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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 6:50pm On Dec 15, 2014
PastorAIO:



For the religionist, it's an unending cycle of shifting grounds. It's difficult to be intellectually honest without being open-minded and contending with the fact that one may have been lied to all of one's life.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by sinequanon: 7:06pm On Dec 15, 2014
joseph1013:
I have been on this journey for a while now and I can say that I have come to a stage where I can sufficiently say that [size=14pt]I am longer[/size] a Christian or a religionist. I do not conclusively deny the existence of God, but I can totally say that nobody has given me a convincing evidence for the existence of the Abrahamic God.

I take that to be a typo. Presumably, you believe you are NO longer a Christian or religionist.

From early in your post, I was wondering what reason could be behind it (your post). I could understand how the attitude of your family towards your move away from Christianity may cause you to reason with them. But I could not understand why the attitude of Christians in general would be so important....

joseph1013:
One of my primary reasons for having this page is self-serving: [size=14pt]I do not relish knowing that others consider me to be on the road to eternal damnation if I don't repent[/size], and I want to do what I can to change their perception of those of us who do not share their faith. Yet is this self-serving endeavor reckless? If I believed it would worsen the lives of all those who follow my rants and questions, then yes, it would be reckless. But I am convinced that life can actually improve for those who come to understand that our earthly existence is not simply a stage, a cosmic morality play, a precursor to an eternity to come. This life is the real (and only) deal.

Even people who call themselves atheists still find themselves appealing to theists. Many do it under the guise of educating the theists. But I believe it is actually doubt and denial of doubt that is causing them to seek a pretext for validation from the theists.

Leaving religion leaves a vacuum for most people. Some take refuge in materialism and science, but they are still in a transition phase, which is quite fragile.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 7:13pm On Dec 15, 2014
PastorAIO:




Haba!! How all of una go see elephant inside room and you nor go talk?

If there was no law then and subsequently no sin, then by what did God judge Cain for murder? Abi Murder no go be violation of any law wey no exist.

Au contraire there was already Sin back then as Genesis 4 tells us:
6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

are you an atheist? All of the event happen before law was giving(jewish law) the fact that the law was not giving yet dos not mean God will not punish you for sin.
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 7:17pm On Dec 15, 2014
ooman:


Ok, So I can now become a Christian and start embezzling company and country money, kill people and take their properties since I will not be judged right?

I now see why there is evil and corruption in the world even though most people are religious. Its because like you, they believe they will not be judged only if they believe. smh
I thought you are serious? What is the meaning of christian? After someone accept jesus,he will be sinless a new creature bible say ''a refining by fire'' thank you for your time.
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 7:35pm On Dec 15, 2014
joseph1013:


Hey buddy, there is no need to punctuate your comments with such statements as 'You are free to choose to love God or hate him, it your choice'. Of course it is my choice and it came by virtue of some really rigorous search.

So back to our discourse. Since there is no law to cause sin, what is the basis for the punishment melted out on Cain in the first instance? Why was Cain punished for what he was not warned about?

One of the things I have noticed about the religious is their tendency to resort to extra-biblical explanations and interpretations. Saying I don't know is often a problem for them. And that is exactly the reason why there are so many sects and denominations in all versions of religions.

You have to ask yourself: why does an all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful God leave his children in this constant confusion that has led men into wars and witch-hunts where tens of millions have been killed.
knowledge of good and evil is there,where did abel get the kind heart to love God? Are cain and abel not brothers? what abel learn from adam cain learn it also, but he chose to kill his brother.you cannot conclude. Your research base only on the genesis creation,the genesis creation story is like a summery, the book of job,isaiah and many other book talk about the God creative power,example genesis never say God created water but the book of job say it.

God did not create this world to be perfect, He only called it good,evil must exist for someone like you to have two option to love God or hate Him,for more information read here http://www.nairaland.com/1995965/athiest-claim-god-existed-prayer
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by Nobody: 7:41pm On Dec 15, 2014
PastorAIO:


You're shifting ground and that is nothing new to religionists. We started off asking how you know your religion is true. You said it's like asking how we know E=mc squared.

I subsequently explained to you with ease how and why I believe E=mc squared. You then shifted and started asking for scientific proof even going into a deep one about scientists not repeating experiments. Nobody is questioning the validity of scientific opinions here. I am only demonstrating that it is very easy for me to lay out why I believe that e=mcsquared. Perhaps you believe that my belief is wrong, that is totally besides the point. The point is that the reasons for my belief are easily laid out. you might not agree... oh, but you do agree... but you dismiss it as hearsay. Good.

I admit that it is just hearsay and it doesn't amount to rigorous proof. Will you admit that your hearsay of muslims seeing paradise before they die is no reason to believe the Koran?

Let me summarise. Nobody asked you for proofs. You asked to explain why you believe something.


I have found out that people often filter out what they do not anticipate. They hear but don't really listen. I have explained why I believe in an earlier comment as follows:

Abuamam:

However, briefly, my beliefs are predicated on a cause and effect principle, a belief in a real reason for existence other than as a medium for passing on mutated DNA, and a belief that our actions have too much effects to go unrewarded or unpunished... one way or the other. Also, the fact is that I have found after much research that Islam gives ME a more credible explanation than non muslim sources...

As for muslims seeing visions of paradise, I merely quoted it to explain to you how silly hearsay evidence sounds to a non believer in the topic discussed. I have heard that some muslims do see such visions, but it does not in any way influence my belief in the existence of a Deity. The above concepts do.

1 Like

Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by Nobody: 7:46pm On Dec 15, 2014
joseph1013:


For the religionist, it's an unending cycle of shifting grounds. It's difficult to be intellectually honest without being open-minded and contending with the fact that one may have been lied to all of one's life.

I could be open minded and admit that I have been lied to all my life, except that no one lied to me. My beliefs are entirely the result of my own researches into the subject. I was once an atheist too.

1 Like

Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by PastorAIO: 8:08pm On Dec 15, 2014
Abuamam:



I have found out that people often filter out what they do not anticipate. They hear but don't really listen. I have explained why I believe in an earlier comment as follows:



As for muslims seeing visions of paradise, I merely quoted it to explain to you how silly hearsay evidence sounds to a non believer in the topic discussed. I have heard that some muslims do see such visions, but it does not in any way influence my belief in the existence of a Deity. The above concepts do.


Well done. You're free to go. I'm sure you didn't find it as tortuous are you thought.
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by PastorAIO: 8:45pm On Dec 15, 2014
malvisguy212:
all of these events
happened before the law was given. According to the
Apostle Paul, when there is no law, [b]there can be no
violation of the law or sin. [/b]So, since the law against
incest was not given until thousands of years later,
there was no theological problem with Cain marrying his sister.

malvisguy212:
are you an atheist? All of the event happen before law was giving(jewish law) the fact that the law was not giving yet dos not mean God will not punish you for sin.

Your two quotes there contradict each other. Is there sin or not? Is there violation of Law or not? If there is no sin then what is the basis of God's punishment?

I'm not an atheist, although I find that when a theist finds that I'm not in agreement with him the response is often to dismiss as an atheist.
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 9:22pm On Dec 15, 2014
PastorAIO:




Your two quotes there contradict each other. Is there sin or not? Is there violation of Law or not? If there is no sin then what is the basis of God's punishment?

I'm not an atheist, although I find that when a theist finds that I'm not in agreement with him the response is often to dismiss as an atheist.

ok,your argument is that the law apply to them (adam and his children)? Historical evidence prove the law was Not giving until thousand years later, so there would have been no prohibition against such marriages at that time
sorry for liken you to an atheist.there are sin God will not just let them live immoral life because the was not giving.
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by honourhim: 11:54pm On Dec 15, 2014
joseph1013:


You're shifting ground and that is nothing new to religionists. We started off with what happened with people who are dead but did not hear the gospel of Christ, you said they'd be judged by conscience. Conscience cannot be used because Jesus has supposedly provided a blueprint for salvation.


How did i shift ground? I said those who died IN THE PAST without hearing about Christ will be judged according to their conscience which is the guide they had. How did they react when their conscience pricked them of an evil act? Then i quoted Acts 17 to buttress that the days of their ignorance(of Christ) were overlooked by God. Then i said in our time(which is the time of hi info tech) the gospel has spread far much wider than before. Hardly will peple claim they ve not heard of Christ.

joseph1013:




And you'd be amazed at the billions of people in this world right now who do not know that there is something called Jesus. And according to the scriptures, how can they believe if they have not heard?

I disagree with you that billions of people in the world right now dont know about Jesus. Not in these days of hi info tech. These are my points. However you can raise your disagreement and where you are right i will acknowledge.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by honourhim: 12:06am On Dec 16, 2014
PastorAIO:


Thank you very mush. I was about to get unto that. in fact I was going to ask if people before the Law had consciences or not. If they did, then what is the conscience based on, the law? Or something else?

Personally I believe human beings are essentially moral creatures. Law or no law, we all have an inner moral compass. Those that know me on NL know that I have always mocked all these 'before the law, after the law' arguments.

Conscience works both with the law and independent of the law. For example, when Cain killed Abel there was no law that says -thou shall not kill. but his response to God when he was asked about Abel shows that his conscience had condemned his action hence his reaction to God's question and the attendant fear that he had that he was going to be killed by people that will see him. Here conscience worked without the law.

In the case of Adam for example, an instruction was given and they failed, when God came to see them they went hiding. Here conscience worked based on the law. I agree with you that law or no law, we all have our moral compass. Though law seems to expose our conscience to more things to react to than when there is no law.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by PastorAIO: 3:04am On Dec 16, 2014
malvisguy212:
ok,your argument is that the law apply to them (adam and his children)? Historical evidence prove the law was Not giving until thousand years later, so there would have been no prohibition against such marriages at that time
sorry for liken you to an atheist.there are sin God will not just let them live immoral life because the was not giving.

My argument is that we all have a moral compass regardless of religion. Religion gives us nothing when it comes to morality.

What do you mean by Sin? I was under the presumption that you would consider violating the Law to be a sin. Therefore in order to sin you would first have to have a law. That is why I'm drawing attention to the fact that Cain was warned about sin long before 'the law'.

1 Like

Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 7:12am On Dec 16, 2014
PastorAIO:


My argument is that we all have a moral compass regardless of religion. Religion gives us nothing when it comes to morality.

What do you mean by Sin? I was under the presumption that you would consider violating the Law to be a sin. Therefore in order to sin you would first have to have a law. That is why I'm drawing attention to the fact that Cain was warned about sin long before 'the law'.

I believe the divine law of God is in existence,God warn adam about the knowledge of good and evil and when he violate this command of God,he face the punishment,with his failure to abide by the command of God he would definitely teach his children to obey God but instead cain disobey God.but the jewish law was not giving at that time so it was not a theological problem.
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by IanDiamonds: 7:35am On Dec 16, 2014
joseph1013:
Hi friends, I don't even know if I can follow through with this and continue infinitely like I would love to do. I don't know. I only have a feeling that writing best captures what I have to say.

This page will be my questions and rant page.

I am not naive enough to expect that most who come to this page will abandon the faith they hold dear, but I do hope to
convince my readers that many of us who walk away have not done so out of a rebellious, juvenile whim, but rather
out of a careful weighing of the reasons for and against our former faith. Our decision, far from being "sad," as many of
my friends and family perceive it, represents a move from unquestioning acceptance of tradition to a spirit of
openness and adventure that pursues the evidence wherever it leads. We left in pursuit of truth.

A little about me: I grew up in a devoted Christian family loving the Lord. I was devoted and zealous. I was the 'dream' child. And because I was equally brilliant, parents pointed me as an example to their kids.

Of course as I grew up, I had questions. One of the earliest I remembered was asking how Cain had a wife if there were only thre people on earth (Abel having died). The answer my mum gave to that and many of the innocent questions of mine at a tender age was that I should make sure I get to heaven so that I could ask God myself. It didn't prove sufficient but what was a child to do otherwise.

I was a part of the school christian groups. I also remember being picked by the Children Church's teachers to preach to the entire Church congregation on Children sunday. It was awesome.

When I got to one of the foremost Federal Universities, I could not be more devoted. I was now into theological texts and got more than five translations of the Bible. I was a walking bible. Of course, there were no bible apps at that time. I consumed alot of religious materials, and read books by so many Christian authors. I also got into reading Islamic text, mainly so I could know what I was talking about when I encountered Muslim apologists, and I was very successful with them.

With time, I was made a Pastor of one of the most vibrant fellowships on Campus. We did not only study the Greek and Hebrew renditions, we know at heart copious parts of scriptures and could reel them out in our sleep. We were respected on Campus, at least by the Christian community. We would argue scriptures and ratte you with our knowledge of the redemptive work of Christ and the concept of the New Creature.

As an Engineering student, I spent 3 of my 5 years being a Pastor of this fellowship.

It was after my NYSC that I came across certain comments in books that made me look twice and search further to see if what I had believed and devoted my time to were indeed true.

I have been on this journey for a while now and I can say that I have come to a stage where I can sufficiently say that I am longer a Christian or a religionist. I do not conclusively deny the existence of God, but I can totally say that nobody has given me a convincing evidence for the existence of the Abrahamic God.

Some have told me that I am angry with God. That cannot be true, for you cannot get angry with something you are convinced does not exist in the context that I mentioned earlier. Some have said I believed wrongly, to these folks I say they know not what they sayeth.

I invite Christian readers to consider the possibility that my apostasy is a result not of divine or diabolical deception but of a simple weighing of the evidence ... It might be that I am wrong. It might be that I have not sought God sufficiently or studied the Bible thoroughly enough or listened carefully enough to the many Christians who have admonished me ... Maybe. But the knowledge that billions of seekers have lived and died, calling out to God for some definitive revelation without ever receiving it, or receiving revelation that conflicts with the revelation others have found, contributes to my suspicion that there is no personal God who reveals himself to anyone.

One of my primary reasons for having this page is self-serving: I do not relish knowing that others consider me to be on the road to eternal damnation if I don't repent, and I want to do what I can to change their perception of those of us who do not share their faith. Yet is this self-serving endeavor reckless? If I believed it would worsen the lives of all those who follow my rants and questions, then yes, it would be reckless. But I am convinced that life can actually improve for those who come to understand that our earthly existence is not simply a stage, a cosmic morality play, a precursor to an eternity to come. This life is the real (and only) deal.

Enjoy...

And hey, if you look at my Nairaland history, I do love Football alot and I'm an investment buff. I'm interested in Politics too (Sai Buhari!!!) and most of all, I love adventure. I love to travel and see new places. Who says atheists and agnostics have a boring life? tongue

At the bolded, please tell us how you came about "Proving a Negative"

Thank God I quoted it so you can't deny the fact
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by IanDiamonds: 7:40am On Dec 16, 2014
joseph1013:


Meaning that God allowed In.ce.st? According to the biblical scriptures, In.ce.st is forbidden.

“Never have sexual intercourse with anyone related to you by blood. I am the Lord." Leviticus 18:6 (God's Word Translation)


The Law was not present then remember? The Law came during the time of moses.
An analogy would be using the court ruling against the publishing of the our Ex-president Olusegun Obasanjo's book "My Watch". The court ruled against the publishing of the book when the book had already been published. Hope you get the analogy.
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by IanDiamonds: 7:48am On Dec 16, 2014
joseph1013:


Hey buddy, there is no need to punctuate your comments with such statements as 'You are free to choose to love God or hate him, it your choice'. Of course it is my choice and it came by virtue of some really rigorous search.

So back to our discourse. Since there is no law to cause sin, what is the basis for the punishment melted out on Cain in the first instance? Why was Cain punished for what he was not warned about?

One of the things I have noticed about the religious is their tendency to resort to extra-biblical explanations and interpretations. Saying I don't know is often a problem for them. And that is exactly the reason why there are so many sects and denominations in all versions of religions.

You have to ask yourself: why does an all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful God leave his children in this constant confusion that has led men into wars and witch-hunts where tens of millions have been killed.

*red herring spotted* I see how you're tryin' to divert from the main issue here. The law of incest is what we're talkin' 'bout here. The scripture you quoted talked 'bout Incest and here you're talkin' 'bout murder. Make up your mind already.
@bolded if you had kept the same idea, you won't be askin' tis' questions today. Talk 'bout Hypocrisy
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by IanDiamonds: 7:54am On Dec 16, 2014
joseph1013:


You should have patiently read my opening post. There is no where I asked you to lose your faith. It's explained there. I only ask for you to be open-minded and let go of all pre-conceived notions. I do not claim to know all things and I dont and never will. However, while I am willing to admit to the fact that I dont know, religionists are not so comfortable with doing so. They resort to religious texts that has been proven to have no final authority.

Back to the response. If 900 years is not 90, who did Cain get married it to? And if in.ce.st can not be considered unholy at that time, then how can Cain be punished for what he did not know to be wrong, in this case the sacrifice?

Also, if you say that in.ce.st was not immoral for the generations before Leviticus because God hadn't said it was immoral. God had yet to relay to Moses his official rules, so because God hadn't put it in writing yet it didn't apply to Cain. Therefore, because God hadn't yet said it was wrong, Abraham, Lot and all the other pre-Leviticus patriarchs could engage in incestuous relations with impunity.

Question: why was Sodom and Gomorrah punished for their 'supposed' sexual perversions?
Are you really askin' tis'?
Adultery, Homosexuality, pre-marital sex. It wasn't 'bout sexual perversion alone. The people were execrable to say the least.
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 8:38am On Dec 16, 2014
sinequanon:

I take that to be a typo. Presumably, you believe you are NO longer a Christian or religionist.

From early in your post, I was wondering what reason could be behind it (your post). I could understand how the attitude of your family towards your move away from Christianity may cause you to reason with them. But I could not understand why the attitude of Christians in general would be so important....

Well, when I was a Christian, I believed in Eternal Security, which was a concept of Once Saved Forever Saved. A couple of holes in that doctrine. There is alot of holes in Once Saved NOT Always Saved too. It all depends on the verses of scriptures you want to cherry-pick. So if you are of the Eternal Security sect, you believe I'll always be a Christian, good for you.

You could not understand why the attitude of Christians could be so important? Really? Have you ever being the only Black in a White-dominated school? Then you know why it takes alot of time to get used to the glare and stare.


sinequanon:
Even people who call themselves atheists still find themselves appealing to theists. Many do it under the guise of educating the theists. But I believe it is actually doubt and denial of doubt that is causing them to seek a pretext for validation from the theists.

Leaving religion leaves a vacuum for most people. Some take refuge in materialism and science, but they are still in a transition phase, which is quite fragile.
[b]
One of the many interesting things about theists is their many assumptions of atheists. Like they do about almost things, they think they know all the reasons atheists do what they do, EXCEPT the reasons atheists themselves give.

Why should we seek the validation of religionists? And how does religion leave a vacuum. You have no idea the freedom being without appealing to a Sky-daddy gives.

I can experience the wonder of studying the strata of the earth, fossils, the evolutionary tree, the coalescing of interstellar dust into stars and planets, and human and animal psychology. I can delight in how the pieces of the puzzle fit together, rather than attributing it all to a magical creation event, which, in its attempt to explain everything, explains only what God did in his inscrutable ways, not how or why he might have done it.

It's fascinating and gratifying to explore why we are plagued with parasites, why men are more eager to have sex than women, why men are more prone to violence than women, why babies have a grasping instinct, why we have toenails, why we crave sweet and fatty foods and become obese, why we gossip, why trees bear fruit, why attractive and fragrant flowers exist, why birds sing, and why there are so many human languages.

Pondering the evolutionary underpinnings of these phenomena is far more satisfying than reading about a talking serpent in a garden or about the Tower of Babel or hearing, "That's just the way God made it." Perhaps it's due to my inquisitive nature, but I've always been more fascinated by "why" and "how" questions than "what" questions.
[/b]

7 Likes

Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 8:52am On Dec 16, 2014
malvisguy212:
knowledge of good and evil is there,where did abel get the kind heart to love God? Are cain and abel not brothers? what abel learn from adam cain learn it also, but he chose to kill his brother.you cannot conclude. Your research base only on the genesis creation,the genesis creation story is like a summery, the book of job,isaiah and many other book talk about the God creative power,example genesis never say God created water but the book of job say it.

God did not create this world to be perfect, He only called it good,evil must exist for someone like you to have two option to love God or hate Him,for more information read here http://www.nairaland.com/1995965/athiest-claim-god-existed-prayer

For every time you bring out this kind of explanation for god who cannot plainly provide it himself, you create many more room for doubt and confusion. So many holes!!! You cook up reasons for actions of people that are not stated in scriptures, and that brings problems.

Why did God reject Cain's sacrifice when there was no instruction otherwise? Since God is all-knowing and all-powerful, why did he reject the sacrifice when he knew that Cain would kill Abel?

God did not create a perfect world, but good and evil to give us choice, yet when we exercise that choice, he punishes us forever? Does that make sense to you?

5 Likes

Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 8:54am On Dec 16, 2014
Abuamam:


I could be open minded and admit that I have been lied to all my life, except that no one lied to me. My beliefs are entirely the result of my own researches into the subject. I was once an atheist too.

And that is why I ask you, how do you know Islam is the one true religion that everyone must embrace else Allah will punish us forever?

4 Likes

Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 9:11am On Dec 16, 2014
honourhim:
How did i shift ground? I said those who died IN THE PAST without hearing about Christ will be judged according to their conscience which is the guide they had. How did they react when their conscience pricked them of an evil act? Then i quoted Acts 17 to buttress that the days of their ignorance(of Christ) were overlooked by God. Then i said in our time(which is the time of hi info tech) the gospel has spread far much wider than before. Hardly will peple claim they ve not heard of Christ.

Again, it's all about cherrypicking verses. Which one should we go for? Is it that of John who said no one comes to the father except through Christ or Acts 17 whoch says God has overlooked them?

Let's stay with Acts 17 a lil. Theologians say that that verse does only applies to those heard the gospel having done many bad things in the past. In other words, if a man is hearing the gospel today, God is telling him to repent because in the past (in the days of ignorance) he did not know better. They say it does not apply to generations gone-by.

Okay let's say it applies to generations gone by, there is no where here where it says conscience will be used. Like I said, religionists have been wired to employ extra-biblical explanations. Give me a verse of scriptures which says conscience will be used for judging who never heard of Christ.


honourhim:
I disagree with you that billions of people in the world right now dont know about Jesus. Not in these days of hi info tech. These are my points. However you can raise your disagreement and where you are right i will acknowledge.

If you think there are not millions and billions of people who have never heard of Christ, then you are very naive and you have stayed long in your lil corner of the world so much that you think everyone is like you.

Venture out more, read more and you ll discover that there is still a vast population of the world that dont even know what Christainity is.

So what happens to them when they die. Tens of them just died while I composed this.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by philfearon(m): 9:14am On Dec 16, 2014
malvisguy212:
the law has not yet made active, is no theological problem but GOD IS ALL KNOWING, God judge him however that was not the sin that lead to his judgment, he was a murderer. Thank you for your time. My battery is low.
Even when you are caught red handed in your lies,you keep building more unnecessary lies to cover it up...
I tire for this kind blindness ooo!!!

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 9:15am On Dec 16, 2014
IanDiamonds:


At the bolded, please tell us how you came about "Proving a Negative"

Thank God I quoted it so you can't deny the fact

Read the whole sentence and not just cherrypick like you guys do the archaic books. Here is the full statement:

[size=14pt]That cannot be true, for you cannot get angry with something you are convinced does not exist in the context that I mentioned earlier.[/size]

So go ahead and read the 'context' I spoke about in what I wrote. If you can't find then I cant help you. We all paid to be educated.

4 Likes

Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by philfearon(m): 9:16am On Dec 16, 2014
honourhim:


The problem with some of you is that you read about God in the bible, summarize whom you think he is(which is not exactly what the bible records about him) and use your summary of him to judge him. It doesnt work that way.

Pls may i ask, what do you know about God as you read in the bible? Kindly answer if you are not going to be arrogant and abusive in this discussion. But if you will be, then ignore this post. Thanks.
Tell me what you know about God that is not in the bible?

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 9:20am On Dec 16, 2014
joseph1013:


For every time you bring out this kind of explanation for god who cannot plainly provide it himself, you create many more room for doubt and confusion. So many holes!!! You cook up reasons for actions of people that are not stated in scriptures, and that brings problems.

Why did God reject Cain's sacrifice when there was no instruction otherwise? Since God is all-knowing and all-powerful, why did he reject the sacrifice when he knew that Cain would Abel?

God did not create a perfect world, but good and evil to give us choice, yet when we exercise that choice, he punishes us forever? Does that make sense to you?
what is your purpose for living in this universe? Do you think God create you to eat and drink,enjoy life the way you like? The bible say;

''Remember your Creator in the days of your youth,
before the days of trouble come and the years
approach when you will say, "I find no pleasure in
them"--Ecclesiastes 12:1

The purpose of you living in this earth is to love God or hate Him,and when you chose to hate Him,STILL he will send someone to warn you of your choice just like am doing now. The world man pray for is not here,it heaven,a perfect place.

NOTE; God did not create evil,he allow evil to exist just like he allow satan to walk the earth.
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 9:22am On Dec 16, 2014
philfearon:

Even when you are caught red handed in your lies,you keep building more unnecessary lies to cover it up...
I tire for this kind blindness ooo!!!
quote were I tell lies.
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 9:23am On Dec 16, 2014
IanDiamonds:

The Law was not present then remember? The Law came during the time of moses.
An analogy would be using the court ruling against the publishing of the our Ex-president Olusegun Obasanjo's book "My Watch". The court ruled against the publishing of the book when the book had already been published. Hope you get the analogy.

Firstly, that analogy is wrong. They didnt ask him not to publish, they only ask him not to launch. Check out Obasanjo's statement in this picture:



So I have debunked that analogy. Let me say this:

The law came after moses, but men were already being punished for other sins except in.ce.st. No? Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? Why did God punish them without giving the law?

When the patriarch lies about Sarai being his sister rather than his wife (which was only half a lie since Sarai was actually his half sister) God does not punish Abraham for lying or for incest. Instead, God afflicts the men who, under the belief that she was not Abraham wife, attempted to sleep with her.

The thing with religionists is that in your rationalization of the wickedness of your god, you leave so many gaps for questions.

4 Likes

Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 9:26am On Dec 16, 2014
IanDiamonds:


*red herring spotted* I see how you're tryin' to divert from the main issue here. The law of incest is what we're talkin' 'bout here. The scripture you quoted talked 'bout Incest and here you're talkin' 'bout murder. Make up your mind already.
@bolded if you had kept the same idea, you won't be askin' tis' questions today. Talk 'bout Hypocrisy

Who says we cant ask as many questions as we want? Is there such a rule here?
Answer this: Why does an all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful God leave his children in this constant confusion of not knowing which is the correct interpretation of Scriptures which has led men into wars and witch-hunts where tens of millions have been killed.

1 Like

Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by philfearon(m): 9:27am On Dec 16, 2014
Another Fella sees the truth!! Well done Joseph ....
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by philfearon(m): 9:29am On Dec 16, 2014
malvisguy212:
quote were I tell lies.
No need quoting it,I will tell it to you...
You said the law didn't apply before God gave the Israelites the Law,what then was Cain judged upon?

1 Like

Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 9:32am On Dec 16, 2014
IanDiamonds:

Are you really askin' tis'?
Adultery, Homosexuality, pre-marital sex. It wasn't 'bout sexual perversion alone. The people were execrable to say the least.

You're saying this only in hindsight. When African men engaged in homosexual relationships as early as 1990s, was there a NIgerian law for 14-year imprisionment for them? Would it be right for them to be charged to court at that time for a law that would take place in 2014?

YOu know Adultery, Homosexuality and Pre-marital sex was wrong because god was said to have given the law to Moses years after. So wihout telling these people, how do you expect them to know they are wrong?

Are you aware that in Russia, you can be arrested and sent to jail if you drive a dirty car? Yet in Nigeria, dirty cars are driven with no repercussion. A man driving a dirty car is instantly seen as a sinner in Russia but we dont bat an eyelid in Nigeria.

Hey. laws can be subjective. And where there is no law, there is no sin, so says your bible.

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