tintingz:


You're just being sentimental.

Each religion has thier dogmas and version of afterlife, Christian hell is different from Muslim hell and from Jewish hell, each God in these religions knows the occupants that will dwell in thier hell.

So you should know, Christian hell or jewsih hell is where you're going to(not my idea no offense).

you have a long way to go, buddy.

Empiree:
you have a long way to go, buddy.

It's better it goes a long way to know the truth than using Occam's Razor.

God-did-it crew, awon god of the gaps worshipper.

tintingz:
It's better it goes a long way to know the truth than using Occam's Razor.

God-did-it crew, awon god of the gaps worshipper.

but you not made sense. You only made up your mind to go against anything said to you. You confessed you know nothing about God. So what's the point of argument. According to you, there are many imaginary gods which you have been duly refuted but you stubbornly cling to it.

Empiree:
but you not made sense. You only made up your mind to go against anything said to you. You confessed you know nothing about God. So what's the point of argument. According to you, there are many imaginary gods which you have been duly refuted but you stubbornly cling to it.

The definition of God is on Google so what are you talking about?

Who refuted all other Gods? Even Leprechaun you dare not refute it, I challenge you to disprove the existence of Leprechaun or Santa.

tintingz:


Who refuted all other Gods? Even Leprechaun you dare not refute it, I challenge you to disprove the existence of Leprechaun or Santa.

You artwork a misguided, confused fellow. So Leprechaun and Santa are also gods.

You are a joke

tintingz:
The definition of God is on Google.

Even Google you cited recognizes God as the Only One Supreme Being who is Supreme Authority over all things.


You are a confused fellow

Empiree:
You artwork a misguided, confused fellow. So Leprechaun and Santa are also gods.

You are a joke

I said disprove their existence.

I believe Leprechaun and Santa are Gods that answer to people's wishes, can you disprove that?

Empiree:
Even Google you cited recognizes God as the Only One Supreme Being who is Supreme Authority over all things.


You are a confused fellow

Did you skip the "monotheistic religion" in the bracket?

Now combine each supreme God in every religion and beliefs.

tintingz:


Now combine each supreme God in every religion and beliefs.

you have problem. Serious one

You have displayed characteristics of a typical kafir. Since you believe there are multiple Gods who share Divinity, then, there is nothing else to talk about. At the same time, you don't believe in God you confused?.

Meanwhile Quran says this is Ankabut 45

tintingz:
I said disprove their existence.

I believe Leprechaun and Santa are Gods that answer to people's wishes, can you disprove that?

prayer ko, fitina ni

You sound confused or playing tricks?. You claim you don't believe in God but you believe in these trash that don't exist or at least creation of God, and you believe they answer prayers?. Shaytan is paying tricks with you indeed.

Empiree:
prayer ko, fitina ni

You sound confused or playing tricks?. You claim you don't believe in God but you believe in these trash that don't exist or at least creation of God, and you believe they answer prayers?. Shaytan is paying tricks with you indeed.

I believe in them, they are greater than your God, they give people gifts, fortunes etc, can you prove the bolded and stop the blasphemy and empty talk.

tintingz:


I believe in them, they are greater than your God, they give people gifts, fortunes etc, can you prove the bolded and stop the blasphemy and empty talk.

oh I see. In another word, you believe your god is that white guy and his white Irish dude who comes around every year to give gifts.

Fantastic!

tintingz:
Where?

Have you been to heaven before?

You have problem with multiple creators channelling thier energy to create these universe?

I have never been to heaven. It is impossible for multiple creators to create universe and earth and still maintain uniformity.

Any creator that will require the assistance of another creator in creating universe is not worthy of been a creator.

Empiree:
prayer ko, fitina ni

You sound confused or playing tricks?. You claim you don't believe in God but you believe in these trash that don't exist or at least creation of God, and you believe they answer prayers?. Shaytan is paying tricks with you indeed.

Where did I said I believe in these Gods?

And If i said so, I'm helping you with reductio ad absurdum argument.

bahaushe1:


I have never been to heaven. It is impossible for multiple creators to create universe and earth and still maintain uniformity.

Any creator that will require the assistance of another creator in creating universe is not worthy of been a creator.

Lol, your post here is funny and fallacious.

You mean there can't be multiple creators that share same ideas and come together to create everything? What's impossible in that? Are there no Device created by multiple inventors?

Even If it creates conflicts does that make them not creators or have the ability not to create?

Empiree:
oh I see. In another word, you believe your god is that white guy and his white Irish dude who comes around every year to give gifts.

Fantastic!

And what happens to that? At least these Gods help people with thier wishes, put smile on people.

I'm still interested in knowing how you will disprove the existence of these entities.

tintingz:
And what happens to that? At least these Gods help people with thier wishes, put smile on people.

I'm still interested in knowing how you will disprove the existence of these entities.

there is nothing to disprove. They are your gods and we see them come around once a year, riding on a horse, bentley, mercedes, Jeep or chariot. And after their festival is over, they take off their ceremonial garment and walk around like you and I. But unfortunately, these gods of yours are human being

Empiree:
there is nothing to disprove. They are your gods and we see them come around once a year, riding on a horse, bentley, mercedes, Jeep or chariot. And after their festival is over, they take off their ceremonial garment and walk around like you and I. But unfortunately, these gods of yours are human being

I'm not talking about humans wearing santa outfit to celebrate him, I'm not talking about Lord Santa Claus that ride on flying chariot!

He exist in the North Pole.

tintingz:
I'm not talking about humans wearing santa outfit to celebrate him, I'm not talking about Lord Santa Claus that ride on flying chariot!

He exist in the North Pole.

You have serious problems. Still makes no difference. He is human being that emerged from Europe. Was said to be Kris Kringle now Saint N. Santa claus who was born in what is now modern day Turkey. Hence, he can not be god but human. His story mainly evolved around what US tell people. He was said to be toymaker and married to a lady called Jessica Hence, he is nowhere close to Divine.

This simple descriptions of him does not in anyway close to being called God or Creator. But Allah describes Himself in surah Ikhlas "He is One, Self Sufficient, He has no wife, no children"


So, contrary to your statement that he lives in NP shows that, such "being" does not exist in real world. He could have been a mere priest, cardinal and so forth. You have no idea what you doing bro

tintingz:
Man reason with "time", intervene when "necessary", plan when to intervene etc, these are all bound/limited/eslave to these our time and space. Infact time is now superior than him because he can't do without it.

And this explains how man is limited to the computer?! By stating that time is superior?! Do you even read your response before posting?!

tintingz:

Can you prove there is something outside the universe?

That I have done, the fact that there is no reasonable explanation for the emergence of the universe and life other than finite causality!

tintingz:

Scientists imagine what they observe not santa or fairies!

The universe can be observed, this made scientists to imagine what could cause the universe resulting to different theories, anybody can imagine anything outside the universe be it unicorns flying around.

We know NOTHING what's outside the universe for now.

You are contradicting yourself, if they can observe it, then they don't need to imagine it! Where does the theories come from if not from imaginations?! Do you think big bang and dark matter are observable?! I guess these are scientists fairy tale right?!

We know nothing about what is outside the universe doesn't equate to there is nothing outside the universe scientifically speaking!

tintingz:

What energy does quantum vacuum contain and how does it link to Allah?

I never linked quantum vacuum or any energy to Allah, you said there is nothing outside the universe, and I presented an analogy to correct your folly, using quantum vacuum. Again, that scientist can't tell you what is outside the universe does not mean there is nothing, scientist in the past would have said they knew nothing about what is in a quantum vacuum decades ago, but now know that it isn't NOTHING!

tintingz:

A perfect all-knowing creator shouldn't modify his creation that he claim to be perfect, a perfect creator should know what his creation need e.g I wish humans could fly instead of using years to invent planes and spend money just to fly one.

Lol, you that didn't even know when you were born now wants to make demands (wishes)?! You had brought this silly argument before, which modifications are you talking about sef?! DID THE QUR'AN SAY ALLAH ASKED YOU TO GO FOR AN UPGRADE?! DID MAN NOT USE HIS BRAIN, EYES TO OBSERVE FLIGHT ANIMALS TO INVENT A PLANE?! IS THAT MODIFICATION OF A HUMAN TO YOU?!

tintingz:

Natural disasters is not needed, a perfect creator should know this.

Because you want to stay in this world forever right?! To you, this is the best you can get, but unfortunately for you, you age, you loose the capacity to enjoy anything once you reach old age, and then you die! Science cannot change that, your atheism doesn't it make it go away either! Whine all you want, you are still insignificant in the scheme of things!

tintingz:

If a computer is bound to time and the inventor is bound to time, please who is superior here? Time yes?

The question is, is man and the computer he invented the same even if they share similar characteristics?!

tintingz:

An almighty God shouldn't be controlled by time.

This is laughable, what does time do to God?! How is God being controlled by time?!

tintingz:

How many theories are yet to be fact about the universe?

Go and read about cyclic universe model.

You are the expert na, educate me please!

tintingz:

Do you still believe Allah is the only mysterious entity?

Go on YouTube or I help you with it.

I was only borrowing Richard Dawkins' statement, do you find fault in it?! I'll rather you post what you learnt from the youtube video, or is that too much to ask?!

tintingz:

The author origin requires where it comes from, how it came to be, it need to be questioned following the premise argument of something must cause something. Stop being irrational here, it's sickening!

A book can only come from a physical being of this our natural world or have you seen any book written by an invisible entity? Then I wonder why Allah didn't do that for the Quran.

Do you know what is sickening, having to read your half-baked arguments, coupled with inane and illogical analogies...

I am not disputing questioning where the author comes from, and whether it is a physical being or not, because they are irrelevant, you don't need answers to these questions before you know without doubt that a book has an author! The question still remains, would you deny the author because you do not know his/her origin?! Similarly, you do not need to be questioning the origin of the inventor of your phone before you know that it was invented, in this universe, what we know for sure is that something can never come from nothing! So the existence of the universe and life points to a creator. All the laws of physics, your DNA, the regulations of the weather, and so on, points to the fact that they came to be from something which is greater than the universe. Since you have stated above that science doesn't know what is outside the universe, I wonder why you are asking for the origin of what I say is outside of the universe?! Do you think same laws applies outside the universe?! Does the computer function like the biological systems of humans that created (invented) it?!

tintingz:
Lol, your post here is funny and fallacious.

You mean there can't be multiple creators that share same ideas and come together to create everything? What's impossible in that? Are there no Device created by multiple inventors?

Even If it creates conflicts does that make them not creators or have the ability not to create?

There is only one creator. He created all things other than Himself.

bahaushe1:


There is only one creator. He created all things other than Himself.

Flying spaghetti monster is the one creator!

RAmen.

sino:


And this explains how man is limited to the computer?! By stating that time is superior?! Do you even read your response before posting?!

You dont even understand your analogy.

Man and computer are already limited and bound to this universe because they contain matter and energy and also depends on time and space.

Now use this for God who is claim to be outside the universe.

That I have done, the fact that there is no reasonable explanation for the emergence of the universe and life other than finite causality!

There are many theories about the universe, we dont know yet if the universe has a beginning, infinite or has outside, keep your finite causality fallacy to yourself, its not a fact.

You are contradicting yourself, if they can observe it, then they don't need to imagine it! Where does the theories come from if not from imaginations?! Do you think big bang and dark matter are observable?! I guess these are scientists fairy tale right?!

Please how is gravity observe and measured, can you see gravity?

The universe can be calculated and measured, this is how theories were developed, this what we call observation in physics and cosmology.

We know nothing about what is outside the universe doesn't equate to there is nothing outside the universe scientifically speaking!

We know nothing about what is outside the universe yet is different from there is nothing outside, anything can be outside the universe be it flying unicorns or a giant teapot.

I never linked quantum vacuum or any energy to Allah, you said there is nothing outside the universe, and I presented an analogy to correct your folly, using quantum vacuum. Again, that scientist can't tell you what is outside the universe does not mean there is nothing, scientist in the past would have said they knew nothing about what is in a quantum vacuum decades ago, but now know that it isn't NOTHING!

A vacuum contains energy, it is linked to the universe, what then is outside?

Ok for argument sake, quantum vacuum is something with the lowest energy, how is it link to Allah or any God?

Lol, you that didn't even know when you were born now wants to make demands (wishes)?! You had brought this silly argument before, which modifications are you talking about sef?! DID THE QUR'AN SAY ALLAH ASKED YOU TO GO FOR AN UPGRADE?! DID MAN NOT USE HIS BRAIN, EYES TO OBSERVE FLIGHT ANIMALS TO INVENT A PLANE?! IS THAT MODIFICATION OF A HUMAN TO YOU?!

You dont get.

A powerful all knowing God should know the future, know what humans will need without us doing the solution.

# Divine Law : A powerful perfect all knowing God should know what will become of humans in the future before creation e.g This God should know the women feminine body will cause trouble to man, he should create humans in more perfect form instead of commanding the women folks to wear hijab for his mistakes, something like they are apologizing for being feminine.

Do humans like it when they spend money to take a flight or the risk in it, why cant an all knowing God give humans wings to fly?

Why does a perfect all knowing God killed homosexuals in Sodom and Gomorrah when he knows the future?

# Evolution: A perfect God should have created humans perfectly instead of modifying itself (evolution).

And at bolded it shows humans doesn't need a God for answers, that God is impotent.

Because you want to stay in this world forever right?! To you, this is the best you can get, but unfortunately for you, you age, you loose the capacity to enjoy anything once you reach old age, and then you die! Science cannot change that, your atheism doesn't it make it go away either! Whine all you want, you are still insignificant in the scheme of things!

So your God love it when innocent children die in the hands of natural disasters, even his pious worshipers that want to live long are killed by natural disasters, so why the hell does a God create natural disasters? Is he malevolent?

The question is, is man and the computer he invented the same even if they share similar characteristics?!

They are not same but they are bound to same thing, that makes man not all powerful, unlimited, perfect.

This is laughable, what does time do to God?! How is God being controlled by time?!

Lol, Why does Allah that you claim to be outside the universe more concern about a tiny dust earth and not only that, he took his time to be active in some deserted place in the ancient middle east to reveal some fairy books out of necessity because people are going astray. Is this God not controlled by time?

You are the expert na, educate me please!

Google is your friend

I was only borrowing Richard Dawkins' statement, do you find fault in it?! I'll rather you post what you learnt from the youtube video, or is that too much to ask?!

No fault in it, he reference his statement to a book by Lawrence Krauss a physicist, Dawkins said he is not a physicist.

Do you know what is sickening, having to read your half-baked arguments, coupled with inane and illogical analogies...

Were you not the one that gave this author and book analogy using the argument "something must cause something?" dont start red herring.

I am not disputing questioning where the author comes from, and whether it is a physical being or not, because they are irrelevant, you don't need answers to these questions before you know without doubt that a book has an author! The question still remains, would you deny the author because you do not know his/her origin?! Similarly, you do not need to be questioning the origin of the inventor of your phone before you know that it was invented, in this universe, what we know for sure is that something can never come from nothing! So the existence of the universe and life points to a creator. All the laws of physics, your DNA, the regulations of the weather, and so on, points to the fact that they came to be from something which is greater than the universe. Since you have stated above that science doesn't know what is outside the universe, I wonder why you are asking for the origin of what I say is outside of the universe?! Do you think same laws applies outside the universe?! Does the computer function like the biological systems of humans that created (invented) it?!

See your logic at bolded, you want to eat your cake and have it too. You are not disputing the questioning yet it is not relevant because you cant answer it, you are afraid this will destroy your God, you have already trap your God, dont worry.

Lol, i know who the inventor of iphone is and where he lived, his parents, family because i want to know about who invented this devise and even if i dont want to know about who this inventor is that does not negate the question of where he came from, we can simply see the answers on google, we already know he has a parent, he came from something, he learned computing. This is just the logic!

Everything in this universe contain matter and energy be it humans or the computer, if a God created this universe he must have matter and energy to do so. And the same laws applies that we don't know if there's any erntity like God/s, unicorns, fairies, aliens/UFOs(Extraterrestrial) outside the universe and same law that said something must cause something applies to them.

tintingz:
Empiree you see what I'm talking about.

Then who created Allah? Or you don't believe everything must have a creator?

The OP contradict your statement here, he claim "Ad Infinitum" is irrational and impossible then how come Allah is infinite? Allah must have had a beginning at a point in time.

The universe is still been studied, we don't know if the universe has a beginning or infinite or multiple (multiverse). The argument for Allah is also same for the universe.

You can see your statement here is relative, every religion believe thier God is the true God. If I see any person in other religions claiming his/her God is the true one, I will challenge the person.

Allah is the true God, this your claim, now prove it!

No, the OP argument is flawed, contradicting, sentimental and problematic.

# Allah created time and space, then he's stuck, bound and eslave to time and space just like we humans since he has matter and energy to do so.

# If Allah is before time and space and Nothing above him and before him then what domain is he in, he is confined outside time and space and also has nothing to do with this our natural world, he's Nothing to us!

# If Allah is infinite then it's problematic to what the OP said about "impossibility of Ad Infinitum" and secondly the Universe can also be infinite.

May Allahs curse be upon u, and remain unguided till u meet him. Double torment shall be urs, for u had d knowledge an deviate

emekaRaj:


May Allahs curse be upon u, and remain unguided till u meet him. Double torment shall be urs, for u had d knowledge an deviate

May Flying spaghetti monster have mercy on you and guide you.

Emipree, sino, Albaqir, sissie, Rashduct4luv, imam tbaba1234. is this how your fellow Muslim behave cursing and threats of an imaginary place using the Quran because the debate is diminishing your faiths. .

This dude can't stand to tolerate logic, he took it emotional.

tintingz:
May Flying spaghetti monster have mercy on you and guide you.

Emipree, sino, Albaqir, sissie, Rashduct4luv, imam tbaba1234. is this how your fellow Muslim behave cursing and threats of an imaginary place using the Quran because the debate is diminishing your faiths. .

This dude can't stand to tolerate logic, he took it emotional.

What's logic in those nonsense u are saying. U are going round an round everytime u are trapped. Repeating the same trash u memorized. The evidence, signs of God existence is in everything around us, if u can't see that, how are u rational? Only The ulul albab can comprehend

I didn't curse u, I only supported Allahs curse on u.
I pity the people that's still trying to save u wen u are all already doomed with curse.

tintingz:
You dont even understand your analogy.

Man and computer are already limited and bound to this universe because they contain matter and energy and also depends on time and space.

Now use this for God who is claim to be outside the universe.

You do not understand what an analogy is and how to apply them in explaining concepts and ideas, that is one of your problem, you are a one way traffic, very parochial in the use of your brain!

Man invented the computer, using materials already available to him, including his brain, but still, man is quite distinct from the computer, and it is absolutely ridiculous to compare man and the computer, using the processes and methods of the computer! Does the computer have consciousness? Is the computer a biological entity?! Mr. reason, what you put up there is talking about Z when I am talking about A. If you do not have the capacities to respond to my queries accordingly, don't bring up unrelated issues not relevant to the questions!

tintingz:

There are many theories about the universe, we dont know yet if the universe has a beginning, infinite or has outside, keep your finite causality fallacy to yourself, its not a fact.

No, let me correct you here, there are many speculations about the origin of the universe, a recent speculation is that the universe had no begining, putting previous speculations such as big bang, singularity, dark matter etc. into disarray!

“Or were they created by nothing? Or were they the creators (of themselves)? Or did they create heavens and earth? Rather, they are not certain.” (Quran 52:35-36)

You will always not know yet! Ignorance is bliss isn't it?!

tintingz:

Please how is gravity observe and measured, can you see gravity?

Gravity was observed and was empirically tested! Again, if it is observable, then it wouldn't be imagined! Your so called theories are based on imaginations, there is no observable or empirical evidence, just mere speculations and interesting imaginations of the human mind!

tintingz:

The universe can be calculated and measured, this is how theories were developed, this what we call observation in physics and cosmology.

Lol, "we"?! You are now a physicist and a cosmologist?! Wow! tell me what I don't know Why not tell me how dark matter was observed or the big bang?! Did you guys go back in time?! Oh sorry, there is a new theory on the block, the universe had no beginning! Based on what empirical evidence?! This is Ridiculousness!

tintingz:

We know nothing about what is outside the universe yet is different from there is nothing outside, anything can be outside the universe be it flying unicorns or a giant teapot.

Whatever you want to believe is none of my business, ignorance is bliss isn't it?!

tintingz:

A vacuum contains energy, it is linked to the universe, what then is outside?

Ok for argument sake, quantum vacuum is something with the lowest energy, how is it link to Allah or any God?

You were the one that claimed quantum vacuum is nothing, well science (physics) has proved that it can't be nothing, it is indeed something. So when next you want to claim that something is nothing, you should think twice. Allah (SWT) is the creator of the quantum vacuum, that is the link!

tintingz:

You dont get.

A powerful all knowing God should know the future, know what humans will need without us doing the solution.

# Divine Law : A powerful perfect all knowing God should know what will become of humans in the future before creation e.g This God should know the women feminine body will cause trouble to man, he should create humans in more perfect form instead of commanding the women folks to wear hijab for his mistakes, something like they are apologizing for being feminine.

Do humans like it when they spend money to take a flight or the risk in it, why cant an all knowing God give humans wings to fly?

Why does a perfect all knowing God killed homosexuals in Sodom and Gomorrah when he knows the future?

# Evolution: A perfect God should have created humans perfectly instead of modifying itself (evolution).

And at bolded it shows humans doesn't need a God for answers, that God is impotent.

So these are your problems that makes you deny your creator?! You want to fly right? Why not blame evolution that gave you the intelligence to build a plane rather than make you a bird?! Why not blame the evolution that made you have morals?! Why not blame evolution that made you know that a female and a male needs to copulate to reproduce and not same sex?! Who was directing these evolutionary trend?! You should be mad at evolution and not God, you don't believe in God, but you believe in evolution. Why would evolution make these "mistakes"?! Was it trying out what it thought was best for humans or was it just a gamble?! Why was there even evolution in the first place?! What was the purpose of evolution?! Why did evolution make you intelligent instead of being dumb like a goat?!

tintingz:

So your God love it when innocent children die in the hands of natural disasters, even his pious worshipers that want to live long are killed by natural disasters, so why the hell does a God create natural disasters? Is he malevolent?

They had to die because God has better plans for them, that is why there is paradise silly! To the religious people, this world is not the final abode, we are just passing through and we would be tested, so whatever happens, is part of the difficulties/test that we encounter on this journey. We know our purpose, we know where we are coming from and where we are going to, we know we did not just happen by randomness or came from nothingness!

tintingz:

They are not same but they are bound to same thing, that makes man not all powerful, unlimited, perfect.

I never claimed that man is unlimited, just wanted you to know that there are distinctions between the creator and the creation! They are not bound to the same thing, a computer requires electricity to function while man does not require such. Of course they are all bound to the laws of the physical world/universe because they both exist within this world and the universe! Allah/God is not within this universe, so Allah/God cannot be bound by the laws of this universe, He created these laws!

tintingz:

Lol, Why does Allah that you claim to be outside the universe more concern about a tiny dust earth and not only that, he took his time to be active in some deserted place in the ancient middle east to reveal some fairy books out of necessity because people are going astray. Is this God not controlled by time?

We are the only "intelligent" being on this planet and as far as science knows, this universe! Coincidence?! The Originator of all has the prerogative to communicate with us the way he wants, asking why makes you sound stupid, you don't even have a say with regards to when you were born or what will happen to you tomorrow, yet want to question why the messages were concentrated in ancient middle east?! God is the creator of time, he chooses when and where to reveal his messages.

tintingz:

Google is your friend

No, google is not my friend, we are not in good terms!

tintingz:

No fault in it, he reference his statement to a book by Lawrence Krauss a physicist, Dawkins said he is not a physicist.

Of course Dawkins is not a physicist, and evidently, giving characteristics to nothing makes you sound and look ridiculous!

tintingz:

Were you not the one that gave this author and book analogy using the argument "something must cause something?" dont start red herring.

See your logic at bolded, you want to eat your cake and have it too. You are not disputing the questioning yet it is not relevant because you cant answer it, you are afraid this will destroy your God, you have already trap your God, dont worry.

I had answered the question severally, God was not caused, God exist outside the universe, you can only observe the universe and the laws within it. You had also stated that science does not know what is outside the universe, so why are you adamant on knowing the cause before you believe?! Even scientist have made claims that laws of physics may not have been applicable at some point in the "beginning" of the universe...It is sheer stupidity to claim there is no creator of the observable intelligence within this universe because we do not know what caused the creator...

tintingz:

Lol, i know who the inventor of iphone is and where he lived, his parents, family because i want to know about who invented this devise and even if i dont want to know about who this inventor is that does not negate the question of where he came from, we can simply see the answers on google, we already know he has a parent, he came from something, he learned computing. This is just the logic!

Everything in this universe contain matter and energy be it humans or the computer, if a God created this universe he must have matter and energy to do so. And the same laws applies that we don't know if there's any erntity like God/s, unicorns, fairies, aliens/UFOs(Extraterrestrial) outside the universe and same law that said something must cause something applies to them.

But without google or knowing these people, you cannot deny that the Iphone was invented! Man is more than 1 billion times complex than the Iphone, so you say it had no designer?! Is that scientifically possible?! How?!

Same laws cannot apply to what is outside of the universe until you can prove it! Even here on earth, same laws does not apply the same way when you go out of earth, so why making statements you cannot prove?! I do not say God is nothing, I said God is distinct from his creation,just as the computer and Iphone is distinct from the humans that invented them! God is the source of everything, matter and energy! When you think/imagine how vast and overwhelming this universe is, then you can't help but know that the creator would definitely be greater!

emekaRaj:


What's logic in those nonsense u are saying. U are going round an round everytime u are trapped. Repeating the same trash u memorized. The evidence, signs of God existence is in everything around us, if u can't see that, how are u rational? Only The ulul albab can comprehend

I didn't curse u, I only supported Allahs curse on u.
I pity the people that's still trying to save u wen u are all already doomed with curse.

Is Natural disasters part of your Allah's sign? I guess his name was written on it.

Allah must be an angry emotional insecured entity to curse people living in a tiny dust earth in milky way galaxy. Take the Quran away and Muslim Allah doesn't exist!

tintingz:
Is Natural disasters part of your Allah's sign? I guess his name was written on it.

Allah must be an angry emotional insecured entity to curse people living in a tiny dust earth in milky way galaxy. Take the Quran away and Muslim Allah doesn't exist!

See why his invocation was appropriate?

The more you keep arguing for your God the more absurdity, ridiculous you turning your God into, I've told you before. It seem reductio ad absurdum is working on you.

sino:

You do not understand what an analogy is and how to apply them in explaining concepts and ideas, that is one of your problem, you are a one way traffic, very parochial in the use of your brain!

Man invented the computer, using materials already available to him, including his brain, but still, man is quite distinct from the computer, and it is absolutely ridiculous to compare man and the computer, using the processes and methods of the computer! Does the computer have consciousness? Is the computer a biological entity?! Mr. reason, what you put up there is talking about Z when I am talking about A. If you do not have the capacities to respond to my queries accordingly, don't bring up unrelated issues not relevant to the questions!

Energy can not be created nor destroyed, if God create energy then the law that said energy cannot be created is false, if God didn't create energy then where did he see material to create universe and what came up the material?

Humans and computer are distinct in characters but not distinct under the law of this universe, so if God share same law of the universe with humans then God is not different from every natural phenomenon.

The Pandeist believe God transform into the universe.

No, let me correct you here, there are many speculations about the origin of the universe, a recent speculation is that the universe had no begining, putting previous speculations such as big bang, singularity, dark matter etc. into disarray!

“Or were they created by nothing? Or were they the creators (of themselves)? Or did they create heavens and earth? Rather, they are not certain.” (Quran 52:35-36)

You will always not know yet! Ignorance is bliss isn't it?!

The universe having no beginning doesn't negate big bang there is something called gravitational singularity where a density is in infinite state before the big bang, big bang is not an explosion like bomb, don't imagine it that way, big bang is when the universe start expanding.

Gravity was observed and was empirically tested! Again, if it is observable, then it wouldn't be imagined! Your so called theories are based on imaginations, there is no observable or empirical evidence, just mere speculations and interesting imaginations of the human mind!

If the universe can't be observed how then it's been calculate and measured?

Or why does physicists and cosmologists are studying the universe if it can't be observed?

The earth is calculated to be 4.5 billion years old, were this scientists present when earth was form, how did they observe the age of the earth? Kindly know what theory means in science.

Lol, "we"?! You are now a physicist and a cosmologist?! Wow! tell me what I don't know Why not tell me how dark matter was observed or the big bang?! Did you guys go back in time?! Oh sorry, there is a new theory on the block, the universe had no beginning! Based on what empirical evidence?! This is Ridiculousness!

My "we" there means "we humans". SMH.

The sun, moon, stars, gas, energy, gravity, galaxy etc were measured and calculate to developed the theories about the cosmos.

I'm not even a physicist but I know this.

Whatever you want to believe is none of my business, ignorance is bliss isn't it?!

It's better to be agnostic to what you don't know than claiming some fairy tale in the holy book really happened.

You were the one that claimed quantum vacuum is nothing, well science (physics) has proved that it can't be nothing, it is indeed something. So when next you want to claim that something is nothing, you should think twice. Allah (SWT) is the creator of the quantum vacuum, that is the link!

Ok, quantum vacuum is something, so Allah's energy is in his lowest energy or zero-point-energy? Don't forget the law that said energy cannot be created and it's under the law of the universe.

And was Allah written on quantum vacuum, what happen to Brahma?

Your absurdity is getting worse.

So these are your problems that makes you deny your creator?! You want to fly right? Why not blame evolution that gave you the intelligence to build a plane rather than make you a bird?! Why not blame the evolution that made you have morals?! Why not blame evolution that made you know that a female and a male needs to copulate to reproduce and not same sex?! Who was directing these evolutionary trend?! You should be mad at evolution and not God, you don't believe in God, but you believe in evolution. Why would evolution make these "mistakes"?! Was it trying out what it thought was best for humans or was it just a gamble?! Why was there even evolution in the first place?! What was the purpose of evolution?! Why did evolution make you intelligent instead of being dumb like a goat?!

Evolution is not perfect and not a God, that's why it's call evolution, we developed, modify as times goes.

You see your absurdity? Why was there an evolution in the first place is a silly question as asking why did God use sand to create Adam or why did God created us in the first place.

They had to die because God has better plans for them, that is why there is paradise silly! To the religious people, this world is not the final abode, we are just passing through and we would be tested, so whatever happens, is part of the difficulties/test that we encounter on this journey. We know our purpose, we know where we are coming from and where we are going to, we know we did not just happen by randomness or came from nothingness!

kids told you or God they want to die in the hands of natural disasters, did anyone told you they want to die? Do you want to die now, do you wish natural disasters on you?

Well having comfort of a fairyland is a good thing and as well decietful. I wonder what a Malevolent God want to gain from a silly test.

I know my purpose and where I came from, that's from Flying spaghetti monster.

I never claimed that man is unlimited, just wanted you to know that there are distinctions between the creator and the creation! They are not bound to the same thing, a computer requires electricity to function while man does not require such. Of course they are all bound to the laws of the physical world/universe because they both exist within this world and the universe! Allah/God is not within this universe, so Allah/God cannot be bound by the laws of this universe, He created these laws!

You see the flaws in your analogy, since you claim Allah is not bound to the laws in this universe, why then did you bring up the analogy of man and computer? Are you not contradicting yourself? Are you not eaten your cake and having it too?

We are the only "intelligent" being on this planet and as far as science knows, this universe! Coincidence?! The Originator of all has the prerogative to communicate with us the way he wants, asking why makes you sound stupid, you don't even have a say with regards to when you were born or what will happen to you tomorrow, yet want to question why the messages were concentrated in ancient middle east?! God is the creator of time, he chooses when and where to reveal his messages.

So God is the creator of time, he chooses when and where to reveal is message, why then didn't he choose to reveal his message when humans were troglodytes? It was when humans can read and write your God showed up to reveal a fairy book and left when humans have camera.

Are you sure this God is all-knowing and not controlled by time?

No, google is not my friend, we are not in good terms!

And you use Google as your search engine? Oga haba.

Of course Dawkins is not a physicist, and evidently, giving characteristics to nothing makes you sound and look ridiculous!

Obviously ofcos.

The same law also apply to Allah who came from Nothing.

I had answered the question severally, God was not caused, God exist outside the universe, you can only observe the universe and the laws within it. You had also stated that science does not know what is outside the universe, so why are you adamant on knowing the cause before you believe?! Even scientist have made claims that laws of physics may not have been applicable at some point in the "beginning" of the universe...It is sheer stupidity to claim there is no creator of the observable intelligence within this universe because we do not know what caused the creator...

It's sheer stupidity to claim there's no cause for God and claim there's cause for the universe!

If God is outside the universe how then is he intervening,? Can cause and effect work outside time and space?

Do you know why deism said God left and doesn't intervene?

But without google or knowing these people, you cannot deny that the Iphone was invented! Man is more than 1 billion times complex than the Iphone, so you say it had no designer?! Is that scientifically possible?! How?!

So why are you denying Allah has a creator?

Can you see the absurdity and flaws?

Same laws cannot apply to what is outside of the universe until you can prove it! Even here on earth, same laws does not apply the same way when you go out of earth, so why making statements you cannot prove?! I do not say God is nothing, I said God is distinct from his creation,just as the computer and Iphone is distinct from the humans that invented them! God is the source of everything, matter and energy! When you think/imagine how vast and overwhelming this universe is, then you can't help but know that the creator would definitely be greater!

I never claim something is outside the universe, you are the one saying Allah is outside the universe, if there's any outside.

So from this,

* You need to prove Allah is the one outside the universe.

* Does that make Allah something? If yes...

* Do you still hold on to the law that said "something must cause something"?

^^^
I have had enough of your "reasoning"! You do not understand what and how analogies are being used and applied, you know nothing about the "theories" you believe which keeps changing, you do not even understand what is observable about the universe and what is empirical evidence in science.

Enjoy your ignorance, after all, your favorite line is "science does not know yet..."

Empiree:
See why his invocation was appropriate?

You agreed Allah is an angry god that depends on human worship?