BluntBoy:


Supposing Mary is the Queen of Angels, does that mean you have to bow down to her?

How does preplan elevate Mary to the status of a god?

But answer this question: Why do you bow down to images of Mary?

So, you now agree that Mary's birth was preplanned? Why were you lying initially that she was just a vessel? Would you preplan something to be picked and used at random like an ordinary, unimportant vessel? This is very bad.

Like I told you earlier, you are bound as a Christian to honour Mary the same way you will honour your earthly mother.

nairanaira12:


She didn't say "all generations shall remember me..."; she said "all generations shall call me....". They are two clearly different things. Why are you lying in the face of indelible truth, just because you want to win an argument? How does these resonses portray you as a true christian, swapping "call" with "remember" when you know that they are clearly different?

As expected, all you have in form of a response is human knowledge and what you think. This is bad. Your comments show how truly empty you pentecostals are in the face of biblical truth.

What more blessing could it have been to always be remembered as the one who gave birth to the savior. I never tried to substitute remember for blessed

Blessed are the poor... Does it mean the poor are more special human beings?

nairanaira12:


So, you now agree that Mary's birth was preplanned? Why were you lying initially that she was just a vessel? Would you preplan something to be picked and used at random like an ordinary, unimportant vessel? This is very bad.

Like I told you earlier, you are bound as a Christian to honour Mary the same way you will honour your earthly mother.

Jeremiah was preplanned too. So, how does it make the prophet someone to bow down to?

BluntBoy:


Jeremiah was preplanned too. So, how does it make the prophet someone to bow down to?

Stop being unreasonable. You are just an obstinate fellow. Go back to the series of responses I've already given you and pick your answer to that question from there. I won't waste my time replying you anymore.

Its clear your motive is not to discover the truth, but to push what you feel is the truth down the throat of others.

nairanaira12:


So, you now agree that Mary's birth was preplanned? Why were you lying initially that she was just a vessel? Would you preplan something to be picked and used at random like an ordinary, unimportant vessel? This is very bad.

Like I told you earlier, you are bound as a Christian to honour Mary the same way you will honour your earthly mother.

Is your existence preplanned?

BluntBoy:


Is your existence preplanned?

Go back to my previous responses. You doing deserve further answers from me.

BluntBoy:


What more blessing could it have been to always be remembered as the one who gave birth to the savior. I never tried to substitute remember for blessed

Blessed are the poor... Does it mean the poor are more special human beings?

Looks like reason problem is one of your several problems. Read the comment you quoted again and ask yourself why you are quoting me wrongly.

nairanaira12:


Stop being unreasonable. You are just an obstinate fellow. Go back to the series of responses I've already given you and pick your answer to that question from there. I won't waste my time replying you anymore.

Its clear your motive is not to discover the truth, but to push what you feel is the truth down the throat of others.

Mr Man, keep your idolatry to yourself. You want to use preplan as a tool to push your argument in favour of your unbiblical act of bowing down to Mary and I decided to use that preplan to rubbish your point. Was Judas preplanned to betray Jesus?

nairanaira12:


Looks like reason problem is one of your several problems. Read the comment you quoted again and ask yourself why you are quoting me wrongly.

Insult will not help you

How does Mary's confirmation of joy at the prospect of giving birth to the savior elevate Mary to the status of a God that must be bowed down to?

Mother i love u forgive those who blasphem thee

nairanaira12, according to you, Mary was preplanned and that elevates her beyond being a vessel.

Was Judas preplanned? Think before answering this question or you may just end up shooting yourself in the foot.

Waste of time and manpower

Emperor002:
Mother i love u forgive those who blasphem thee

Mary is dead, bro. She can't forgive sins. Only Christ can.

Emperor002:
Mother i love u forgive those who blasphem thee

She has no power to forgive anybody. She is dead

NwaEzefuNaMba:



my friend stop being ignorantly stupi.d.

mary will not save you....keep fooling yourself

Emperor002:
Mother i love u forgive those who blasphem thee

Mary cannot forgive sin.....thats blasphemy too

If respecting and honouring the MOTHER of JESUS is a sin then respecting and honouring or bowing down to greet your mother is a sin. If the MOTHER of JESUS is a vessel then your mother is a vessel in your father's house. If honouring MARY is Idolatry then honouring your mother is idolatry. How can someone call your mother a vessel but come to you for help? You call the MOTHER of JESUS a vessel and honouring her as Idolatry but you call JESUS CHRIST to save you. When you see the wife of your pastor you bow down to greet her but you cannot respect and honour the MOTHER of JESUS. If bowing to greet MARY is Idolatry then calling your pastors wife MUMMY and bowing to greet her is idolatry too. Nigerians claimed to be too religious yet they are the worse people on earth. If you are not comfortable with Catholics honouring MARY go hang yourself because there is nothing you can do about it. Catholic for life.........AVE!!!!!!! MARIAE

Mpanyi:
I read 'worship idols' or something like that by a poster. If one can 'worship idols' and be like many catholics I know in business dealings unlike some Christians that flaunt 'holiness' 'grace' 'bible' and stuff like that in one's face but prove to be another thing entirely when it comes to business dealings, Nigeria will be better for it. Meanwhile Catholics claim with their blood they don't worship Mary however people are entitled to their opinions as long as they don't fight.

depends on what one defines worship as. The implicit meaning of worship is the Latria (Worship given to God alone). However there are other types of worship:

Dulia - for Saints
Hyperdulia - for Mary

Dulia and Hyperdulia are loosely called Honor or reverence in english

Bowing does not necessarily mean Latria as we bow to our parents.

the real issue for Non-catholics is bowing to an Image/statue. Therein lies the problem with the catholic understanding of symbolism. indeed all humans have an element of symbolic reverence but we can say catholics take it much further.

from someone who attends the catholic church but not a catholic

Sirheny007:


Dont expose your ignorance my fren.
We honor Mary.
Anybody that says he/she worships her is a fool

doctrinally the Catholic church does not accord Mary worship, but some people already idolise her without knowing. A Catholic once used an analogy comparing Mary's glory with her Son using the word "nearly". I had to ask him if one could compare a finite, no matter how large, with an infinite.

Mary's Glory becomes negligible (--> zero) when compared with our Lord. This is Church teaching

BluntBoy:


So how does it make sense if you say the woman was Mary?

It is more sensible if the woman symbolizes the Church and the persecution it would face. We are the Child.

You don't worship Mary? Then, how come you bow down to her image?

do you worship your parents when you bow to them?

bishop Elue . The bishop that baptized me when i was still a catholic . i still love the bishop . very meek n lowly soul

I love this trend......lol! Just today this topic has gotten more than 146 comment and over 9555 views under 12hrs..just because it concerns CATHOLIC yet they cannot bring the CHURCH down...........GLORY TO JESUS! HONOUR To MARY! Since you cannot beat them why not leave them? If you are not comfortable go embrace live wire or pluck out your eyes

monex:


do you worship your parents when you bow to them?

No, but if I erect an image of my parents and bow down to them, then I am an idolator. And God would not like that. The Bible was clear about what constituted idolatry.

And, Mary is not my mother, neither is she the mother of Christians. She was the earthly mother of Jesus the Christ. Not the mother of God. Jesus as God preceded Mary. Mary was a vessel in bringing Jesus the man into the world just as Judas was a vessel used in betraying Him into the hands of the enemies. Everyone was merely playing a role. At the end, the only thing that mattered was the huge sacrifice Jesus made.

BluntBoy:


No, but if I erect an image of my parents and bow down to them, then I am an idolator. And God would not like that. The Bible was clear about what constituted idolatry.

And, Mary is not my mother, neither is she the mother of Christians. She was the earthly mother of Jesus the Christ. Not the mother of God. Jesus as God preceded Mary. Mary was a vessel in bringing Jesus the man into the world just as Judas was a vessel in betraying him into the hands of the enemies. Everyone was merely playing a role. At the end, the whole thing that mattered was the huge sacrifice Jesus made.

so the issue is about an image. hence my previous post about Catholics taking the idea of Symbolic reverence to uncomfortable areas for most non-catholics.

I cannot argue with you about that. it took me time to be comfortable with bowing to a cross of Our Lord.

Hail Queen of Heaven...

Happy October 13th Apparition to all Marian Children..

BluntBoy:


No, but if I erect an image of my parents and bow down to them, then I am an idolator. And God would not like that. The Bible was clear about what constituted idolatry.

And, Mary is not my mother, neither is she the mother of Christians. She was the earthly mother of Jesus the Christ. Not the mother of God. Jesus as God preceded Mary. Mary was a vessel in bringing Jesus the man into the world just as Judas was a vessel in betraying him into the hands of the enemies. Everyone was merely playing a role. At the end, the only thing that mattered was the huge sacrifice Jesus made.

. No wonder you are bluntboy. So your mother is a vessel that was used to bring you into the world. The only thing that matters to you father is you not your mother. My brother don't because you want to win an argument start saying meaningless things.

BluntBoy:


I wrote: "What if... "

That should tell anyone that I have no idea myself. But to jump into the conclusion that the woman is Mary and must thus be bowed down to is plain ridiculous. Mary is dead, just like other mortals like Moses, Aaron and the Twelve Disciples. That God used her as a vessel does not mean she should be worshipped or honoured like a god. She was human. She only found favour and was used. God can use anyone. Even Cyrus, a pagan king was used by God. Wouldn't it be stupid for the Israelites to start bowing down to Cyrus?

And finally, these images you bow down to, how sure are you that they even bear any resemblance to whom you claim to honor?

That place in revelation said a child not children, we're r u getting thus heretic interpretation. Who gave birth to a child who will rule the world with a staff of authority...is it u or is it me...u guys lack understanding of scripture.

Many in her song of praise, under the inspiration of the holy spirit said all generations will call me blessed.....honoring Mary today is only a fulfilment of that declaration

monex:


so the issue is about an image. hence my previous post about Catholics taking the idea of Symbolic reverence to uncomfortable areas for most non-catholics.

I cannot argue with you about that. it took me time to be comfortable with bowing to a cross of Our Lord.

It is not just about the image. It is also about the idea that Mary should be honored because she was the earthly mother of Jesus. It is unbiblical. We all know she was the earthly mother of Jesus but then, we were never told that she should be this elevated, even in death. It is enough blessings that she would forever be remembered as the one who found such huge favour but it doesn't and can never make her an intercessor. Nowhere in the Bible does it say Mary has been resurrected and now sits at the right hand of God. Mary is dead. She can't hear your prayers.

freshboi88:


That place in revelation said a child not children, we're r u getting thus heretic interpretation. Who gave birth to a child who will rule the world with a staff of authority...is it u or is it me...u guys lack understanding of scripture.

Many in her song of praise, under the inspiration of the holy spirit said all generations will call me blessed.....honoring Mary today is only a fulfilment of that declaration

The poor were also called blessed. So, what is your point?

The woman in revelation could have been anything. Schools of thoughts are divided over Mary, the Church or the nations of Israel.

You are obviously very unfamiliar with symbolism. That Child was used does not mean it must mean a single entity.

IdisuleOurOwn:


We all know what will happen if it was the other way.

An Mbaise man not wanting an Anambra man to be Bishop in Mbaise land.

You are right. I have followed that scenario up till about two months ago when a priest from Mbaise serving abroad wrote a letter to Pope indirectly attacking an Arch Bishop (non ibo) appointed by Pope to make sure the decision of papacy is executed. He said the Anambra Bishop is not acceptable to his people

BluntBoy:


She was and is not the mother of God. She was the mother of the humanity of God. No one asks you to honor Mary. The Bible never asked us to. Jesus Himself never asked us to honor Mary. How many times did He even mention Mary?

One of the greatest mistake of Pentecostalism is to try to separate the divinity from the humanity of Christ while he was on earth. Jesus was fully GOD and fully MAN. United in the one person of Jesus are these two natures. In this sense, Mart is the mother of Jesus who is God so she is the Mother of God.
Thus, I echo what the Early church fathers in the year 431 at Ephesus declared: "according to his divinity, born of his Father before all ages, according to his humanity, born of the virgin Mary for us and for our salvation, a union was made of these two natures...in accord with this understanding of the unconfused union, we confess that the holy virgin is the Mother of God..."

There, you have seen it. As early as 431 the early church has already confessed to this truth.

Jesus gave his mother to the church and the church to his mother when he was on the pulpit of the cross. He said " behold your Mother". I don't know about you but I honour my Mother.

As to how many times Jesus mentioned Mary, I think that is besides the point. but so you should know, though the WRITERS mentioned Mary just few times, all of those times have great significant meaning.

Thank you brother.

BluntBoy:


It is not just about the image. It is also about the idea that Mary should be honored because she was the earthly mother of Jesus. It is unbiblical. We all know she was the earthly mother of Jesus but then, we were never told that she should be this elevated, even in death. It is enough blessings that she would forever be remembered as the one who found such huge favour but it doesn't and can never make her an intercessor. Nowhere in the Bible does it say Mary has been resurrected and now sits at the right hand of God. Mary is dead. She can't hear your prayers.

That now is the question of the doctrine of intercession. This one isnt about Mary but about all the saints.

Baba the real issues plenty and it is usually not about Mary