Tess1, I will log out in a short while. There are many things that have been said these few days I will find time to address about tomorrow afternoon, hopefully.

I just they read but e dey pain me say I no dey get time respond. This thread dey distract sha. The only way to kill this demon is not to read.

Goodnight.

elampiro:


I will go look for it tomorrow. But SAF above said BEHIND THE STRIKER. That is the hole.

Secondly, why did Rooney begged to be played as a striker just before 2009/10 season kicked off?

It is the formation that will determine whether someone is in the hole or not. There is nothing like "Hole" in 442 flat formation.

That was because he was being moved about in the forward position when Tevez and Ronaldo were still around.

tess1:


This is a Farce. It doesn't say anything.

If Thiery Henry had had the same playing time as Rooney, he would've scored more assists than Rooney. What kind of logic is this?

Why did Drogba not even measure up?

elampiro:


There is no much difference between a support striker and a number 10. Association Football made this clear. Some look at the distance they play from each other. Rooney is usually very far from the man ufront. Then SAF said BEHIND THE STRIKER. Saf surely knows the difference. Rooney also said BEHIND THE STRIKER. Note: They didnt say co-strikers.

Behind the striker is the hole.

If someone is playing in the "Hole", he must be an attacking midfielder and that is usually a number 10. There is no room for a number 10 in 442 formation which was the most used system by SAF during his reign.

This has also been confirmed by the periods covered by whoscored.

elampiro:


If you play behind a striker you are in the 'hole'. An AM.

In 4-4-2 the two strikers are on same line or virtually on same line always.

so who was the AM between yorke & cole? who was the AM between shearer & sutton? who was the AM between shevchenko & rebrov?

tess1:

It is the formation that will determine whether someone is in the hole or not. There is nothing like "Hole" in 442 flat formation.
That was because he was being moved about in the forward position when Tevez and Ronaldo were still around.

elampiro sees hole in 4-4-2.
i think this is the height of his opata yarns. which hole?

This place never seize of arguement. You all are FO.OLS. Get over yourself and discuss more pressing issues.

elampiro:


Why did Drogba not even measure up?

Drogba didn't measure up because he is an out and out striker and Chelsea rarely adopt a 442 flat system. He doesn't share the burden of scoring with any other striker in the system they play.

tess1:


Drogba didn't measure up because he is an out and out striker and Chelsea rarely adopt a 442 flat system. He doesn't share the burden of scoring with any other striker in the system they play.

chelsea played 4-3-3 or at best 4-2-3-1 when they signed essien in 05/06. drogba always functioned as a lone striker. the formation changed slightly when they signed shevchenko in 06/07 to 4-1-2-1-2(diamond 4-4-2) but mourinho quickly binned sheva and went back to his 4-2-3-1.

in all this time, SAF was still stuck to his 4-4-2. carlos queiroz convinced fergie to dump the formation in europe & be more conservative in his approach. even then, against the smaller sides in the EPL, 4-4-2 was our default formation.

coogar:


so who was the AM between yorke & cole? who was the AM between shearer & sutton? who was the AM between shevchenko & rebrov?



elampiro sees hole in 4-4-2.
i think this is the height of his opata yarns. which hole?

LOL. This is why i never bothered replying him when he cooked up that dumb formation for me. That dude's weed is on a higher level. Imagine comparing Drogba that has always been a lone striker with Rooney that plays SS in SAF's 4-4-2 formation. Just ignore him abeg, this issue is getting stale.

coogar:


chelsea played 4-3-3 or at best 4-2-3-1 when they signed essien in 05/06. drogba always functioned as a lone striker. the formation changed slightly when they signed shevchenko in 06/07 to 4-1-2-1-2(diamond 4-4-2) but mourinho quickly binned sheva and went back to his 4-2-3-1.

in all this time, SAF was still stuck to his 4-4-2. carlos queiroz convinced fergie to dump the formation in europe & be more conservative in his approach. even then, against the smaller sides in the EPL, 4-4-2 was our default formation.

Exactly!

tess1:


It is the formation that will determine whether someone is in the hole or not. There is nothing like "Hole" in 442 flat formation.

That was because he was being moved about in the forward position when Tevez and Ronaldo were still around.

This is the most illogical post I have read this year.

1. There is no behind the striker in a 4-4-2. They play side by side. United played 4-4-1-1 and 4-5-1. Then 4-3-3 in difficult away games.

2. SAF said the way Ashley Young was deployed at Villa. Young played in the hole at Villa in a 4-2-3-1 and 4-5-1.

3. The space behind the striker is the hole.

Let's not also forget that was the reason he wanted to leave Man Utd at the end of 2012/13 season.

Berbatov was bought as a striker in 2008. After Ronaldo and Tevez left in 2009, he was being paired with Rooney upfront and we had no problem with Rooney's position in the team other than that he said Man Utd weren't ambitious enough for him. So he said that he wanted to leave Utd.

SAF bought RVP in 2012. Rooney was immediately relegated to the midfield to play as our number 10 because SAF had adopted 4 2 3 1 system in the league. This placed RVP as our lone striker in the system. In that season, Rooney rarely played in the striking positions. This sparked off a rift between him and SAF where he said he won't play in the midfield.

Question now is that if he has been playing in the midfield as a number 10 all through his career as a Man Utd player, why then is it that time that he decided to reject such position?

Rooney's account is that, after nearly a decade at the club, he felt he had done enough to warrant a place in "my position", namely as centre-forward, and was fed up of being told to help out in midfield. "Everyone at the club knew where I wanted to play and I think that's why I was disappointed. I got told to play in midfield and I didn't want to. I just think there had to come a point when, for my own career, I had to be a bit selfish really."

This goes back to last spring, not long after he had been left out of United's starting XI to face Real Madrid in the second leg of their Champions League quarter-final. "I actually felt when I played in midfield I did OK, but I didn't want to play there. I've had no problem in the past playing out of position. But I felt I deserved the right to play in my position and that wasn't happening.

"I think, naturally, I was a bit disappointed and maybe that affected some of the games I played. I know myself that last year wasn't my best season but there were times when I was playing in different positions. I didn't feel I got a consistent run of games up front. Sometimes when you're not playing in one position all the time it's difficult to adapt."

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/09/wayne-rooney-reasons-leave-manchester-united

That's from a player whom elampiro said has played as a number 10/midfielder all through his Man Utd career.

All we're asking for is credible representation in elite Europe, nothing else.

Pls tell, how do you guys intend to deliver that with a wasteman like Dante?

Valencia Smalling Dante Rojo?

I thought LVG is a football manager, when did he delve into construction of time bombs?

tess1:


Drogba didn't measure up because he is an out and out striker and Chelsea rarely adopt a 442 flat system. He doesn't share the burden of scoring with any other striker in the system they play.

Now we are getting somewhere. Ayagayagayagyo hey Ayagayagayagayo.

You guys had earlier said support striker. Pls read below. The coaches are not novice. When a player is playing behind a striker, his goal scoring duty is reduced for other functions.



..............................
Association football.

Second striker
The second striker (withdrawn striker or support striker) (historically called inside-left and inside-right, or inside forward) has a long history in the game, but the terminology to describe them has varied over the years. Originally such players were termed inside forwards. More recently, the preferred terms have been withdrawn striker, second striker, deep-lying forward, or support striker, and are often referred to as playing "in the hole" (i.e. the space between the midfield and the defence of the opposing team). Second strikers tend not to be as tall or as physically imposing as a centre forward.[52] They are required to be more "nippy", quick, mobile, and skillful, helping to create goals and scoring opportunities for centre forwards, utilising spaces created in the opposition's defence to provide passes to the strikers, picking up loose balls around the area, or attempting to dribble with the ball and score themselves.[52]

The position was initially developed by the famous Hungary national team of the late 1940s and mid-1950s led by Ferenc Puskás. Later, it was popularised in Italian football as the trequartista ("three-quarters" or fantasista, the advanced playmaker who plays neither in midfield nor as a forward, but effectively pulls the strings for his team's attack, and serves as an assist provider.[53] Many players in this position can play in a free role, as an attacking midfielder or sometimes on the wing. The position has also been known as the number 10 role, as many players who played in this position wore the number 10 jersey.

elampiro:


This is the most illogical post I have read this year.

1. There is no behind the striker in a 4-4-2. They play side by side. United played 4-4-1-1 and 4-5-1. Then 4-3-3 in difficult away games.

2. SAF said the way Ashley Young was deployed at Villa. Young played in the hole at Villa in a 4-2-3-1 and 4-5-1.

3. The space behind the striker is the hole.

You are the only one being illogical. How can you say there is a number 10 position in 442 flat formation? Do you even know formations at all? I don't even need SAF to tell me that there is no "hole" in 442.

These other formations you listed, how often did SAF use them? 442 flat formation was the most used formation by SAF during his era.

elampiro:


This is the most illogical post I have read this year.

1. There is no behind the striker in a 4-4-2. They play side by side. United played 4-4-1-1 and 4-5-1. Then 4-3-3 in difficult away games.

2. SAF said the way Ashley Young was deployed at Villa. Young played in the hole at Villa in a 4-2-3-1 and 4-5-1.

3. The space behind the striker is the hole.

Comedy Central.

RM CM CM LM

FW FW

Which space exactly?

elampiro:


Now we are getting somewhere. Ayagayagayagyo hey Ayagayagayagayo.

You guys had earlier said support striker. Pls read below. The coaches are not novice. When a player is playing behind a striker, his goal scoring duty is reduced for other functions.



..............................
Association football.

Second striker
The second striker (withdrawn striker or support striker) (historically called inside-left and inside-right, or inside forward) has a long history in the game, but the terminology to describe them has varied over the years. Originally such players were termed inside forwards. More recently, the preferred terms have been withdrawn striker, second striker, deep-lying forward, or support striker, and are often referred to as playing "in the hole" (i.e. the space between the midfield and the defence of the opposing team). Second strikers tend not to be as tall or as physically imposing as a centre forward.[52] They are required to be more "nippy", quick, mobile, and skillful, helping to create goals and scoring opportunities for centre forwards, utilising spaces created in the opposition's defence to provide passes to the strikers, picking up loose balls around the area, or attempting to dribble with the ball and score themselves.[52]

The position was initially developed by the famous Hungary national team of the late 1940s and mid-1950s led by Ferenc Puskás. Later, it was popularised in Italian football as the trequartista ("three-quarters" or fantasista, the advanced playmaker who plays neither in midfield nor as a forward, but effectively pulls the strings for his team's attack, and serves as an assist provider.[53] Many players in this position can play in a free role, as an attacking midfielder or sometimes on the wing. The position has also been known as the number 10 role, as many players who played in this position wore the number 10 jersey.

I have said it that you don't know football formations or you don't understand it. The one they are talking about here is not flat 4 4 2 but a variation of it which is 4 4 1 1.

tess1:
Let's not also forget that was the reason he wanted to leave Man Utd at the end of 2012/13 season.

Berbatov was bought as a striker in 2008. After Ronaldo and Tevez left in 2009, he was being paired with Rooney upfront and we had no problem with Rooney's position in the team other than that he said Man Utd weren't ambitious enough for him. So he said that he wanted to leave Utd.

SAF bought RVP in 2012. Rooney was immediately relegated to the midfield to play as our number 10 because SAF had adopted 4 2 3 1 system in the league. This placed RVP as our lone striker in the system. In that season, Rooney rarely played in the striking positions. This sparked off a rift between him and SAF where he said he won't play in the midfield.

Question now is that if he has been playing in the midfield as a number 10 all through his career as a Man Utd player, why then is it that time that he decided to reject such position?



http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/09/wayne-rooney-reasons-leave-manchester-united

That's from a player whom elampiro said has played as a number 10/midfielder all through his Man Utd career.

Here they were talking about Rooney playing in central midfield, not in the hole.

tess1:


I have said it that you don't know football formations or you don't understand it. The one they are talking about here is not flat 4 4 2 but a variation of it which is 4 4 1 1.

Whenever one player is behind the striker or even main striker, that player is in the hole. You dont know formation.

tess1:


You are the only one being illogical. How can you say there is a number 10 position in 442 flat formation? Do you even know formations at all? I don't even need SAF to tell me that there is no "hole" in 442.

These other formations you listed, how often did SAF use them? 442 flat formation was the most used formation by SAF during his era.

I am telling you once there is a player behind the striker. The formation is not 4-4-2.

SAF played Rooney in hole in 4-4-1-1, 4-2-3-1 and 4-5-1.



Even Association football has it that there can be a hole in 4-4-2 if the second striker is involved in build up play and defensive duty.

elampiro:


Here they were talking about Rooney playing in central midfield, not in the hole.

Did you read him mentioned Center there?

The issue was being played in the midfield rather than central forward. You yourself said he has been playing as an attacking midfielder which is a midfield position. Is that not different from center forward role?

sinizia:


LOL. This is why i never bothered replying him when he cooked up that dumb formation for me. That dude's weed is on a higher level. Imagine comparing Drogba that has always been a lone striker with Rooney that plays SS in SAF's 4-4-2 formation. Just ignore him abeg, this issue is getting stale.

1. That formation teaches you a lot. You know not positioning.

2. So you guys have accepted Rooney did not play upfront as other strikers like Drogba?

3. If Iam not responding, you guys should not take it as I have given up. It means I am busy and I will reply later. I am postponing most of my comments and replies to tomorrow.

tess1:


Did you read him mentioned Center there?

The issue was being played in the midfield rather than central forward. You yourself said he has been playing as an attacking midfielder which is a midfield position. Is that not different from center forward role?

It's very clear it's centre midfield. BRING THE DATE OF THAT INTERVIEW LETS SEE WHERE ROONEY WAS PLAYING.

I WILL BRING MANY ARTICLES AT DAWN. i AM BUSY TONIGHT. I WILL SOON GO TO BED.

elampiro:


I am telling you once there is a player behind the striker. The formation is not 4-4-2.

SAF played Rooney in hole in 4-4-1-1, 4-2-3-1 and 4-5-1.



Even Association football has it that there can be a hole in 4-4-2 if the second striker is involved in build up play and defensive duty.

Once a striker drops behind, it is no longer 4 4 2 flat, it has become 4 4 1 1.

I am not disputing the fact that SAF played that system sometimes. He only played such system once in a while.

Maybe you should tell me the number of times SAF played such system in a season.

My own contention is that SAF played mainly 4 4 2 flat where there is no room for a number 10.

AirborneLacer:


Comedy Central.

RM CM CM LM

FW FW

Which space exactly?

4-4-1-1

Rooney never on same line with Nistelrooy, Saha, Tevez, Chicha.

tess1:


Once a striker drops behind, it is no longer 4 4 2 flat, it has become 4 4 1 1.

I am not disputing the fact that SAF played that system sometimes. He only played such system once in a while.

Maybe you should tell me the number of times SAF played such system in a season.

My own contention is that SAF played mainly 4 4 2 flat where there is no room for a number 10.

No SAF played 4-4-1-1. Once a striker dropped behind. SAF said Rooney played behind a striker. So what are you still arguing?

Rooney never played on same line with others.

elampiro:



It's very clear it's centre midfield. BRING THE DATE OF THAT INTERVIEW LETS SEE WHERE ROONEY WAS PLAYING.

I posted the link. He's talking about how SAF used him mostly behind RVP during that season because that's where he featured mostly during that season.

I don't need any article to confirm that to me. Whoscored has already confirmed what i know.

elampiro:


No SAF played 4-4-1-1. Once a striker dropped behind. SAF said Rooney played behind a striker. So what are you still arguing?

Rooney never played on same line with others.

Are you sure about this? So, you are telling me that SAF played mainly 4 4 1 1 system throughout his era.

This is very clear. Once a player is behind a striker, he is in the hole in 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-3-1 or 4-5-1.

Once he dropped behind. .... And SAF said he deployed Rooney behind the striker. Rooney said he always played behind the striker.










Good night. More at dawn.

tess1:


Are you sure about this? So, you are telling me that SAF played mainly 4 4 1 1 system throughout his era.

Yes, I even saw the article that said SAF adapted his 4-4-2 formation in the 1990s to 4-4-1-1 and 4-3-3 on Jose Mourinho's arrival to the EPL..


I beg make I sleep. I don tire finish. This argument get demon attached.

ONE DAY! Just one day offline and dis thread has gone forward by four pages. Una don mad finish