Nihilist:


Oh please....There is no 'Minor Nuance' between 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 otherwise you would not have been calling for a return to 4-3-3 for ages. You would not have been shouting about the 'Pivot' for ages. You are fool, bufoon, and a hypocrite. I've been going easy on you this afternoon because I was enjoying watching you tie yourself in knots of logic.

Just look at the crap you've come up with today -

Scholes was the defensive half of the Keane/Scholes Duo.
Scholes has always played as a deep lying playmaker.

Now Manutd, Liverpool, and even Man City play a 4-3-3.

All simply to try and paint Iniesta as an AM rather than a CM.

If you had any sense of shame, you would switch off your laptop, find a dark corner in your house, and stand in it facing the wall for the rest of the day.

What a dolt.

raumdeuter:
There is a marked difference between a 4-3-3 and a 4-2-3-1. Which is the man in the hole. The Mesut Ozil.

Ibime:


I'm responsible for what I type, not what you comprehend. Get lost.

I am having a key debate with Raumdeuter on the role of the wide-forwards in the 4-3-3 and why Insigne/Pedro should be classed differently from Anelka and Kuyt.

We have already excluded the effect of 4-2-3-1 by removing Muller, Ozil, DeBruyne and co from this debate and focusing solely on Lampard, Gerrard, Matuidi and Hamsik, plus Toure (on occassion).

So I don't know why a dimwitted punk is bleating nonsense from the sideline about the 4-2-3-1. It is inconsequential to this debate and has been from the start.

raumdeuter:


The question is as clear as day.
You took the pain to list out PSG and Napoli which no one asked but couldnt use that same time to list out the 3 strikers for City and Liverpool
Could it be that you were lying and know you are about to get caught?
So another try: Name the 3 strikers for Liverpool(The team that wears red in Merseyside currently coached by Klopp) and City (the team in Manchester that wears blue and currently coached by pellegrini)
I am taking this pain so you wont regale me with the players from PSG in France and Napoli in Italy

raumdeuter:
Chelsea under 2004- 2010 played mainly 4-3-3 With Duff-Robben and Anelka-Malouda and it usually has a well defined defensive anchor

Post 2011 Chelsea dumped 4-3-3 and went to 4-2-3-1

When Iniesta was at his peak between 08-2014 he was doing double digit assists every season Sometimes as high as 23

How can anyone call a Central midfieder who contributes double digits assists and as many as 23 assists per season as unproductive

The Barcelona front 3 at everytime was more potent than any club and they dont need goals contribution from their midfield, all they need are passes and Possesion recycling

Nihilist:

Dayo is the one that is trying to negotiate a soft landing for you. I won't.

I will continue to show you up to be the load mouthed dimwit that you are.

Ibime:

[s]
I'm a dimwit, yet you continue to put my name in your mouth everyday.

You are obsessed with me nigga.

If you noticed, since this debate, I was speaking with Dadehmola, Afrodoc and Raumdeuter, while you keep jumping into my case in an attempt to "show me up".

Even back to the inception of this, you saw something on SkySports and couldn't wait to run here to make reference to me.

I have told you ninja, I'm not concerned with you, yet you keep bringing me up.

I have a First-Class Maths Degree, a Masters degree and an Accounting qualification that says I'm intelligent. Please allow boys discuss footy jejely without trying "show us up as a dimwit" all the time. We know who the real dimwits are[/s].

diggz:


Ibime ....! Nihilist dey find you o....!

Meanwhile @ Nihilist why you wan compare both players in terms of productivity when dem obviously no dey play same position?

Just asking bruv

Nihilist:


Barry and Scholes are both central midfielders

I no mention anybody name, I just dey report wetin I see for BBC sport

Ibime:


Nihilist dey always find me.

Paul Scholes has scored double the no of goals of Gareth Barry, while Gareth Barry has played a hundred games more than Scholes so Scholes is way more productive than Barry.

Productivity = goals + assists. . . . .except your name is Hiddeniesta.

Ibime:


We are getting somewhere now. We have established that Chelsea was a 4-3-3 team, so was Barca of which Iniesta is the most advanced CM.

Napoli and PSG we have established as 4-3-3 teams.

Liverpool I put forward, was also a 4-3-3 team most of the time, with Torres flanked by (1.) Kuyt and (2.) Maxi/Riera/Babel. In 2009, you could argue Gerrard had more freedom but by and large, 4-3-3.

I posited that Toure performed that role at times also.

So these are our control elements.

The debate lost focus when you did not agree to the inclusion of Gerrard and Toure. . . . and one unintelligent ninja screaming on the sideline derailed the debate, not even knowing what we are trying to establish.

Well lets not dwell too long since the argument has lost focus. I am happy that I have got you agree that Anelka and Pedro are comparable hence no excuse for Iniesta to be unproductive. The new argument you are positing (which is a seismic shift in the debate) is no longer about formation of Chelsea and Barca, but that Iniesta lost form at 29 years of age in 2013/2014.

Really? At an age where his mates are just starting to fire. A midfielders peak is 28-32. Lampard at 31 scored 27 goals and 20 assists (Iniestas age now) in the same formation.

So even if we accept that argument, let's conclude that even the form you put forward from 08-2014 is not comparable to his mates.

Nihilist:


Follow the timeline of events







I really don't care about your degree(s) or your course of study. This is football talk. You quote me first. You insulted me first. And now after fooling yourself, it looks like you're about to have your own nya binghi moment

Dude don't post pics of your graduation gown o.

If you want to talk football then talk football civilly.. If you want to start saying things like 'child' 'Maths' etc, whilst making such an arrant fool of yourself than fans from different clubs are laughing at you, then be my guest.

If you wan mad for market place, I will point you to the dustbin with google maps.

Ibime:



You done finish?

Like I said: "Nihilist dey always find me".

Na Diggz wey alert me say you dey find me.

I discriminate who I discuss footie with so I quickly asked you to put your money where your mouth is to end your matter, whilst I discussed with Dadehmola and afrodoc about events we both witnessed. Ain't got time to discuss with google ninjas who no carry their see wetin we dey yarn.

All this time you dey shout for background. Same with Raumdeuter, you still dey shout for background.

Oya carry go now. In the first place, did you think I don't know that most niggas would disagree with my view on Iniesta? It no concern me jor, I am here to yarn how I feel about the game so "showing me up" means jackshyt.

I advise you to get over your obsession cos I no send you at all. I discriminate who I discuss footie with my gee.

raumdeuter:
You guys should just arrange a room and bunk together this weekend


This Chelsea poor form don turn all their fans into PMSing whores

ollah1:


This member said cr7 is the greatest player to ever wear the white jersey. He said he is the best player that ever played for real Madrid

Do you agree with him?

Cc usbcable
Krasid

Nihilist:
Raumdeter you can't remove set pieces from stats.

Nobody cares if Iniesta or Scholes aren't good enough to take set pieces.

On a different note, I read somewhere that Ozil has created like 300+ clear cut chances since joining Arsenal and only around 30 have been converted.

That's another angle to this whole productivity yarns

Nihilist:


Oh please....There is no 'Minor Nuance' between 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 otherwise you would not have been calling for a return to 4-3-3 for ages. You would not have been shouting about the 'Pivot' for ages. You are fool, bufoon, and a hypocrite. I've been going easy on you this afternoon because I was enjoying watching you tie yourself in knots of logic.

Just look at the crap you've come up with today -

Scholes was the defensive half of the Keane/Scholes Duo.
Scholes has always played as a deep lying playmaker.

Now Manutd, Liverpool, and even Man City play a 4-3-3.

All simply to try and paint Iniesta as an AM rather than a CM.

If you had any sense of shame, you would switch off your laptop, find a dark corner in your house, and stand in it facing the wall for the rest of the day.

What a dolt.

raumdeuter:


Liverpool and City are not 4-3-3 teams. They are 4-2-3-1 teams and the advanced player in the hole is much closer to goal and expected to be a goal threat over a player in the midfield in a 4-3-3

Toure never played the 4-3-3. Citys optimized position would play Toure in the hole behind Aguero since he is too lazy to play in the double pivot. Toure also takes a lot of dead balls

Now what do you mean by productivity? Goals and assists? These goals and assists from Lampard Gerrard and others are mainly artificially boosted by penalty kicks and dead balls which Iniesta doesnt take for his club

PK are usually given to the Team star player or the oldest player in the team(Gerrard) In 2013/14 season for example Gerrard score over 10 PK that season out of his 13 goals so If we take out say 10 out of 13 goals we have 3 goals

Is a 3 goal per season productive? Same goes with those who play Corner kicks and freekicks

2013/14 Iniesta was still giving double digit assist. And which rule says a midfielders peak has to be under 30? Ballack has his peak years under 30, Viera had his peak years under 30, Roy Keane had his peak years under 30, what matters is delivering at your peak

If Messi should retire today would you say he wasnt great because he did play great football beyond age 28?

What were his mates outputs minus dead balls in their peak. Iniesta was averaging double digits assists for 6seasons . In Gerrards entire career despite being a chief dead ball taker and played advanced roles on the field, he only had double digit assists 4 times in his career

So who are these Iniestas mates you want us to compare numbers with?

To strip it better and compare likes with likes can we get all their goals and assists minus dead balls and see where Iniesta ranks

raumdeuter:


Set pieces obscure the main reason for checking stats.

An example is the Gerrard example I gave. He scored 13 goals in a season More than Van persie and Benteke did that season. Looking at the stats on goal scored you would say Gerrard was a better goal scorer than the two without checking the way the goals were scored

Same with Chilavert and Rogerio Ceni who made tonnes of goals from set pieces

At a time Fernando Hierro was Spain top scorer as a central defender because he was good from Set pieces

Yesterday Mark Noble scored 2 goals from penalties

the purpose of goal stats is to know which player is the sharpest in front of goal and in those cases the penalties have misrepresented the facts because its not a usual /regular play

Its like using wealth stats(goals) to measure hardwork(sharpness) and we shouldnt discount people who won the lottery or get inheritance(penalties)

dmcdad:

Na wa to you oooooo. How you go dey ask Krasid wey be Ronaldo fanboy? That one no be Madrid fan na! Na Ronaldo fan him be.

A40:
Lol I been think say Wrestlemania don pass.

Abi na UFC 200 be this?

olabode89:


Lmao!

Correct! You b MMA devoted fan or just a casual fan?

A40:

I dey watch MMA pass boxing these days. Overeem vs Lesnar about 5 years back na him hook me

raumdeuter:
Chelsea under 2004- 2010 played mainly 4-3-3 With Duff-Robben and Anelka-Malouda and it usually has a well defined defensive anchor

Post 2011 Chelsea dumped 4-3-3 and went to 4-2-3-1

When Iniesta was at his peak between 08-2014 he was doing double digit assists every season Sometimes as high as 23

How can anyone call a Central midfieder who contributes double digits assists and as many as 23 assists per season as unproductive

The Barcelona front 3 at everytime was more potent than any club and they dont need goals contribution from their midfield, all they need are passes and Possesion recycling

hensben:
Now I like this. But why not use same logic you display here when discussing hazard and Neymar huh. So you know. Double standard suppose be your name.

raumdeuter:


How does this affect them? Is Hazard making double digit assists per season or scoring double digit goals per season

hensben:
Go read my post you quoted again, I added to it. Comparing hazard to Neymar is senseless because;
- they play in different league
- while Neymar enjoy luxury of quality players around him hazard had few quality and good players, the rest average.
-hazard play as LMf/winger(like Ribery& almost like iniesta) in 4-2-3-1 formation while Neymar play as LWF/striker(like cr7 & Anelka) in 4-3-3 formation.

Chelsea technical director Michael Emenalo says he does not understand the fuss over Tottenham's youth policy.

Emenalo claims only Harry Kane has made an impression at first-team level and says Spurs have bought most of the other youngsters currently challenging for the Premier League title.

He was responding to criticism of Chelsea's academy policy, which comes despite the fact the club have just retained the UEFA Youth League and have won four of the past six FA Youth Cups.

Chelsea play Manchester City in the first leg of this year's final on Friday, and insists young players are given as much of an opportunity at Stamford Bridge as at Spurs.

Emenalo said: "In reality it is just the one key player, Harry Kane. Dele Alli they bought, Eric Dier they bought, Tom Carroll is a fringe player. So with all the hoopla about Tottenham, it's just the one player.

"So we try to remind them it's not just a Chelsea problem. We want them to be patient because [the parents] want it quicker than the boys want it or the boys are ready to take it."

Two players who have stepped up to the Blues first-team this season have been Ruben Loftus-Cheek and Bertrand Traore, while Todd Kane is expected to make the breakthrough next season following a successful loan with NEC Nijmegen.

Emenalo also has high hopes for Andreas Christensen, Tammy Abraham, Jake Clarke-Salter and Fikayo Tomori becoming first-team regulars at Chelsea.

"Christensen will be a superb player," Emenalo said. "I see on a regular basis that Jake Clarke-Salter and Fikayo Tomori are going to be outstanding players.

"They are young and I don't know if they decide to get fat. There's nothing I can do about that. If they continue the way they are, they will make it because they have great talent, there's no doubt about that.

"There is a coordinated effort from everybody to want to make this happen. Not just because it feels good, and it is nice to have a backbone the fans can relate to and support.

"But with the investment we are making and where we think the game is going and the competition that we have, you can't just buy your way out of trouble all the time.

"We have a philosophy in the academy to teach them to play the right way, the way we think a big team should play. And ultimately the only way they can play that gives them a chance to play for our first-team."