olire: frosbel, but we all know abt the parable of lazarus and the rich man.luke 16:19-31. The rich man was burning in hell in a part it says "the time came when the beggar died and angels carried him to abraham's side.the rich man also died and was buried. In hades where he was in torment, he looked up and saw abraham faraway with lazarus by his side. And he called to him "father abraham have mercy on me and ssend lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water to cool my tongue because i am in agony IN THIS FIRE". Expantiate

see:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." (John 3:13).
........................................................

So, they did not go to heaven.

And Satan is not in torment, let alone a "certain rich man" being there:

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" (1 Peter 5:8 )
..............................

Satan ^ is still roving(walking) about.

It is called a "parable", go, find out the meaning of the parable.

Peace

truthislight:

see:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." (John 3:13).
........................................................

So, they did not go to heaven.

And Satan is not in torment, let alone a "certain rich man" being there.

It is called a "parable", go, find out the meaning of the parable.

Peace

see dem as dem dey lie against Jesus.

Bidam: Did you really comprehend my post ..as simple as it looks..it is loaded with scriptures..Go back and study your bible my brother.

you mean invicible scriptures? Smh

Bidam: see dem as dem dey lie against Jesus.

prove it to be a lie

truthislight:

see:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." (John 3:13).
........................................................

So, they did not go to heaven.

And Satan is not in torment, let alone a "certain rich man" being there.

It is called a "parable", go, find out the meaning of the parable.

Peace

it is a pity that many take this story literary, bros that story never happened thanks and God bless.

Bidam: see dem as dem dey lie against Jesus.

are you talking to me?

truthislight:



are you talking to me?

ofcos you will always support what watch tower tells you so am not surprised.

Bidam: ofcos you will always support what watch tower tells you so am not surprised.

Are you talking to me?

Bidam: see dem as dem dey lie against Jesus.

Lying because of the fear of God's punishment which he also made an escape route. Rather than teach the escape route they prefer to water the punishment down as if their words will change anything at the end of the day.

One thing is common with the institutionalized church followers , they do not rightly divide the word of truth, instead they rehash the doctrines of their churches without obeying the very important scriptural injunction to test all things.

"But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;" - 1 Thessalonians 5:21

How can these members of the institutionalized church examine carefully doctrines , when they are bound to the traditions of MEN.

Eternal torment remains irrespective of your screaming and shouting , a doctrine from hell and of demons, and has zilch to do with God.

God was the angel of death that killed the first sons of the Egypt..if you are not righteous before him , you are condemned. No emotions for the unrighteous. This is the same God that made is only son go through so much agony for the propitiation of your sin and my sin. If you can't believe that, you should be ready for anything that comes after.

^^^^

I do not do emotional debates, if there is no scriptural backing for a position , it MUST be discarded !

shdemidemi: God was the angel of death that killed the first sons of the Egypt..if you are not righteous before him , you are condemned. No emotions for the unrighteous. This is the same God that made is only son go through so much agony for the propitiation of your sin and my sin. If you can't believe that, you should be ready for anything that comes after.

Besides, where on earth did you get this weird and outright crazy idea that God was the angel of death ? You guys need to slow down and think , maybe take a break and perform further study.

frosbel:

Besides, where on earth did you get this weird and outright crazy idea that God was the angel of death ? You guys need to slow down and think , maybe take a break and perform further study.

Lol...ok see it here
12 “For I will pass through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

shdemidemi:
Lol...ok see it here
12 “For I will pass through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

You said God was the angel of death in this context, this is what I want proven

frosbel:

You said God was the angel of death in this context, this is what I want proven

When the Bible say God did something, most times He does it through angels..there are angels for communication , war, death. Just as He did with the Assyrians-

35 And it came to pass on a certain night that the angel of the LORD went out, and killed in the camp of the Assyrians one hundred and eighty-five thousand; and when people arose early in the morning, there were the corpses—all dead.

shdemidemi:
When the Bible say God did something, most times He does it through angels..there are angels for communication , war, death. Just as He did with the Assyrians-

35 And it came to pass on a certain night that the angel of the LORD went out, and killed in the camp of the Assyrians one hundred and eighty-five thousand; and when people arose early in the morning, there were the corpses—all dead.

actually I took my own advice and did the research, my conclusion is either God or an angel he sent carried out this sentence. You are right on this count, thanks for the enlightenment , I humbly accept your correction.

However this does not buttress your overall contribution to this topic.

God will destroy sinners not torment them for eons, the bible does not support this fallacy.

Do you gys know that hardly would you find a christian that loves God in nigeria.

frosbel:

actually I took my own advice and did the research, my conclusion is either God or an angel he sent carried out this sentence. You are right on this count, thanks for the enlightenment , I humbly accept your correction.

However this does not buttress your overall contribution to this topic.

God will destroy sinners not torment them for eons, the bible does not support this fallacy.

Cool.. I don't know much about this topic, all I know is this --

and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

shdemidemi:

Cool.. I don't know much about this topic, all I know is this --

and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Therein lies the answer as per bolded.

frosbel: ^^^

Thanks for your response.

The lake of fire is not for eternal torment but for eternal destruction, read 2 Peter 3:7. It is no small matter to stand before Jesus Christ and then to be judged and hear the words 'depart from me into everlasting fire '. To know that one will be punished and destroyed with no hope of redemption or salvation , especially knowing that there was ample opportunity to lay hold of eternal life , will be very horrible to contemplate.

Let me ask you a question, can God punish the wicked for their crimes with ten times worse tortures than these wretches imposed on their victims, not for a short period but for eternity ? What does that make God out to be ? Torturing sinners for their wicked and evil ways with endless agony and suffering, be honest , does this not sound more like a malignment of God's character from the father of all lies ?

God has no purpose to keep an everlasting Auswitch , he will simply rid this world of all evil and make it new again.

scriptures contradct u seriously.
Ur opinions ar irrelevant, support ur stance wth scriptures and Keep it in context (Rightly divide d word of Truth)

frosbel:

actually I took my own advice and did the research, my conclusion is either God or an angel he sent carried out this sentence. You are right on this count, thanks for the enlightenment , I humbly accept your correction.

However this does not buttress your overall contribution to this topic.

God will destroy sinners not torment them for eons, the bible does not support this fallacy.

That's the more reason why you need to be humble about this whole issue, since there is a real possibility that you may be more wrong than you think. Only a few hours ago, you're convinced that something somebody said was a crazy idea (which, btw, is the way you see others' opinion on this topic) only to acknowledge a little later that you're wrong. Oh, and that even took some extra resistance on your part, until you're forced to do some "research." And frankly, if you didn't know that elementary point from Scriptures (a popular portion of the Bible - plagues in Exodus), there is really a lot you need to learn. And making yourself an authority on people's eternal destiny is not a good place to start. A word is enough for the wise.

frosbel: One thing is common with the institutionalized church followers , they do not rightly divide the word of truth, instead they rehash the doctrines of their churches without obeying the very important scriptural injunction to test all things.

"But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;" - 1 Thessalonians 5:21

How can these members of the institutionalized church examine carefully doctrines , when they are bound to the traditions of MEN.

Eternal torment remains irrespective of your screaming and shouting , a doctrine from hell and of demons, and has zilch to do with God.

It is your own teaching that is from the pit of hell. Manufactured by satan himself to deceive you and the weak minds that will follow you. You can do all your shouting and screaming, it doesn't change anything.

kambo:

scriptures contradct u seriously.
Ur opinions ar irrelevant, support ur stance wth scriptures and Keep it in context (Rightly divide d word of Truth)

He believes he is the only one that rightly divides the word. Others are wrongly dividing it. I only pity the souls that will be deceived by this false message he is spreading.

nlMediator:

That's the more reason why you need to be humble about this whole issue, since there is a real possibility that you may be more wrong than you think. Only a few hours ago, you're convinced that something somebody said was a crazy idea (which, btw, is the way you see others' opinion on this topic) only to acknowledge a little later that you're wrong. Oh, and that even took some extra resistance on your part, until you're forced to do some "research." And frankly, if you didn't know that elementary point from Scriptures (a popular portion of the Bible - plagues in Exodus), there is really a lot you need to learn. And making yourself an authority on people's eternal destiny is not a good place to start. A word is enough for the wise.

That's a good advice you ve given him. His problem is pride which makes him feel he has known all the scriptures more than everyone. He feels he is an authority in the scripture while others must bow to his whatever scriptural research. He is just toying with people's eternal destiny. Well, on the judgement day each of us will give account of our messages and what a horrible end for anyone found guilty of preaching false doctrine. That's why we should be very careful in what we spread. May God help us.

@Alexleo

your lack of ability to prove frosbel wrong BIBLICALLY only shows that your views are strongly influenced by your denomination and not the word of God.

why didnt you answer my question far above?

alexleo:

That's a good advice you ve given him. His problem is pride which makes him feel he has known all the scriptures more than everyone. He feels he is an authority in the scripture while others must bow to his whatever scriptural research. He is just toying with people's eternal destiny. Well, on the judgement day each of us will give account of our messages and what a horrible end for anyone found guilty of preaching false doctrine. That's why we should be very careful in what we spread. May God help us.

for those of yu dissecting the poor guy, answer this question: why are you a christian; is it because of the love you have for God or the fear of hellfire?

olire: for those of yu dissecting the poor guy, answer this question: why are you a christian; is it because of the love you have for God or the fear of hellfire?

The greatest mistake any man can make is to come to God for the fear of hell when what makes you righteous is so simple- 'if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.'

See how easy it is to be saved minus all the rituals all the different church denominations try to add to the criteria of being saved.

nlMediator:

That's the more reason why you need to be humble about this whole issue, since there is a real possibility that you may be more wrong than you think.

, this is an issue that I have spent 'tons' of hours on, together with other honest brethren, going over scripture, articles , documents, historical creeds etc and testing their origin or spirit behind these points of view. I have not seen any other possibility but this one fact , that God is not in the torture business, though it is well known that this was one of the hobbies of the apostate roman church.

Besides, I waited for no more than a few minutes to accept that I could have been wrong , while on the other matter I have stuck to the truth for eons , no ?

Only a few hours ago, you're convinced that something somebody said was a crazy idea (which, btw, is the way you see others' opinion on this topic) only to acknowledge a little later that you're wrong. Oh, and that even took some extra resistance on your part, until you're forced to do some "research.

I am happy you accept I did some research as I am apt to these days, it's not enough to say yes when I am not 100% certain , especially when the idea does indeed sound a little bizarre as it did to me at the time.

" And frankly, if you didn't know that elementary point from Scriptures (a popular portion of the Bible - plagues in Exodus), there is really a lot you need to learn.

I am sure I will get to this part of the bible in the process of reviewing all my previous learnings, though the story is very common, the nitty gritty details still require further analysis, besides I have never claimed to be an authority on doctrine, I simply use the bible to support certain stand points especially those that are contrary to the creeds and dogams of the institulionaliused church.

And making yourself an authority on people's eternal destiny is not a good place to start. A word is enough for the wise.

Oh dear, this is getting serious, if you cannot do your research like the noble Bereans, you have yourself to blame.

I am sure a mark of pride is to refuse correction, don't you agree.

Who goes to heaven and who goes to hell?

nep2ra: Who goes to heaven and who goes to hell?

no one goes to Heaven and no one goes to Hell.


There are ONLY 2 destinies :


1. Restored Paradise or new heaven and new earth.

"But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth he has promised, a world filled with God's righteousness." - 2 Peter 3:13

"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind." - Isaiah 65:17

"Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth." - Matthew 5:5



2. Lake of fire and eternal destruction for the wicked.

"13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire." - Revelation 20:13-14

"And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed." - 2 Peter 3:7

"And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by will view them with utter horror."" - Isaiah 66:24

frosbel:


no one goes to Heaven and no one goes to Hell.


There are ONLY 2 destinies :


1. Restored Paradise or new heaven and new earth.

"But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth he has promised, a world filled with God's righteousness." - 2 Peter 3:13

"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind." - Isaiah 65:17

"Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth." - Matthew 5:5



2. Lake of fire and eternal destruction for the wicked.

"13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire." - Revelation 20:13-14

"And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed." - 2 Peter 3:7

"And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by will view them with utter horror."" - Isaiah 66:24

Thanks for your insightful answer frosbel.

I am sure other religions have something different to say on the final destination of man after his sojourn on earth.