Sarassin:


But of course. I will give it a stab with the proviso that I make no representations to speak for all Pantheists, here are my thoughts;

The celebrated Poet John Donne in his acclaimed poem, No man is an island, wrote :

“ Every man is a part of the continent, a part of the main………..any man’s death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind….”

The Pre-Socratic Greek Philosopher Heraclitus taught:

“moreover we step into the river and out of the river as different beings” and then he went on to say “Gods are mortal, humans immortal, living their death, dying their life.”

These two different views by fabulous doyens of their times sums up for me the Pantheistic world view, one represents the inter-connectivity and inter-dependence of things in a closed system,the "Butterfly effect," if you will. The other view quite simply postulates that everything changes, nature itself is change flowing ever onwards, and even the nature of the flow changes. These for me represent the twin-fold basic principles of Pantheism.

It is not the case that Pantheists deify the physical structures of the cosmos i.e, the Galaxies, planets and their satellites, No. Think of the Pantheist concept of Divinity more as a moving spirit or awareness that permeates the universe, is sentient, and represents the sum total of all that has been before, all that is, and all that will be. Always seeking nothing but the highest good of its integral parts. Not unlike the Christian God, but without subjective personality or to borrow your phrase without the anthropomorphism and without the earth-bound limitations of a religious deity. And then imagine that absolutely anyone can form a part of this awareness.

In Christianity as well as the other great religions of the world, the concept of the Universal supreme deity as opposed to say a Global monotheistic deity, is an afterthought due to the inability of the ancients to fully grasp the full extent of the magnitude of the universe in much the same way today we see limitations with concepts such as for instance multiple universes.

DeepSight:

Where is Plaetton. He is Pantheist too. Come here Sire.

JackBizzle:



Here are two defintions of pantheism.........focus on number 2!


pantheism
ˈpanθiːɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
1.
a doctrine which identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God.
2.
the worship or tolerance of many gods.

DeepSight:


Its interesting but escapist.
Elements of it here and there are true: regardless: the Creative Factor of our Reality transcends this reality.
It is flawed in that regard.

plaetton:

Don't forget that God is just a generic name for a an abstract concept.
There is nothing in the universe called god.

Therefore, when a pantheist says " god " , he is only making reference to a generic concept, for the purpose of discussion.

Our universe is definitely a manifestation of matter. All matter are made of electrons. All electrons behave in the same way no matter where they are. Therefore an electron is the universe. One electron is as good as another, therefore one electron rules the universe.

Therefore one electron is the universe , and the universe is one electron.
In other words, the electron is in the universe, and universe is in the electron.
Similarly, god is in the Universe, and the universe is in God.
This is the summary of the pantheistic worldview.

KingEbukasBlog:


What about Multiverses - infinite number of universes ? How do you incorporate your pantheistic beliefs with the concept ? Will you see the totality of the universes as one god or as different gods ?

plaetton:

There is no creative factor in reality.
Reality is a long series of cosmic accidents, a long endless series of cosmic lotteries.
That's why it took 4.7 billion years Of SIMULTANEOUS and dynamic cosmic lotteries to evolve this current reality to where it is.

That's why we live our short lives and disappear back to nothingness , as just constituent particles in the ever dynamic cosmic cycle.

KingEbukasBlog:


That's the dome cosmology but the bible does not endorse it though you might expostulate this , let's leave that for now .

What exactly validates this view ' a creation of itself' , science ? Or a mere supposition ?

I strongly disagree , I mean it is apparent that panentheism took a step further with the view that the divine extends beyond time and space as per God being transcendent - greater than the material universe . So how is that self-limiting ?

plaetton:

There is no creative factor in reality.
Reality is a long series of cosmic accidents, a long endless series of cosmic lotteries.
That's why it took 4.7 billion years Of SIMULTANEOUS and dynamic cosmic lotteries to evolve this current reality to where it is.

That's why we live our short lives and disappear back to nothingness , as just constituent particles in the ever dynamic cosmic cycle.

Sarassin:


On the contrary, it is the main issue. Ancient Canaanite worldview mirrored that of their neighboring states it is well endorsed in the Genesis creation monologue.

I qualified my statement with the word “perhaps” and I went on further to state “cause as yet unknown”

Of course you disagree! However, your statement @ the bolded is simply not borne out in religious scripture. It stands to reason that if the creation monologue does not allow for a Universal cosmology at the outset, then it is mere sophistry to state that God transcends the universe, which for the most part Christianity and most religions for that matter have only become aware of ……..retrospectively.

DeepSight:


Its interesting but escapist.
Elements of it here and there are true: regardless: [size=14pt]the Creative Factor of our Reality transcends this reality.[/size]
It is flawed in that regard.

JackBizzle:


And how would you know that? How would you know that something is outside (transcends) your reality? Isn't that an oxymoron?

How could you possibly know what is outside your reality?

Please, no insults- just answer my question.

plaetton:

There is no creative factor in reality.

Reality is a long series of cosmic accidents, a long endless series of cosmic lotteries.
That's why it took 4.7 billion years Of SIMULTANEOUS and dynamic cosmic lotteries to evolve this current reality to where it is.

That's why we live our short lives and disappear back to nothingness , as just constituent particles in the ever dynamic cosmic cycle.

DeepSight:




BTW why did you run away the other day when you had the hilarious statement that there is no dispute concerning evolution? did you go to za oza room?

DeepSight:


Its just as obvious that a moving ball must have been acted upon by a force or trigger outside of itself.

It's that simple, you dodo.

JackBizzle:


So, you haven't answered the question- how do you know something that is outside your reality?

KingEbukasBlog:


Whatever caused the existence of the universe cannot be of this reality , its greater than it . And nothingness isn't empty space as we imagine in our heads . It means non existence . The universe and the constituents of this reality were not in existence 15 billion years - they had a beginning and were caused by a transcendent reality .

To better understand what I mean ; we have the physical reality and the virtual reality . The physical reality is the 'creative factor' of the virtual reality , it transcends it . The virtual reality is dependent on the physical reality . The thoughts , actions of this reality birthed the virtual reality .

Assuming this reality has always been existing then your assertions - that this universe is all there is - would seem plausible .

DeepSight:


Its just as obvious that a moving ball must have been acted upon by a force or trigger outside of itself.

It's that simple, you dodo.

JackBizzle:



Please, no insults or dodging.

You know that a moving ball must have had an outside force that acted upon it because it is in your reality- You know this from observing forces within your reality.

So, you haven't answered the question- how do you know something that is outside your reality?

plaetton:


No sir.

We are not in kindergarten here.

I find it surprising that one who speaks so much about infinity cannot himself contemplate the idea that very well could have no beginning of time and space.

And yes, I know we see the big ba.ng as the beginning. But, the big ban.g was more likely an important inflection point, rather than the beginning of existence.

KingEbukasBlog:


Read this sir : http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html

plaetton:


And the point is ....?

Wilgrea7:
i have a question please... do pantheists believe in hell?

KingEbukasBlog:


The universe has not existed forever , and time itself had a beginning in the Big Bang , about 15 billion years ago .

KingEbukasBlog:


Genesis 1 : 1
In the beginning , God created the heavens and the earth .

"In the beginning" explicitly shows us that God is not bound by time or associated with our material universe . As scientific knowledge grew , we understood the nature of God much better .

Let's move on

So what's your view on the soul/spirit , afterlife and reincarnation . The purpose of the existence of the soul/spirit ( used interchangeably) , why there is an afterlife and why does the universe feel that man has to reincarnate , as a pantheist

Sarassin:

And your entire proof of this lies solely on three utterly gratuitous words. Needless to say, I don’t accept this, but yes, lets move on.



There are some common denominators in Pantheistic belief, for instance the belief that the Divine is “in” or “of” the universe and not “without” as with religious deities, as well as the badly misinterpreted belief that “everything is Divine” and “The Divine is in everything”. That said, there are also significant differences. Personally I don’t see that Pantheism precludes a belief in reincarnation and by extension, an afterlife.

Others may disagree, clearly in the classical Pantheistic view, death is regarded as the return to nature of our elements, and the end of our existence as individuals. The forms of “afterlife” or reincarnation available to humans are natural ones, in the natural world. Our actions, our ideas and memories of us live on, according to what we do in our lives, or so it goes.

As a Tantra practitioner, I am a firm believer in reincarnation, and the concept of the birth-death-birth cycle, where a soul (awareness) moves from body to body. This forward and backward progression is based on the Law of Karma, which of course is a central foundation of eastern philosophies.

Why do I hold these beliefs? in brief, without dipping too deeply into esoterica and by way of illustration, we know now that we can delve into verifiable past lives to get a glimpse of where we have been. The present Dalai Lama, like all others before him will one day go to a particular spot at a lake where the time, date and manner of his death as well as his next incarnation will be revealed to him

Pantheism does not promise an afterlife in some heaven, nor in hell. Merely that at death we begin a process of transformation and progression, life of course yearns for life.

plaetton:

Don't forget that God is just a generic name for a an abstract concept.
There is nothing in the universe called god.

Therefore, when a pantheist says " god " , he is only making reference to a generic concept, for the purpose of discussion.

Our universe is definitely a manifestation of matter. All matter are made of electrons. All electrons behave in the same way no matter where they are. Therefore an electron is the universe. One electron is as good as another, therefore one electron rules the universe.

Therefore one electron is the universe , and the universe is one electron.
In other words, the electron is in the universe, and universe is in the electron.
Similarly, god is in the Universe, and the universe is in God.
This is the summary of the pantheistic worldview.

JackBizzle:



Do you not see the logical paradox you created.

Electrons make up everything in the universe.....therefore....
Electrons rule the universe
Electrons = God


But then.


If God is everything, then is it truly a god?
Because if we introduce a similar quantity of anti-matter, God is finished
If God is everything, then what makes god a god? God is not special if he or she is in everyone. Just a mundane aspect of life like dna.

orunto27:
Fed up, that's Pantheism. Then Surrender and Abandon, that's the Conclusion.

KingEbukasBlog:


You are mixing up the anthropomorphic God with the pantheistic God .