Chibuebem: where did they go?

Abraham's Bosom ?

frosbel:


Abraham's Bosom ?

the bible also used the sons of God to describe angels in the book of Job.

frosbel:


I was stating your opinion not mine, I do not believe Elijah or Enoch went to heaven , especially before Jesus.

If they didnt go to heaven where are they because the scripture made this account clear. Also Hebrews 11:5 confirmed that Enoch did not see death. so where is he? pls explain the bolded too.

Hebrews 11;5.
5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”[a] For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.


Here is Elijah's account in 2kings 2:2,9-1

2 When the LORD was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal. 2 Elijah said to Elisha, “Stay here; the LORD has sent me to Bethel.”

9 When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, “Tell me, what can I do for you before I am taken from you?”
“Let me inherit a double portion of your spirit,” Elisha replied.
10 “You have asked a difficult thing,” Elijah said, “yet if you see me when I am taken from you, it will be yours—otherwise, it will not.”
11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.


See what happened to those who doubted this incident and how they were put to shame by Elisha from vers 15-17 of the same chapter-

15 The company of the prophets from Jericho, who were watching, said, “The spirit of Elijah is resting on Elisha.” And they went to meet him and bowed to the ground before him. 16 “Look,” they said, “we your servants have fifty able men. Let them go and look for your master. Perhaps the Spirit of the Lord has picked him up and set him down on some mountain or in some valley.”

“No,” Elisha replied, “do not send them.”

17 But they persisted until he was too embarrassed to refuse. So he said, “Send them.” And they sent fifty men, who searched for three days but did not find him. 18 When they returned to Elisha, who was staying in Jericho, he said to them, “Didn’t I tell you not to go?”

For those of you who said that Elijah was taken to somewhere to continue his works (even when the scriptures never said so) by quoting 2 Chronicles 21:12, I also say to you that David died in 1 Kings2:10-

10 Then David rested with his ancestors and was buried in the City of David. 11 He had reigned forty years over Israel—seven years in Hebron and thirty-three in Jerusalem. 12 So Solomon sat on the throne of his father David, and his rule was firmly established.

Yet the book of chronicles carries David's story and activities.saul died in 1 Samuel 31:4,5 yet his account continued in Chronicles so does it mean he rose up after his death in 1 samuel and continued his work in chronicles and died the second time there? No. If we should follow the line of arguments you people are making, it means that David died and still woke up to continue his work somewhere hence the mention of him in the book of chronicles(as you want us to believe in the case of Elijah). Na wa for una. The thing wey una dey present in your defence sef dey get K leg, Y leg, Z leg, Q leg and so on.... una dey try o, to wipe away hell fire(at least in nairaland), But does that wipe it in the actual sense? No Sir.

The scripture only told us that Elijah was taken to heaven and that's all. In no other place in the scripture are we told that Elijah was taken somewhere by the chariot to continue the work. If Elijah was taken to a another city as you people want us to believe, Elisha would ve told the 50 prophets and there wouldn't have been any need for them to search for Elijah. The bible mentioned heaven and it is that heaven that raised the curiosity to search for three days and be sure he wasn't hiding somewhere. Let's just face the reality and stop all this games in scriptural interpretation just to cancel hell fire that is in the scriptures. Hell is real.

alexleo:

If they didnt go to heaven where are they because the scripture made this account clear. Also Hebrews 11:5 confirmed that Enoch did not see death. so where is he? pls explain the bolded too.

Hebrews 11;5.
5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”[a] For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

First of all, you keep ignoring the words of your Messiah who said :

"No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man." - John 3:13

This means exactly what it says , no MAN prior to Jesus ever went to heaven and that included Moses, Abraham, David etc.

Now , let us break down this scripture.

First of all we know that Enoch died because in the same chapter you quote it says :

"All these people died still believing what God had promised them. They did not receive what was promised, but they saw it all from a distance and welcomed it. They agreed that they were foreigners and nomads here on earth." - Hebrews 11:13

The word ALL used here means ALL and not SOME , so let us try not to twist it to suit our position for the sake of it.

Enoch and all the saints pre-Christ , died , having not received the promise. What was the promise ? Eternal life in the new Kingdom of God or new heaven and earth.

We can then infer that the death spoken of was not physical death but the second death , the reward of the wicked.

Enoch pleased God so much that he either died prematurely or was taken away out of midst of rampant evil and chaos of those times. Normally when people die, we say God gave and has taken away. I believe God took away Enoch by either physical death with the hope of resurrection on the final day or he was translated from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of GOD and removed from the midst of all the evil around him.

"Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:" - Colossians 1:13

It is only those who have been translated from darkness to light , who will not see the second death , for Jesus said :

"Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death." - John 8:51

If we are honest with ourselves, we know that the death spoken of here does not in anyway mean physical death but eternal death.

or

" and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?" - John 11:2


Again , the underlined statement does not mean we will never die, it means we will escape the second death.


So we know that Enoch eventually died because the bible says that :

"Altogether, Enoch lived a total of 365 years." - Genesis 5:23


To recap :

1. Enoch pleased GOD in a wicked generation of degenerates.
2. God translated him from the present evil world into the kingdom of light
3. He was taken out of the midst of all the wickedness or given over to physical death.
5. He lived for 365 days and died.
6. He will be raised again on the last day and made this prophecy :

"It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones," - Jude 1:14

@ alexeo, let us address each point you raised one by one. I saved your other points and will move to the next one when we exhaust this one on Enoch.

frosbel:


First of all, you keep ignoring the words of your Messiah who said :

"No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man." - John 3:13

This means exactly what it says , no MAN prior to Jesus ever went to heaven and that included Moses, Abraham, David etc.

Now , let us break down this scripture.

First of all we know that Enoch died because in the same chapter you quote it says :

"All these people died still believing what God had promised them. They did not receive what was promised, but they saw it all from a distance and welcomed it. They agreed that they were foreigners and nomads here on earth." - Hebrews 11:13

The word ALL used here means ALL and not SOME , so let us try not to twist it to suit our position for the sake of it.

Enoch and all the saints pre-Christ , died , having not received the promise. What was the promise ? Eternal life in the new Kingdom of God or new heaven and earth.

We can then infer that the death spoken of was not physical death but the second death , the reward of the wicked.

Enoch pleased God so much that he either died prematurely or was taken away out of midst of rampant evil and chaos of those times. Normally when people die, we say God gave and has taken away. I believe God took away Enoch by either physical death with the hope of resurrection on the final day or he was translated from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of GOD and removed from the midst of all the evil around him.

"Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:" - Colossians 1:13

It is only those who have been translated from darkness to light , who will not see the second death , for Jesus said :

"Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death." - John 8:51

If we are honest with ourselves, we know that the death spoken of here does not in anyway mean physical death but eternal death.

or

" and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?" - John 11:2


Again , the underlined statement does not mean we will never die, it means we will escape the second death.


So we know that Enoch eventually died because the bible says that :

"Altogether, Enoch lived a total of 365 years." - Genesis 5:23


To recap :

1. Enoch pleased GOD in a wicked generation of degenerates.
2. God translated him from the present evil world into the kingdom of light
3. He was taken out of the midst of all the wickedness or given over to physical death.
5. He lived for 365 days and died.
6. He will be raised again on the last day and made this prophecy :

"It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones," - Jude 1:14

Bros you are not being honest here in your interpretation. The scripture talked about Enoch and concluded his own matter. That verse said he did not see death and could not be found because God translated him. And you are here telling me this? So you mean that the writer of this chapter was insane when he wrote about Enoch? Just to prove you right? Sorry that's your own interpretation and it doesn't follow. If I say that jonathan was elected president of Nigeria. Buhari was also one time head of state, IBB was also a one time head of state, these all came into power through coup. Then you ll now summarize it that what I mean is that all of them came into power through coup even when I stated clearly that Jonathan was elected? Na wa for you bros. Try another thing pls.

alexleo:

Bros you are not being honest here in your interpretation. The scripture talked about Enoch and concluded his own matter. That verse said he did not see death and could not be found because God translated him. And you are here telling me this? So you mean that the writer of this chapter was insane when he wrote about Enoch? Just to prove you right? Sorry that's your own interpretation and it doesn't follow. If I say that jonathan was elected president of Nigeria. Buhari was also one time head of state, IBB was also a one time head of state, these all came into power through coup. Then you ll now summarize it that what I mean is that all of them came into power through coup even when I stated clearly that Jonathan was elected? Na wa for you bros. Try another thing pls.

By refusing to rightly diving the word of GOD you are unwittingly calling Jesus a Liar.

Obviosuly if his words meant anything to you, you will believe him and agree when he said :

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." - John 3:13

So who should we believe, Alexeo + Tradition or Jesus + Truth ?

frosbel:

By refusing to rightly diving the word of GOD you are unwittingly calling Jesus a Liar.

Obviosuly if his words meant anything to you, you will believe him and agree when he said :

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." - John 3:13

So who should we believe, Alexeo + Tradition or Jesus + Truth ?

Ok so what the bible said about Elijah and Enoch has suddenly become my words just to prove your believe right Hahahahah.... Feel free with your believe bros.

alexleo:

Ok so what the bible said about Elijah and Enoch has suddenly become my words just to prove your believe right Hahahahah.... Feel free with your believe bros.

1. Enoch and Elijah skipped Abraham's Bossom to Heaven direct while Abraham and co remained bound in Abraham's bossom.
2. Hebrews 1:13 mentioned all these men and their feats and confirmed that they all died
3. Enoch and Elijah gained immortality even before the resurrection which hinged on the sacrifice of Jesus and resurrection
4. Jesus was joking when he said no MAN had being to heaven before him


I leave you to believe the LIE.

frosbel:

1. Enoch and Elijah skipped Abraham's Bossom to Heaven direct while Abraham and co remained bound in Abraham's bossom.
2. Hebrews 1:13 mentioned all these men and their feats and confirmed that they all died
3. Enoch and Elijah gained immortality even before the resurrection which hinged on the sacrifice of Jesus and resurrection
4. Jesus was joking when he said no MAN had being to heaven before him


I leave you to believe the LIE.

These are all your interpretations which does not hold water. Bros its obvious you are the one believing lies in this issue.

alexleo:

These are all your interpretations which does not hold water. Bros its obvious you are the one believing lies in this issue.

I understand , Jesus was 'lying' , Enoch and Elijah had ascended to Heaven before the Son of God. We should throw out John 3:13, it was an error in translation.

alexleo: @frosbel

These are all your interpretations which does not hold water. Bros its obvious you are the one believing lies in this issue.

@Ffrobel have told the truth rightly dividing the word of truth.

frosbel:

I understand , Jesus was 'lying' , Enoch and Elijah had ascended to Heaven before the Son of God. We should throw out John 3:13, it was an error in translation.

Quite interesting how you are holding on to the words of Jesus in John3:13 without giving it any other interpretation.
I wish you will also hold on to his words in Mark 9:43-48 without giving it any other interpretation-



Mark 9:43
43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [44] [b] 45 And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46] [c] 47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where

“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’[d]

Also matthew5:22

22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Matthew 18;9

9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Luke 16:19-31

[b]19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”[/b]


or does the words of Jesus make sense and becomes true only when it suits your believe, and when it doesnt suit your believe, then it will need your interpretations for it to make sense and be true? Lets be honest.

truthislight:

@Ffrobel have told the truth rightly dividing the word of truth.

truth in your interpretations which of course does not hold any drop of water.

frosbel:

By refusing to rightly diving the word of GOD you are unwittingly calling Jesus a Liar.

Obviosuly if his words meant anything to you, you will believe him and agree when he said :

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." - John 3:13

So who should we believe, Alexeo + Tradition or Jesus + Truth ?

you are the one not rightly dividing the word sir. Out of the mouth of two or 3 witnesses, every word shall be established.

^^^^

You guys have been programmed by the brainwashing machine of your institutions to believe the LIE , it's time you start reasoning out the scriptures and not just towing the popular line of thought.

frosbel: ^^^^

You guys have been programmed by the brainwashing machine of your institutions to believe the LIE , it's time you start reasoning out the scriptures and not just towing the popular line of thought.

This one you are telling is story. Its irrelevant and a distraction to the issue at hand. There is something I wrote up there for you. That's where I stand. Every other thing you are saying now is stories and a medium to deviate from where we are now. Let's keep to the stage we are now in this biblical presentations so far. Thanks.

Chibuebem: you are the one not rightly dividing the word sir. Out of the mouth of two or 3 witnesses, every word shall be established.

Thanks and he must not deviate from the issue at hand which I posted up there. God bless you.

I have explained why I believe the lazarus story to be a parable and Jesus does not begin all his parables like a parable sometimes he just starts it straight, like d parable of d son dat was killed. Then I mentioned dat it was too similar to the greek pagan hell and that it was adapted by the jews and made into a jewish fable, Jesus used d fable to teach dem a lesson, even though he is not advocating paganism just like he did in the story of the dishonest slave who cheated his master to curry favors from his masters debtors.

I am going to paste a reference work about the greek language in which that elijah passage was written and how it should have been translated.

It is true, that some of us –both of the laity and of the Clergy- have not observed with the appropriate attention the relative passage of the Old Testament, in which is mentioned the ascension of the Prophet Elijah.

If one studies this passage carefully, one will notice there is a tiny, 2-letter (Greek) word «ΩΣ» (=as if) , which will greatly facilitate their rationalizing, since the dogmatic aspect found in the Dedicational Hymn for this Saint is usually rejected by them, i.e. «The second Precursor to the Presence of Christ - Elijah the glorious…»

And here is the text of the event in question:

“Και εγένετο αυτών πορευομένων, επορεύοντο και ελάλουν (Ηλίας και Ελισσαιέ)· και ιδού άρμα πυρός και ίπποι πυρός και διέστειλεν ανά μέσον αμφοτέρων και ανελήφθη Ηλιού εν συσσεισμώ ΩΣ εις τον ουρανόν”

 (And it came to be, while they were walking, as they walked and spoke (Elijah and Elisha), behold, a chariot of fire and horses of  fire parted the two of them, and Elijah was swept up, in an upheaval, AS IF into the heavens)  (Kings  4, 1:11).

The expression «AS IF into the heavens» is clear evidence that he did not actually ascend INTO heaven.  However, many people have been misled and have incorrectly interpreted this text, because they have read a paraphrased Old Testament text, and not the actual text.  The paraphrased text says: “and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven”, proof that this little word «ΩΣ» carries the potential to solve the issue and to prove that Elijah did not go up, into heaven.

Elijahs chariot was said to have been taken into heaven, aside from d reference work I posted earlier, the hebrew word translated as heaven has also been translated skies, clouds. The bible mentioned birds of the heaven and of course we know the heaven there is just skies. Then th planetary bodies have also been called heavens in so many places.

Then let me talk a bit about the letter of Elijah.
Before Elijah was taken by God, almost all the prophets knew that Elijah would soon be gone. They kept pestering Elisha about it. But he did not know where or how he would be taken, that was why he insisted on following Elijah thruout.
Now when he was taken he saw Elijah been taken into the skies until he could see him no more, the sons of the prophet also knew he had been taken by God thru the skies, but they said they would go and search for him in case he was dropped off on some montain or a remote (2kings 2v16)area and retrieve him. Elisha saw no need for that, the prophets knew he was taken but did not believe he was taken to heaven.
It was simply a change of leadership, Elijah had served faithfully and it was time for a young and enrgetic man to take over.
Then let's look at the chronology of events as it relates to the letter.
Elijah was taken at the end of Ahaziahs reign soon after Jehoram1 his son took ova. WhenJehoshaphat and Jehoram1 wanted to go to war and they asked which prophet was in isreal, it was Elisha that was mentioned. So by now Elijah had been taken. But Years later in the fifth year of Jehoram1,Jehoram2 the son of Jehoshaphat started to rule 2kings 8v16, and he killed off his brothers and kept doing whjat was bad in Gods eyes, it was these bad things that he did after taking over from his Good father Jehoshaphat that Elijah who has been taken many many years ago wrote to him about. Studying the chain of events would see clealy that the letter of Elijah to this king Jehoram2 happened several yrs after his leaving Elisha.
Philip and other people have also been caught by the spirt and taken elsewhere too.

I've being following this discussion somewhat anonymously from page one,and i must say that i've learnt a great deal from the points of the two parties.It's simply amazing how much truths that can be gleaned from the word of God,when someone searches for it open-mindedly.That's why i must commend Frosbel,Truthislight ,Rabzy &co,for doing a great job in defending their stance convincingly.You see brethren,God gave us brain/knowledge for us to actually use it.Infact he charges us to be ''as wise as the serpent'',and at other point in the bible,he told us to ''test all spirits''.we shouldn't just swallow anything we're told hook,line and sinker just because it's a popular notion,or because of Religion Dogmas.we should learn to seek God individually,with the simplicity of our hearts,and unbias,for indeed it's a personal race.Finally,consider the words of the master himself,''And no one has ever gone up to heaven except the son of Man,who came down from heaven''.-John 3:13. And also these,concerning the love of God,''would any of you who are fathers give your son a stone when he asks for bread?10.Or would you give him a snake when he asks for a fish?11.Bad as you are,you know how to give good things to your children.How much more,then,will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him!''-Mt 7:9-11. Ask yourself brethren,whose report you should believe.Peace.

michelz: I've being following this discussion somewhat anonymously from page one,and i must say that i've learnt a great deal from the points of the two parties.It's simply amazing how much truths that can be gleaned from the word of God,when someone searches for it open-mindedly.That's why i must commend Frosbel,Truthislight ,Rabzy &co,for doing a great job in defending their stance convincingly.You see brethren,God gave us brain/knowledge for us to actually use it.Infact he charges us to be ''as wise as the serpent'',and at other point in the bible,he told us to ''test all spirits''.we shouldn't just swallow anything we're told hook,line and sinker just because it's a popular notion,or because of Religion Dogmas.we should learn to seek God individually,with the simplicity of our hearts,and unbias,for indeed it's a personal race.Finally,consider the words of the master himself,''And no one has ever gone up to heaven except the son of Man,who came down from heaven''.-John 3:13. And also these,concerning the love of God,''would any of you who are fathers give your son a stone when he asks for bread?10.Or would you give him a snake when he asks for a fish?11.Bad as you are,you know how to give good things to your children.How much more,then,will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him!''-Mt 7:9-11. Ask yourself brethren,whose report you should believe.Peace.

If you can believe the words of Jesus in John 3;13 and Matthew 7:9-11 that you quoted wholeheartedly then you dont have any reason not to believe the words of Jesus below except you are not being honest with your believe.-


Mark 9:43
43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [44] [b] 45 And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46] [c] 47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where

“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’[d]

Also matthew5:22

22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Matthew 18;9

9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Luke 16:19-31

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Rabzy i couldnt find the hebrew word translated "as if" in that verse. can u point it out in a transliterated form?

The text quoted is a greek text. It is claimed that ΩΣ, 'as if'was in d original greek text but was omitted when translating into english.

The phrase appeared towards the end of the third line in that greek text.

transliterate the word let me search for it cos i cant find it in an interlinear.

alexleo:

That's your own view as a human being. It doesn't change anything and won't influence whatever God's plan for his judgment is.

And Gods plan for his judgement is? To roast us in a lake of fire? Your opinion? SMH.

Bear with me brethren. . .I didn't read all the posts. But trust me, I know what's going on here.

I hope this helps to answer so many questions.

I especially DONOT talk so much on this topic of HELL. But however, it would be wrong of me if I see brethren mistaken it and keep my cool.

Here is it:

In the Bible, the revelation is progressive. The further you go, the more advanced the revelation is.

Here's what I mean.

In Genesis, NOBODY knew God name by the name "Jehovah," but "Almighty God (El-Shaddai)".

In Exodus 6:3, God introduced Himself to Moses as "Jehovah". Highlighting to him that, "Moses, you're the 1st I'm telling this"

So, if someone were to study and stopped at Genesis, the person won't know God as "Jehovah" but "El-Shaddai"

The advancement continues. When Jesus came, He introduced God to us as "Father," showing us that God NOT only wants to be a Master (Lord) over us but wants to establish a Father and son relationship with us. Matthew 6:9.

If you didn't study to this point, you won't know this.

So it is with many Bible topics.

Taking for example, the Afterlife, as it concerns our discussion here. . . In the OT, based on the Revelations Available to them, all they knew was that the DEAD remains in their graves in a state of unconsciousness. As you can see throughout the OT. Ecclesiastes 9:10.

When Jesus came, He advanced the Revelation. Jesus was the 1st person to reveal to us that the dead (both righteous and wicked) do not remain in their graves. But, there's a place each group goes. As we can see in the STORY of Lazarus and the rich man Luke 16:19-24.

Notice: That is not a Parable as many confuse it. It is a STORY. Because parables doesn't contain specific names.

In Jesus' story, He revealed to us that the wicked goes to Hell (where fire burns them) while the Righteous goes to a Place which He called Abraham's Bosom to be comforted.

One thing about these two places is that, it's actually one place separated by a GULF as a wall will separate two rooms from one another.

That is where they were until Jesus died. In 1Peter 3:19-20 the Bible tells us that Jesus went preaching the Gospel to the WICKED who died during Noah's Generation. At where? That was in HELL! That was when He 'descended into the pit'.

After this activity, Jesus brought all the saints up with Him from Abraham's Bosom at His resurrection. Matthew 27:52-53.

At this Point, The Isaiah 5:14 prophecy was fulfilled. Because, when Jesus took the saints up with Him from Abraham's Bosom, Abraham's Bosom ceased to exist and Hell enlarged and dominated the whole territory.

Is HELL the Final Abode of the Wicked?

Apparently, No!

Because that HELL and it's occupants shall be casted into the Lake of Fire. Revelations 20:13-15.

Many have said this place is NOT a place of Eternal Torments but NO, THE BIBLE DESCRIBES A PLACE OF ETERNAL TORMENT.

Revelations 14:11, 19:1-3 tells us that the smoke of their torment went up for ever and ever.

Like I said, I do not like to discuss so much on this. How about we discuss something Gospel?

Talking about John 3:13; it shouldn't be confusing at all.

Let's see what Jesus meant:

Considering the context of Verse 13, taking it from verse 10. Jesus was talking about Himself as Testifying what He has seen (on the Earth). Which they also should have seen and therefore, NOT marvel at/disbelieve His teachings.

However, He was surprised that they marvelled at/disbelieved His testimony even tho' He was yet testifying about what should be obvious to them.

Here's where verse 13 comes in.

In line with that, He said, "If I testify earthly things to you (which you already should know) and you don't believe me; how much more will you disbelieve me if I tell you about HEAVENLY things? Considering the Fact that, 'no man has ever gone to Heaven and returned to tell you these things. But Himself has come down from heaven and has a LIVE Testimony of it'"

Here are the Verses:

"I assure you, we tell you what we know and have seen, and yet you won't believe our testimony. But if you don't believe me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things? No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven." (John 3:11-13 NLT).

Because the people were yet weak and carnal, they couldn't take HEAVENLY Testimonies. That's why Jesus had to keep some until the Time comes when they shall be able to bear/take it. John 16:12-13.

So, Jesus was NOT disputing that Elijah was taken up to Heaven. 2Kings 2:11.

Now, even tho' Elijah came back as John the Baptist (Matthew 11:12-15), he was without memory. He didn't have the memory of his past life therefore, he didn't know he was Elijah. John 1:19-21.

In studying the Bible, understand the context of every verse. That'll help you understand the true meaning of that verse.

iSpirit1:
Bear with me brethren. . .I didn't read all the posts. But trust me, I know what's going on here.

I hope this helps to answer so many questions.

I especially DONOT talk so much on this topic of HELL. But however, it would be wrong of me if I see brethren mistaken it and keep my cool.

Here is it:

In the Bible, the revelation is progressive. The further you go, the more advanced the revelation is.

Here's what I mean.

In Genesis, NOBODY knew God name by the name "Jehovah," but "Almighty God (El-Shaddai)".

In Exodus 6:3, God introduced Himself to Moses as "Jehovah". Highlighting to him that, "Moses, you're the 1st I'm telling this"

So, if someone were to study and stopped at Genesis, the person won't know God as "Jehovah" but "El-Shaddai"

The advancement continues. When Jesus came, He introduced God to us as "Father," showing us that God NOT only wants to be a Master (Lord) over us but wants to establish a Father and son relationship with us. Matthew 6:9.

If you didn't study to this point, you won't know this.

So it is with many Bible topics.

Taking for example, the Afterlife, as it concerns our discussion here. . . In the OT, based on the Revelations Available to them, all they knew was that the DEAD remains in their graves in a state of unconsciousness. As you can see throughout the OT. Ecclesiastes 9:10.

When Jesus came, He advanced the Revelation. Jesus was the 1st person to reveal to us that the dead (both righteous and wicked) do not remain in their graves. But, there's a place each group goes. As we can see in the STORY of Lazarus and the rich man Luke 16:19-24.

Notice: That is not a Parable as many confuse it. It is a STORY. Because parables doesn't contain specific names.

In Jesus' story, He revealed to us that the wicked goes to Hell (where fire burns them) while the Righteous goes to a Place which He called Abraham's Bosom to be comforted.

One thing about these two places is that, it's actually one place separated by a GULF as a wall will separate two rooms from one another.

That is where they were until Jesus died. In 1Peter 3:19-20 the Bible tells us that Jesus went preaching the Gospel to the WICKED who died during Noah's Generation. At where? That was in HELL! That was when He 'descended into the pit'.

After this activity, Jesus brought all the saints up with Him from Abraham's Bosom at His resurrection. Matthew 27:52-53.

At this Point, The Isaiah 5:14 prophecy was fulfilled. Because, when Jesus took the saints up with Him from Abraham's Bosom, Abraham's Bosom ceased to exist and Hell enlarged and dominated the whole territory.

Is HELL the Final Abode of the Wicked?

Apparently, No!

Because that HELL and it's occupants shall be casted into the Lake of Fire. Revelations 20:13-15.

Many have said this place is NOT a place of Eternal Torments but NO, THE BIBLE DESCRIBES A PLACE OF ETERNAL TORMENT.

Revelations 14:11, 19:1-3 tells us that the smoke of their torment went up for ever and ever.

Like I said, I do not like to discuss so much on this. How about we discuss something Gospel?

You keep speaking into the Bible, refusing to allow the Bible msg to stand out.


You will lyingly want us to believe it is not a Parable, the rich man and Lazarus.

Yes Na, in your deceitful mind, a drop of water can travel all the way from heaven down to earth without evaporating and to quench your test in Hell.

Yes, it is Abraham that will reward you with everlasting life and not Yahweh. Since it is Abraham that has that responsibility in that your imagined story.

The Bosom of Abraham is the reward you will ever get for all eternity since you believe it is the reward for you.

Yes o. when you are in that your "heaven", You will have to see your love ones being tormented in that your Hell for all eternity.

The above are simply your wishes, May it be your reward since you propagate them as the facts.

Peace.

iSpirit1:
Talking about John 3:13; it shouldn't be confusing at all.

Let's see what Jesus meant:

Considering the context of Verse 13, taking it from verse 10. Jesus was talking about Himself as Testifying what He has seen (on the Earth). Which they also should have seen and therefore, NOT marvel at/disbelieve His teachings.

However, He was surprised that they marvelled at/disbelieved His testimony even tho' He was yet testifying about what should be obvious to them.

Here's where verse 13 comes in.

In line with that, He said, "If I testify earthly things to you (which you already should know) and you don't believe me; how much more will you disbelieve me if I tell you about HEAVENLY things? Considering the Fact that, 'no man has ever gone to Heaven and returned to tell you these things. But Himself has come down from heaven and has a LIVE Testimony of it'"

Here are the Verses:

"I assure you, we tell you what we know and have seen, and yet you won't believe our testimony. But if you don't believe me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things? No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven." (John 3:11-13 NLT).

Because the people were yet weak and carnal, they couldn't take HEAVENLY Testimonies. That's why Jesus had to keep some until the Time comes when they shall be able to bear/take it. John 16:12-13.

So, Jesus was NOT disputing that Elijah was taken up to Heaven. 2Kings 2:11.

Now, even tho' Elijah came back as John the Baptist (Matthew 11:12-15), he was without memory. He didn't have the memory of his past life therefore, he didn't know he was Elijah. John 1:19-21.

In studying the Bible, understand the context of every verse. That'll help you understand the true meaning of that verse.

Sharaap!

Stop lying.

At John 3:13 Jesus clearly said that no man has ascended into heaven.

John3:13


13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
.............................................

All Those rubbish you posted above, talking into the scriptures is not welcome here, take it to your church and feed it to your Sheeples.

Stop twisting the scriptures here!

No one need your twist and turn preaching.

the Bible can defend itself with what is contained therein.

no one should speak into the scriptures. no one is indispensable, what happens when that person dies?

I keep wondering how a man that cannot turn the color of his hair from black to white nor can he reward himself with everlasting life let alone another person, would be allowed to spin the word of God.

Such a man will twist the word of Yahweh to which ever way he wishes and people will keep quiet. SMH.

Abeg, take it to the churches, where people don't Read their Bible neither do they love the truth.