Feraz:
You and that guy have been making me laugh since. I kinda see a Nairalander called 'Musiwa' in him.

For those threatening the OP with fire and brimstone, did God do the same when Job was throwing serious questions at him while he was passing through trials and tribulations? Y'all be acting like Job's friends.

Topic, since we are limited by our senses, it is possible not to see God therefore, believe that he was created by man. I believe that God cannot be created since he is the creator of all things. If he was created by some other intelligent being, then he ceases being called 'GOD'! If we believe that God is a figment of man's imagination, then how about we? Are we figments of a being's imagination? I'm enjoying the inputs from various people here.

TopsyKrete, see the question you put make men dey rack their heads.

gatiano:
You made sense after you threw a punch. nice question! comparing me with musiwa is nice, He loves his clan dearly.

streetzdreamz:
wow,dats a nice piece of gibberish u gat up there man,I mean ur basic life is rooted deep in science and its lies,y'al keep screaming evolution,the big bang theory,bleh bleh bleh in draculas voice,we have tons of theories postulated by humans,the a)nebular hypothesis,the big bang theory and lots more,but 1)scientist later adopted d big bang theory cuz twas d most sensible of all,then d question arose about life,cuz 2)there was no way on mother earth that any living creature wud av survived d big bang,there was no explanation for that save evolution? I mean do u b)atheists think atall? When I was 4-6yrs I was outside wit ma dad at night looking up I tried counting d stars but they obviously filled d entire horizon,so I asked dad dis same question d op is asking,if adam and eve was d first human on earth and GOD created them,"WHO CREATED GOD" he was shocked,then he told me "I have no answer to that and u'v gat to stop asking that kinda question cuz some spiritual things are hidden to man" his answer didn't curb ma curiosity cuz I never was a religious fanatic right from ma childhood,all dose sunday school teachings were like mere stories to me and nfn more,but growing up and acquiring basic knowledge I realized all d theories postulated by science didn't add up in a sensible manner,3)they were all guess works,and from men,humans aint 100percent efficient definitely dia will be flaws,right there I stood a ground"THERE IS A SUPREME BEING OUT THERE" eventhough I might nt end up serving him d way I should cuz I don't dig religion,so y'al atheist shud. Make ur decision and arguement personal nt cuz science,evolution,paleontology says d earth was formed by a cluster of gases,who made d gases? 4)who gave life?who gave the breath in u?do u know ur final destination when u close ur eyes in death?why do we even die?who made the oceans,who made d lands?who made good?who made evil?evolution?big bang theory? Nah ion think so!

xtervaganza:
what's my business with your certificate? What has your certificate got to do etoh what I asked you?



And for calling me ode, the real ode is in your family house

DProDG:


Okay, I numbered the statements I'm gonna respond to
1)If by 'more sensible' you mean had evidence supporting it, then you're right. If you're implying common sense or guess work, well you're *insert ad homoniem*
2)You actually think the big bang was an explosion as described in layman's terms. Showing off some ignorance aren't you?
3)Oh there you said it, "guess work". Please tell me what part of predicting and discovering the cosmic microwave background or finding fossils layed out periodically in strata is guess work. I agree that humans aren't right about everything, but that's why we use the scientific method to test and study the universe.
4)You basically said humans could be wrong, hence, God did it. Once again, the god of the gaps fallacy is being used(this is like the 50th time)

a)the nebular hypothesis is completely different from the Big Bang theory and hasn't been discarded by any means. Again, showing off huh?
b)I like how you think atheism is synonymous with science. Yes I know most atheists are smart but don't confuse the two.

TopsyKrete:
I was in the midst of some students some time ago, engaged in some data update, when some of those student noticed i had some slice bread and moi-moi at my side.

They requested i give them the bread but one suggested i throw out a question, and that who ever gets the answer will have the bread.

I thought to myself, "hey, that's not a bad idea.

The next thing that came out of my mouth as a question was:

"Where was God coming from before HE started creation"?


They all gave up on my afternoon meal.

But seriously, where was God coming from?

Was HE lonely or did HE just acquire the power of the ALMIGHTY from a just concleuded war?

I need the house to help me out on this.

Thanks.

DProDG:


Okay, I numbered the statements I'm gonna respond to
1)If by 'more sensible' you mean had evidence supporting it, then you're right. If you're implying common sense or guess work, well you're *insert ad homoniem*
2)You actually think the big bang was an explosion as described in layman's terms. Showing off some ignorance aren't you?
3)Oh there you said it, "guess work". Please tell me what part of predicting and discovering the cosmic microwave background or finding fossils layed out periodically in strata is guess work. I agree that humans aren't right about everything, but that's why we use the scientific method to test and study the universe.
4)You basically said humans could be wrong, hence, God did it. Once again, the god of the gaps fallacy is being used(this is like the 50th time)

a)the nebular hypothesis is completely different from the Big Bang theory and hasn't been discarded by any means. Again, showing off huh?
b)I like how you think atheism is synonymous with science. Yes I know most atheists are smart but don't confuse the two.

DProDG:


Okay, I numbered the statements I'm gonna respond to
1)If by 'more sensible' you mean had evidence supporting it, then you're right. If you're implying common sense or guess work, well you're *insert ad homoniem*
2)You actually think the big bang was an explosion as described in layman's terms. Showing off some ignorance aren't you?
3)Oh there you said it, "guess work". Please tell me what part of predicting and discovering the cosmic microwave background or finding fossils layed out periodically in strata is guess work. I agree that humans aren't right about everything, but that's why we use the scientific method to test and study the universe.
4)You basically said humans could be wrong, hence, God did it. Once again, the god of the gaps fallacy is being used(this is like the 50th time)

a)the nebular hypothesis is completely different from the Big Bang theory and hasn't been discarded by any means. Again, showing off huh?
b)I like how you think atheism is synonymous with science. Yes I know most atheists are smart but don't confuse the two.

GerogeI:


I do not even get your point, I already told you the bible says that every other thing was evolved, man is the only thing God sat down to make, and added a nature to him that was not of the earth, something alien in today's language.

Evolution is real, it happened, don't be over zealous is disputing something scientifically seen and biblically acknowledge. Just that while man might have also evolved, Evolution was not the origin of man. Man is an exception, and further "stagnant water@ was not the source of the seed of evolution, a creator was in charge.

streetzdreamz:
indulge me,the big bang theory is as a result of what? Fossils laid in stratas of sedimentary rocks are all what? The aligning of d bones of these animals and relating them to modern day animals are what if nt guess works or predictions? Carbon dating isn't a guess work? D earths age aint a guess work?continental drift and plate tectonics isn't guess works? That south america and africa was once together and drifted apart over millions of years isn't guess work?you said humans aint always right hence u use scientific methods to verify ur claims,say,dose methods were delineated by aliens? The scientific equipments used aint modified and manufactured by humans? They'v gat 100percent efficiency? Yea right I don't know ur field of study neither am I an isle of knowledge,but what I do know is dis,science might av answered tens of tHousands of problems,but it can never answer the question of LIFE in its most basic form,u skipped some of ma questions u highlighted due to reasons best known to you,ur believe as an atheist's gat nfn to do with me,same as ma believe has no impact in ur life,I'l respect a man who tells me he chose to believe in no deity whatsoever based on his personal conviction much more than a man telling me there is no God [/b]cuz science said so,or cuz things aint goin the was d individual wants,[b]ion bliv atheists are smart humans I bliv most atheist are delusional beings who wallow in self pity,nt the real free thinker they claim to be!

Ndyoo:

I will start by asking you, the evolutionist, who is not sure that natural selection was the testing factor."What gave natural selection the authority to select and not to select some species to evolve"

The bee and the flower example is simply a mutualistic behaviour but it doesn't explain how the flower came to exist at the first place and the bee too, sure will the bee have other food sources since natural selection basis lies on adaptation and so will the flower have other agent to pollinate it.

In this case, will you say that the Eskimos where selected to live in the cold because of how they regulate their internal environment. -So the cold now lead to a modified homeostasis? Now -how much time do you think would have taken for this change to happen? Evolution takes tons of years to happen but evolution also happens in secs...E.g, Because evolution acts on the genes, a simple exposure to x-ray will change the genetic makeup of an organism. During a culture of micro-organisms in the laboratory, to observe the time taken for the new strains of micro-organisms produced to start resisting antibiotics, it was observed that this starts to happen -within minutes. This is also an example of evolutionary change which we all know. Can you explain the -difference in the time interval and please don't argue that one is still at micro-level and the other is a complex organism since evolution also made us believe that it's from macromolecules, the complex system came into existence and since both are living organism, that won't be an argument.

If evolution proposes a long time scale, sooner or later or will I say, like we have started to experience now, judging from climatic changes, I believe a time will come when there will be a great shift like proposed in milankovitch cycle, where even parts of the europe begin to experience those climates that would be considered foreign to them. Since evolution is something in progress, don't you think the colour of their skin will change with respect to change in weather and climates condition...I mean white people

what do you mean by this...

Evolution is in progress and what's your support towards the existence of aliens...Are you trying to tell me here that you're among the group of scientists that thinks the next change of mankind will be to Aliens, since we started from molecules to monkey and to man.

I really want to get the basis of where you're arguing from so that I will start to counter the claims...and like I see you do argue here with insults, I don't do that...

KingEbukasBlog:


most atheist aint smart stop saying none sense this guy , most atheist copy stuff and paste during arguments online to appear smart . Only Few of them are smart .Not every atheist also agrees with evolution and is even science inclined

streetzdreamz:
1)indulge me,the big bang theory is as a result of what? Fossils laid in stratas of sedimentary rocks are all what? 2)The aligning of d bones of these animals and relating them to modern day animals are what if nt guess works or predictions? 3)Carbon dating isn't a guess work? 4)D earths age aint a guess work? 5)continental drift and plate tectonics isn't guess works? 6)That south america and africa was once together and drifted apart over millions of years isn't guess work? 7)you said humans aint always right hence u use scientific methods to verify ur claims,say,dose methods were delineated by aliens? The scientific equipments used aint modified and manufactured by humans? They'v gat 100percent efficiency? Yea right I don't know ur field of study neither am I an isle of knowledge,but what I do know is dis,science might av answered tens of tHousands of problems,but it can never answer the question of LIFE in its most basic form, 9)u skipped some of ma questions u highlighted due to reasons best known to you,ur believe as an atheist's gat nfn to do with me,same as ma believe has no impact in ur life,I'l respect a man who tells me he chose to believe in no deity whatsoever based on his personal conviction much more than 10)a man telling me there is no God cuz science said so,or cuz things aint goin the way d individual wants,ion bliv atheists are smart humans I bliv most 11)atheist are delusional beings who wallow in self pity,nt the real free thinker they claim to be!

KingEbukasBlog:


all ave been trying to let them know ... there's more to life than science . Science will not and can never answer every thing

DProDG:


Well I can't help but notice every time someone appeals to science and not the bible, theists refer to them as an 'atheist'.

KingEbukasBlog:


You sound agnostic ... All I see in your posts is contradiction ...
1.Evolution took years and not days and in creation
2.Evolution denies the first cause , matter/substance already came in existence ... now the bible actually described the restoration of the earth as seen from Genesis 1 : 2 to wherever the act of creation stopped .

2b.The earth was created in Genesis 1 : 1 -- there is a great lapse of time between Gen 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 .This is the gap theory

2c. How God came about with the creation or making of the creatures before time in this gap theory was not clearly described in the scripture

2d.Every living thing that existed before the creation of Adam is called Pre-Adamic or existed in the "first earth" before Lucifer's flood

3.All God did in the story of creation is to restore all what he created/made in the gap theory and create and not evolve new ones in the young earth which is six thousand - 10,000 years old .See the age of the oldest tree for confirmation .

4.The passages you have listed were descriptions of the restoration process of first creations and not evolution of life other than man

gatiano:
I don't hate white people, there are few of them that are nice and true, to the true teachings. I have few friends from them, but know i don't sympathize with them on their falling. It is however a way to reach our fellow black family to seperate from them, and if they won't, the whiteman would always show his true nature which is a murderer. When the blackman is tired of being murdered on a regular bases and he finally understands how the black on black crime is been organised by the white people as in the case of what is happening in the north of Nigeria, Then they will seperate, not only physically but mentally. I heard a lebanese couple say they own nigeria, those are just one of the example to come. The israelis threatened the south african of market-crashing, this are just the beginning of the anger of the devils. aids and ebola new version will be in market soon, with it correct vaccinations to cripple your thought finally. i can't imagine crippling a thought of a person who is already in the valley of forgetfulness.

Reptilians and co exist, i guess, it is too tough for the forgetful soul of yours to concieve at the moment. black boys forgetfully play more fifa than the whiteman, watch and die over champion league than the owners; So don't be ashamed of playing fifa 14 or 15

DProDG:


Seems like the[b] god-of-the-gaps argument[/b] is the most common here on Nairaland. Evolution is different from abiogenesis. Evolution only says that life evolved from a common ancestor and there's enough evidence supporting the theory. Abiogenesis refers to how life started in the first place. It is still a credible hypothesis and I'm sure you do not expect science to have all the answers at once(that would be really boring ). Nothing is wrong with assuming there was an 'initiator' since we do not know for sure, however, remember it's an assumption that needs to be backed by evidence in order to be called science(intelligent design). Till then, it's not and we just say we do not know..yet.

DProDG:


It's as if you skip half of the paragraphs I type.
1)I DO NOT KNOW and I'm pretty sure you don't either
2)No, predictions* verified.
3)No
4)No
5)No
6)No
7)Didn't say it was perfect but it has a 99.9% success rate. No other model has come even close. Doesn't sound impressive, I know.
Again, "humans could be wrong! Hence, God did it! No one said 100% but they've done their job. You seem to be suggesting we forget about science since we aren't perfect
9)Nope, I'm pretty sure I answered everything that was slightly worth it.
10)Please quote me on that
11)Rather hypcritical don'tcha think?

Idrismusty97:
Exactly! Man first came before any "god". Give yourself the credit for once .

989900:
You basically need more 'faith' to be believe in macro evolution, than you need to believe in a creator/designer/manufacturer.

KingEbukasBlog:


all ave been trying to let them know ... there's more to life than science . Science will not and can never answer every thing

KingEbukasBlog:

Lol ... some chrsitians need to understand the religion can go with science you know .

Lol , so lemme ask you a few questions , Your views on these as an atheist :

1.Black magic / mysticism /diabolism /occultism /Rituals

2.Reincarnation

3.Miracles

4.Obanje

5.Time Travel/Time portals

6.Extinction of dinosaurs

7.Noah's flood

8. Labour during childbirth

9.Non-canonical books of the Bible

10.Purpose of Life without God

GooseBaba:


You keep throwing half truths everywhere in order to buttress your fictional beliefs. Igbo says they own lagos does that make it true. Aids and ebola in africa is real, we as africans need a sane approach to find solutions not Spookism that weakens the mind. So israel threatens the economy of South Africa and we should lose our minds because it fits into your fictional beliefs. What about the economy of Venezuela, Argentina, Russia and Greece. Don't they have external policies hampering their economy... Oh, I forgot they're not blacks.. Such rubbish..!

Oh boy, your ignorance na wa ohh.. If one self induced himself to self-forgetfulness and someone else comes to cripple him, abeg who is to blame..!?

Reptilians and co..! Who are the co..!? Meanwhile, can you kindly give me an address to this intelligent reptilians i need to ask them questions about mentally disturbed individual who call themselves true blacks., if it remains in the pages of a story book and your imagination then we know that you are clearly in the valley of forgetfulness that's why you cannot differentiate between fiction and reality.

GerogeI:


Do not be offended by Gaps, thats what brought us to be questioning in the first place, and as long as GOD is truly a creator, there will be a Gap at the beginning of any theory we postulate trying to explain creation with the intention of excluding Him.

I like your statement above, which boils down to the same thing I have been saying since, that Evolution is an optimisation process which cannot on its own account for creation. Abiogenesis is the same "stagnant water" stuff I advised you guys to avoid, since it has never replicated itself. No need bothering about it since its not even a theory, and has been properly trashed by proponents of bio-genesis. and "No" it is not a credible Hypothesis - credible ones get to become "laws of nature or at least theories"

BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE JEWISH BOOK HAS THE BEST EXPLANATION STILL: GOD CREATED ALL THINGS, FOR SOME HE USED EVOLUTION

streetzdreamz:
it appeared as though I skipped ur post cuz twasnt comprehensive enough for me,u kept on repeating dsame thing,the 1.big bang has something to do with the sun,a cluster of gases and all dose gibberish coming together like a collision,giving out intense heat and energy,and equally gave rise to the earth,ma question earlier was how can any living organism on mother earth survive such a nuclear impact? I guess u dnt know,to all ma questions u answered with a no I'l take it dat u av no explanation to back up ur claims,one more question for u pretty mind,have u seen,heard of any report of a specie of organism evoluting since humans came into existence? Dnt tell me evolution takes a trillion years to occur,even if it does,atleast there oughta be a significant change in some organisms morphology since humans came into existence,do indulge me!!! 2.Am nt ruling science out,just telling u science can't and never will give answers to questions relating to LIFE,CREATION and some MYSTERIES on earth.peace

DProDG:


Offended by gaps? I'm offended by people putting God in the gaps. And no, that's what limits questioning and knowledge as you displayed in your emboldened statements. Saying that gaps in knowledge means God is the creator makes no sense, same goes for 'optimization process'. Abiogenesis is a hypothesis and is being tested same way every current theory has been. Discrediting it because it isn't perfect is like overlooking a toddler because he doesn't know calculus.

Your last sentence in caps doesn't deserve a reply.

macof:


Oh pls make it clear. How a thing can exist outside space and time, more so how it speaks and interacts with u Christians from far away outside of space
is there even an outside to space? such things only exist in our imagination

GerogeI:

No, I have not said Gaps in Knowledge means God is the creator. Rather what I am saying is that if God is truly the creator, then there will always be Gaps no matter how hard you try with your explanations, which is what what we have today. Infact uptill now -there is no single sufficient scientific basis to say there is no GOD.

-As to Abiogenesis, it is an old loose concept that people have lost interest in, seeing as we have been to mars and many other stagnant collections of matter outside the earth, and none of them had the abiogenesis magic of life. So Abiogenesis is a dead hypothesis!

GerogeI:

I will advise you to let go of these unscientific and unbiblical fary tales. There is no pointer to your assertions above in the Book of Genesis.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Please note the word heavens -plural in NIV translation - meaning God made the Universe, the stars and the earth as well.
It further says that in its early state, the earth was without form or void - if you like break that - without form - no shape & void - empty.
Hence the earth was likely a gaseous planet
So which restoration are you talking about? and which creatures are you speaking of? where is the evidence?

Much later, one day as the spirit of God was moving over the face of the depths of gas/liquid, GOD decided to terraform the earth. I doubt this was the first time GOD was doing a terraform. Hence Genesis 1:3-10 which covers the collection of waters from the gas, the separation of the water above (gas and clouds) from those below (oceans). He went further to crust the surface of what would likely have been boiling magma to create solid ground, and also probably receded a lot of volume of water to the poles as ice to make the land crust exposed.

Before this terraform, nothing was said to be on earth and nothing of the nature of carbon life could have been on earth. After these terraforms, God started evolving life on earth as I pointed out to you before. He never sat down to design all the varieties, rather he commanded that they brought forth by there kinds .
THAT IS EVOLUTION!


As to the six days creation time- there is an adequate explanation and its is quite simple.
without the sun, there is no definition of days on earth, in fact the earth was in complete darkness without a star, but notice that the book of Genesis was counting days even before the Great lights were made in verse 14-19. Hence it was not counting earth days, but days in the timing of the first light GOD made. Further the bible clearly informs us that a "a thousand years in his sight is but a second"

What is the scientific proof of that - if GOD is truly a master of the Universe, then he cannot be limited by speed and time. So if we should assume that he can move at up to the speed of light, then by Einstein Theory of Relativity, his time experience if at all, will be widely different from ours cause time will dilate almost infinitely for him. Simply put, there is a scientific basis to postulate that the 6 days of creation is equivalent to billions of earth days or years. This fact makes the basis of your Restoration Gap Hypothesis very very weak indeed, because it was launched in attempt to explain the 6 days of creation- hope you know that.