joseph1013:
[b]A LONG (INCOHERENT?) RANT...

This post is inspired by a video I watched just now about Pastor Chris Oyakhilome waving his hands and causing people to fall down in droves.

Yesterday, a pharmacist friend of mine was lying down on his sitting room couch totally exhausted from the day's work when a call came in from the hospital. He had just left the same hospital around 4pm and by 5.30pm a call came in again. He was already asleep in his work clothes on the couch at home and less than 2 hours later he was needed at the hospital again.

To tell you the truth he was annoyed by that call. He didn't want to go. But then he remembered that he is in a remote village where medical services are very scarce and this particular hospital has, right now, just 1 doctor and 2 pharmacists.

So he went back to the hospital and met a patient's relative and the issue was that their relative has died and they needed to sort out everything before moving the body out of the hospital. He didn't even know what to feel by that information. He offered a few half-hearted words of comfort and set about doing what he came for...

What is the point of this anecdote?

The point is, these guys there (doctors, nurses, pharmacists etc) are the real miracle workers. They are the people who ACTUALLY help humanity. They don't always succeed. Sometimes people die. Sometimes they make mistakes. Sometimes they are not as empathetic as they should. But they are humans. They don't have super powers. They could do with some superpowers right now because there are cases you see and you just know...
-----------------------------------------
Look around you, there are real life problems that we need super powers for. This power of the Holy Ghost Pastor Chris was wasting on his church members (to push them down with some wave of hand) could be channelled into defeating Boko Haram. I'm not joking. This is not a sarcastic statement. The Nigerian Government has tried. We gave money to Dasuki to fight them and he shared it among his friends. I'm pretty sure this Power of the Holy Ghost cannot be embezzled like this.

Take Pastor Chris and a few Soldiers to the BH enclave. Have him hit them with this Air Bending ability and let the soldiers capture them as they are incapacitated. I don't want to hear anybody talk about "Testing the Lord your god." Elijah challenged the 450 prophets of Baal into a pissing contest to TEST the power of their respective gods. I can't count how many times this has been a topic for preaching in church. Moses did a magic contest with Pharaoh and his men. So spare me that buls**t! Jesus Christ promised that his followers would do more than that. Read John 14:12 abeg!

This would not even be a testing. This would be a humanitarian service to the Nation. It is time these big Pastors solve ACTUAL problems for a change.

The truth is, I don't believe that video is real but I realise that in the real sense of it, it doesn't matter what I believe. Right now what I want is for these men with superpowers to solve problems. Help us all. I'm sure God is interested in ending the scourge of Boko Haram. A little Air Bending will help immensely.

When I write posts criticising religion, it is not because I enjoy doing it. But do it I must because not only is religion useless and outdated, it actively hinders the progress of humanity today. When you have adults indulging in this sort of magical thinking, how then are we supposed to progress in the real sense of it? The other time, someone came here asking me to speak with discretion. He has totally missed the reasons I criticize religion. It is painful to watch people who would ordinarily have used their thinking to benefit humanity surrender it because they believe some things should never be questioned. Go to Google, today they dedicate their Google Doodle to John Logie Baird, who 90 years ago today, he invented the mechanical television. He gave the world the gift of the first public demonstration of live television. That was in 1926, 90 years ago! In 2015, in Nigeria, we still cannot manufacture a Television. Isn't that a shame? Our best brains are locked up in Churches asking for God to bless and favour them. And then make their enemies 'fall and die'. SMH

Last I heard, there are less than 20,000 registered Pharmacists in the country today. A country of 170 Million citizens! Take a moment to think about this. I'm sure the story is similar with Doctors. These numbers are simply inadequate to deal with health challenges of this country.

Seriously, we could do with some magical powers here.

In the video I watched, some of the comments on it were about some people who previously doubted the reality of that falling by Pastor Chris' Air bending ability until it happened to them and subsequently their lives changed. This is supposed to tell us that they were once sceptics, LOL.

My friends, that isn't scepticism. Scepticism is not "I used to doubt magic until a magician performed in my presence."

Scepticism is not "I used to doubt the power of Odeshi until I saw a man being shot but the bullets bounced!"

Scepticism is realising that even YOU, the sceptic can be fooled. You are fallible. You are emotional. You have bias. You are ignorant of some things and therefore your scepticism is NOT based on personal experiences but on objective assessment of claims in CONTROLLED conditions.

Are you bullet resistant? Let me bring my own gun and shooter.

Can you heal Cancer? Let me be the one to bring the patient and doctor.

Are you an Air Bender? Come and do it in a controlled setting.

Most of all, use your skills to solve ACTUAL problems. Teach our Military men your bullet proof skills. I'm sure they'll all want it.

Please, send all Boko Haram militants to the floor. Of what use is your Air bending skills in a church auditorium? What problem did it solve for humanity?

Oh, after you fell your life changed? Well, since I became an agnostic/atheist/whatever my life has also changed. What does that prove either way? Nothing. "Life Changing" is a vague statement. It is meaningless. It does nothing to prove the truth or otherwise of a claim. I know a man who claim his life changed when he converted from Christianity to Islam. So?

I'm tired sef. I don't know why I took the time took write this. I'm done. I'm going to pretend like I don't care about what you believe. I'm just going to do what I can and hope that within the next 200 years Nigeria can become something resembling a rational country.

Have a nice day.[/b]

CltrAltDelicious:

Nice write-up. We Nigerians are so lazy to the point that thinking actually sounds like moving a mountain. We rather believe in childish wishful thinking waiting for some imaginary sky fairy to come and solve our problems it a pity

henifri:
I have read from page 1 and now in page 32. I have also read all posts by 'Johnydon22'. The both of you have presented very logical arguments, which are vey hard to debunk, and I also must confess that I have gained a lot of insight from your posts.

I have been a christian since birth, indoctrinated from childhood in particular. While growing up, I asked a lot of questions about christianity. I couldn't understand how the concept of an all knowing God and freewill could be mutually in-exclusive, and nobody could really give me a clear explanation or cogent argument.
I have attended a spiritual church since childhood, and the things that happen while worshiping there have made me quite ambivalent about religion. Take for instance, I have witnessed a case were a man was brought to my church, in fact, he is my neighbour at home, and has never been to my place of worship. My church, a spiritual church and one where visions and prophesies are copious, this young man was told about events from his past, problems he is facing and steps on how to solve these problems without him saying a word or giving a hint to the 'seer'. the young man in awe confirmed everything as true, and even later went to ask my mum if the seer was a 'native doctor'. This is just one of the many cases I have witnessed firsthand.

Also, 2 years ago, I witnessed a scenario (I was there live) involving a prophet and members of my students' fellowship. We usually have this annual 'back to school conference' for students, and in this particular event, 2014 to be precise, he (the prophet) was invited as the guest speaker. In the course of the praise and worship session, the prophet told more than 10 people events from their pasts and they all confirmed them to be true. He went as far as identifying people by their names, told them past events and gave them prophesies. Everything was accurate without any error. To the best of my knowledge, I believe no trickery was involved, as about 3 of the people involved are my friends, and they confirmed the 'visions' of the prophet as true.


How are these things possible? How can science explain these things? If science can't, then what are the best possible explanations?

Scepticism is not "I used to doubt magic until a magician performed in my presence."

Scepticism is not "I used to doubt the power of Odeshi until I saw a man being shot but the bullets bounced!"

Scepticism is realising that even YOU, the sceptic can be fooled. You are fallible. You are emotional. You have bias. You are ignorant of some things and therefore your scepticism is NOT based on personal experiences but on objective assessment of claims in CONTROLLED conditions.

Are you bullet resistant? Let me bring my own gun and shooter.

Can you heal Cancer? Let me be the one to bring the patient and doctor.

Are you an Air Bender? Come and do it in a controlled setting.

joseph1013:
[b]WHY YOU BELIEVE

You are a believer; I'm not. Let's take a moment for honest reflection.

You know your god is the god you were raised to believe in. You know other people believe just as strongly in other gods and other religions. What convinces you that you've got it right is that it seems to work. Sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes you feel close to God, you may even sense God talking to you and feel amazing.

You think there must be a god--how else can everything be explained: the universe; life; the laws of nature? So it all makes sense. You see that god explains everything. It's perfect.

But there are other things you know too you don't often think about.

You know that other gods and other religions work too. Believers in these gods think their prayers are answered and feel close to their gods and feel amazing. What you ignore is what this means. Unless you accept that there are a lot of gods, you know deep down that non-existent gods can appear to answer prayers and make you feel amazing. You know this means humans are capable of creating these feelings in their own brains.

Furthermore, if your god can explain the universe, life and everything else, then so could the other gods. And you know, you really DO know, that these unexplained things MAY turn out to have perfectly natural explanations that are just waiting for us to discover, just as we discovered the causes of earthquakes and lightning.

You know humans have worshipped gods for thousands of years--many, many different gods. So you know many gods have been INVENTED by humans. The question you should ask yourself is this; is it possible that ALL gods were invented by humans? You know the answer to this question too. The answer is "yes".

This does not necessarily mean there are no gods. But it does mean the reasons you believe your god is real are not valid reasons. They are excuses for believing.

Does it really make sense to hold strong beliefs when all you have are excuses?[/b]

joseph1013:


[b]Sir, I really cannot comment on the genuineness of the experiences you have told me. I was not there. But I could swear when I was a Christian that the experiences I witnessed (very similar to the ones you have written above) were very real. There are still experiences that I still cannot explain. But that's fine. There are several videos on Youtube about magic that I still cannot explain despite watching them closely dozens of times. Are they real? Definitely not! The magicians say so themselves.

I said in one of my posts:



Marcello Truzzi is credited with originating the oft-used phrase "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." The statement is self-explanatory. If someone makes an extraordinary claim, there better be extraordinary evidence to back it up. If, for example, someone made the claim that an alien race has made contact with earth, we would need sufficient evidence to verify the claim, such as an alien space craft, or an actual alien. The extraordinary claim would need extraordinary evidence.

If, for example, someone made the claim that he can successfully tell us accurately about people's pasts and correctly predict their future, we would need sufficient evidence to verify the claim, such as allowing an investigative journalist follow him on his religious tours. The extraordinary claim would need extraordinary evidence.

So how is it possible for a man to be able to "seemingly" tell alot about the past of other people with great accuracy? Well, let me introduce you to The Barnum Effect. Also called the Forer effect, this is the observation that individuals will give high accuracy ratings to descriptions of their personality that supposedly are tailored specifically for them, but are in fact vague and general enough to apply to a wide range of people. It was named after an American Psychologist called Bertram R. Forer who conducted this psychology test in 1948. I implore you to read more about it.

People trained in the act of fortune telling can use cold reading, warm reading, and hot reading to "accurately" tell you things you have done in the past, and then make you believe that anything they tell you now will happen to you in the future. A good study of these three concept would instantly catapult you to the level of a "prophet".

You want a demonstration, please watch this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6uj1ruTmGQ[/b]

henifri:




Thanks for your prompt feedback. I have watched the video, though I am not fully convinced by it, as most of the revelations of the fortune tellers were quite general.
Nevertheless, I will continue to ask questions.

holamiday:
joseph1013, your experience is very similar to mine. I was raised in a christian home too, just like you. I was the preferred for bible recitations, preaching etc in church. I was burning for christ. In my teenage years, i discovered my mind was automatically asking deep questions. Those questions made me feel like a sinner and i tried to cast them away but they would never go away. The more i ignored those questions, the more they came raging in my heart. I asked pastors and co, but their answers were either useless or created more questions.

I was very hungry for the truth. I knew things just did not add up in this christian faith and even in every other faith. I just knew. I also knew atheism was not the solution, for I can never believe God does not exist.

It wasn't until my 2nd year in school(i studied engineering too) when i came across pholosophies like 'new thought', 'the secret'etc that everything became clear and i burst into freedom. I answered my questions by myself and i got satisfied.

I discovered that God is me and i am God. He exists in me, in you, in nature, in everything. I understood the science behind revelations & answered prayers and i ultimately discovered that all truth is inside me, and it is foolhardy looking for it anywhere else. I finally understood what the bible meant by 'you shall know the truth and it shall set you free'.

joseph1013:
[b]A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT THAT COULD CHANGE YOUR LIFE

If you believe in a god, here is something to think about. Please humour me and do this thought experiment with me.

You will have reasons for your belief but let's imagine something. Let's imagine we examine your reasons; we critique them one-by-one and we find them flawed. One after another they fail, until you have no reasons left to rely on.

What will you do then? Will you cease to believe in your god or will your belief persist? If you will continue to believe, this thought experiment will have revealed something about yourself that you may not have previously known. It will have shown that you do not control your beliefs--rather they control you. Read that last sentence again and absorb it.

Are you happy about that?

You may shake your head and think this is irrelevant because your reasons ARE good. But are you certain? After years of listening to people explain why they believe in their god, I have never encountered a single sound argument. Not one. What are the chances that you are the first person with a valid argument?

I wouldn't bet my life on it if I were you. Especially once you realise your beliefs are in control--not you.[/b]