joseph1013:

I'm simply asking on what basis you think what you believe is what God wants you to believe. And on what premise you disagree with anyone who has a different view from you and yet claim he also studied the Bible meticulously with an inspiration from God.

JMAN05:


I never made the above claim here. I do not believe in such claimed inspiration today. I myself am not inspired.

I am telling u to go and make ur own personal research, sincerely searching for the truth. There is truth, and u can find a lead to it from the scriptures. The bible helps u decide which religion is following the footsteps of Christ. If u are disheartened cos u feel that there are contradictory teachings from that same bible, then u won't have a belief cos even Jesus himself stated that false teachers/prophets will arise. But he pointed out that there would be true xtians. I advise u search for them. Matt 7:15-23

Start from reading all the bible, particularly, the "NT".

joseph1013:


You are mixing it up. I'm asking you: What is your own truth and why is your own truth truer than those who also claim to have the truth using the Scriptures yet their own version of truth is very different from yours?

JMAN05:

oga ur words are moving to prove that their are different versions of beliefs. This is not reasonable cos there will always be contradictory understanding cos Jesus himself said that will happen. In fact, this is found in most field of humanity. That makes that thinking puerile and faulty.
There is truth, and this is found in God's word. Go and search for the identity of true Christians. You 'll find it. stop searching for argument to support laziness.

joseph1013:
CHRISTIANITY; ALMOST NICE

Islam came along around 600 years after Christianity. This was an opportunity to build on Christianity and move humanity forward but Islam actually took us backward. Islam is replete with stoning and the barbaric punishments so beloved by Yahweh. Islam institutionalised the notion that women are inferior to men with fewer rights and that gay people should be killed.

Islam borrowed a hell of eternal torture from Christianity and took a bellicose nature from Judaism; encouraging Muslims to conquer neighbouring nations to spread the faith. In fact, it added its own embellishments citing the need to convert or kill non-Muslims and to cut off the heads of enemies.

malvisguy212:
all of these events
happened before the law was given. According to the
Apostle Paul, when there is no law, there can be no
violation of the law or sin. So, since the law against
incest was not given until thousands of years later,
there was no theological problem with Cain marrying his sister.however,God is all knowing so he know what cain did was wrong,like I say earlier God caused to him may have lead to this.

You are free to choose to love God or hate him, it your choice.thank you.

ooman:
What[b] has not been proven cannot be disproved[/b]. God is only an hypothesis of how everything got here. The idea of god is no certainty, this is why faith is the most cherished virtue of the religious. They do not really know if their chosen god exist, they only believe he's somewhere in the sky.

Science has not offered all the answer, but whats certain is that religion has no answer at all, it only stops you from asking the questions by telling you to have faith.

So its a good choice you have made. Life is a quest, enjoy it.

KingEbukasBlog:


God exists

johnydon22:


lolzz ebuka why are you working so hard to establish yourself as a troll...hahahahahahahaha..

KingEbukasBlog:


lmao am bored af john ... if I can get on the nerves of one ... maybe I'l feel good

johnydon22:


hahahahahahaha this guy sef, na boredom do you? i think many yoruba people na akozi ndi be anyi onu na politics section, jee menu ha something naa

KingEbukasBlog:


R1. lolzz ... odikwa i ma igbo ofuma ... which state?

R2. My fellow igbos still want pdp even after 16 years of celebrating mediocrity , corruption and high level indiscipline . Close to 65% of Nigerians are living in poverty and someone is spending billions on re-election . My brother kedu ebe m ga -esi kowa nsogbu pdp nwetara anyi . No wonder we are being mocked

R3. Well , you can raise a confusing topic in Christianity let both of us debate

johnydon22:


abum ony enugu..

Nnaa hapu ihe ahu, am not even interested in politics all of them na the same thing..

Anyway have had my fill of arguments for one day

And you might notice i dont quite open threads that much about religious issues.

I spent 6years in the seminary nothing in Christianity is new to me..

KingEbukasBlog:


God exists

ooman:


Keep telling yourself that. Isn't that what faith is all about? Repetition of illogicality?

tbaba1234:


This is a complete distortion of history.. The first few centuries of Islam marked a remarkable growth in enlighthenment, growth and civilisation.

Like the great adam smith said:

The ruin of the empire of the Romans, and, along with it the subversion of all law and order, which happened a few centuries afterwards, produced the entire neglect of that study of the connecting principles of nature, to which leisure and security can alone give occasion. After the fall of those great conquerors and the civilizers of mankind, the empire of the Caliphs seems to have been the first state under which the world enjoyed that degree of tranquility which the cultivation of the sciences requires. It was under the protection of those generous and magnificent princes, that the ancient philosophy and astronomy of the Greeks were restored and established in the East; that tranquility, which their mild, just and religious government diffused over their vast empire, revived the curiosity of mankind, to inquire into the connecting principles of nature. (adam smith, The Essays of adam smith, London, 1869, p. 353)

He also said:

The victorious arms of the Saracens carried into Spain the learning as well as the gallantry, of the East; and along with it, the tables of Almamon, and the Arabian translations of Ptolemy and Aristotle; and thus Europe received a second time, from Babylon, the rudiments of the sciences of the heavens. The writings of Ptolemy were translated from Arabic into Latin; and the Peripatetic philosophy was studied in Averroes [Ibn Rushd] and Avicenna [Ibn Sina] with as much eagerness and as much submission to its doctrines in the West, as it had been in the East. (adam smith, The Essays of adam smith, London, 1869, p. 353)

Many of the great scientists of the time were also religious scholars and wrote books on religious thought. The scientific method was developed in muslim lands. So I do not see how the world was taken back. The muslim world was the shining beacon when the rest of the world was engulfed in darkness.

tbaba1234:


As regards women, what was their condition before Islam?

In Medieval times, Christian scholars criticized Islam for giving women too much freedom -now they say Islam doesn't give them enough.

The West has made their own culture (no matter what it believes) the criteria of Rationality! Excuse me for leaving flock of sheep, but I'll stick to demanding intellectual justification before I am persuaded.

Do you know that a muslim woman keeps her family name after marriage? at least she is not compelled to change it...

(Do you complain about favoritism here?)

Do you also know that whatever she earns as salary belongs to her ALONE? She does not have any obligation to share her wages with anyone?

Did you know that inheritance rights that western women only came in force a century ago and muslimwomen had this for over 1400 years?

Do you know that Islamic history is littered with thousands of female scholars when some priests were arguing about whether a woman has a soul?
Or that the muslim woman could choose who to marry, divorce and make marriage proposal 1400 years ago?

"At a time when feudal Europe was riddled with hierarchy, Islam was presented as an anarchic religion that gave too much respect and freedom to menials, such as slaves and women" Karenarmstrong -Historian

"the Muslims were horrified to see the way Western Christians treated their women in the Crusader states, and Christian scholars denounced Islam for giving too much power to menials like slaves and women" Karen armstrong

Again, as regards convert or kill, statements like that come from people whose only concept of Islam is the BH version. Anyone who has read a history book will tell you that Islam was the most tolerant of all, particularly in the middle ages.

According to christian orientalist, T. W. Arnold:

"...of any organized attempt to force the acceptance of Islam on the non-muslim population, or of any systematic persecution intended to stamp out the christian religion, we hear nothing. Had the caliphs chosen to adopt either course of action, they might have swept away Christianity as easily as Ferdinand and Isabella drove Islam out of Spain, or Louis XIV made Protestantism penal in France, or the Jews were kept out of England for 350 years. "The Eastern Churches in Asia were entirely cut off from communion with the rest of Christiandom throughout which no one would have been found to lift a finger on their behalf, as heretical communions. So that the very survival of these Churches to the present day is a strong proof of the generally tolerant attitude of Mohammedan [sic] governments towards them (Arnold, Sir Thomas W., The Preaching of Islam, a History of the Propagation of the muslim Faith, Westminister A. Constable & Co., London, 1896, p. 80.)

tbaba1234:
There was a mention of eternal damnation, Hell.

So Is Hell Just?

I will give you a detailed answer here, fortunately for you, i wrote this for someone who asked me outside Nairaland.

Now the Justice of Hell :
Is Hell just? Allah declares in the Quran that he will not be unjust...

i. The human must be aware of the gravity of his action to some extent.

Allah says in the Quran:

“… And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning).” [al-Israa’ 17:15]

‘… Every time a group is cast therein [into Hell], its keeper will ask, “Did no warner come to you?” They will say, “Yes indeed; a warner did come to us, but we belied him and said: ‘Allaah never sent down anything (of revelation), you are only in great error.’”’

A person who has never heard of Islam or the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and who has never heard the message in its correct and true form, will not be punished by Allaah if he dies in a state of disbelief. If it were asked what his fate will be, the answer will be that Allaah will test him on the Day of Resurrection.

Everyone who hears the message of Islam in a sound and correct form (and rejects it), will have evidence aginst him. Whoever dies without having heard the message, or having heard it in a distorted form, then his case is in the hands of Allaah. Allaah knows best about His creation, and He will never treat anyone unfairly.

joseph1013:
[b]Like you, many well-read muslims are aware that in the golden age of Islam, Muslim societies led the world in science, philosophy, culture and prosperity. But right now, many in the Muslim world perceive that their economic circumstances lag behind that of the "West". Since the early good times, Muslim empires have been defeated, Muslim countries invaded and colonized, and humiliation has been suffered at he hands of the Christian West. Since the age of imperialism, independence has been gained, but many Muslim countries still fall into the category of "less developed country". Those that are not in this category generally owe their status to their fortunate possession of natural resources, oil in particular. Many Muslims regard their relative poverty as something that in part at least, has been imposed upon them by the West. They see the distribution of wealth in the world as unjust.

Be that as it may, could we say that those earlier 'wonders' happened because or inspite of islam. If they happened because of Islam, why were they not sustained.

I dare say that Islamic practices are the hinderances to development as I will explain shortly.

In Islam, women are inferior to men, Quran (4:34). No alternative quotations or excuses can prove otherwise. Recent figures from the International Labor Organization, published by the World Bank, indicate that in the Middle East and North Africa, women comprise 28% of the total labor force whereas the world average is 40%. As a group, these countries have the lowest female labor force participation rate in the world. One of the lowest figures is Saudi Arabia with 16%. As distance from the Arabian Peninsula increases, so does the proportion of women in the labor force. In Pakistan the figure is 28.6 percent, whereas in Bangladesh and Indonesia the figures are close to world average. This is a reflection of cultural values regarding women in Muslim countries, values inseparable from religious values. It is also associated with higher birth rate in these countries. This religiously prescribed role for women in society has profound economic consequences.

The limitation on the labor force participation of women reduces potential production and income. The role of women in Islamic society, with its focus on domestic responsibilities, may lead to a high birth rate and population growth rate, a correspondingly lower per-capita income growth rate, further contributing to relative poverty. The role prescribed for women in Islam as outlined in the Quran conforms with Arabic customs in the 7th century. It does not conform to modern standards of equality and objections to sexism. Discrimination against women also contravenes the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and other international agreements. It also contravenes modern standards of morality.

There are many other practices and teachings of Islam that inhibit economic development. The nature of Islamic education may not be helpful in developing open minded citizens fully equipped to fulfill their ambitions and potential. The time devoted to daily religious observances and annual festivals such as Ramadan may detract from time available for economically productive activities to a greater extent compared with other religions. The religion contributes to an attitude of fatalism and complacency. Even in countries with oil wealth, there has been a conspicuous failure to effectively use revenues for the purpose of industrial development.

The constraints and costs imposed on financial institutions by the nominal prohibition on interest payments may preclude a free market in financial capital, causing inefficiency, moral hazard in banking, and limiting the funds available for investment. The prohibition on interests serves no beneficial purpose. Apart from it being banned by the Quran, there is no reason in modern times for the charging of interest to be considered immoral. In ancient times unscrupulous tax collectors may have forced people to pay exorbitant and unreasonable interest on unpaid taxes. Today, there is no compulsion, but rather competition between lenders to offer attractive rates. Those that borrow money receive a service and those that lend it provide one. Elaborate schemes to circumvent such transactions because of their supposed immorality or due to their prohibition in Islam serve no purpose except to increase costs and increase inefficiency.

So the foregoing goes to show that when Islamic principles are adhered to strictly, it leads to improvishments rather than nourishment for its citizens.

It is apparent from the current situation that the Christian countries in general, and over some time, have been more successful at achieving this task and the Muslim countries less so. Going further, countries where religion adherence is in decline have shown to be even more livable to the citizens of the world.[/b]

joseph1013:
[b]

[s]The simple question is: Does Islam teach that a woman is worth less than a man?

Absolutely. The only debatable point that should ever be is to what degree.

Let's check out the following from The Qur'an:

Qur'an (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" (see also verse 4:176). In Islam, sexism is mathematically established.

Qur'an (2:282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women." Muslim apologists offer creative explanations to explain why Allah felt that a man's testimony in court should be valued twice as highly as a woman's, but studies consistently show that women are actually less likely to tell lies than men, meaning that they would make more reliable witnesses.

Qur'an (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them [women]"

Qur'an (5:6) - "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it" Men are to rub dirt on their hands if there is no water to purify them following casual contact with a woman (such as shaking hands).

Qur'an (24:31) - Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye. (To be fair, men are told to do the same thing in the prior verse).

Qur'an (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." A man has dominion over his wives' bodies as he does his land. This verse is overtly sexual. There is some dispute as to whether it is referring to the practice of anal intercourse, which it has been used historically to justify. If this is what Muhammad meant, however, then it would appear to contradict what he said in Muslim (8:3365).

Qur'an (4:3) - (Wife-to-husband ratio) "Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four" Inequality by numbers.

Qur'an (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." Angels are sublime beings, and would therefore be male.

Qur'an (4:24) and Qur'an (33:50) - A man is permitted to take women as sex slaves outside of marriage. Note that the verse distinguishes wives from captives (those whom they right hand possesses).


Let's look at the following from the Hadith:

Bukhari (6:301) - "[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'"

Bukhari (6:301) - continued - "[Muhammad said] 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion.'" Allah has made women deficient in the practice of their religion as well, by giving them menstrual cycles.

Bukhari (2:29) - Women comprise the majority of Hell's occupants. This is important because the only women in heaven ever mentioned by Muhammad are the virgins who serve the sexual desires of men. (A weak Hadith, Kanz al-`ummal, 22:10, even suggests that 99% of women go to Hell).

Bukhari (62:81) - "The Prophet said: "'The stipulations most entitled to be abided by are those with which you are given the right to enjoy the (women's) private parts (i.e. the stipulations of the marriage contract).'" In other words, the most important thing a woman brings to marriage is between her legs.

Bukhari (62:58) - A woman presents herself in marriage to Muhammad, but he does not find her attractive, so he "donates" her on the spot to another man.

Muslim (4:1039) - "A'isha said [to Muhammad]: 'You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses'" These are the words of Muhammad's favorite wife, complaining of the role assigned to women under Islam.

Abu Dawud (2:704) - "...the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, an ass, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone's throw."

Abu Dawud (2155) - Women are compared to slaves and camels with regard to the "evil" in them.

Ishaq 593 - "As for Ali, he said, 'Women are plentiful, and you can easily change one for another.'" Ali was raised as a son by Muhammad. He was also the 4th caliph. This comment was made in Muhammad's presence without a word of rebuke from him.

Ishaq 593 - "From the captives of Hunayn, Allah's Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another." - Even in this world, Muhammad treated women like party favors, handing out slave girls to his cronies for sex.

Ibn Ishaq (693) - "Then the apostle sent Sa-d b. Zayd al-Ansari, brother of Abdu'l-Ashal with some of the captive women of Banu Qurayza to Najd and he sold them for horses and weapons." Muhammad traded captured women for horses.

Al-Tirmidhi 3272 - "When Allah's Messenger was asked which woman was best he replied, 'The one who pleases (her husband) when he looks at her, obeys him when he gives a command, and does not go against his wishes regarding her person or property by doing anything of which he disapproves'."

Tabari VIII:117 - The fate of more captured farm wives, whom the Muslims distributed amongst themselves as sex slaves: "Dihyah had asked the Messenger for Safiyah when the Prophet chose her for himself... the Apostle traded for Safiyah by giving Dihyah her two cousins. The women of Khaybar were distributed among the Muslims."

Tabari IX:137 - "Allah granted Rayhana of the Qurayza to Muhammad as booty."

Ishaq 969 - "Men were to lay injunctions on women lightly, for they were prisoners of men and had no control over their persons." - This same text also justifies beating women for flirting.

Tabari Vol 9, Number 1754 - "Treat women well, for they are [like] domestic animals with you and do not possess anything for themselves." From Muhammad's 'Farewell Sermon

The attempt to paint Islam as a pioneering force in women's rights is a recent one, corresponding with the efforts of Muslim apologists (not otherwise known for their feminist concerns) and some Western academics prone to interpreting history according to pre-formed conclusions. In truth, the Islamic religious community has never exhibited an interest in expanding opportunities for women beyond the family role.

The fourth Caliph, who was Muhammad's son-in-law and cousin, said just a few years after the prophet's death that "The entire woman is an evil. And what is worse is that it is a necessary evil."

One of the world's most respected Quran commentaries explains that, "Women are like cows, horses, and camels, for all are ridden." (Tafsir al-Qurtubi)

The revered Islamic scholar, al-Ghazali, who has been called 'the greatest Muslim after Muhammad,' writes that the role of a Muslim woman is to "stay at home and get on with her sewing. She should not go out often, she must not be well-informed, nor must she be communicative with her neighbors and only visit them when absolutely necessary; she should take care of her husband... and seek to satisfy him in everything... Her sole worry should be her virtue... She should be clean and ready to satisfy her husband's sexual needs at any moment." [as quoted from Ibn Warraq]

Muhammad captured women in war and treated them as a tradable commodity. The immutable, ever-relevant Qur'an explicitly permits women to be kept as sex slaves. These are hardly things in which Muslims can take pride.

There really is no question about the position of Islam regarding women. Just take a look at the practices in Saudi Arabia.[/b][/s]

tbaba1234:


This is a load of rubbish... Pick up a Quran and read.., There are many misinterpretations and weak narrations..., Copying and pasting does not put you in good light.

Stop copying from anti-Islamic sites who have only one agenda, to interpret islam as they want it to be.

joseph1013:


Ad hominems.

Are these verses not in the Quran and the Hadith? You simply cant dismiss these verses by a wave of hand. I have the English version of the Quran on my phone and I see no contradictions with what I have here.

I mean, are there people who because of these verses oppress women? I really dont get your point.

tbaba1234:


They do not oppress women, far from it. That is why understanding is a beautiful thing. For instance, men inherit more than women but what are the other conditions in Islam? Does islam not put all of the responsibility of catering for a home in the man's hands and that includes providing for his wife. A muslim women spends her money at her discretion,. In light of this, is it not fair that the man inherits more.

Islam implemented this more than a millenium ago. Western women just got the right to inheritance like a century ago.

It is about fairness and equality in some cases is not fair.


Also, there is a mention of two witnesses to one in business transactions. If you understand the context of revelation, you would know that not many women were involved in business so few were familiar with business parlance. Having two female witnesses mean they can help each other out. A lady with an MbA today, would not need to do that. Again another situaton where understanding context is important.


Also, you quoted a great deal of fabricated and unverifiable hadiths.

In Islam, narrations have strengths, but anti Islamic websites just quote them all..

Also, there is a mention of two witnesses to one in business transactions. If you understand the context of revelation, you would know that not many women were involved in business so few were familiar with business parlance. Having two female witnesses mean they can help each other out. A lady with an MbA today, would not need to do that. Again another situaton where understanding context is important.

Also, you quoted a great deal of fabricated and unverifiable hadiths.

In Islam, narrations have strengths, but anti Islamic websites just quote them all..

joseph1013:
Like you, many well-read muslims are aware that in the golden age of Islam, Muslim societies led the world in science, philosophy, culture and prosperity. But right now, many in the Muslim world perceive that their economic circumstances lag behind that of the "West". Since the early good times, Muslim empires have been defeated, Muslim countries invaded and colonized, and humiliation has been suffered at he hands of the Christian West. Since the age of imperialism, independence has been gained, but many Muslim countries still fall into the category of "less developed country". Those that are not in this category generally owe their status to their fortunate possession of natural resources, oil in particular. Many Muslims regard their relative poverty as something that in part at least, has been imposed upon them by the West. They see the distribution of wealth in the world as unjust.

Be that as it may, could we say that those earlier 'wonders' happened because or inspite of islam. If they happened because of Islam, why were they not sustained.
[/b]