4everGod:



Simply because I do not see Christianity being a reflection of any of the points you listed up there I will not engage you on this as its like magnifying the non existent. So for the first time in a long time I will leave this thread to you and muslims to battle it out.

*singing* great is our God, greatly to be praised, greatly to be praised, Father you reign......

Onye dinso nso nso agam aturugi mma mma e mma mma okorobia dimma mma mma eh, Chi onya nji eme onu, mma mma eh ....

Shalom!!!! Wow for some reason I am so full of joy right now...overflowing joy.....

Proffdada:
yet you believe wormholes are portals, right?

Proffdada:
they are rhetorical

cloudgoddess:
I often see the argument posed by theists, and some atheists, that humanity somehow requires religion to keep from imploding on itself, and taking away religion would lead to widespread chaos and eventually doomsday.

I tend to strongly disagree.

This is a list of ways I think humanity could very likely be better off without religion now (specifically the Abrahamic religions and others with similar doctrines), supported by evidence I've come across.

Without religion:
1. Humanity could get along better. Tribalism is the blanket term to describe the innate human tendency to form alliances and groups against one another. More and more research is showing that tribalism can be overcome, and peace amongst people of different groups can be achieved, the more people are able to see a like-ness in one another. A "you are human just like me, I accept you, I feel comfortable around you".

Religion is a direct obstacle to achieving this like-ness, and it shouldn't be hard to imagine why. Religion teaches millions of people, usually via childhood indoctrination (brainwashing), that because the so-called "creator of the entire universe" said so, they are better, more "holy", more valuable, more moral than other groups of people. This is a perfect recipe for unnecessary tribalistic tendencies. And we see this type of religious tribalism unfolding all over the world, often violently.

Don't get me wrong, tribalism can and does exist in many other forms (racism, imperialism, even people with different tastes in music can form alliances based on that). But what sets religion apart is the fact that it rests upon a firm foundation of fear (of hell), and shielded from criticism in a way other forms of tribalism aren't, making it much harder to overcome.

2. Humanity could better understand the world & universe around us. Since the dawn of scientific & empirical thought, religion has been in direct opposition to a vast amount of scientific progress. No honest person can deny this. When Galileo discovered the earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around, the church wanted him killed because it contradicted the picture the gospels painted of our place in the world. The same goes for the anti-evolution nonsense that still goes on today. People are actively against the foundational theory uniting all biology, for no other reason than that it contradicts the religion they were taught.

Religious indoctrination installs cognitive biases in peoples' minds, causing strong feelings of resistance, anger, hostility and paranoia once they are confronted with certain scientific (& sometimes philosophical) topics that call into question the religious worldview they were indoctrinated with. The anti-intellectual, anti-science mindset that religion births is causing billions of people across the globe to remain centuries behind on a huge chunk of human knowledge. Thus, impeding the scientific & intellectual progress of humanity as a whole.

According to surveys, the countries with the lowest populations of religious people have the highest rates of quality education. It's not always accurate to imply causation from correlation, and the relationship might flow both ways, but it's quite obvious that the more religious someone is, the more unwelcoming of science they're likely to be.

3. Humanity could understand ourselves better. It is true that humans have innate biological insticts that drive much of our behavior. These insticts, as science continues to find, aren't magical but evolved. They helped our species survive, just like every other animals' insticts help it survive. Rather than helping us understand and best navigate our human instincts (like our emotional reactions & sexuality), religion demonizes and mystifies them. It manufactures a ridiculous amount of shame around simply being human.

Religion also, in it's ignorance, has stamped mental disorders with labels like "spiritual invasion" or "demonic posession". Instead of people getting the psychiatric help they need, people are sent to exorcists and other phony religious leaders for "deliverance". Not only does this put lives & minds in danger, but it generates an unnecessary sense of fear and panic around treatable medical conditions, causing people to fundamentally misunderstand their own mental health.

4. Humanity could be more proactive & prosperous. Rather than relying on prayer, which is essentially talking to yourself, people could be more likely to take action towards solving their problems if religion were not a factor in their lives. Again, we see that the most prospering and forward-moving countries have smaller percentages of people who think religiously. Because their societies are based in reason and evidence-based thinking, they are quicker to find workable solutions to economic, political, health, and other issues. Much of the law in the developed world is based on our current understanding of these issues according to research. NOT religious books, which were written by people 2,000 years ago who were quite ignorant in these areas.

5. Humanity could be happier. The biggest reason of all that people give for why people need religion, is that it gives them comfort and hope. When going through a rough time, praying helps people cope. When someone dies, the promise that you'll see them again is soothing. Although I don't deny that religion can serve as an emotional bandaid, or even a vessel for truly healing practices (ex. "giving your troubles up to god" could have the same cognitive effect as "accepting what you can't control and doing your best" ), it is NOT, imo, the only way, let alone the best way, for us to achieve happiness and peace.

As I've mentioned in previous posts, the areas of Neuroscience and Psychology are making some incredible discoveries as of late, uncovering long-awaited answers to our mysterious psyches and how to navigate them. Recent studies show that happiness, contentment, and compassion for onesself and others can be learned & practiced as skills; healing from grief, sorrow, and trauma can be achieved through evidence based psychiatric techniques (including self-directed therapies); and life's obstacles can be surmounted by tapping into proven resources (like a nurturing social environment).

In other words, very good answers to how to be happier, how to get over struggles, how to find peace, are out there. In this day and age, the internet, libraries and bookstores are swarming with this information. With some research into these resources, it should become clear that religion has outlived it's usefulness in this area as well.

So, to conclude, I think that humanity could not only survive without organized religion like the Abrahamic faiths, we could thrive. The children who are raised without the religion across the globe, in areas like the Netherlands, Japan, the Czech Republic, and Iceland, yet become healthy, happy, and functioning members of their societies, are evidence of this. At this point I feel like humanity is clutching on to religion like a child to it's stuffed animal. We don't need it anymore, we just think we do.

cloudgoddess:
I often see the argument posed by theists, and some atheists, that humanity somehow requires religion to keep from imploding on itself, and taking away religion would lead to widespread chaos and eventually doomsday.

I tend to strongly disagree.

This is a list of ways I think humanity could very likely be better off without religion now (specifically the Abrahamic religions and others with similar doctrines), supported by evidence I've come across.

Without religion:
1. Humanity could get along better. Tribalism is the blanket term to describe the innate human tendency to form alliances and groups against one another. More and more research is showing that tribalism can be overcome, and peace amongst people of different groups can be achieved, the more people are able to see a like-ness in one another. A "you are human just like me, I accept you, I feel comfortable around you".

Religion is a direct obstacle to achieving this like-ness, and it shouldn't be hard to imagine why. Religion teaches millions of people, usually via childhood indoctrination (brainwashing), that because the so-called "creator of the entire universe" said so, they are better, more "holy", more valuable, more moral than other groups of people. This is a perfect recipe for unnecessary tribalistic tendencies. And we see this type of religious tribalism unfolding all over the world, often violently.

Don't get me wrong, tribalism can and does exist in many other forms (racism, imperialism, even people with different tastes in music can form alliances based on that). But what sets religion apart is the fact that it rests upon a firm foundation of fear (of hell), and shielded from criticism in a way other forms of tribalism aren't, making it much harder to overcome.

2. Humanity could better understand the world & universe around us. Since the dawn of scientific & empirical thought, religion has been in direct opposition to a vast amount of scientific progress. No honest person can deny this. When Galileo discovered the earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around, the church wanted him killed because it contradicted the picture the gospels painted of our place in the world. The same goes for the anti-evolution nonsense that still goes on today. People are actively against the foundational theory uniting all biology, for no other reason than that it contradicts the religion they were taught.

Religious indoctrination installs cognitive biases in peoples' minds, causing strong feelings of resistance, anger, hostility and paranoia once they are confronted with certain scientific (& sometimes philosophical) topics that call into question the religious worldview they were indoctrinated with. The anti-intellectual, anti-science mindset that religion births is causing billions of people across the globe to remain centuries behind on a huge chunk of human knowledge. Thus, impeding the scientific & intellectual progress of humanity as a whole.

According to surveys, the countries with the lowest populations of religious people have the highest rates of quality education. It's not always accurate to imply causation from correlation, and the relationship might flow both ways, but it's quite obvious that the more religious someone is, the more unwelcoming of science they're likely to be.

3. Humanity could understand ourselves better. It is true that humans have innate biological insticts that drive much of our behavior. These insticts, as science continues to find, aren't magical but evolved. They helped our species survive, just like every other animals' insticts help it survive. Rather than helping us understand and best navigate our human instincts (like our emotional reactions & sexuality), religion demonizes and mystifies them. It manufactures a ridiculous amount of shame around simply being human.

Religion also, in it's ignorance, has stamped mental disorders with labels like "spiritual invasion" or "demonic posession". Instead of people getting the psychiatric help they need, people are sent to exorcists and other phony religious leaders for "deliverance". Not only does this put lives & minds in danger, but it generates an unnecessary sense of fear and panic around treatable medical conditions, causing people to fundamentally misunderstand their own mental health.

4. Humanity could be more proactive & prosperous. Rather than relying on prayer, which is essentially talking to yourself, people could be more likely to take action towards solving their problems if religion were not a factor in their lives. Again, we see that the most prospering and forward-moving countries have smaller percentages of people who think religiously. Because their societies are based in reason and evidence-based thinking, they are quicker to find workable solutions to economic, political, health, and other issues. Much of the law in the developed world is based on our current understanding of these issues according to research. NOT religious books, which were written by people 2,000 years ago who were quite ignorant in these areas.

5. Humanity could be happier. The biggest reason of all that people give for why people need religion, is that it gives them comfort and hope. When going through a rough time, praying helps people cope. When someone dies, the promise that you'll see them again is soothing. Although I don't deny that religion can serve as an emotional bandaid, or even a vessel for truly healing practices (ex. "giving your troubles up to god" could have the same cognitive effect as "accepting what you can't control and doing your best" ), it is NOT, imo, the only way, let alone the best way, for us to achieve happiness and peace.

As I've mentioned in previous posts, the areas of Neuroscience and Psychology are making some incredible discoveries as of late, uncovering long-awaited answers to our mysterious psyches and how to navigate them. Recent studies show that happiness, contentment, and compassion for onesself and others can be learned & practiced as skills; healing from grief, sorrow, and trauma can be achieved through evidence based psychiatric techniques (including self-directed therapies); and life's obstacles can be surmounted by tapping into proven resources (like a nurturing social environment).

In other words, very good answers to how to be happier, how to get over struggles, how to find peace, are out there. In this day and age, the internet, libraries and bookstores are swarming with this information. With some research into these resources, it should become clear that religion has outlived it's usefulness in this area as well.

So, to conclude, I think that humanity could not only survive without organized religion like the Abrahamic faiths, we could thrive. The children who are raised without the religion across the globe, in areas like the Netherlands, Japan, the Czech Republic, and Iceland, yet become healthy, happy, and functioning members of their societies, are evidence of this. At this point I feel like humanity is clutching on to religion like a child to it's stuffed animal. We don't need it anymore, we just think we do.

AmenRa1:

U are a big liar!! I guess U missed the Inquisition??

https://www.nairaland.com/3251274/inquisitions

cloudgoddess:

Very on point.

Also, happy birthday Valentine!

seankay:
Religion has lots of flaws and also impede the Religious ones from having a profound reasoning. I stopped being a Christian although I still believe in a Supreme Being but I reject Religion

delishpot:
Humans would never unite even without religion. It was the need to dominate and control that makes people use religion to cover their asses in the first place. If there was no religion, humans would still look for a way to dominate, conquer and destroy others for their own selfish gain. If you say no to religion, then they would use skin color, if you say no to racism, they would use disability or IQ and so on.
Religion is just a means to an end for many people. Not as if they care too much about the religion they are using as a shield or means to get their heart desires.

naijadeyhia:


You are an Atheist! Does truth matter to you? You have no moral code remember? So why are you trying to "face the truth". You may as well say anything and claim its the truth so why hold on what you just said as being the truth?

4everGod has said he does not want to engage you simply because he believes its not necessary and you conclude that he has no point to make? He simply did not want to waste his time as the thread is meaningless to him thats all.

So back to my question. Does truth matter to you? why?

Thylord:
you are one of the problems we have in this country.

cloudgoddess:
I often see the argument posed by theists, and some atheists, that humanity somehow requires religion to keep from imploding on itself, and taking away religion would lead to widespread chaos and eventually doomsday.

I tend to strongly disagree.

This is a list of ways I think humanity could very likely be better off without religion now (specifically the Abrahamic religions and others with similar doctrines), supported by evidence I've come across.

Without religion:
1. Humanity could get along better. Tribalism is the blanket term to describe the innate human tendency to form alliances and groups against one another. More and more research is showing that tribalism can be overcome, and peace amongst people of different groups can be achieved, the more people are able to see a like-ness in one another. A "you are human just like me, I accept you, I feel comfortable around you".

Religion is a direct obstacle to achieving this like-ness, and it shouldn't be hard to imagine why. Religion teaches millions of people, usually via childhood indoctrination (brainwashing), that because the so-called "creator of the entire universe" said so, they are better, more "holy", more valuable, more moral than other groups of people. This is a perfect recipe for unnecessary tribalistic tendencies. And we see this type of religious tribalism unfolding all over the world, often violently.

Don't get me wrong, tribalism can and does exist in many other forms (racism, imperialism, even people with different tastes in music can form alliances based on that). But what sets religion apart is the fact that it rests upon a firm foundation of fear (of hell), and shielded from criticism in a way other forms of tribalism aren't, making it much harder to overcome.

2. Humanity could better understand the world & universe around us. Since the dawn of scientific & empirical thought, religion has been in direct opposition to a vast amount of scientific progress. No honest person can deny this. When Galileo discovered the earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around, the church wanted him killed because it contradicted the picture the gospels painted of our place in the world. The same goes for the anti-evolution nonsense that still goes on today. People are actively against the foundational theory uniting all biology, for no other reason than that it contradicts the religion they were taught.

Religious indoctrination installs cognitive biases in peoples' minds, causing strong feelings of resistance, anger, hostility and paranoia once they are confronted with certain scientific (& sometimes philosophical) topics that call into question the religious worldview they were indoctrinated with. The anti-intellectual, anti-science mindset that religion births is causing billions of people across the globe to remain centuries behind on a huge chunk of human knowledge. Thus, impeding the scientific & intellectual progress of humanity as a whole.

According to surveys, the countries with the lowest populations of religious people have the highest rates of quality education. It's not always accurate to imply causation from correlation, and the relationship might flow both ways, but it's quite obvious that the more religious someone is, the more unwelcoming of science they're likely to be.

3. Humanity could understand ourselves better. It is true that humans have innate biological insticts that drive much of our behavior. These insticts, as science continues to find, aren't magical but evolved. They helped our species survive, just like every other animals' insticts help it survive. Rather than helping us understand and best navigate our human instincts (like our emotional reactions & sexuality), religion demonizes and mystifies them. It manufactures a ridiculous amount of shame around simply being human.

Religion also, in it's ignorance, has stamped mental disorders with labels like "spiritual invasion" or "demonic posession". Instead of people getting the psychiatric help they need, people are sent to exorcists and other phony religious leaders for "deliverance". Not only does this put lives & minds in danger, but it generates an unnecessary sense of fear and panic around treatable medical conditions, causing people to fundamentally misunderstand their own mental health.

4. Humanity could be more proactive & prosperous. Rather than relying on prayer, which is essentially talking to yourself, people could be more likely to take action towards solving their problems if religion were not a factor in their lives. Again, we see that the most prospering and forward-moving countries have smaller percentages of people who think religiously. Because their societies are based in reason and evidence-based thinking, they are quicker to find workable solutions to economic, political, health, and other issues. Much of the law in the developed world is based on our current understanding of these issues according to research. NOT religious books, which were written by people 2,000 years ago who were quite ignorant in these areas.

5. Humanity could be happier. The biggest reason of all that people give for why people need religion, is that it gives them comfort and hope. When going through a rough time, praying helps people cope. When someone dies, the promise that you'll see them again is soothing. Although I don't deny that religion can serve as an emotional bandaid, or even a vessel for truly healing practices (ex. "giving your troubles up to god" could have the same cognitive effect as "accepting what you can't control and doing your best" ), it is NOT, imo, the only way, let alone the best way, for us to achieve happiness and peace.

As I've mentioned in previous posts, the areas of Neuroscience and Psychology are making some incredible discoveries as of late, uncovering long-awaited answers to our mysterious psyches and how to navigate them. Recent studies show that happiness, contentment, and compassion for onesself and others can be learned & practiced as skills; healing from grief, sorrow, and trauma can be achieved through evidence based psychiatric techniques (including self-directed therapies); and life's obstacles can be surmounted by tapping into proven resources (like a nurturing social environment).

In other words, very good answers to how to be happier, how to get over struggles, how to find peace, are out there. In this day and age, the internet, libraries and bookstores are swarming with this information. With some research into these resources, it should become clear that religion has outlived it's usefulness in this area as well.

So, to conclude, I think that humanity could not only survive without organized religion like the Abrahamic faiths, we could thrive. The children who are raised without the religion across the globe, in areas like the Netherlands, Japan, the Czech Republic, and Iceland, yet become healthy, happy, and functioning members of their societies, are evidence of this. At this point I feel like humanity is clutching on to religion like a child to it's stuffed animal. We don't need it anymore, we just think we do.

delishpot:
Humans would never unite even without religion. It was the need to dominate and control that makes people use religion to cover their asses in the first place. If there was no religion, humans would still look for a way to dominate, conquer and destroy others for their own selfish gain. If you say no to religion, then they would use skin color, if you say no to racism, they would use disability or IQ and so on.
Religion is just a means to an end for many people. Not as if they care too much about the religion they are using as a shield or means to get their heart desires.

Humanity could better understand the world & universe around us. Since the dawn of scientific & empirical thought, religion has been in direct opposition to a vast amount of scientific progress. No honest person can deny this. When Galileo discovered the earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around, the church wanted him killed because it contradicted the picture the gospels painted of our place in the world. The same goes for the anti-evolution nonsense that still goes on today. People are actively against the foundational theory uniting all biology, for no other reason than that it contradicts the religion they were taught.

Religious indoctrination installs cognitive biases in peoples' minds, causing strong feelings of resistance, anger, hostility and paranoia once they are confronted with certain scientific (& sometimes philosophical) topics that call into question the religious worldview they were indoctrinated with. The anti-intellectual, anti-science mindset that religion births is causing billions of people across the globe to remain centuries behind on a huge chunk of human knowledge. Thus, impeding the scientific & intellectual progress of humanity as a whole

According to surveys, the countries with the lowest populations of religious people have the highest rates of quality education. It's not always accurate to imply causation from correlation, and the relationship might flow both ways, but it's quite obvious that the more religious someone is, the more unwelcoming of science they're likely to be.

4. Humanity could be more proactive & prosperous. Rather than relying on prayer, which is essentially talking to yourself, people could be more likely to take action towards solving their problems if religion were not a factor in their lives. Again, we see that the most prospering and forward-moving countries have smaller percentages of people who think religiously. Because their societies are based in reason and evidence-based thinking, they are quicker to find workable solutions to economic, political, health, and other issues. Much of the law in the developed world is based on our current understanding of these issues according to research. NOT religious books, which were written by people 2,000 years ago who were quite ignorant in these areas.

delishpot:



Hahaha, if you say so. like I said, those who kill in the nnameof religion would kill even if religion was not involved. They would kill in the name of honour, in the name of patriotism, in the name of financial gains etc. So..... the problem is not religion but the heart of the person who controls that religion and his followers.
But I see your point Religion could pose a conflict in the heart of a man so deep that he has to weigh his actions against his faith. I totally get where you are coming from. It makes a persons thought go like "should I expose where these "enemies" aka "non believers" are hiding and make heaven OR do I save their lives and have a case with God?
To me, when a man has to ask that question? Then he is practicing the wrong religion. Humanity is the purpose of God. Not the other way round. When a man would gladly kill for his God. Then he is off the right path.

delishpot:


That is why I said religion teaches the wrong stuff. Even the 10 commandments states it. Thou shalt worship No other God besides me. The word God is man made. People of all regions have their own gods and goddesses. Even before the advent of Christianity and Islam. There is hierarchy in the unseen. The battle to dominate is still on. Religion dumbs down peoples zeal to learn. To question.
There seem to be an unwritten rule. Both sides do not permanently harm each other. Even the Bible says on the second coming of Christ, Satan would be bound and caged for a thousand years. Ask yourself, why wouldn't he be killed or destroyed?

sugarban11:
religion is a scam, though, My dad is a muslim and my mum is a xtan.

engrchykae:
religion especially. Christianity was good until Europe snatched it and began to use it for selfish ends,
Rome. used the church to extend her longevity after the caesaren Rome served its time when genseric,Attila,Odoacer ended the Roman empire,criminals in Italy found a way to continue its hold on power and found papal Rome an effective tool and began to rob and enslaving the known ,world,England feeling sidelined by Core Catholic nations like. Italy,Portugal,Spain and France broke away and formed Anglican church until a descendant. of Abraham through Ishmael rose up to checkmate the excesses of the heathens who have bastardized the message of Christ.
but when Muhammad died vultures hijacked the movement for selfish ends.

lawani:
There is nothing wrong or evil in caring first for yourself, nuclear family, benefactors and nation before others. That is basic common sense. It is what all human beings should be doing. Howevere religion, meaning Christianity and Islam are totally evil.

4everGod:



Simply because I do not see Christianity being a reflection of any of the points you listed up there I will not engage you on this as its like magnifying the non existent. So for the first time in a long time I will leave this thread to you and muslims to battle it out.

*singing* great is our God, greatly to be praised, greatly to be praised, Father you reign......

Onye dinso nso nso agam aturugi mma mma e mma mma okorobia dimma mma mma eh, Chi onya nji eme onu, mma mma eh ....

Shalom!!!! Wow for some reason I am so full of joy right now...overflowing joy.....

Mattkent:


You really nailed it at the first bolded, I wish we can all see that and agree on that.

I don't agree with the second bolded tho, because pple really get that wrong. Its actually should be should I expose an evil doer(whether Muslim or non Muslim) hideout or not. Should I let the world know that he or she has accumulated public funds meant for the masses?

Now that's the true question.

naijadeyhia:


You are an Atheist! Does truth matter to you? You have no moral code remember? So why are you trying to "face the truth". You may as well say anything and claim its the truth so why hold on what you just said as being the truth?

4everGod has said he does not want to engage you simply because he believes its not necessary and you conclude that he has no point to make? He simply did not want to waste his time as the thread is meaningless to him thats all.

So back to my question. Does truth matter to you? why?