TheGoodJoe:


There is a big difference playing alongside someone and sitting down to watch and study the person. When Pogba played/trained at Juventus, Pirlo was controlling. Do you think Pogba will sit and study Pirlo during that phase.

At City, Patrick Vieira took Emery Huws to the Etihad to sit with him and watch Sergio Busquets play. It takes a lot to get that. Huws after the game said Busquets was amazing.

goldfish80:

Sitting on the bench for 2 years won't stagnate him?

I remember Serge Gnarby's case at Arsenal. For the better part of 2years he was not playing due to injuries and bad loan spell with Tony Pulis at West Bromwich. The young man stagnated and people quickly forgot about him.

The DFB pushed for his return to Germany and so far this season with a decent run of games for Wolfsburg, he's a full Germany international and one of the hottest prospects in the Bundesliga with more than 5goals to his name.
Truth is that young players stagnate when they are starved of games between the ages of 21-23.

Another example is Adama coulibaly at Middlesbrough,who was hands down the most talented player from his set from the Mestaila academy.
The guy stagnated over the past few seasons due to injuries and bad loan spells at Aston Villa and the like. This seasons with the proper environment at Middlesborough with Karanka, he has simply been unplayable.

Iheanacho shouldn't wait to stagnate for 2 years sitting on the bench before he pushed for first team football elsewhere.
Many talented young players haven't come back from such draw backs.

TheGoodJoe:


The scenario of Gnabry you are painting flaws your point when you add he stagnated after a loan spell. I thought you want me to believe that a loan spell is the right option? Is it not Victor Moses that went on repeated loan spells and the coaches treated him like thrash.

Giuseppe Rossi went on loan to Newcastle and the coach just dumped him on the bench.

I have said it again, Iheanacho is young. He will get playing time. What Iheanacho needs now is to keep learning to understand the system.

goldfish80:

Pogba trained with Pirlo everyday, traveled to games on the same bus, watched match reviews and shared dressing rooms with him.
He will be stupid not to learn alot from Pirlo in the 3 years they played together.

Some things are not coach able. Its either you're born with it or you're not.
Pogba is a b2b midfielder. He can never control a midfield like Zidane, Xavi, schooles, Pirlo or even Fabregas.

goldfish80:


Coulibaly got injured playing for Aston Villa, by the time he came back, the team was in 5's and 6's.. That's why I described the deal as a bad move for him.

Moses bounced off on loan to seek first team football. Brenda Rogers tossed him to the bench at Liverpool, he was decent for Mark Hughes at Stoke but for injury, he was on fire whenever he stepped on the pitch for Westham,which was few and far in between due to injuries again.
Moses have had an injury plagued career so far. I hope the Chelsea doctors and physio look after him so he can have an injury free season

TheGoodJoe:


Shweinstiger can shot, play box to box, bringing in energy to the game with his work rate. Apart from Pogba being more skillful than Shweinstiger, Shweinstiger can do most of what Pogba can do but, Shweinstiger can control the game.

It was a lesson Pogba missed. He would have studied Scholes, worked on improving his controlling the game skill with Ferguson who watched Scholes grow as a midfielder. Who best to teach Pogba than Sir Alex Ferguson.

Unfortunately, the kid was too eager to shine and today it is accepted that Pogba can not control the midfield.

goldfish80:

LOL.. Schweinsteiger has always been a deep lying playmaker from day one.
I watched his emergence prior to the 2006 world cup. When he replaced Tosten Frings, I think.

Schweinsteiger doesn't play b2b, rather Micheal Ballack played B2b while Schweinsteiger and Frings controls the game from deep.

Pogba is like Ballack, he needs a deep lying playmaker to function properly.
That's why Mourin is interested in getting Mikel Obi.

TheGoodJoe:


Train is not the same thing as sit down and watch. Get it.

Sit down and watch. Unless you can show me Pogba sitting down to study Pirlo's game style and a coach who trained players like Scholes and Pirlo. You can not prove Pogba had the kind of training Ferguson had in mind for Pogba.

Ferguson noticed Pogba had the talent to be an all round midfielder. Brought Scholes back from retirement and wanted Pogba to study Scholes. He refused and went to shine. Today, it is accepted, he did not learn the lesson.

Finito.

TheGoodJoe:


By the way, you are misusing words. Are you saying, all these years, Victor Moses stagnated?

One thing I learnt over the years is that, talent does not rot. A good example is Mikel. Despite playing as a four for club or country over the years, when Keshi moved him to ten, he blossomed. He did not stagnate.

Adama Traore got some of the best education at Barcelona. After that, he went on a hunt for playing time. He is showing so much promise because without playing time with Barca's main team, he gain a lot learning from their Wonderful coaches. The influence of training with the likes of Iniesta and Messi.

Without La Masia academy, Traore will not be the kind of player he is today. Education first.

goldfish80:

Let's push semantics and not elevate Ferguson like he knew it all.
Ferguson have in his time had world class players stagnate under his watchful eyes.

Iheanacho is facing same problem Diego Forlan faced at Man Utd.
Forlan had decent goal to game ratio for man utd but he found himself perpetually on the bench for Rud Van Nisteroy.

Forlan left for Villareal and later Athletico Madrid where he won more than 3 pichichi's.

goldfish80:

I've been erroneously referring to him as Coulibaly. Some of these Franco phone names confuse me. Diarra, Diawarra etc

Truth is that Traore wouldn't have developed if he was comfortable on the Barca bench or with the team B.
Martin Caeseres had to move on loan to Juve to fulfil his potential because the minutes aren't coming at Barcelona. There are lots of examples

TheGoodJoe:


Did you see how you jumped the whole education and put Pichichi on leaving.

You neglected the hours every day in training Manuel Pellegrini faced with Forlan. You missed that Forlan had a fallout with Ferguson because he was not ready to train with Iron studs.

Forlan was lucky that after his fallout with Ferguson, he had a coach like Pellegrini who took extra hours to keep working on Forlan.

There is an educational stage. Iheanacho is still learning.

TheGoodJoe:


Did you see how you jumped the whole education and put Pichichi on leaving.

You neglected the hours every day in training Manuel Pellegrini faced with Forlan. You missed that Forlan had a fallout with Ferguson because he was not ready to train with Iron studs.

Forlan was lucky that after his fallout with Ferguson, he had a coach like Pellegrini who took extra hours to keep working on Forlan.

There is an educational stage. Iheanacho is still learning.

goldfish80:

You have finally landed. Now you're talking.
Forlan didn't believe only Ferguson could improve him and just sat at Manchester.
He moved to a then very small club, Villareal. Where he met someone who believed in him and dedicated time to train him and get him game time, while at Man Utd, he was just a training cone and a sub who came in every 88'minute.

zicky:
From today's City match with Chelsea, I could see what Lord Guardiola is teaching our Iheanacho in training.

Guardiola well done, God is watching you chai

Icon4s:

Fighting!

TheGoodJoe:


At Manchester United, Forlan was not just a training cone. He was a special project. However, Forlan was eager to impress on the field than take in the lessons.

He had poor games with the iron studs and switched them to rubber.

When Ferguson found out, they had a fallout. With time, Forlan would have adjusted to the boots and Ferguson would have moulded Forlan to his taste.

Fortunately, he landed with Pellegrini who knew what he wanted from Forlan and it worked.

However, there are not many coaches like Pellegrini. With Guardiola, we have a coach with a history of bringing the best in players.

There is no need leaving. Spend time in training. Learn and then seek playing time. For now, I do not think this is the time to clamour for playing time.

goldfish80:


Iheanacho is at a stage where he needs regular run of games, not just training. He's no longer an academy lad.
At this stage of their development, Lukaku and Kevin de Bryn went into the woods.
If Kevin de Bryn didn't leave Chelsea and have the seasons he had on loan at wolfsburg, he would be at the level of Lucas Piazon who sat at Chelsea and missed a critical part of his development.

zicky:
From today's City match with Chelsea, I could see what Lord Guardiola is teaching our Iheanacho in training.

Guardiola well done, God is watching you chai

goldfish80:


Iheanacho is at a stage where he needs regular run of games, not just training. He's no longer an academy lad.
At this stage of their development, Lukaku and Kevin de Bryn went into the woods.
If Kevin de Bryn didn't leave Chelsea and have the seasons he had on loan at wolfsburg, he would be at the level of Lucas Piazon who sat at Chelsea and missed a critical part of his development.

TheGoodJoe:


City has a poor conversion rate and I expect Guardiola to keep drilling them in training to improve.

So, to improve the team's conversion rate will require work on the training ground. After that, the game time is to show or test how far the team progressed. Not necessarily to improve the players finishing.

Nacho will learn more from these drills.

tbaba1234:


This argument is running in circles. Man city is not the only team that does drills.

He can do many of those drills elsewhere with regular football.

tbaba1234:


This argument is running in circles. Man city is not the only team that does drills.

He can do many of those drills elsewhere with regular football.

TheGoodJoe:


Guardiola set up this drill for Bayern Munich youngsters to improve their passing ability. The improvement form such a drill is far higher than playing matches.

tbaba1234:


How exactly? It is just a drill. There is nothing special in it. Games are completely different.

TheGoodJoe:


You do not know how Iheanacho feels because you do not know what is going on in camp. For instance, there is a possibility of a clear out phase two in Manchester City. Some old players might leave just as Bony and Hart left. This will give more room for the younger players.

As I said before, other youngsters are in the same position. You do not know how the training goes or if Guardiola have promised them games. So saying you know how Iheanacho feels is far fetched.

Kog45:
Pls do I need to be at d training or man city camp to express my opinion,if that's is d case your theoretical opinions on Guardiola and Iheanacho doesn't hold water coz u are not in d camp.

I have been following your thread on Iheanacho training under Guardiola and how it w have a great effect on d young man and not having much games w not affect his fitness.Pls did u watched city vs Chelsea?then u w understand peoples opinions on Nacho not having a playing time even for 20 to 30 mins w not be good for his development,forget all this your hype that he is learning under Guardiola.

Most of d time u are trying to compare Mikel lack of playing time with Iheanacho.I want to tell u there is difference btw Mikel and d rest in d Eagles.Apart from talent d guy have 11 years experience as Chelsea and national team player which Iheanacho is lacking.And when we talk of talent which u always said is not easy to fade away,but mind u a talent sitting on d bench w rotten e.g.Mikel performance during last world cup was due to lack of playing time and for him to maintain his Eagles status he must leave Chelsea.

Iheanacho at this stage cannot be a bench warmer under disguise of learning under Guadiola and be walking straight into d national team coz he lack d experience to be given such privilege.Rohr has said it with d exception of Mikel,he doesn't guarantee any Eagles's player automatic shirt.Do u know why Mikel talent cannot be compared to any present eagles players including Iheanacho and Iwobi is coz d guy is a class and thorough professional who understand d game so well.

The issue of Iheanacho learning under Guardiola is baseless,are u saying Iheanacho under Pellegrin learnt nothing coz your assertion on this issue is out of hand and there is need to draw d curtains on it.

Super Eagle we have a better nacho learning and still be playing under Guardiola not nacho watching from bench.

TheGoodJoe:


Iheanacho is a young player with a lot to learn. For instance, Pogba never learnt how to control the midfield because he was impatient for Glory. He has the glory but missed the lesson.

TheGoodJoe:


Isco warms bench and you feel Iheanacho is too big to warm bench. Kovacic warms bench.

Iwobi that had all the playing time, did he not drop form? Moses that warmed bench, did he not pick form?

At this stage in Iheanacho's career, he needs nurture and training on the training field than playing time. I have giving loads of analogies to explain this.

In Nigeria '99, the Costa Rican team had poor converting rate against Nigeria. The coach said he will take the team to the training pitch and drill them until they get it right. I watched some videos of the shooting drills the coach put the team on.

In their next games, they improved. Improvement mostly comes from the training pitches. That is why coaches spend more time there than match games.