PastorAIO:

I hope this is not a case of argument just for the sake of argument. The more we discuss, the less I know what you're talking about.

joseph1013:
Question?

Humor me, how does the devil take a man to the top of a mountain and from that view, he is able to see all the kingdoms of the earth.

This betrays an ignorance of basic geographical understanding.

It begs the question, how does an infallible and inerrant book inspired by an unknowing God make this simple geographical mistake?

PastorAIO:


All-knowing, I presume.

joseph1013:
Question?

IS GOD LOVING, MERCIFUL AND JUST?

Christians think their god is a loving god who is merciful and just. Most of them are as sure their god is loving as they are that he exists. But what does the Bible say?

In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, babies, and animals.

In Exodus 12:29, God slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle to punish the Pharaoh

In 2 Samuel 12:15-18 God kills David's baby to punish David.

The Bible has dozens of examples of God committing murder, including mass murder, of unjustly punishing people and of inciting the Hebrews to kill, to take slaves and to rape.

It is plain this is not a loving god. It is a vengeful god who places a VERY LOW VALUE on human life. So why are Christians so certain that their god is a loving god?

Maybe it's because they WANT him to be loving or because they are told God is loving and they don't bother to read their own scripture? I don't know. Perhaps they will tell us?

But, if they are so wrong about this crucial aspect of God's character, what else have they got wrong?

JMAN05:


Your being alive is an evidence of His love. If not, people like you could have been wiped out. Out of the hearts abundance the mouth speaks. Your eyes will only see what you consider to be injustice in the bible. Your eyes see nothing more. What a lover of truth!

frank317:


Ya right... And the fact that many are dead is an evidence of what? His love too?

JMAN05:


If you take a cigarrette after being warned that you ll die when you do. if you eventually die cos of it, who will you blame?

JMAN05:


If you take a cigarrette after being warned that you ll die when you do. if you eventually die cos of it, who will you blame?

frank317:


Just listen to your self. Do u want to pretend cigarette is the only cause of death u known?
Look at what religion is doing to you.
BTW how many people die of cigarette smoking? Can you compare to the number of innocent people who have died in motor accident, bokoharam and ISIS insurgency , hunger, robbery attacks and all that.

Their deaths are sure a sign of your Gods love, because he allowed them to die and kept u alive today

Weah96:


Ok, you win the cigarettes business. But what if you're struck by a drunk driver and you don't smoke or drink?

JMAN05:


Jehovah never wanted things to be this way. If only our first parents listened, we would not have gone through all these. God was so hurt when he observed in Noah's day the bad thoughts issuing from peoples mind, and the wickedness that people did. (Gen 6:5, 6) Jehovah has not changed, He still hates to see people suffer and die. But He is not the cause.

But He provided a way out. No matter what we go through today, let us constantly obey His commands. Even if we die, He will raise us up to a new world where ISIS and fracas won't be anymore. Won't you like to be there?

joseph1013:
[b]Hi friends, I don't even know if I can follow through with this and continue infinitely like I would love to do. I don't know. I only have a feeling that writing best captures what I have to say.

This page will be my questions and rant page.

I am not naive enough to expect that most who come to this page will abandon the faith they hold dear, but I do hope to
convince my readers that many of us who walk away have not done so out of a rebellious, juvenile whim, but rather
out of a careful weighing of the reasons for and against our former faith. Our decision, far from being "sad," as many of
my friends and family perceive it, represents a move from unquestioning acceptance of tradition to a spirit of
openness and adventure that pursues the evidence wherever it leads. We left in pursuit of truth.

A little about me: I grew up in a devoted Christian family loving the Lord. I was devoted and zealous. I was the 'dream' child. And because I was equally brilliant, parents pointed me as an example to their kids.

Of course as I grew up, I had questions. One of the earliest I remembered was asking how Cain had a wife if there were only thre people on earth (Abel having died). The answer my mum gave to that and many of the innocent questions of mine at a tender age was that I should make sure I get to heaven so that I could ask God myself. It didn't prove sufficient but what was a child to do otherwise.

I was a part of the school christian groups. I also remember being picked by the Children Church's teachers to preach to the entire Church congregation on Children sunday. It was awesome.

When I got to one of the foremost Federal Universities, I could not be more devoted. I was now into theological texts and got more than five translations of the Bible. I was a walking bible. Of course, there were no bible apps at that time. I consumed alot of religious materials, and read books by so many Christian authors. I also got into reading Islamic text, mainly so I could know what I was talking about when I encountered Muslim apologists, and I was very successful with them.

With time, I was made a Pastor of one of the most vibrant fellowships on Campus. We did not only study the Greek and Hebrew renditions, we know at heart copious parts of scriptures and could reel them out in our sleep. We were respected on Campus, at least by the Christian community. We would argue scriptures and ratte you with our knowledge of the redemptive work of Christ and the concept of the New Creature.

As an Engineering student, I spent 3 of my 5 years being a Pastor of this fellowship.

It was after my NYSC that I came across certain comments in books that made me look twice and search further to see if what I had believed and devoted my time to were indeed true.

I have been on this journey for a while now and I can say that I have come to a stage where I can sufficiently say that I am longer a Christian or a religionist. I do not conclusively deny the existence of God, but I can totally say that nobody has given me a convincing evidence for the existence of the Abrahamic God.

Some have told me that I am angry with God. That cannot be true, for you cannot get angry with something you are convinced does not exist in the context that I mentioned earlier. Some have said I believed wrongly, to these folks I say they know not what they sayeth.

I invite Christian readers to consider the possibility that my apostasy is a result not of divine or diabolical deception but of a simple weighing of the evidence ... It might be that I am wrong. It might be that I have not sought God sufficiently or studied the Bible thoroughly enough or listened carefully enough to the many Christians who have admonished me ... Maybe. But the knowledge that billions of seekers have lived and died, calling out to God for some definitive revelation without ever receiving it, or receiving revelation that conflicts with the revelation others have found, contributes to my suspicion that there is no personal God who reveals himself to anyone.

One of my primary reasons for having this page is self-serving: I do not relish knowing that others consider me to be on the road to eternal damnation if I don't repent, and I want to do what I can to change their perception of those of us who do not share their faith. Yet is this self-serving endeavor reckless? If I believed it would worsen the lives of all those who follow my rants and questions, then yes, it would be reckless. But I am convinced that life can actually improve for those who come to understand that our earthly existence is not simply a stage, a cosmic morality play, a precursor to an eternity to come. This life is the real (and only) deal.

Enjoy...

And hey, if you look at my Nairaland history, I do love Football alot and I'm an investment buff. I'm interested in Politics too (Sai Buhari!!!) and most of all, I love adventure. I love to travel and see new places. I'm also an eclectic reader. Who says atheists and agnostics have a boring life? [/b]

TheIkoro:


Atheists and agnostics may not live a boring life; but not even they can speak ill of the golden rule of Masculinism, this being:

In every nation he that feareth GOD, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with Him.

For even the atheist and the agnostic, regardless of how little he knows of an omnipotent Creator, do know enough to have to
say:

He that doeth good, and worketh righteousness, is accepted by all that is good and righteous - all;
including the highest authority in the good, and the highest authority in the righteous. And
regardless of whether thou calls that authority thy God,, or thy President, or the Secretary-General of the United Nations, or even thy father.

- Ikoro Iyineleda.

joseph1013:
Thelkoro, I don't quite get your drift. What's the summary in like 5 sentences.

TheIkoro:


A word is enough for the wise.

- Ikoro Iyineleda.

frank317:


Jehova never wanted things to be this way? So man's disobedience changed your God's unchangeable will? Pls am not a kid... Stop telling me bed time stories.

Well all these ones na long story and has nothing in relation with ur earlier statement which was 'your being alive was an evidence of his love, if not people like you would have been wiped out'
I was only responding to d bolded statement. I don't know the meaning of all the ranting you are doing above. Pls respond to my question... If its the love of your God that is keeping him alive, what version of his love or hatred that is killing so many innocent people that are dying?

The cigarette business is meant to explain the actions of our first parents, who went against the command given them, led
to the bad things we all see today. Jehovah didn't cause it.

However, we can live in a world free of these wickedness, but our actions today will determine if we will be among the the New World's inhabitants.

If we follow God's command today, we can enjoy a wonderful future tomorrow.

JMAN05:


God has the power to kill you. inspite of your words, He still alows you to live. That is love.

As for your question. This is good for that:



God's purpose for the earth is for humans to populate it, and live forever. That hasn't changed.

frank317:


Oga... If it is God's love keeping me alive... If God's love is not allowing him to kill me despite all my bad words, why is has his love not kept millions of people who die on daily basis? Is there anything stronger than his love that is killing all those who die in motor accident? Pls answer my question.

JMAN05:


Death, wickedness, accident illness etc we see today are results of what Adam did.

This does not mean God does not have the power to strike someone dead.

That God allow you to live, even tho he has the power to end your life is in itself a display of love. You still have a chance to change.

frank317:


Guy... If u continue like his this then I must assume you are still to pass waec.

I will ask for the last time

If it is God's love that has kept me alive, why didn't this same love not keep those in church when book haram struck, those people in the bus when accidents happen. Why did this love keep me alive and not them?

JMAN05:


And ur low understanding is becoming worry-some.

My point is that God ALLOWED u to exist and be speaking what you do. He has the power to kill anyone He likes. since u exist and still talk what you do, without His destroying u. Thats an evidence of love.

Those killed by boko haram are victims to the mistake made in Eden. God has when to stop the effects of adamic sin. For now, even the faithful can die, though not struck by God.

God cannot be blamed, though He allowed it. however, if u die wen u ar in God's memory, to God, you are still alive. because ur life is assured.

------------------------------------------------------------

What is the genesis of the problem we see today, including insurgency?

Answer:

It all started from the mistake of our first parents.

Does that mean that God cannot kill?

Answer: No, He can. He can strike those who speak against His name.

Why hasn't He stroke all those who speak against His name?

Answer: Love. He wants them to change. 2Pet 3:9, 10

He however, has a date for the destruction of all the ungodly.

Can your brain decifer it now?

frank317:



Why will God's love keep me alive and not keep millions who die on daily basis? Is God's love not seeing them?

Answer my question and stop gossiping.

A lot of people suffering need his love to keep them alive, yet they are dying in millions. Now you are telling me his love is keeping me. I beg am? Is he not seeing people who need it?

If his love did not keep my mum or my fiance, then it sure is not keeping me. Tell him to fuuuccckkk off with his love and for onece go give it to people who need it.

JMAN05:


We talk next time. thnks for ur time.