness, his hand got hold of a twig of a bush growing on the face of the mountain (i.e. this twig stopped the tumbling, rolling and falling) As his hand got hold of the twig, he shouted: "Self-experience!" "Phew! That was a close shave with death" he further blurted out... https://www.nairaland.com/2016831/john-macarthurs-2013-strange-fire/12#28831418 - /EXCERPT - What I deliberately omitted to add to the original of the above excerpt, was that the man possibly is an atheist, a muslim or any other unbeliever (i.e. I wanted to add it but something told me not to whilst posting then) - notice how without giving thanks or showing gratitude for hearing from God, the "escapade" was turned to experience |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 10:11am On Dec 13, 2014 |
BabaGnoni: Bro, you say people hear from God outside His breathed and sanctified word and it isn't for self interest, self-seeking, self-serving, self centred motives. What other reason could it be for, for God? If we will be entirely truthful to ourself, the only reason we love to hear outside scripture is for SELF. God has nothing more to gain by talking to me outside scripture, the devil and the flesh have all to gain in such conversation. He has brought me into the world for a reason. He gave me the message of glad tidings as an ambassador of His kingdom. He says '[size=32pt]all things [/size]we work together for my good at the end'. Most of us seem to think 'all things' in the context used are glittery things. 'All things' are the good, the bad and the ugly encounter that will come as a result of the truth we know. The bible calls it the affliction of the gospel. 2 Tim 4 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry The average christian have moved far away from God's word. The same affliction and pain the world present in different dimensions is what we claim God always speak to us about for the sole reason of vindicating us. We present the gospel as a path to comfort and riches. We equate godliness to good business, opportunities and wealth. 2 Tim 2 3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. We would rather be average citizens who say charitable prayers to soldiers of the gospel, while we hear from God to give us money and yet more money to enjoy our esteemed self. We unconsciously judge a true man of God by his affluence thus many have left God to meet world standard of what a man of God should look like. We have deviated from the truth bro, all that matter to us is 'success'. |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by sammied(m): 10:13am On Dec 13, 2014 |
vooks: Vooks... Lol...@the above...I am almost cracking my ribs.... I didn't wanna say anything again....but the above even though funny are very, very valid and serious points... |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by Nobody: 10:27am On Dec 13, 2014 |
shdemidemi:This is where we don't agree. On the contrary something was actually speaking to your thoughts. It can either be the voice of self, devil or the voice of God. And we know God cannot inject such foolish thoughts. That is exactly the work of the flesh, that is my sinful nature linked to Adam. Those are the elements of my flesh that need continuous need of a renewing of the mind so they don't dominate me to do as they will have me do.i can equally say that monks who are not christians can discard such thoughts....There are eunuchs like Daniel who never entertained such thoughts, what do you think is motivating them? Is it when they renew their minds with the word of God since monks don't have the bible to start with? These thoughts are one of those things God will judge every man by according to Paul.God doesn't judge thoughts. He judges actions that proceeds out of thoughts(James 1:14-15). By this statement Apostle Paul made it impossible for anyone -be it religious, pagan, hypocrite- to claim holiness in 'self'. If God judge by outside appearance only, many churches of the Holiness movement wouldn't need the mercy and pardon that come by Grace. But God wouldn't be judging by the outer appearance alone, our secret thoughts and actions will also come under God's Holy judgement.You are digressing. The issue is whether God speaks through our thought patterns. Even Apostle Paul acknowledged the athenians worship to an unknown God by telling them that they are God's offspring and God is not far from them.Care to explain how they came about such thoughts of a creator even though they never heard the gospel? If God ever give us the opportunity to see what we all think, even you BIDAM will not believe how evil we are- everyone of us. But the constant study of the word of God gradually subdue our own thoughts with the knowledge and mind of God.You have said it your self here. God can speak to us through our thought process when we renew our minds with His word. Just like the devil can inject you with his thoughts to do things contrary to the will of God. You already confessed to us on this forum that you had to wed the lady you put in the family way against your better judgement. Are you telling me...it is your fleshy nature that cause that you do that before the wedding? I don't think so..It was the devil all along..Just like he tempted Jesus in the wilderness is the same way he tempt believers to go contrary to God's word. He doesn't need to appear to you or speak to you in a girl, boy or man's voice. It is through thoughts. Thanks. |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 10:37am On Dec 13, 2014 |
^^^] We must differentiate what we call voice here. I think the mix up is in our definition of voice. What is a 'voice' ? |
| Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by vooks: 10:38am On Dec 13, 2014 |
And the worst is number 6. 6. We don't need the Holy Spirit to understand the word of God. All we need is scriptures and our brains and we are good to go. I have heard it here severally implied that Sola Scriptura is alien in the continuists camp but is the cornerstone of cessationism. Exactly what does the Holy Spirit do today in the body of Christ now that the gifts have ceased and we have ALL the truth we need in the Bible? sammied: |
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