TheIkoro:
It is written, and by me: GOD is no longer with Christianity. I will not bother repeating myself
here: not only because I see that there apparently remain a few who - though yet supposedly in
the camp of Christianity - do seem to have a longing for the knowledge of The
Truth; but also because, as it is written,

Answer not a fool according to his folly,
lest you be like him yourself.

That which, however, I will state here, I will state with words which will not leave me bereft of
the good of GOD (as is Christianity) because, as it is also written,

Answer a fool according to his folly,
lest he be wise in his own eyes.

And thus, I will answer the greatest folly that has ever risen out of any faith in GOD - that would any other
being be worshipped as the one true good God; despite that which is written, that which was said:
"WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD? No one is good but God alone." - I will answer that folly with these words
(from the book, Ten Biblical Truths That Christians Always Strive To Deny; yet to be published, soon to be published):

"As it is written, and of Jesus,

" ''who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.'

"As it is written, and of Lucifer,

" 'For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

" 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH.'

"Therefore who then can Lucifer be, if not he 'who, being in the image of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God?'

"HE THOUGHT IT NOT ROBBERY TO BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH."

And finally, having answered the folly that is of Christianity according to its folly, I
will leave Christian apologists that have absolutely no semblance of common sense between their ears to continue to insist
that all it takes to be equal with GOD is to be (as was not only Jesus; but as was, even, Adam - AND,
all that is Man) made in the image of GOD.

- Ikoro Iyineleda.

Pharisees committed the unforgivable sin by saying Jesus did His miracles by the power of satan.
I wonder what is the penalty for saying Jesus is satan?
.

dolphinheart:

If you have an issue with my post , it should be on if what I posted is true or not.

You teach that Jesus is not God.
I believe that Jesus is God.
I agree with TheIkoro, that teaching: "Jesus is not God", is a fool in his folly.
.

johnw74:


By not ascribing the works to the owners of the works you allow people to think the works are yours,
no matter how many excuses you may give.

Most of all of this post of yours again is copied from the internet also,
you should give credit or links to the owners of the works.



Of course, I have already said that.

If you think those translations I posted are not modern translations,
then what do you think they are?
do you think they are the ancient texts?
do you think modern translations have to be written in the 20th or 21st century?



You must be blinded and confused by using other peoples works.
.

The issue should not be if the words I posted are mine or not, I'm not dragging intellectual capacity or works with you on this thread neither I'm I trying to get marks for my post.
On this thread the issue should be on if what I posted about 1 ti 3: 16 is true or false and not on the source of what I posted.
Like I said before, it is easier and best for me to use and adjust already typed words on the internet that best convey my beliefs and thoughts.
I dnt believe you will be thinking that I have all the books , scriptures and manuscripts in hard copy with me, cus I'm suprised that you are trying to accuse me that I source for info on this scripture from the internet.
Though I still stand by my explanations, I will try not to allow the discussion on the verse not to be derailed by trying to add some of the internet pages I took the words from .

I do have a problem with the way u are cherry picking my posts and refusing to answer my questions and views.
I've made assertions on why the verses that use "God " in that verse used it and why modern translations of those manuscripts use "he" "which " and "who". If you want to reply to my post, then reply on all the points I mentioned and dnt pick .

Now back to the issue .
The issue is on the words that should be ascribed to 1ti 3:16

Some versions of the bible use the word "God " and some dnt .
I've explained why some use the word and why some dnt and conclusion we should draw from both .

Bible translators that translated the manuscripts in the 1600s do not have all the manuscripts and technology used by modern translators to ascertain the authencity of certain words in the manuscripts.(this is my personal view and its left for adjustments if stronger prove are being giving to belief otherwise )

By "mordern " , there is no exact date for it , but I believe it does not include bible translations from the 1600s .

The bible translations version that you posted are all from the 1600s
1. There first edition on which other editions take as source of info is from the 1600s
2.other versions that are first published in the mordern era, did not take their translations from the manuscripts but rather from the translations of the 1600s , mainly the king James version .

This is why I said that im right when I stated that modern translations do not use the word "God " in 1ti 3:16.

U said the modern scriptures are currupt. In my next posts , I will give prove as to the falsehood of these assertions .

Before you reply , please read the footnote on 1 ti 3:16 in the new king James version (which I believe u think its not currupt) and tell everyone on this thread what you see there.

The followings are taken from web pages on the internet and they are not based on dolphinheart personal views and believes. I'm posting it because they give us a better understanding on the issue under discussion , which is on the words of 1ti 3:16



King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) 1
Timothy 3: 16
And without controversy great is the
mystery of godliness: God was manifest
in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of
angels, preached unto the Gentiles,
believed on in the world, received up into
glory.
Although the above verse reads as “God
was manifest in flesh”, majority of
Trinitarian Bible Translations, read it as:
“He was manifest in flesh.” A lot of
Scholars agree that the word “God” was
not in the original text, but was added by
later scribes. The earliest and best
manuscripts does not have the word
“God” in it but rather “He”, “who” or
“which.” Furthermore, even modern
(Trinitarian) Bible Translations disagree
with the KJV and few other translations,
for putting the word “God” in 1 Timothy 3:
16. Let’s now show what the other Bible
Translations put for 1 Timothy 3:16.
1. American Standard Version 1901
And without controversy great is the
mystery of godliness; He who was
manifested in the flesh.
2. Common English Bible
Without question, the mystery of
godliness is great: HE was revealed as a
human.
3. Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
Great beyond all question is the formerly
hidden truth underlying our faith: He was
manifested physically and proved
righteous spiritually
4. Douay-Rheims 1899
And evidently great is the mystery of
godliness, which was manifested in the
flesh,
5. English Standard Version Anglicised
(ESVUK)
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery
of godliness: He was manifested in the
flesh.
6. NET Bible (©2006)
And we all agree, our religion contains
amazing revelation: He was revealed in
the flesh.
7. Holman Christian Standard Bible
(©2009)
And most certainly, the mystery of
godliness is great: He was manifested in
the flesh.
8. Good News Translation (GNT)
No one can deny how great is the secret
of our religion: He appeared in human
form.
9. Lexham English Bible (LEB)
And most certainly, great is the mystery
of godliness: Who was revealed in the
flesh,
10. THE MESSAGE
He appeared in a human body, was
proved right by the invisible Spirit
11. Aramaic Bible in Plain English
(©2010)
And this Mystery of Righteousness is truly
great, which was revealed in the flesh and
was justified in The Spirit
12. New Century version
He was shown to us in a human body.
13. Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New
Testament (MOUNCE)
And undeniably great is the mystery of
godliness, who was revealed in flesh.
14. Revised Standard version
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery
of our religion: He was manifested in the
flesh
15. Douay-Rheims
And evidently great is the mystery of
godliness, which was manifested in the
flesh.
16. New English Translation (NET)
And we all agree, our religion contains
amazing revelation: He was revealed in
the flesh.
17. New International Version (NIV)
Beyond all question, the mystery from
which true godliness springs is great:He
appeared in the flesh.
18. New International Version – UK
(NIVUK)
Beyond all question, the mystery from
which true godliness springs is great:He
appeared in the flesh.
19. New American Standard Bible
By common confession, great is the
mystery of godliness: He who was
revealed in the flesh.
20. New Revised Standard Version
(NRSV)
Without any doubt, the mystery of our
religion is great: He was revealed in flesh.
21. English Standard Version
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery
of godliness: He was manifested in the
flesh
22. Revised Version 1881
And without controversy great is the
mystery of godliness; He who was
manifested in the flesh.
23. The Voice (VOICE)
And I think you will agree that the mystery
of godliness is great: He was revealed in
the flesh.
So we see from the above Trinitarian Bible
translations all agreeing that the word
“God” is not in there. This alone should
once and for all refute the KJV translation.
Because there are some hard-headed
Trinitarian’s who will still insist that 1
Timothy 3: 16 in KJV is right and other
Christian translations are wrong. We will
go further now and show more evidence.
Greek Manuscripts that have not go

http://discover-the-truth.com/2013/07/29/1-timothy-316-did-god-become-manifest-in-flesh/

We will
go further now and show more evidence.
Greek Manuscripts that have not got
the word “God” (Theos) in it:
Brooke Foss Westcott (1825–1901) and
Fenton John Anthony Hort (1828–1892)
Constantin von Tischendorf
Notice how Westcott, Fenton and
Tischendorf three well-respected
Scholars, when they read the original
Codex Alexandrinus for 1 Timothy 3:16
they did not see the word “God” in it,
instead they seen the Greek word ὃς
which means “he” or “who.”
Corrupt Translations
—-King James Bible
—-Darby Bible Translation
—-Webster’s Bible Translation
—-World English Bible
—-Young’s Literal Translation
Let’s see if the above Translations are
right in inserting the word “God” instead of
“He”, who” or “which.” Scholars
commenting on 1 Timothy 3:16.
1. John Albert Bengel
“Theos of the rec. Text has none of the
oldest MSS. In its favour, no version as
early as the seventh century: and as to
the fathers, ex. Gr. Cyril of Alex. And
Chrysostom, quoted for theos, sec
Tregelles on the printed text of N. T., in
which he shows these fathers are
misquoted. Theodoret, how ever does
support it. Liberatus, Victor Tununensis
(both of 6th cent.), affirm that
Macedonius, under the Emperor
Anastasius, changed OC into theos in
order to support Nestorianism. AC
corrected, G, read OC. So Memph. And
Theb. The old Latin fg and Vulg. Have
quod, referring to…, taken as a personal
designation for the antecedent. The Syr.
Peschito, and in fact all versions older
than the seventh cent., have the relative
NOT theos. D (A) corrected, alone of the
uncials, favours O. The silence of the
fathers of the fourth cent., though theos
would have furnished them with a strong
argument, is conclusive against it.” [1]
2. Anthony Buzzard
“Another example of a text which was
altered is 1 Timothy 3:16. This verse
reads in the KJV: “God was manifested in
the flesh .” Modern versions have
corrected the word “God” to “He who.” The
alteration of an original “He who” (in Greek
Oj) was very sneakily accomplished when
some scribes changed the O (omicron)
into a q (theta) giving qj (theta sigma).
The reading THS was an abbreviated form
of the Greek word theos, God. All that had
to be done was to draw a little line across
the middle of the O to produce the Greek
letter theta (q). Then the text was made to
sound Trinitarian and to support the
Incarnation: “God was manifested in the
flesh.” “He who” (O j) was made to read
“God” (qj).” [2]
3. Isaac Newton
“All the Churches for the first four or five
hundred years, and the authors of all the
ancient versions, Jerome, as well as the
rest read ‘ Great is the mystery of
godliness, which was manifested in the
flesh.’” [3]
4. Bart D. Ehrman
“The passage in question, 1 Tim. 3:16,
had long been used by advocates of
orthodox theology to support the view that
the New Testament itself calls Jesus God.
For the text, in most manuscripts, refers
to Christ as “God made manifest in the
flesh, and justified in the Spirit.” As I
pointed out in chapter 3, most
manuscripts abbreviate sacred names
(the socalled nomina sacra), and that is
the case here as well, where the Greek
word God (QEOS) is abbreviated in two
letters, theta and sigma (QS), with a line
drawn over the top to indicate that it is an
abbreviation. What Wettstein noticed in
examining Codex Alexandrinus was that
the line over the top had been drawn in a
different ink from the surrounding words,
and so appeared to be from a later hand
(i.e., written by a later scribe). Moreover,
the horizontal line in the middle of the first
letter, Q, was not actually a part of the
letter but was a line that had bled through
from the other side of the old vellum. In
other words, rather than being the
abbreviation (thetasigma) For “God” (QS),
the word was actually an omicron and a
sigma (OS), a different word altogether,
which simply means “who.” The original
reading of the manuscript thus did not
speak of Christ as “God made manifest in
the flesh” but of Christ “who was made
manifest in the flesh.” According to the
ancient testimony of the Codex
Alexandrinus, Christ is no longer explicitly
called God in this passage.” [4]
5. Johann Jakob Griesbach
“This reading OS, is supported by most
ancient witnesses of all classes
[manuscripts, versions, and Fathers] and
it is recommended also, by its internal
indications of truth. On the contrary, the
Vulgate Theos, was neither the primitive
reading of the Alexandrine, nor of the
Western recension: and further, it cannot
be defended by arguments drawn from
nature [or goodness] of the reading itself;
but it is supported only by a number of
manuscripts of a later date, belonging
chiefly to the Constantinopolitan
recension; and by the dubious credit to the
more modern Greek Fathers; and could
not be found in any monument of antiquity,
prior to the close of the fourth century.”

(u can read more on this webpage )

http://discover-the-truth.com/2013/07/29/1-timothy-316-did-god-become-manifest-in-flesh/

on 29 September 2014, at 2...
An Historical Account of Two
Notable Corruptions of
Scripture
A Historical Account of Two Notable
Corruptions of Scripture is a dissertation
by the English mathematician and scholar
Sir Isaac Newton. This was sent in a letter
to John Locke on 14 November 1690 and
built upon the textual work of Richard
Simon and his own research. The text was
first published in English in 1754, 27 years
after his death. The account claimed
to[citation needed] review all the textual
evidence available from ancient sources on
two disputed Bible passages: 1 John 5:7
and 1 Timothy 3:16 .
Newton describes this letter as "an account
of what the reading has been in all ages,
and what steps it has been changed, as far
as I can hitherto determine by records",[1]
and "a criticism concerning a text of
Scripture".[2] He blames "the Roman
church" for many abuses in the world[1]
and accuses it of "pious frauds".[2] He adds
that "the more learned and quick-sighted
men, as Luther, Erasmus, Bullinger,
Grotius, and some others, would not
dissemble their knowledge".[3]
1 John 5:7
See also: Comma Johanneum
In the King James Version Bible, 1 John 5:7
reads:
Using the writings of the early Church
Fathers, the Greek and Latin manuscripts
and the testimony of the first versions of
the Bible, Newton claims to have
demonstrated that the words "in heaven,
the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one," that support the
Trinity doctrine, did not appear in the
original Greek Scriptures. He then attempts
to demonstrate that the purportedly
spurious reading crept into the Latin
versions, first as a marginal note, and later
into the text itself. He noted that "the
Æthiopic, Syriac, Arabic, Armenian, and
Slavonic versions, still in use in the several
Eastern nations, Ethiopia, Egypt, Syria,
Mesopotamia, Armenia, Muscovy, and
some others, are strangers to this reading".
[4] He argued[5] that it was first taken into a
Greek text in 1515 by Cardinal Ximenes on
the strength of a late Greek manuscript
'corrected' from the Latin. Finally, Newton
considered the sense and context of the
verse, concluding that removing the
interpolation makes "the sense plain and
natural, and the argument full and strong;
but if you insert the testimony of 'the Three
in Heaven' you interrupt and spoil it."[6]
Today most versions of the Bible are from
the Critical Text and omit this verse, or
retain it as only a marginal reading.
1 Timothy 3:16
The shorter portion of Newton's dissertation
was concerned with 1 Timothy 3:16, which
reads (in the King James Version):
Newton argued that, by a small alteration in
the Greek text, the word "God" was
substituted to make the phrase read "God
was manifest in the flesh." instead of
"which was manifested in the flesh.".[n 1]
He attempted to demonstrate that early
Church writers in referring to the verse
knew nothing of such an alteration.[7]
Summary of both passages
Newton concludes: "If the ancient churches
in debating and deciding the greatest
mysteries of religion, knew nothing of these
two texts, I understand not, why we should
be so fond of them now the debates are
over."[8] With minor exceptions, it was only
in the nineteenth century that Bible
translations appeared changing these
passages. Modern versions of the Bible
from the Critical Text usually omit the
addition to 1 John 5:7, but some place it in
a footnote, with a comment indicating that
"it is not found in the earliest manuscripts".
[9] Modern translations of 1 Timothy 3:16
following the Critical Text now typically
replace "God" with "He" or "He who", while
the literal Emphasized has "who".[10] A
number of papers in the years following
responded to Newton, notably John
Berriman in 1741, who had seen at least
some of Newton's text prior to publication.
Later, Frederick Nolan in 1815, Ebenezer
Henderson in 1830 and John William
Burgon in the Revision Revised in 1883 all
contributed substantially to the verse
discussion.
Historical background
Newton did not publish these findings
during his lifetime, likely due to the political
climate. Those who wrote against the
doctrine of the Trinity were subject to
persecution in England. The Blasphemy Act
1697 made it an offence to deny one of the
persons of the Trinity to be God, punishable
with loss of office and employment on the
first occasion, further legal ramifications on
the second occasion, and imprisonment
without hope for bail on the third occasion.
Newton's friend William Whiston (translator
of the works of Josephus) lost his
professorship at Cambridge for this reason
in 1711. In 1693 a pamphlet attacking the
Trinity was burned by order of the House of
Lords, and the next year its printer and
author were prosecuted. In 1697 Thomas
Aikenhead, an eighteen-year-old student
charged with denying the Trinity, was
hanged at Edinburgh, Scotland.
It was published in 1754.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Historical_Account_of_Two_Notable_Corruptions_of_Scripture



(more to come )

What may have happened was discovered by
John J. Wetstein in 1714. As he was carefully
examining one of the oldest NT manuscripts
then known (the Alexandrine Manuscript in
London) he noticed at 1 Tim. 3:16 that the
word originally written there was OC but that
a horizontal stroke from one of the words
written on the other side of the manuscript
showed through very faintly in the middle of
the O. This still would not qualify as an
abbreviation for θεὸς, of course, but Wetstein
discovered that some person at a much later
date and in a different style from the original
writer had deliberately added a bar above the
original word! Anyone copying from this
manuscript after it had been deliberately
changed would be likely to incorporate the
counterfeit ΘC [with bar above it] into his new
copy (especially since it reflected his own
trinitarian views)!
Of course, since Wetstein’s day many more
ancient NT manuscripts have been
discovered and none of them before the
eighth century A.D. have been found with ΘC
(“God”) at this verse!

http://examiningthetrinity..com/2009/10/1-tim-316-god-manifest-in-flesh-kjv.html

So is Fela!

1 Timothy 3:16
Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness
is great: He appeared in a body, was
vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations, was
believed on in the world, was taken up in
glory. (NIV)
1. Although the above verse in the NIV does
not support the Trinity, there are some Greek
manuscripts that read, “God appeared in the
flesh.” This reading of some Greek
manuscripts has passed into some English
versions, and the King James Version is one
of them. Trinitarian scholars admit, however,
that these Greek texts were altered by
scribes in favor of the Trinitarian position.
The reading of the earliest and best
manuscripts is not “God” but rather “he who.”
Almost all the modern versions have the
verse as “the mystery of godliness is
great, which was manifest in the flesh,” or
some close equivalent.

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/1-timothy-3-16

Not for any who don't want to know, but for believers and seekers.

Jesus is God:



Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”
Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)

Isaiah 44:6 - (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”

Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by His self alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,



This is very important:

John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.”




John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 4:12 - “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood)
Revelation 1:5,6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”



***

2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

***



Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”
.

johnw74:
Not for any who don't want to know, but for believers and seekers.

Jesus is God:



Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”
Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)

Isaiah 44:6 - (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”
.

I think you are trying to play politics with this discussion, lots of questions has been raised to show you that trinity is false and lots of bible quotation has been used to support this. You have so far refused to answer the questions or tell us what you understand by the quoted verses. You think posting your views all over again will help in asserting ur beliefs as true.

I will endeavor to explain most, if not all of the bible verses you quoted to futher show you the falsefullness of ur beliefs.
And I do pray that you answer some of the questions posted earlier.

Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall
call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

You are claiming that by applying the name Immanuel to Jesus, the Bible teaches that Jesus is God(almighty). If we follow this logic, then the young man Elihu, who comforted and corrected Job, was also God. Why? His name means “My God Is He.”

Jesus never claimed to be God(almighty). (John 14:28; Philippians 2:5, 6) But he did reflect his Father’s personality perfectly, and he fulfilled all of God’s promises regarding the
Messiah. ( John 14:9; 2 Corinthians 1:20)

The name Immanuel well describes Jesus’ role as the Messianic Seed, a descendant of David, the one who proves that God is with those who worship Him.

In announcing Jesus’ coming birth, did Jehovah’s angel say that the child would be God himself? No, the announcement was: “He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most
High.” ( Luke 1:32, 35, RS; Jesus was sent into the world by God; so by means of this only- begotten Son, God was with mankind.
— John 3:17; 17:8.

It was not unusual for Hebrew names to include within them the word for God or even an abbreviated form of God’s personal name. For example, Eli′athah means “God Has Come”; Jehu means “Jehovah Is He”; Elijah means “My God Is Jehovah.” But none of these names implied that the possessor was himself God.

I would advise you to also look at the other mention of immanuel in Isaiah to get a better understanding.

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given; And the
government will be upon His shoulder. And
His name will be called Wonderful,
Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father,
Prince of Peace.

This verse is refering to jesus.

Jesus is called a wonderful councelor - In his teaching, Jesus offered wise counsel for everyday living. He proved himself to be the foretold “Wonderful Counselor.”He had a profound knowledge of God’s Word and will, a keen understanding of human nature, and a deep love for humankind.
Hence, his counsel was always practical and in the best interests of his listeners. Jesus uttered “sayings of everlasting life.” Yes, when followed, his counsel leads to salvation.— John 6:68.

Jesus is called evalasting father - During his Millennial Reign, Christ will become a father to others also. In fact, all earth’s inhabitants who receive everlasting life will gain it because they exercise faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice. ( John 3:16) He thus becomes their “Eternal Father."
Through jesus ransom sacrifice, he has replaced adam, our first father.

Jesus was called mighty God -
This statement gives solid support to a translation such as “the Word was a god” at
John 1:1. The Word’s preeminent position among God’s creatures as the Firstborn, the one through whom God created all things, and as God’s Spokesman, gives real basis for his being called “a god” or mighty one.
The Messianic prophecy at Isaiah 9:6 foretold that he would be called “Mighty God,” though not the Almighty God. The zeal of his own Father, “Jehovah of armies,” would
accomplish this. ( Isa 9:7 :
Darby Bible Translation
Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end, upon the
throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with judgment
and with righteousness, from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of Jehovah of hosts will perform this.
Certainly if God’s Adversary, Satan the Devil, is called a “god” ( 2Co 4:4) because of his dominance over men and demons (1Jo 5:19; Lu 11:14-18), then with far greater reason and propriety is God’s firstborn Son called “a god,” “the only-begotten god” as the most reliable manuscripts of John 1:18 call him.
When charged by opposers with ‘making himself a god,’ Jesus’ reply was: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’? If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?” ( Joh 10:31-37) Jesus there quoted from Psalm 82, in which human judges, whom God condemned for not executing justice, were called “gods.” (Ps 82:1, 2, 6, 7) Thus, Jesus showed the unreasonableness of charging him with blasphemy for stating that he was, not God, but God’s Son.
Therefore we can rightly say that jesus is "a God" , but jesus is not "God almighty".





Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,”
says the Lord, “And My servant whom I
have chosen, That you may know and
believe Me, and understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed, Nor
shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the
Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”

The verses are refering to jehovah, the father and not jesus.

American Standard Version
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah......

Darby Bible Translation
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah......

World English Bible
"You are my witnesses," says Yahweh....

Young's Literal Translation
Ye are My witnesses, an affirmation of
Jehovah......

Some bible translations remove the word meaning yaweh/jehovah and replaced it with the word LORD/ God . Hence ur confusion .


Savior: Repeatedly the Scriptures refer to God as Savior. At Isaiah 43:11 God even says: “Besides me there is no savior.” Since Jesus is also referred to as Savior, are God and Jesus the same? Not at all. how?
Titus 1:3, 4 speaks of “God our Savior,” and then of both “God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.” So, both persons are saviors.
Jude 25 shows the. elationship, saying:
“God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (See also Acts 13:23.)
At Judges 3:9, the same Hebrew word (moh·shi′a‛, rendered “savior” or “deliverer”) that is used at Isaiah 43:11 is applied to Othniel, a judge in Israel, but that certainly did not make Othniel God, did it?

A reading of Isaiah 43:1-12 shows that verse 11 means that Jehovah alone was the One who provided salvation, or deliverance, for Israel; that salvation did not come from any of the gods of the surrounding nations.


Revelation 1:17-18;
Although Jehovah is referred to as “the first and the last” at Revelation 22:13, in that there is none before or after him, the context in the first chapter of Revelation shows that the title “the First and the Last” there applies to Jesus Christ. He was the first human to be resurrected to immortal spirit life and the last one to be so resurrected by Jehovah
personally.— Col. 1:18.


Isaiah 44:6 and 2 Peter 1:1
The explanation on savior also best explains this scriptures.

To be continued......

johnw74:
Not for any who don't want to know, but for believers and seekers.

Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by His self alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)

Isaiah 44:24 ,John 1:3, Colossians 1:16 .

This verses does not indicate that jesus is almighty God .
The bible explains to us , who created and through whom he created other things.
Let's look at the scriptures explanation on creation and what role jesus and his father played in creation .

Throughout the Scriptures Jehovah God (the father)is identified as the Creator. He is “the Creator of the heavens, . . . the Former of the earth and the Maker of it.” ( Isa 45:18, Am 4:13, Ac 4:24; 14:15; 17:24) “God . . . created all things.” (Eph 3:9)

Jesus Christ recognized Jehovah as the One who created humans, making them male and female. ( Mt 19:4; Mr 10:6) (he did not ascribe the creation to himself here but ascribed it to God)

Hence, Jehovah is fittingly and uniquely called “the Creator.”—Isa 40:28.
It is because of God’s will that all things “existed and were created.” (Re 4:11)
Jehovah, who has existed for all time, was alone before creation had a beginning.— Ps
90:1, 2; 1Ti 1:17.

Jehovah reminded Job that He had taken specific steps in founding the earth and
barricading the sea and indicated that there exist “statutes of the heavens.” ( Job 38:1, 4-11, 31-33) Furthermore, God’s creative and other works are perfect.—De 32:4; Ec 3:14.

Jehovah’s first creation was his “only- begotten Son” (Joh 3:16), “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Re 3:14) This one, “the firstborn of all creation,” was used by Jehovah in creating all other things, those in the heavens and those upon the earth, “the things visible and the things invisible.” ( Col 1:15-17) John’s inspired testimony concerning this Son, the Word, is that “all things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence,” and the apostle identifies the
Word as Jesus Christ, who had become flesh. ( Joh 1:1-4, 10, 14, 17)
As wisdom personified, this One is represented as saying, “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way,” and he tells of his association with God the Creator as
Jehovah’s “master worker.” ( Pr 8:12, 22-31)

After creating his only-begotten Son, Jehovah used him in bringing the heavenly angels into existence. This preceded the founding of the earth, as Jehovah revealed when questioning Job and asking him: “Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth . . . when the morning stars joyfully cried out together, and all the sons of God began shouting in applause?” ( Job 38:4-7) It was after the creation of these heavenly spirit creatures that the material heavens and earth and all elements were made, or brought into existence. And, since Jehovah is the one primarily responsible for all this creative work, it is ascribed to him.— Ne 9:6; Ps 136:1, 5-9.

This firstborn spirit Son was used by his Father in the creation of all other things. ( Joh 1:3; Col 1:16, 17) This would include the millions of
other spirit sons of Jehovah God’s heavenly family ( Da 7:9, 10; Re 5:11), as well as the
physical universe and the creatures originally produced within it. Logically, it was to this firstborn Son that Jehovah said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our
likeness.” ( Ge 1:26) All these other created things were not only created “through him”
but also “for him,” as God’s Firstborn and the “heir of all things.”— Col 1:16; Heb 1:2.

Jesus in not a co-Creator. The Son’s share in the creative works, however, did not make him a co-Creator with his Father. The power for creation came from God through his holy spirit, or active force. ( Ge 1:2; Ps 33:6) And since Jehovah is the Source of all life, all animate creation, visible and invisible, owes its life to him. ( Ps 36:9) Rather than a co- Creator, then, the Son was the agent or instrumentality through whom Jehovah, the Creator, worked. Jesus himself credited God with the creation, as do all the Scriptures.—

So the issues on creation does not mean jesus is the father.

To be contnued

dolphinheart:


I will endeavor to explain most, if not all of the bible verses you quoted to futher show you the falsefullness of ur beliefs.

You don't believe the scriptures I posted and you change their meaning, you don't fool believers who know and believe the Word.

johnw74:
Not for any who don't want to know, but for believers and seekers.

Friend, calm down, on this you are missing the point of the passage in that Rev. pls, follow the post below.

NEWBIN:
Revelation 22:12-16

12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”


WHICH OTHER CONVICTION DO YE DOUBTERS STILL NEED

Rev 22:6-13 talked about Yahweh sending his angel, then from verse 16 and 17 talked about Jesus the root of Devid.

see:


"And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. " (Revelation 22:6-13).
..........:..........
That ^ is talking about Yahweh that sends His angel.

After Yahweh sends his Angel, then Jesus sends his angel in subsequent vers 16 below:


"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." (Revelation 22:16-17).
..................

The God of the Prophets Is YAHWAH.
The almighty is not of the root of David.

Yahweh is not a morning star.

"The lord God of the prophet" is Yahweh. QED.

Smh

correctguy0900:



Jesus was tempted as a flesh, remember dat Jesus did not come as a spirit but as a mere man like u, so he couldn't be above temptation

Don't be confused and confuse others, the bible says that God cannot be tempted, simple.

It's not meant to creat confusion and then needs your human explanation to make sense.

It's either Jesus was tempted or he was not tempted.

If he was tempted, it then means Jesus is not the same person. Simple!

*Edited*

johnw74:
Not for any who don't want to know, but for believers and seekers.

John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.”


John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 4:12 - “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood)
Revelation 1:5,6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)

John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.”

To ignore God’s purpose concerning his Son, to build hopes on any other foundation, to form conclusions regarding one’s life course on any other basis would be to believe a lie, to be deceived, to follow the leading of the father of lies, God’s Adversary. (Mt 7:24-27; Joh 8:42-47) It would mean ‘to die in one’s sins. For this reason Jesus did not hold back from declaring his place in God’s purpose.(Joh 8:23, 24).
He is the messiah, the son of God. jehovah is his father and God, that's why Jesus said to these very disciples: “The Father is greater than I am.”— Joh 14:28.

If the statement "i am" is the issue here,and you think "I am means "God", then kindly explain the use of the statement in john 14 :28


-------

John 8:58 -
Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

This simply , in its context mean that before abraham , jesus existed. The discussion was on age of existence.
---

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

No one comes to the father, jehovah, the one true God, our creator,our only God except he accepts jesus as the one he sent to earth, the messaiah, the one he used to redeem us to him, the only one we should follow to gain evalasting life.
Jesus and the father are not the same.

----

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

Question : is jesus the father?
----

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

On the occasion of Jesus’ appearance to Thomas and the other apostles, which had removed Thomas’ doubts of Jesus’ resurrection, the now-convinced Thomas exclaimed to Jesus: “My Lord and my God! [literally, “The Lord of me and the God (ho The·os′) of me!”].” Some scholars have viewed this expression as an exclamation of astonishment spoken to Jesus but actually directed to God, his Father. However, others claim the original Greek requires that the words be viewed as being directed to Jesus. Even if this is so, the expression “My Lord and my God” would still have to harmonize with the rest of the inspired Scriptures. Since the record shows that Jesus had previously sent his disciples the message, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God,” there is no reason for believing that Thomas thought Jesus was the Almighty God. ( Joh 20:17) John himself, after recounting Thomas’ encounter with the resurrected Jesus, says of this and similar accounts: “But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of
believing, you may have life by means of his name.”—Joh 20:30, 31.

----

Acts 4:12 - “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

The only road to salvation is through the one the father sent(gave) to us, now the name of that one is jesus, the lamb of God.
We can only be reconciled to God through our faith in jesus and his ransom.

----

You stated that Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood)

King James Bible
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Darby Bible Translation
Take heed therefore to yourselves, and to all the flock, wherein the Holy Spirit has set you as overseers, to shepherd the assembly of God, which he has purchased with the blood of his own.

Fotenote on Acts 20:28 in New International Version reads :
a. Acts 20:28 Many manuscripts of the Lord
b. Acts 20:28 Or with the blood of his own Son.

Footnote on Acts 20:28 in English Standard Version (ESV) reads :
a. Acts 20:28 Some manuscripts of the Lord
b. Acts 20:28 Or with the blood of his Own

TEV states : " through the death of his own son, like wise some other bible translations

Good News Translation (GNT)
So keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock which the Holy Spirit has placed in your care. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he made his own through the blood of his Son.
Footnotes:
a. Acts 20:28 God; some manuscripts have the Lord.
b. Acts 20:28 through the blood of his Son; or through the sacrificial death of his Son; or through his own blood.


Which rendering(s) agree with 1 John 1:7, which says: “The blood of Jesus his [God’s] Son cleanses us from all sin”?

And also Revelation 1:4-6 which says :
John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from him who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits that are before his throne;
and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loveth us, and loosed us from our sins by his blood;
and he made us to be a kingdom, to be priests unto his God and Father; to him be the glory and the dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

As stated in John 3:16, did God send his only-begotten Son, or did he himself come as a man, so that we might have life?
It was the blood, not of God, but of his Son that was poured out.


To be continued...........

truthislight:


Don't be confused and confuse others, the bible says that God cannot be tempted, simple.

It's not meant to great concussion and then needs your human explanation to make sense.

It's either Jesus was tempted or he was not tempted.

If he was tempted, it then means Jesus is not the same person. Simple!

satan tried to tempt Lord Jesus, but he did not succeed, Jesus overcame satan, God cannot succumb to temptation.
Jesus is Lord - God, not just a man as some who don't know Him teach.
.

johnw74:
Not for any who don't want to know, but for believers and seekers.

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”



***

2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

***



Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”
.

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

Some other translations read : “who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no
consideration to a seizure [Greek, har·pag·mon′], namely, that he should be equal to God.” (RS, NE, TEV, NAB NWT)

Which thought agrees with the context?
Verse 5 counsels Christians to imitate Christ in the matter here being discussed. Could they be urged to consider it “not robbery,” but their right, “to be equal with God”? Surely not!
However, they can imitate one who “gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” (Compare Genesis 3:5.)
Such a translation also agrees with Jesus Christ himself, who said: “The Father is greater than I.”— John 14:28.

The Expositor’s Greek Testament says: “We cannot find any passage where [har·pa′zo] or any of its derivatives [including har·pag·mon′]
has the sense of ‘holding in possession,’ ‘retaining’. It seems invariably to mean ‘seize,’ ‘snatch violently’. Thus it is not permissible to glide from the true sense ‘grasp at’ into one which is totally different, ‘hold fast.’”—(Grand Rapids, Mich.; 1967), edited by W. Robertson Nicoll, Vol. III,aZCswttp pp. 436, 437.


-----
Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

American Standard Version
looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Douay-Rheims Bible
Looking for the blessed hope and coming of the glory of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ,

Which translation agrees with Titus 1:4, which refers to “God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior”? Although the Scriptures also refer to God as being a Savior, this text clearly differentiates between him and Christ Jesus, the one through whom God provides salvation.
Unless you want to tell us that jesus is the father.

Henry Alford, in The Greek Testament, states: “I would submit that [a rendering that clearly differentiates God and Christ, at Titus 2:13] satisfies all the grammatical requirements of the sentence: that it is both structurally and
contextually more probable, and more agreeable to the Apostle’s way of writing.”—(Boston, 1877), Vol. III, p. 421.

-----
Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the
scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, YOUR GOD, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

Well, u urself just acknowledge that jesus has a God, superior person to him .

-----
2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Jesus emptied himself and took the form of men, he became flesh, was made flesh by God. So that he became like adam , to fufil his assignment that he was given .

------
Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says
the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

This reference is to jehovah , the father, the almighty .
-------
Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the
First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”

The alpha and omega here is refering to jehovah, the father who is the almighty God, the true God .

Una don come back again with this False teaching, Jesus being Almighty God is as true as Amadioha being the true God.

This matter has been properly discussed, check older treads. It is annoying to see this kind of thread on the FP again.

FACTS:

Jesus is a Mighty God but not Almighty.

There are Many persons called 'God' in the bible eg Angels, Man, Satan etc.

Jesus saying 'I AM' doing mean he is God, if that were so, every person who identifies himself 'I am' is God too ( don't change the rules). Replace the phrase 'I am' in Jesus original statement with its supposed substitute and you see the entire sentence makes no sense.

Thomas called Jesus God, people believe that; Jesus called the Father/Jehovah his God people refuse to believe that.

Jesus has his own God whom he answers to, the disciples who accompany him know this but persons who lived today deny this.

johnw74:
Not for any who don't want to know, but for believers and seekers.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,



This is very important:

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God..


This verse contains two forms of the Greek noun the·os′ (god). The first is preceded by ton (the), a form of the Greek definite article, and in this case the word the·on′ refers to Almighty God. In the second instance, however, the·os′ has no definite article. Was the article mistakenly left out?
The Gospel of John was written in Koine, or common Greek, which has specific rules
regarding the use of the definite article. Bible scholar A. T. Robertson recognizes that if both subject and predicate have articles, “both are definite, treated as identical, one and the same, and interchangeable.”
Robertson considers as an example Matthew 13:38, which reads: “The field [Greek, ho a·gros′] is the world [Greek, ho
ko′smos].” The grammar enables us to understand that the world is also the field.
What, though, if the subject has a definite article but the predicate does not, as in John
1:1? Citing that verse as an example, scholar James Allen Hewett emphasizes: “In such a construction the subject and predicate are not the same, equal, identical, or anything of the sort.” To illustrate, Hewett uses 1 John 1:5, which says: “God is light.” In Greek, “God” is ho the·os′ and therefore has a definite article. But phos for “light” is not preceded by any article. Hewett points out: “One can always . . . say of God He is characterized by light; one cannot always say of light that it is God.” Similar examples are found at John 4:24, “God is a Spirit,” and at 1 John 4:16, “God is love.” In both of these verses, the subjects have definite articles but the predicates, “Spirit” and “love,” do not. So the subjects and predicates are not interchangeable. These verses cannot mean that “Spirit is God” or “love is God.”

Therefore a number of Bible translators did not use the phrase “the Word was God.” Why not? Based on their knowledge of Biblical Greek, those translators concluded that the phrase “the
Word was God” should be translated differently. How? Here are a few examples:

“The Logos [Word] was divine.” (A New Translation of the Bible)

“The Word was a god.” (The New Testament in an Improved Version)

“The Word was with God and shared his nature.” (The Translator’s New Testament)

14th century - Wycliffe's Bible (from the 4th-century Latin Vulgate) reads: "In the beginning was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the word.

1808 “and the Word was a god” - Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in An Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text , London.

1864 “and a god was the Word” (left hand column interlinear reading) The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London.

1867 “In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God”

- The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible. 1935 “and the Word was divine” - The Bible—An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago.

1955 “so the Word was divine” - The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen.

1978 “and godlike sort was the Logos” - Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin.

1822 "and the Word was a god." - The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.);

1863 "and the Word was a god." - A Literal Translation Of The New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863);

1885 "and the Word was a god." - Concise Commentary On The Holy Bible ( R. Young, 1885);

1879 "and the Word was a god." - Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979);

According to these translations, the Word is not God himself. * Instead, because of his high position among Jehovah’s creatures, the Word is referred to as “a god.” Here the term “god” means “mighty one.”

GETTING MORE FACTS
Most people do not know Biblical Greek. So how can you know what the apostle John really meant? Think of this example: A schoolteache r(john) explains a subject to his students (you and I). Afterward, the students differ on how to understand the explanation. How can the students resolve the matter? They could ask the teacher for more information. No doubt, learning additional facts would help them to understand the subject better. Similarly, to grasp the meaning of John 1:1, you can look in the Gospel of John for more information on Jesus’ position. Learning additional facts on this subject will help you to draw the right conclusion.
For instance, consider what John further writes in chapter 1, verse 18: “No man has seen [Almighty] God at any time.” However, humans have seen Jesus, the Son, for John says: “The Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory.” - John 1:14. How, then, could the Son be part of Almighty God?
John also states that the Word was “with God.” But how can an individual be with someone and at the same time be that person? Moreover, as recorded at John 17:3, Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God.” -John 20:31. Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God.
This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be
understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God.

TO CONFIRM THE FACTS
Think again about the example of the schoolteacher and the students. Imagine that some still have doubts, even after listening to the teacher’s additional explanation. What could they do? They could turn to another teacher for further information on the same subject. If the second teacher confirms the explanation of the first one, the doubts of most students may be put to rest. Similarly, if you are not sure what the Bible writer John was really saying about the relationship between Jesus and Almighty God, you could turn to another Bible writer for further information. Consider what was written by Matthew, for example. Regarding the end of this system of things, he quotes Jesus as saying: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God?
Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal.
You might say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so,
what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?
Psalm 90:2;
Acts 7:55;
Colossians 1:15.

The lengths some go to, to try and prove Jesus is not God,
copying and pasting the works of men instead of looking to the works of God - the Bible.

According to these translations, the Word is not God himself. * Instead, because of his high position among Jehovah’s creatures, the Word is referred to as “a god.” Here the term “god” means “mighty one.”

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (logos), and the Word (logos) was with God (theos), and the Word was God (theos).

The Word (logos) was God (theos).

NEWBIN:



Jesus said the Father was greater than He not because Jesus is not God but because Jesus was also a man; and as a man, he was in a lower position. He was ". . . made for a little while lower than the angels . . ." (Heb. 2:9). Also in Phil. 2:5-8, it says that Jesus "emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men . . ."
So, Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was simply acknowledging that He was also a man; and as a man, he was subject to the laws of God so that He might redeem those who were under the law, namely, sinners (Gal. 4:4-5).

Ensure to read my comment properly before quoting me...that is for next time.

johnw74:
The lengths some go to, to try and prove Jesus is not God,
copying and pasting the works of men instead of looking to the works of God - the Bible.



Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (logos), and the Word (logos) was with God (theos), and the Word was God (theos).

The Word (logos) was God (theos).

Sir , stop cherry picking my posts
I gave u explanations and evidences supporting my believes. you refuse to answer questions pertaining to ur beliefs, you refuse to explain(using the scriptures ) bible verses that throw out ur beliefs. You refuse to look at other peoples explanations and proves.
I used all the scriptures u quoted to explain to you that trinity is false, you refuse to do that in my case.

men translated the word of God into English. Some men translated it to mean "the word was God" and some men translated it to mean "the word was a God" .
To show you which of the men is right, I went into issues concerning translation of words from the koine greek to English .you refuse to do that .

To show you which of the men is right, I showed you examples on other bible verses that had similar problems in translation and how they where translated by both men , you refuse to do that.

To show you which of the men is right, I showed you other statements by the writer of that verse to show you what he really meant. You refuse to do that.

To show you which of the men is right, I showed you what other writers think about the issue under discussion, you refuse to do that.

To show you which of the statements is right, I showed you what scholars think on translating that verse, you refuse to do that.

All you have done is to show "agidi" . An example is when we were discussing on 1 ti 3:16. You stated that the bible translation I quoted are wrong and the bible translations you quoted are right. I then went on to direct(show) you the footnote of one of the bible translations you believe are right (the NKJV) which affirms the statements made by other translations on the issue . Still you no wan belief.

dolphinheart:


I gave u explanations...
you refuse to answer questions...
you refuse to explain...
You refuse to look at other...
I used all the scriptures...
you refuse to do that...
I went into issues concerning...
you refuse to do that...
I showed you examples on...
you refuse to do that...
I showed you other statements...
You refuse to do that...
I showed you what other writers think...
you refuse to do that...
I showed you what scholars think...
you refuse to do that...
All you have done is to show "agidi"...
I then went on to direct(show) you...
Still you no wan belief...

Yes, you are very good dolphinheart,
in your own eyes.



I'm not interisted in what you teach, when this is the sort of thing that you teach:

According to these translations, the Word is not God himself. * Instead, because of his high position among Jehovah’s creatures, the Word is referred to as “a god.” Here the term “god” means “mighty one.”

I have told you before that you are not my teacher, but you think you are the teacher and that others are your pupils.
.

This dolphinheart and johnw74 don craze o.

see long posts sha....

johnw74:
The lengths some go to, to try and prove Jesus is not God,
copying and pasting the works of men instead of looking to the works of God - the Bible.



Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (logos), and the Word (logos) was with God (theos), and the Word was God (theos).

The Word (logos) was God (theos).

Hosea 12:3,4 " In the womb he took his brother by the heel, and in his manhood he wrestle/strove with God, He wrestle/ strove with the Angel and prevailed......"

Angel is God too.

Explain Revelation 1:1

johnw74:


Yes, you are very good dolphinheart,
in your own eyes.



I'm not interisted in what you teach, when this is the sort of thing that you teach:



I have told you before that you are not my teacher, but you think you are the teacher and that others are your pupils.
.

Sir, I'm not good o ! , only jehovah is good.

I'm not saying you should be interested, though personaly I wish you are. We are having a discussion, I learn from you and you might learn from me. For example, until you mentioned 1 ti 3:16 , I never really remembered reading that verse in full context. I just glance over it . And I thank you for bringing it up.

I'm not a teacher, I have my own shortcomings and I do not fully know everything on the scriptures, I'm still a learner. So how can I try to be ur teacher.


Like I said, I dnt know every, but I do know one thing, one thing that I totally believe in, and which is : " this means evalasting life, their (us, me and you, everyone on these thread) taking in knowledge of you(someone definitely not jesus here) , the only true God , and of the one you sent forth, jesus Christ . John 17:3

The father sent jesus
Jesus is not the father
The father is the only true God
Therefore I worship the father/jehovah/ the only true God.

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RikoduoSennin:


Hosea 12:3,4 " In the womb he took his brother by the heel, and in his manhood he wrestle/strove with God, He wrestle/ strove with the Angel and prevailed......"

Angel is God too.

Explain Revelation 1:1

The Angel of the Lord is just that, "the Angel of the Lord"

the Angel of the Lord, not the Angel is the Lord.

He is the Lords representive with the Lords authority.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Would the Father have made the Son be so much better than the Angels, if the Father was an Angel.

You don't believe Jesus is God, and you believe God is an Angel??



Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

The verse needs no explanation,
God gave Jesus Christ a revelation to show unto His servants,
and Jesus sent the revelation with His Angel to John.
.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in
divers manners spake in time past unto the
fathers by the prophets,

(this same God told the fathers that his name is jehovah and he alone is the most high God
Jesus confirmed this God to be the father, his father , who sent him, who bears withness as to who he is)

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken
unto us by his Son, whom he hath
appointed heir of all things, by whom also
he made the worlds;

(this God appointed jesus as heir of all things .
If jesus is God,how can he inherit what he already owns ?
"by whom also he made the worlds " .hope this fully explains of jesus and his role in creation. God used jesus to create the worlds)

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his
glory, and the express image of his person,
and upholding all things by the word of his
power, when he had by himself purged our
sins, sat down on the right hand of the
Majesty on high;

(jesus is not sitting on the throne, but sat down at the right Hand of the father, receiving the glory he had with the father before coming to earth)

Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than
the angels, as he hath by inheritance
obtained a more excellent name than they.

("being made" : jesus was made , who made jesus?can God be made? )

Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels
said he at any time, Thou art my Son,
this day have I begotten thee? And again, I
will be to him a Father, and he shall be to
me a Son?

(this is my son , who I have approved )

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ,
which God gave unto him, to shew unto his
servants things which must shortly come to
pass; and he sent and signified it by his
angel unto his servant John:

(God almighty gave jesus........ If jesus where God the this verse should read "God gave God " or" God gave himself" )

johnw74:


The Angel of the Lord is just that, "the Angel of the Lord"

the Angel of the Lord, not the Angel is the Lord.

He is the Lords representive with the Lords authority.

Explain Hosea 12:3,4 please.

They called the Angel God just as Jesus was also called God- the same spelling. If you say it means the Angel came with the Father's authority then that applys to Jesus also.

johnw74:

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

See the Phrases "Being Made", "by INHERITANCE", "OBTAINED a more", "THIS DAY I have BEGOTTEN you".

What comes to your mind.

johnw74:

Would [/b] the Father have made the Son [/b] be so much better than the Angels, if the Father was an Angel.

I didn't say the Father was an angel, you did. But I am interested in the bolded section, The Father MADE the son, Is God Almighty made.

johnw74:

You don't believe Jesus is God, and you believe God is an Angel??

Hahaha, you got me wrong, I believe Jesus is Mighty God but he is not Almighty God. I don't believe God his an Angel, I quoted that scripture to show you that just as "The Word was called God at John 1:1 so also Angel was called God at Hosea 12:3,4"

johnw74:

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

The verse needs no explanation,
God gave Jesus Christ a revelation to show unto His servants,
and Jesus sent the revelation with His Angel to John.
.

Wow, you saw the chain of hierachy right.

Revelation, Prophecy spring from God/Jehovah, he is the source not Jesus. God/Jehovah GAVE Jesus- so Jesus is not Almighty God. You can't give yourself/part of yourself something to give to another being, can you now.

I believe Jesus is Mighty God but he is not Almighty God.

There are not two true Gods, either God is mighty or God is Almighty.
I say He is Almighty.

Mar_12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
.