There is so much good when someone find a person who calls his attention to his mistake and he who erred takes to correction...

And there is so much evil when he becomes adamant to the correction he is being given... Stubbornness no be beta thing oo, toor...

We learn from the story of iblees(Al-shaytaan) how he became the unfortunate one....

He had a lot of time to accept his error and follow Allaah's commandment of bowing to our father Adam(alayhi salatu wa salaam)....

قَالَ

Allaah said to iblees;

يَا إِبْلِيسُ مَا مَنَعَكَ أَن تَسْجُدَ لِمَا خَلَقْتُ بِيَدَيَّ

Oh iblees, what stopped you from prostrating to that which I have created with my two hands?

أَسْتَكْبَرْتَ أَمْ كُنتَ مِنَ الْعَالِينَ

Are you being arrogant or do you see yourself to be high?

Do you now see why I said he had time to make amends? Allaah was calling his attention to his mistake, what should shaytaan have done? If he had simply amended his mistake by saying

استغفرك واتوب اليك

I seek your forgiveness and I repent on to you...

That would've been all, he would've been forgiven, rather iblees la'natullaah alayhi(may the curse of Allaah be upon him) started his useless analysis....

قَالَ
Iblees said to Allaah;

أَنَا خَيْرٌ مِّنْهُ

I am better than him(Adam);

خَلَقْتَنِي مِن نَّارٍ وَخَلَقْتَهُ مِن طِينٍ

You created me from the fire and you created him from clay......

Subhanallaah, this is shaytaan the accursed, look at what he was saying, he was arrogant, and this is the exact act we have with us today, too much arrogance in us and we don't like admitting to MISTAKES, its not bad to make MISTAKES, everyone does.... But correct them when you noticed you've made a mistake....

Iblees was saying, he was created from flames of fire, and you know flames is usually at the top of a fire, while Adam was created from clay, and you know clay is found at the last part of the ground, so why should he now bow to Adam? That was his useless argument.....

So;

قَالَ

Allaah said to iblees

فَاخْرُجْ مِنْهَا

Get out from Paradise

فَإِنَّكَ رَجِيمٌ

For verily you are accursed!!

So being adamant is not a good thing fah, don't be Like the unfortunate one, shaytaan.....

Jazakallahu khyran.

I think friends have an important role to play in this. A good friend would admonish and advice you when you err. A person who is honest with himself will also accept admonishing by a friend.

snapscore:
Jazakallahu khyran.

I think friends have an important role to play in this. A good friend would admonish and advice you when you err.

No matter how good a friend is, there will be problem when the one who erred is the arrogant type....

Another thing is the way we respond shows if we want to take correction or not...

For instance, you made a mistake and your friend tells you, "you have made a mistake" and you are like "help point the mistake in what I've done now", that statement alone will scare to corrector...

AbdelKabir:


No matter how good a friend is, there will be problem when the one who erred is the arrogant type....

Another thing is the way we respond shows if we want to take correction or not...

For instance, you made a mistake and your friend tells you, "you have made a mistake" and you are like "help point the mistake in what I've done now", that statement alone will scare to corrector...

I don't see a reason why the person would be scared off because of that statement. It could be an innocent statement. Additionally, not everyone can be approached with 'you have made a mistake'. There are other ways that could be worded without making the other person defensive. Generally speaking people get defensive when criticized * I read that from a book on communication* So it important to look at the method the message is passed accross. Rather than say you have made a mistake, say something like. What do you think about the action you did? I just read that...... says that is not permissible. How about if you do this instesd of this. I read this ruling or hadith that talked about.... or simply share the thing and then talk about it.

Lastly does this admonishing refer only to the deen? Or are personal opinions and views included?
My friends know me better than to say you made a mistake EXCEPT it is regarding the deen and usually they will explain and provide their evidence.

snapscore:


I don't see a reason why the person would be scared off because of that statement. It could be an innocent statement. Additionally, not everyone can be approached with 'you have made a mistake'. There are other ways that could be worded without making the other person defensive. Generally speaking people get defensive when criticized * I read that from a book on communication* So it important to look at the method the message is passed accross. Rather than say you have made a mistake, say something like. What do you think about the action you did? I just read that...... says that is not permissible. How about if you do this instesd of this. I read this ruling or hadith that talked about.... or simply share the thing and then talk about it.

That was just an example...... It is because its in text form, that's why you don't see how it can scare the corrector.....

Lastly does this admonishing refer only to the deen? Or are personal opinions and views included?
My friends know me better than to say you made a mistake EXCEPT it is regarding the deen and usually they will explain and provide their evidence.

We are talking about the deen here....

AbdelKabir:


That was just an example...... It is because its in text form, that's why you don't see how it can scare the corrector.....

We are talking about the deen here....

ok. Thought as much. Well because I think it could have been an innocent statement that could have been misunderstood. Maybe they were sincierly asking. I also think it depends on the person. Regardless, theone correcting could be like... which one is help you point out ur mistake now or are angry. Afterall we all friends/brothers and we should look out for one and other. It would not be right for me to see something that could be harmful to you and not say anything. I also wouldn't like that you see me do something that is harmful and keep quiet abt it. Then proceed with the message.

I really don't think there is any reason to be scared off because sometimes people filter the message from the method of delivery. It is possible to accept the message and discard the way if was passed if it is seen as offensive. Also, it doesn't mean they are arrogant if they refuse to OPENLY accept the message. It is very possible to accept admonishment secretly in the heart and be upset outside.
For example you tell someone it is wrong to wear wigs. They were upset becaus of the way u approached them and were angry. Or they just didn't want to hear you at that time. You still passed ur message. They go home and reflect then take off the wigs. You see them another time without the wig and ask them about it. They were giving different excuses but deep in their heart they accepted your message.

* I just realized I misread what you wrote. I thought u were asking why I didnt see why it scared the corrector.

Anyways I hope there is benefit in what I wrote.

snapscore:
* I just realized I misread what you wrote. I thought u were asking why I didnt see why it scared the corrector.

Anyways I hope there is benefit in what I wrote.

Too much garri I guess.....lol..

snapscore:


ok. Thought as much. Well because I think it could have been an innocent statement that could have been misunderstood. Maybe they were sincierly asking. I also think it depends on the person. Regardless, theone correcting could be like... which one is help you point out ur mistake now or are angry. Afterall we all friends/brothers and we should look out for one and other. It would not be right for me to see something that could be harmful to you and not say anything. I also wouldn't like that you see me do something that is harmful and keep quiet abt it. Then proceed with the message.

OK....

I really don't think there is any reason to be scared off because sometimes people filter the message from the method of delivery. It is possible to accept the message and discard the way if was passed if it is seen as offensive. Also, it doesn't mean they are arrogant if they refuse to OPENLY accept the message. It is very possible to accept admonishment secretly in the heart and be upset outside.
For example you tell someone it is wrong to wear wigs. They were upset becaus of the way u approached them and were angry. Or they just didn't want to hear you at that time. You still passed ur message. They go home and reflect then take off the wigs. You see them another time without the wig and ask them about it. They were giving different excuses and deep in their heart they accepted your message.

I was about saying the emboldened is wrong until I saw you've modified and gave an example...

Just in case someone else misinterprets me.

I meant the person doesn't openly give u credit through their speech but they accepted your message through their actions. Basically the peraon doesn have to say ah boda Fulan you are right.

AbdelKabir:

Allaah said to iblees;
Oh iblees, what stopped you from prostrating to that which I have created with my two hands?

Did this verse (Qur'an 38 75) mention "two hands"?

shawl:


Did this verse (Qur'an 38 75) mention "two hands"?

It says َبِيَدَيّ and this is اضافة اسم المثنى الى ياء المتكلم and the اسم is مجرور because of the ب that preceeded it, so how do you translate that?

BTW I knew my translation won't go well with some set of people..... This is why I refrained from using translated work, rather, I translated it myself....and i deliberately translated it that way....

*Modified*

This is for ↓↓ that is deliberately misquoting me.... there is a difference between "my own interpretation" and "my own translation", the way he made it sound, as if I interpreted it my own way, whereas all i did was making clearer what the intended meaning is...

^

Yad - hand
Yadayn - two hands (not used in the verse)
Yadiy - hands (as used in the verse)

Thanks for admitting that "two hands" is not mentioned in the verse. Rather, that is your own deliberate translation based on your understanding of the arabic language.

So dear muslims beware! This is AbdelKabir's newly found translation for the ayat.

shawl:
^

Yad - hand
Yadayn - two hands (not used in the verse)
Yadiy - hands (as used in the verse)

[s]Thanks for admitting that "two hands" is not mentioned in the verse[/s]. Rather, that is your own deliberate translation based on your understanding of the arabic language.

So dear muslims beware! This is AbdelKabir's newly found translation for the ayat.

Lol, you should've just said you don't understand the Arabic language, yad is hand, yadaan and yadayn both means two hands, the first is in form of ar-raf'u(subject) while the second is in an-nasb/al-jarr(let me just say object case).....now what was used in the verse is yadayy not yadiy(as you said, this expose the fact that you can't read Arabic properly), yadayy was brought in possessive case, to mean "my..." Now since its possessive, the nun in yadayn will be erased, it remains, yaday, then since its for self possession, 'ya" will be added to yaday to be read as yadayy.....That's why it was brought as yadayy, which ordinarily should be be yadaay, but because of the harf jarr(baa) that preceded it, it became yadayy, turning it to jarr case.....

I wonder what you intend by trying to read yadayy as yadiy, you want to say Allaah has more than 2 hands?

I was avoiding that long explanation initially because people who don't know the language won't understand, that was why I jusy said, اضافة اسم المثنى الى ياء المتكلم

But it seems you don't understand that...

Let me call another who understands the language..... Cc: Udatso

Pls udatso how would you translate

يَا إِبْلِيسُ مَا مَنَعَكَ أَن تَسْجُدَ لِمَا خَلَقْتُ بِيَدَيَّ

Alhamdulillaah, I'm not the first to have translated it that way, here is a translation from the numerous translations;

Shakir: He said: O Iblis! what prevented you that you should do obeisance to him whom I created with My two hands? Are you proud or are you of the exalted ones?

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=38&verse=75

^

Be rest assured that I understand the particulars of that word, yad (hand), in arabic. So I am not gonna address your mocks or jibes.

Yad - hand

Yadayn - two hands (objective)
Yadani - possessive of yadayn

Yadiy - hands (objective)
Yadayya - possessive of yadiy

No where in the verse are the versions that indicate a specific numerical unit (yadayn or yadani) used in the verse.

Yadiy - hands (objective)
Yadayya - possessive of yadiy

Abuhammaad ewa ooo...

Arguing with one whose intent is falsehood will be a waste of my time, let's wait for another person who understands the language properly, one who studied it, not just learning by heart....

Perhaps you need to dust your books on arabic grammar again, particularly, mudaaf wa mudaaf ilayh...

Lol na wah

Anyway, let me get a jotter to drop notes from the lessons of you Sibawayh(s)

....

shawl:
^

Be rest assured that I understand the particulars of that word, yad (hand), in arabic. So I am not gonna address your mocks or jibes.

Yad - hand

Yadayn - two hands (objective)
Yadani - possessive of yadayn

Take it easy brother. Please get النحو الواضح . Read about مرفوعات منصوبات و مجرورات.
Yadani is marfu'

Yadiy - hands (objective)
Yadayya - possessive of yadiy

Do you understand Arabic?
Please how do you translate رأيته بعينيّ. If you can translate this correctly, then يد will be easier


Forget whatever difference you've had with abdulkebir and focus on what is at hand

^^ jazakallaahu khayr for your insight....."when I grow up I wish to be like you"

AbdelKabir:
^^ jazakallaahu khayr for your insight....."when I grow up I wish to be like you"

Subhanallah ya akh . Lol. Stil طالب العلم oooo.
May Allah continue to increase us in beneficial knowledge.

You can delight yourselves in whatever permutations you want but no amount of your gymnastics with arabic can show that "two" is mentioned in the verse. That is very important.

You cannot make your interpretation (which could be subjective) into a translation.

@udatso
How does replacing 'hand' with 'eye' prove your point?
"I saw him with my eyes"

shawl:
You can delight yourselves in whatever permutations you want but no amount of your gymnastics with arabic can show that "two" is mentioned in the verse. That is very important.

You cannot make your interpretation (which could be subjective) into a translation.

@udatso
How does replacing 'hand' with 'eye' prove your point?
"I saw him with my eyes"

In Arabic, and there are certain words that have thesame ahkam. Take for instance اجوف. و All اجوف واوي are treated in same manner. And يائ are also treated with their group. My reason for asking you the question was because عين و يد in the dual form in a possessive form are treated in similar manner.

As for your reply, you translated عينيّ as eyes. Unfortunately the plural جمع of عين isn't عين. So why did you translate it as such.

The most correct translation should be "I saw him with my two eyes" since we are dealing with dual plural.


e عين dual plural is عينان so when it is merged with a ضمير النصب والجو. و is and the اسم is مجرور it changed to عينيّ. I hope this helps


Please take note that I didn't say your translation is wrong since naturally can't have more than two eyes. But I just want you to know that translating as two eyes isn't wrong either

@Udatso, shawl probably knows all that, he is most likely an ashari, so he wants to mischievously say hands in the verse does not mean two hands, then after he has done that, he will go further to say hands in that verse does not literally mean hands that it means something else, but if he cannot establish that hands there does not mean two hands, then there is no way he can convince anyone that hands there does not literally mean hands.....

The only mistake he made was to assume the people he is dealing with are ignorant of the language.... If he had known, he would've just got ignored or use another strategy.....

I don't know why these guys have a problem with Allaah having hands.....Allaah have hands, what they look like? None of our business, he has hands and his hands are perfect, Period! It can't be compared to anyone's hands because "There is nothing like HIM(Allaah)"...

A simple analogy, We live, Allaah also live, does that mean the way we live can be compared to that of Allaah? A'udhubillaah.....Allaah's living is perfect.... The believers were promised to see Allaah in jannah, pls what does that imply?

WAllaahul musta'aan...

Shall respond l8r (inshaAllah)...busy week.

Cc: Sissie, Dominique...

udatso:

عين dual plural is عينان so when it is merged with a ضمير النصب والجو. و is and the اسم is مجرور it changed to عينيّ

This only deepens the possessiveness of the root word 'eye' or 'hand'. In fact, that is why some translators translate يَدَيَّ as "'own' hands" because of the deepening of the possessiveness of the root word.

Trying to establish "dual plural" from عينيّ or يَدَيَّ can lead to the mistake of preconceived defaults as the humans that we are. You see, our languages are shaped by these defaults. So when I say my hands, it is understood, based on these defaults for humans, that two hands are meant.

Things change immediately when the Being being addressed is Allah Almighty. Preconceived defaults don't apply to Him. Therefore they can not be employed in analysing words that relate to Him.

So a numerical value of "two" can only be deduced from the quoted verse only if we apply a preconceived default for humans to Allah. And this is not allowed because our knowledge can not encompass anything about Him. Quran 20 110.

Good to see the veiled acceptance in your last paragraph and AbdelKabir's refrainment from mentioning "two" in his later submission.

Did you also notice that of the seven translations linked to by AbdelKabir, only two give a notion of numbers? 2 is a minority out of 7. That means the majority of the scholars agree against deducing "two" from the verse.

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