brocab:
Yes it tells that story Abram paid a once tithe, from the spoils of war.
And it tells that story why Jacob offered God tithes, after a dream.

And some where down the track God had made it into a Covenant law, tithing, sacrificing and offerings, laying down the rules for Jewish farmers, and herdsmen, etc, to pay a yearly tithe to the Levi priesthood bring your tithes {food} into my storehouse, for the works they did, and the lands they didn't own.

It was never a covenant law to tithe before God had made it one.

After finding fault and because of its weakness the law was changed through Jesus given us a better covenant.

If your ancestors was about to jump of a bridge would you follow.

Do you sacrifice for your daily sins?

Jesus had sacrifice shedding his Blood once and for all.

OK, lemme ask you, was tithing introduced in the law of Moses? Did Abraham not pay tithes before the law came? It is a PRINCIPLE. When Jesus died on the cross, he does not abrogate the law, but rather, he fulfills it. The difference is that now, we are not commanded to give any percentage out of compulsion, but out of love.

How can we say we love God and cannot give to him. The same thing applies to offerings. Look throughout the bible and see if there was any man God loved that didnt give to him, no matter how small, tis the heart that counts. In fact our mindset should be that the entire 100% belongs to God, and can be used by Him whenever and however He wants. If He wakes us up one day and says give all, that is what we must do. This question arises among Christians now for 2 reasons: one, they are stingy and do not want to be compelled to give and two, they may think the money is being wasted. The second can be corrected by the leader (transparency), the first cannot.

PastorKun:


You quoted Hebrews 7:4-9 out of context, continue reading it to verse 19 and you would come across were tithes was anulled for christians in verse 11, were it was stated that the priesthood of Jesus could not receive tithes because he was from Judah(i.e not a levite) in verse 12 and were tithing is described as a weak, useless and unprofitable practise in verse 18.

No sir, you are wrong. What verse 18 talked about was not tithing, but the laws of Moses - they were weak and unprofitable. Tithing was introduced before the law, though the law made it an ordinance. The ordinance of it was abrogated in that it is no longer legally binding on us, but the principle of the first of everything and the tithe of everything belonging to God is still sacrosanct.

In fact it was not all the law that was removed, but the ceremonial laws and not the moral code, or the moral laws, like the 10 commandments. That is still relevant till tomorrow.

The earlier verses talked about Jesus being a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek and not Aaron. It was a clear differentiation between two orders of priesthoods. The verse I quoted earlier implied that instead of paying tithes to Aaronic priesthood, it is now recieved by Jesus in heaven. It is very clear (see verse 6 also where he said even Levi himself had to pay tithe to Melchizedek - in Abraham - because the lesser is blessed by the greater, hence Jesus' priesthood is superior).

Chylo:


No sir, you are wrong. What verse 18 talked about was not tithing, but the laws of Moses - they were weak and unprofitable. Tithing was introduced before the law, though the law made it an ordinance. The ordinance of it was abrogated in that it is no longer legally binding on us, but the principle of the first of everything and the tithe of everything belonging to God is still sacrosanct.

In fact it was not all the law that was removed, but the ceremonial laws and not the moral code, or the moral laws, like the 10 commandments. That is still relevant till tomorrow.

The earlier verses talked about Jesus being a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek and not Aaron. It was a clear differentiation between two orders of priesthoods. The verse I quoted earlier implied that instead of paying tithes to Aaronic priesthood, it is now recieved by Jesus in heaven. It is very clear (see verse 6 also where he said even Levi himself had to pay tithe to Melchizedek - in Abraham - because the lesser is blessed by the greater, hence Jesus' priesthood is superior).

You obviously don't understand the passage. The commandment to take tithes in verse 5 which was stated clearly as (according to the law) was the commandment being referred to as weak and useless in verse 18. No other c0ommandment was mentioned in the passage so don't get it twisted. In verse 12 it was stated clearly that Jesus was from the tribe of Judah thus he was not qualified to receive tithes. And no verse implied that Jesus now collects tithes in heaven, you are the one forcing your opinion into sc0ripture otherwise why is there no record of any of the apostles preaching or collecting tithes in scriptures? In fact the earliest record of tithes in the church was not till 585AD when it was first introduced by the catholic church in agric form. Monetary tithe was introduced to the church as recently as 1895 by American evangelical churches.

PastorKun:


You obviously don't understand the passage. The commandment to take tithes in verse 5 which was stated clearly as (according to the law) was the commandment being referred to as weak and useless in verse 18. No other c0ommandment was mentioned in the passage so don't get it twisted. In verse 12 it was stated clearly that Jesus was from the tribe of Judah thus he was not qualified to receive tithes. And no verse implied that Jesus now collects tithes in heaven, you are the one forcing your opinion into sc0ripture otherwise why is there no record of any of the apostles preaching or collecting tithes in scriptures? In fact the earliest record of tithes in the church was not till 585AD when it was first introduced by the catholic church in agric form. Monetary tithe was introduced to the church as recently as 1895 by American evangelical churches.

You keep arguing and I think your problem is the King James' English. I will quote the entire scripture till verse 25 for you from the Message bible, perhaps it would aid your understanding. Remember what I have said is that the principle is that "the tenth part" belongs to God. Now in the New Covenant, the ordinance or LAW of tithes, the way it was paid previously to the Levites has been replaced by the singular LAW of LOVE. You would now see people selling everything they had and bringing to the apostles' feet. This is not 1/10 now but everything. If you were alive then, won't you say that is wickedness? Perhaps it is because preachers do not say sell all and bring? Now, the tenth is only but a minimum, ALL we have belongs to God. What is the real problem here? Is ten percent too big to give God? If it is, then you don't understand the Kingdom. If it is too small, then by all means give more. Here is the scripture brother. Bless you.

Melchizedek, Priest of God
7 1-3 Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of the Highest God. He met Abraham, who was returning from “the royal massacre,” and gave him his blessing. Abraham in turn gave him a tenth of the spoils. “Melchizedek” means “King of Righteousness.” “Salem” means “Peace.” So, he is also “King of Peace.” Melchizedek towers out of the past—without record of family ties, no account of beginning or end. In this way he is like the Son of God, one huge priestly presence dominating the landscape always.

4-7 You realize just how great Melchizedek is when you see that Father Abraham gave him a tenth of the captured treasure. Priests descended from Levi are commanded by law to collect tithes from the people, even though they are all more or less equals, priests and people, having a common father in Abraham. But this man, a complete outsider, collected tithes from Abraham and blessed him, the one to whom the promises had been given. In acts of blessing, the lesser is blessed by the greater.

8-10 Or look at it this way: We pay our tithes to priests who die, but Abraham paid tithes to a priest who, the Scripture says, “lives.” Ultimately you could even say that since Levi descended from Abraham, who paid tithes to Melchizedek, when we pay tithes to the priestly tribe of Levi they end up with Melchizedek.

A Permanent Priesthood
11-14 If the priesthood of Levi and Aaron, which provided the framework for the giving of the law, could really make people perfect, there wouldn’t have been need for a new priesthood like that of Melchizedek. But since it didn’t get the job done, there was a change of priesthood, which brought with it a radical new kind of law. There is no way of understanding this in terms of the old Levitical priesthood, which is why there is nothing in Jesus’ family tree connecting him with that priestly line.

15-19 But the Melchizedek story provides a perfect analogy: Jesus, a priest like Melchizedek, not by genealogical descent but by the sheer force of resurrection life—he lives!—“priest forever in the royal order of Melchizedek.” The former way of doing things, a system of commandments that never worked out the way it was supposed to, was set aside; the law brought nothing to maturity. Another way—Jesus!—a way that does work, that brings us right into the presence of God, is put in its place.

20-22 The old priesthood of Aaron perpetuated itself automatically, father to son, without explicit confirmation by God. But then God intervened and called this new, permanent priesthood into being with an added promise:

God gave his word;
he won’t take it back:
“You’re the permanent priest.”
This makes Jesus the guarantee of a far better way between us and God—one that really works! A new covenant.

23-25 Earlier there were a lot of priests, for they died and had to be replaced. But Jesus’ priesthood is permanent. He’s there from now to eternity to save everyone who comes to God through him, always on the job to speak up for them.

Chylo:


You keep arguing and I think your problem is the King James' English. I will quote the entire scripture till verse 25 for you from the Message bible, perhaps it would aid your understanding. Remember what I have said is that the principle is that "the tenth part" belongs to God. Now in the New Covenant, the ordinance or LAW of tithes, the way it was paid previously has been replaced by the singular LAW of LOVE. You would now see people selling everything they had and bringing to the apostles' feet. This is not 1/10 now but everything. If you were alive then, won't you say that is wickedness? Is it because preachers do not preach sell all and bring? Now, the tenth is only but a minimum, ALL we have belongs to God. Here is the scripture brother. Bless you.

I have read, studied and meditated on hebrews 7 several times and I have a very clear understanding what the passage is trying to convene and clearly you are the one twisting it. The passage was merely telling the Hebrew people the superiority of C0hrist's priesthood over that or Aaron and it drew comparisons with the Melchizedek priesthood which was obviously familiar to the Hebrew people of that time. The references to tithes was just to show that Melchizedek was greater than Abraham who was the progenitor of the Hebrew people. And the tithe being anulled with the other levitical laws was to show that it was not relevant to the priesthood of Christ and that is why you would NEVER a single example in the bible of new testament christians preac0hing or paying tithes. It's just not a christian requirement and modern preachers had to do a lot of bible twisting to arrive at the unbiblical version of tithes being peddled in churches today.

PastorKun:


I have read, studied and meditated on hebrews 7 several times and I have a very clear understanding what the passage is trying to convene and clearly you are the one twisting it. The passage was merely telling the Hebrew people the superiority of C0hrist's priesthood over that or Aaron and it drew comparisons with the Melchizedek priesthood which was obviously familiar to the Hebrew people of that time. The references to tithes was just to show that Melchizedek was greater than Abraham who was the progenitor of the Hebrew people. And the tithe being anulled with the other levitical laws was to show that it was not relevant to the priesthood of Christ and that is why you would NEVER a single example in the bible of new testament christians preac0hing or paying tithes. It's just not a christian requirement and modern preachers had to do a lot of bible twisting to arrive at the unbiblical version of tithes being peddled in churches today.

Ok we have gotten somewhere, at least now you concede that my previous interpretation was right about a comparison of priesthoods (and not all that Jesus was from Judah and cannot take tithe crap).

Now, you say there is no example of tithes being preached in the new testament, let's say you are right. Would you accept that selling all properties and giving all at the apostles' feet was preached and practiced? If you agree, then why do you not practice that? The answer will show you that love of money is the root of all these arguments. Anybody that doesn't want to pay it should keep his money, there is no compulsion. Even in the apostles' time, it was voluntary (Ananias was killed because he lied that it was all the money he brought when he kept some. If that happened today, would you call it fair?).

Let me now be clear: I will concede that tithing in itself is an old testament concept, but the new testament does teach the following:
- being generous with God's blessings to you to the local church or assembly
- give to the poor
- when you give, not IF, give what you feel in your heart, not under compulsion
- God will be generous to you in the same measure as you are generous to others
- you should contribute to those who teach you spiritually (my opinion of what Gal 6:6 says)

I believe the legalistic nature of tithing was necessary because of the hardness of man's heart and God knowing that leaving people on their own, they wont give. People are naturally selfish. This was only a shadow though. The light is that we are to give liberally. If God set 10% in his old covenant as the rule, why should we in the new do any worse, or any less? In my opinion, that is as good a benchmark as any to get started.

Now, Paul's collection for the Jerusalem church occupies significant portions of his letters (1 Cor 16:1–4; 2 Cor 8:1–9:15; Rom 15:14–32) and it is even so important to Paul that he is willing to face hostility for it (Romans 15:30-31).

To every man his own. Cheers.

Chylo:


Ok we have gotten somewhere, at least now you concede that my previous interpretation was right about a comparison of priesthoods (and not all that Jesus was from Judah and cannot take tithe crap).

Now, you say there is no example of tithes being preached in the new testament, let's say you are right. Would you accept that selling all properties and giving all at the apostles' feet was preached and practiced? If you agree, then why do you not practice that? The answer will show you that love of money is the root of all these arguments. Anybody that doesn't want to pay it should keep his money, there is no compulsion. Even in the apostles' time, it was voluntary (Ananias was killed because he lied that it was all the money he brought when he kept some. If that happened today, would you call it fair?).

Let me now be clear: I will concede that tithing in itself is an old testament concept, but the new testament does teach the following:
- being generous with God's blessings to you to the local church or assembly
- give to the poor
- when you give, not IF, give what you feel in your heart, not under compulsion
- God will be generous to you in the same measure as you are generous to others
- you should contribute to those who teach you spiritually (my opinion of what Gal 6:6 says)

I believe the legalistic nature of tithing was necessary because of the hardness of man's heart and God knowing that leaving people on their own, they wont give. People are naturally selfish. This was only a shadow though. The light is that we are to give liberally. If God set 10% in his old covenant as the rule, why should we in the new do any worse, or any less? In my opinion, that is as good a benchmark as any to get started.

Now, Paul's collection for the Jerusalem church occupies significant portions of his letters (1 Cor 16:1–4; 2 Cor 8:1–9:15; Rom 15:14–32) and it is even so important to Paul that he is willing to face hostility for it (Romans 15:30-31).

To every man his own. Cheers.

First of all it's a biblical fact that Jesus was from the tribe of Judah and by extention he was not eligible to collect tithes so stop calling the word of God crap. Secondly believers sold their properties for distribution to the needy by the apostles of their own free will and not becos there was any christian commandment to do such. Also note that church giving in the new testament was primarily to take care of the poor and needy amongst them and not for some church leaders to feed fat on as is so rampant today.

PastorKun:


First of all it's a biblical fact that Jesus was from the tribe of Judah and by extention he was not eligible to collect tithes so stop calling the word of God crap. Secondly believers sold their properties for distribution to the needy by the apostles of their own free will and not becos there was any christian commandment to do such. Also note that church giving in the new testament was primarily to take care of the poor and needy amongst them and not for some church leaders to feed fat on as is so rampant today.

I have shown you how Melchizedek collected tithe from Abraham. Was Melchizedek a Levite? Was he unqualified too? Melchizedek was likened to the Son of God. Not exactly him, but like him, and after his order of priesthood (if you care to go deep Melchizedek was actually Christ in shadow).
Anyway we have reached a consensus, I agree that the poor are important too.

Chylo:


I have shown you how Melchizedek collected tithe from Abraham. Was Melchizedek a Levite? Was he unqualified too? Melchizedek was likened to the Son of God. Not exactly him, but like him, and after his order of priesthood (if you care to go deep Melchizedek was actually Christ in shadow).
Anyway we have reached a consensus, I agree that the poor are important too.

Melchizedek tithe was based on babylonian custom and not the law which mandated jews to tithe. Tithing in the time of Jesus was based on Law and Jesus was not eligible to collect based on his tribe. He was also clearly not interested hence he never taught it or c0ollected it it whilst he was here on earth. Yet some charlatans who claim to preach his gospel insist on collecting it on his behalf.

PastorKun:


Melchizedek tithe was based on babylonian custom and not the law which mandated jews to tithe. Tithing in the time of Jesus was based on Law and Jesus was not eligible to collect based on his tribe. He was also clearly not interested hence he never taught it or c0ollected it it whilst he was here on earth. Yet some charlatans who claim to preach his gospel insist on collecting it on his behalf.

Oga, if you don't mind, show me evidence that tithing was a "babylonian custom" and that tithes were paid by any tribe apart from Jews.
If possible, also let me know when Babylon was founded.

Chylo:


Oga, if you don't mind, show me evidence that tithing was a "babylonian custom" and that tithes were paid by any tribe apart from Jews.
If possible, also let me know when Babylon was founded.

I case you didn't know Abraham was originally from the Land of Ur in babylonia and tithing was a custom amongst the ancient babylonians and even Egyptians. If you are in doubt, google is your friend.

PastorKun:


I case you didn't know Abraham was originally from the Land of Ur in babylonia and tithing was a custom amongst the ancient babylonians and even Egyptians. If you are in doubt, google is your friend.

You have now left facts and are arguing fiction. I asked you to give me evidence of what you said, you told me google is my friend. Is that your evidence? Give me a link online substantiating your claims that tithing was babylonian and egyptian culture even though Abraham was neither babylonian nor egyptian initially).

I'm willing to learn something if you are right.

Abram paid a tithe before the law came, but your not understanding me, If my Great Great forefather-ancestor gave a tenth from the spoils of war something that didn't belong to him, out of the orderly does that mean I should follow suit.

Before Jesus had sacrificed himself, tithing sacrificing and offerings was still in place.

The first covenant made with our forefathers, Aaron would meet in the chambers with the Holy Spirit in the temple made with hands!
Shedding the first fruits blood, himself first, and then for the people for the remission of sins.

And after Jesus had sacrificed himself, changing that old covenant fulfilling it given us a better covenant, we no longer need to follow that old law on tithing, sacrificing and offerings.
Because the Holy spirit now lives in Man/female temples made by God.

What your not understanding is, the Non tithers Give from their hearts some more or less than others. Listen to the words: God loves a cheerful giver.

He didn't say: God loves a cheerful tither,

Tithing was under law.
Free giving has no law.

How can you say: its a law to tithe, I must tithe a tenth, to whom?

And then expect me to be a cheerful giver freely.

God said: bring all your food into the storehouse.
Man said: bring all your money into the storehouse.

Now explain to me who changed that law? Was it God? Or was it Man?

Chylo:


OK, lemme ask you, was tithing introduced in the law of Moses? Did Abraham not pay tithes before the law came? It is a PRINCIPLE. When Jesus died on the cross, he does not abrogate the law, but rather, he fulfills it. The difference is that now, we are not commanded to give any percentage out of compulsion, but out of love.

How can we say we love God and cannot give to him. The same thing applies to offerings. Look throughout the bible and see if there was any man God loved that didnt give to him, no matter how small, tis the heart that counts. In fact our mindset should be that the entire 100% belongs to God, and can be used by Him whenever and however He wants. If He wakes us up one day and says give all, that is what we must do. This question arises among Christians now for 2 reasons: one, they are stingy and do not want to be compelled to give and two, they may think the money is being wasted. The second can be corrected by the leader (transparency), the first cannot.

brocab:
Abram paid a tithe before the law came, but your not understanding me, If my Great Great forefather-ancestor gave a tenth from the spoils of war something that didn't belong to him, out of the orderly does that mean I should follow suit.

Before Jesus had sacrificed himself, tithing sacrificing and offerings was still in place.

The first covenant made with our forefathers, Aaron would meet in the chambers with the Holy Spirit in the temple made with hands!
Shedding the first fruits blood, himself first, and then for the people for the remission of sins.

And after Jesus had sacrificed himself, changing that old covenant fulfilling it given us a better covenant, we no longer need to follow that old law on tithing, sacrificing and offerings.
Because the Holy spirit now lives in Man/female temples made by God.

What your not understanding is, the Non tithers Give from their hearts some more or less than others. Listen to the words: God loves a cheerful giver.

He didn't say: God loves a cheerful tither,

Tithing was under law.
Free giving has no law.

How can you say: its a law to tithe, I must tithe a tenth, to whom?

And then expect me to be a cheerful giver freely.

God said: bring all your food into the storehouse.
Man said: bring all your money into the storehouse.

Now explain to me who changed that law? Was it God? Or was it Man?

There is no more law. We are not under the law. There is no more law to tithe. But the law was a shadow, and tithing was a principle to show God that all was His. If God prescribed 1/10 in His law, now that we are under grace, why do you think it should be any less than that? I believe that should be a starting point. You can now give more than 10 percent out of love. But for you to say, you wont give God anymore because the law is gone, then you must be very stingy and do not understand the kingdom of God. Cheers.

Chylo:


You have now left facts and are arguing fiction. I asked you to give me evidence of what you said, you told me google is my friend. Is that your evidence? Give me a link online substantiating your claims that tithing was babylonian and egyptian culture even though Abraham was neither babylonian nor egyptian initially).

I'm willing to learn something if you are right.

Here is your proof that Abraham was initially babylonian:



Genesis 11:27-31
27 These are the descendants of Terah, who was the father of Abram, Nahor, and Haran. Haran was the father of Lot
28 and Haran died in his hometown of Ur in Babylonia, while his father was still living. 29 Abram married Sarai, and Nahor married Milcah, the daughter of Haran, who was also the father of Iscah. 30 Sarai was not able to have children. 31 Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot, who was the son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, Abram's wife, and with them he left the city of Ur in Babylonia to go to the land of Canaan. They went as far as Haran and settled there.

Chylo:


You have now left facts and are arguing fiction. I asked you to give me evidence of what you said, you told me google is my friend. Is that your evidence? Give me a link online substantiating your claims that tithing was babylonian and egyptian culture even though Abraham was neither babylonian nor egyptian initially).

I'm willing to learn something if you are right.

You can learn about the pagan origin of tithing here: http://easternhealingarts.com/Articles/Tithing_Prosperity.html

There you would learn it's an ancient pagan custom that predated the Jewish tithes. You can thank me later.

Well since theirs no law, then we are both on the same track, I give when the lord says: give.

Question are you a tither?
As I'm not.

I give freely. not because someone says tithing is a law.
What law?

I give from my own heart.

And everyday I'm blessed.
I don't need riches, I have enough.

I don't need the teaching about false doctrines on tithing.
I need the lord.

First seek the kingdom of God, and all things shall be added to you.

Tithing was our tutor, but now we have Christ, so we don't need a tutor no more.

I have studied the scriptures to know better.

And I never said: I won't give God any more because the law is gone.

If you are a tither than you are heading in the wrong direction.

Chylo:


There is no more law. We are not under the law. There is no more law to tithe. But the law was a shadow, and tithing was a principle to show God that all was His. If God prescribed 1/10 in His law, now that we are under grace, why do you think it should be any less than that? I believe that should be a starting point. You can now give more than 10 percent out of love. But for you to say, you wont give God anymore because the law is gone, then you must be very stingy and do not understand the kingdom of God. Cheers.

brocab:
Well since theirs no law, then we are both on the same track, I give when the lord says: give.

Question are you a tither?
As I'm not.

I give freely. not because someone says tithing is a law.
What law?

I give from my own heart.

And everyday I'm blessed.
I don't need riches, I have enough.

I don't need the teaching about false doctrines on tithing.
I need the lord.

First seek the kingdom of God, and all things shall be added to you.

Tithing was our tutor, but now we have Christ, so we don't need a tutor no more.

I have studied the scriptures to know better.

And I never said: I won't give God any more because the law is gone.

If you are a tither than you are heading in the wrong direction.

Stop deceiving yourself, if you cannot give up to 10 percent of what you get to God, you are stingy. We are talking of people laying down their lives here and some giving even up to 100 percent and you are there struggling with 10 percent. God will deliver you from mammon.

What are you saying: are you on the same planet, is this about your questions on tithing?

What makes you think I'm deceiving myself, when I give' I don't tic myself off with any percentage points.

I don't need to add my figures up at the end of the week to prove myself to God, for him to say: well done good and faithful servant.

As most of us know O/Testament tithes were used as temple taxes.
Given under the same purposes as they are today, the Tithing was used to support the people in the land.

Since: In most countries the law was giving to the people of the land to pay a tithe {10%} taxes to Governments each week.
A booklet written under "The Act's" a rule made under God's law, and still stands.
The taxes are used to support the people in the land.
Some may have other idea's, but "The Act's" was the plan to survive

The Lord has warned us all in word, many will come in his name:

Satan has use False preachers-pastors-who lead some small, most mega Churches; claiming under a charity system turning God's people against one-another, twisting bible text so one can pay more taxes plus offerings, around the 23% yearly income from O/Testament tithing, on a weekly wage.
Don't you think the Lord knows: Many of you don't realize, at the end of the day, your not giving, your paying O/Testament 23% tithing.

These Organizations are run by Governments, Churches run under a charity system, so Governments will have full control running schools, entertainment, businesses, selling books, Dvd's, Cd's, coffee-tea, restaurants, involved on Church grounds, without paying any tax.
The sadness is this story is: 10% tithes-taxes to the Church and again 10% taxes to your Government, and your offerings around 3% is 23% on a weekly wage.
In some countries at the end of a financial year, most people retrieve a percentage of their taxes they had paid back to them, the Governments then find other way's to retrieve it back to the taxation department on daily bases.

"The Act's" God's law: Under land Taxation every man/woman should work-pay land taxes , so the needy people of the land can survive.
"The Act's" never said: Under Church taxation.

The Lord knows and blesses me with my needs, Seek and you will find, Ask and it will be given.

God already see's my faith with my works, without some religious nuttier who thinks paying a percentage pays my way into heaven?

Question: We both agree with the O/Testament tithing law was dismantled, who do you give your 10/100 percent too?

Chylo:


Stop deceiving yourself, if you cannot give up to 10 percent of what you get to God, you are stingy. We are talking of people laying down their lives here and some giving even up to 100 percent and you are there struggling with 10 percent. God will deliver you from mammon.

brocab:
What are you saying: are you on the same planet, is this about your questions on tithing?

What makes you think I'm deceiving myself, when I give' I don't tic myself off with any percentage points.

I don't need to add my figures up at the end of the week to prove myself to God, I don't need worldly riches.

The Lord knows and blesses me with my needs, Ask and it will be given.

God already see's my faith with my works, without some religious nuttier who thinks paying a percentage pays my way into heaven?

Question: We both agree with the law on tithing was dismantled, who do you give your 10/100 percent too?

What I am saying is I have often emptied bank account for the cause of the kingdom, not paltry 10 percent anymore.

Let me ask you, what percent of your income do you give to God, or to needy people generally? If you say you cannot calculate the proportion you give out, you are either lying, or a bad manager of resources, cos you should know where your money is going to. How much do you really give away? Remember the story of the widow that Jesus said gave more because it was all she had. It is wrong if you think God does not care about the proportion of your income you give to Him. Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. If you are honest, and you do give above 10 percent, then there should be no problem for you. If you do give less though, then it is too little and you should try to do more. Not by law now, but by love.

@OP Jews are shylocks known worldwide for being stingy

Chylo:


What I am saying is I have often emptied bank account for the cause of the kingdom, not paltry 10 percent anymore.

Let me ask you, what percent of your income do you give to God, or to needy people generally? If you say you cannot calculate the proportion you give out, you are either lying, or a bad manager of resources, cos you should know where your money is going to. How much do you really give away? Remember the story of the widow that Jesus said gave more because it was all she had. It is wrong if you think God does not care about the proportion of your income you give to Him. Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. If you are honest, and you do give above 10 percent, then there should be no problem for you. If you do give less though, then it is too little and you should try to do more. Not by law now, but by love.

You are either a pompous idiót or you are a wicked tithe collector. But a christian you are not. Otherwise you will be more concerned about extending a hand of support to the weak instead of making empty boast of how you pay a lot of money to pastors who are already rich from their shameful collection of tithes.

Firstly I don't give a percentage.
Secondly I don't calculate my giving, can you calculated your giving all in one day? It would take me a life time working it out.
I don't give to receive brownie points from the Lord.

Is that what you do? Good and faithful servant.

I believe you are a tither, you say you don't tithe but you keep on going back to the 10 percentage tithing law.

Plus your trying to twist words around, expecting us to listen to your mumble jumble preaching, so many will fall under that curse you carry.

Sorry:Jesus Christ has set me free my heart and mind is on the truth.

The Lord said: the truth will set you free.

So are you a preacher looking for more cash' and that little more I don't give, shall I give all my monies to you?

Chylo:


What I am saying is I have often emptied bank account for the cause of the kingdom, not paltry 10 percent anymore.

Let me ask you, what percent of your income do you give to God, or to needy people generally? If you say you cannot calculate the proportion you give out, you are either lying, or a bad manager of resources, cos you should know where your money is going to. How much do you really give away? Remember the story of the widow that Jesus said gave more because it was all she had. It is wrong if you think God does not care about the proportion of your income you give to Him. Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. If you are honest, and you do give above 10 percent, then there should be no problem for you. If you do give less though, then it is too little and you should try to do more. Not by law now, but by love.

You are going to use a 10% tithing us a starting giving point, {Start your engines} In the O/Testament they did give more around: 23%, so why don't you start at that rate, and make all your pastors happy.

Don't forget to advertise it, as the Pharisees done in the old days.

Chylo:


There is no more law. We are not under the law. There is no more law to tithe. But the law was a shadow, and tithing was a principle to show God that all was His. If God prescribed 1/10 in His law, now that we are under grace, why do you think it should be any less than that? I believe that should be a starting point. You can now give more than 10 percent out of love. But for you to say, you wont give God anymore because the law is gone, then you must be very stingy and do not understand the kingdom of God. Cheers.

brocab:
Firstly I don't give a percentage.
Secondly I don't calculate my giving, can you calculated your giving all in one day? It would take me a life time working it out.
I don't give to receive brownie points from the Lord.

Is that what you do? Good and faithful servant.

I believe you are a tither, you say you don't tithe but you keep on going back to the 10 percentage tithing law.

Plus your trying to twist words around, expecting us to listen to your mumble jumble preaching, so many will fall under that curse you carry.

Sorry:Jesus Christ has set me free my heart and mind is on the truth.

The Lord said: the truth will set you free.

So are you a preacher looking for more cash' and that little more I don't give, shall I give all my monies to you?

Brother, forgive me if I sounded like a money-hungry pastor. I do believe that if your heart does not condemn you, then you do NOT stand condemned. And I am truly sorry if you feel offended. Cheers.

dorox:

You are either a pompous idiót or you are a wicked tithe collector. But a christian you are not. Otherwise you will be more concerned about extending a hand of support to the weak instead of making empty boast of how you pay a lot of money to pastors who are already rich from their shameful collection of tithes.

Sorry for sounding that way brother, though you should read my statement in context of what was said earlier. Cheers.

Are you really a Christian, because as I read your scriptures, your biblical writings are more on the JW's beliefs.

They will twist and turn bible text around trying to support people to turn the other way, using Abraham as there foundation.

Read Hebrews 7 Jesus is from another tribe Judah that Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.

And every time the tithing messages are preached, It's Abraham who fits the bill-Not Jesus.

Chylo:


Ok we have gotten somewhere, at least now you concede that my previous interpretation was right about a comparison of priesthoods (and not all that Jesus was from Judah and cannot take tithe crap).

Now, you say there is no example of tithes being preached in the new testament, let's say you are right. Would you accept that selling all properties and giving all at the apostles' feet was preached and practiced? If you agree, then why do you not practice that? The answer will show you that love of money is the root of all these arguments. Anybody that doesn't want to pay it should keep his money, there is no compulsion. Even in the apostles' time, it was voluntary (Ananias was killed because he lied that it was all the money he brought when he kept some. If that happened today, would you call it fair?).

Let me now be clear: I will concede that tithing in itself is an old testament concept, but the new testament does teach the following:
- being generous with God's blessings to you to the local church or assembly
- give to the poor
- when you give, not IF, give what you feel in your heart, not under compulsion
- God will be generous to you in the same measure as you are generous to others
- you should contribute to those who teach you spiritually (my opinion of what Gal 6:6 says)

I believe the legalistic nature of tithing was necessary because of the hardness of man's heart and God knowing that leaving people on their own, they wont give. People are naturally selfish. This was only a shadow though. The light is that we are to give liberally. If God set 10% in his old covenant as the rule, why should we in the new do any worse, or any less? In my opinion, that is as good a benchmark as any to get started.

Now, Paul's collection for the Jerusalem church occupies significant portions of his letters (1 Cor 16:1–4; 2 Cor 8:1–9:15; Rom 15:14–32) and it is even so important to Paul that he is willing to face hostility for it (Romans 15:30-31).

To every man his own. Cheers.

brocab:
Are you really a Christian, because as I read your scriptures, your biblical writings are more on the JW's beliefs.

They will twist and turn bible text around trying to support people to turn the other way, using Abraham as there foundation.

Read Hebrews 7 Jesus is from another tribe Judah that Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.

And every time the tithing messages are preached, It's Abraham who fits the bill-Not Jesus.

I don't get your point. Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek and Heb 7 says Jesus is a priest not after Levi, but after Melchizedek and even stated that Levi himself paid tithes to Melchizedek (in Abraham's loins), thus the Melchizedek priesthood is greater than the Levi one. How does Jesus' tribe Judah come into this?

Accepted, we aren't angry at you, you need to understand, twisting bible verses won't sit with any of us.
Plus your teachings is from another tribe, one that may believe "Abraham" is their true foundation.
Many use Abram as a starting point to preach on tithes.

With Jesus we hear a lot of guessing, because they don't know him. He said clearly his from another tribe, not the tribe of tithing.
Jesus's tribe, is the true foundation, so we don't need to talk about tithing, or a percentage, Jesus didn't preach it.

Their are so many different religions out there, and no-one really seems to recognizes Him, they recognize Abraham.
Jesus said: He came in his Fathers name and no-one accepted him, and if someone else comes in his own name him you will accept.

The world follows its own, like sheep ready for the slaughter.

Chylo:


Brother, forgive me if I sounded like a money-hungry pastor. I do believe that if your heart does not condemn you, then you do NOT stand condemned. And I am truly sorry if you feel offended. Cheers.

brocab:
Accepted, we aren't angry at you, you need to understand, twisting bible verses won't sit with any of us.
Plus your teachings is from another tribe, one that may believe "Abraham" is their true foundation.
Many use Abram as a starting point to preach on tithes.

With Jesus we hear a lot of guessing, because they don't know him. He said clearly his from another tribe, not the tribe of tithing.
Jesus's tribe, is the true foundation, so we don't need to talk about tithing, or a percentage, Jesus didn't preach it.

Their are so many different religions out there, and no-one really seems to recognizes Him, they recognize Abraham.
Jesus said: He came in his Fathers name and no-one accepted him, and if someone else comes in his own name him you will accept.

The world follows its own, like sheep ready for the slaughter.

Read Heb 7 again in an easy english translation, cheers.

I did, now your turn to read Hebrews it's in English.
Hebrews 7: 12-14 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
V's 13 For he of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.
V's 14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.
So it's in black and white read it and wimp.
So that must mean we also are from the other tribe no-tithing. no-percentage.
Your turn.
Let me ask you, why are to trying to push everyone to pay more then a percentage when you say you don't believe in tithing.

Chylo:


Read Heb 7 again in an easy english translation, cheers.

You should read back on your scrip's read through clearly, you said: Jesus is not all from Judah.

Chylo:


I don't get your point. Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek and Heb 7 says Jesus is a priest not after Levi, but after Melchizedek and even stated that Levi himself paid tithes to Melchizedek (in Abraham's loins), thus the Melchizedek priesthood is greater than the Levi one. How does Jesus' tribe Judah come into this?