@empiree @sino I wonder why you people bother to argue with him, because one can’t even have an intellectual conversation with him. It’s one thing to discuss with an intellectual atheist about religion, but this one ehn....

You guys are trying oh.

tintingz:
When you want to explain something to a kid, you come down to his/her level.

thank God you conceded. Was going to say this. Some of your responses are better left unanswered bcuz they sound ridiculously kiddie.

And what happen to this if FSM was drunk when he created the universe,

this should have answered you already. When a so called God was drunk, I wonder if it knew what it was doing at the time. Smh

I wonder how this negate FSM being a creator and God.

Creator is UNSEEN, buddy. And creator doesn't in anyway looks like His creation. But your FSM "creator" looks pretty much like octopus

If I'm the only believer in FSM, you can't still disprove his existence, using the population of people to prove a God(Allah) has limited that God to that of Facebook and Gmail.

I didn't really use popularity or population per se. I'm talking about his recognition was only known just 5yrs ago less ago. Historically, who else talked or recognized FSM?.

Does that mean FSM is not the creator and God? Was Islam not a borrowed pagan ideology by an Arab man?

FSM as been existing, then he revealed himself to we his creation. May FSM have mercy on you, Ramen.

"has been in existence".... Says who?. If everything you see or touch is a creator, then, statues that some ppl crafted and bow to are also creators?. . You are incredibly unbelievably. The big question is Who Created Flying Spaghetti Monster?.

I asked this because, obviously we can see how FSM looks like. But this is not the case with Allah. Allah is UNSEEN. Therefore, He's uncreated Creator.

Sissie:


Who’s faith is diminishing, keep my name out.
You do not have the capacity to diminish my faith, you can continue with your illusions all you want, but don’t mention me. Take this seriously.

Like I told you earlier, your brain capacity is average at best, and I can’t be bothered having a discussion with you. I didn’t see you as a smart person even before you became an atheist, when you used to post in Islam, romance and family section. You are definitely not smarter now. Yeah yeah lots of people told you, you aren’t smart, and now you will try to come up with something smart to say as your reply, don’t bother it makes no difference.

So now that you are an atheist, reading all the stuffs some atheist posted on the internet and using that as your justification still shows you are not the brightest. Ordinary nigerian map sef you went to bring up one nonsense on the Internet

I have seen atheists who could atleast put up a decent argument. But you ehn.

I wonder what your IQ is, you should do an iq test and post your results so we

Red herring! Red herring!! Red herring!!!.

Wether someone is smart or dumb, thats not the case here, drop the fallacy.

There are lots of dumb and irrational people in the section, but I overlooked it, my goal is to make people reason, not attack thier person.

Abeg, if you're ready for this argument here, kindly slide in, let me see how smart you're, prove me wrong, your fellow Muslims are sweating in this argument.

Empiree:
thank God you conceded. Was going to say this. Some of your responses are better left unanswered bcuz they sound ridiculously kiddie.

Lol, Your reasoning is caged somewhere, reductio ad absurdium is the therapy.

this should have answered you already. When a so called God was drunk, I wonder if it knew what it was doing at the time. Smh

What was Allah thinking when he created the devil shaytan, what was he thinking when he created natural disasters?

Now replace Allah as FSM(the drunk God) and see the absurdity.

Creator is UNSEEN, buddy. And creator doesn't in anyway looks like His creation. But your FSM "creator" looks pretty much like octopus

How FSM looks does not negate his existence as God and creator, that is just how he look, as long as people believe in him even one person, you cant disprove his existence, juts like the imaginary Allah cannot be disprove.

I didn't really use popularity or population per se. I'm talking about his recognition was only known just 5yrs ago less ago. Historically, who else talked or recognized FSM?.

Why were you mentioning countries?

When was Islam established?

In history, did Greeks, Vikings, Chinese, Eskimos, Africans etc talked or recognized Allah before Islam came?

Are you reasoning at all? Are you proving Allah with recognition and how people talk about him, do you want us to go into that?

Again i asked, did china for example recognized Allah?

"has been in existence".... Says who?. If everything you see or touch is a creator, then, statues that some ppl crafted and bow to are also creators?. . You are incredibly unbelievably. The big question is Who Created Flying Spaghetti Monster?.

Again, how does this negate FSM existence as God and creator? How is imaginary Allah different from statues and idols, how are they active?

At embolden, you are now asking question like a skeptic, it is good, the therapy is working, now use that same question for Allah with open mind, no sentiment.

To answer, no one created FSM, he is above everything and nothing is beside the Almighty.

I asked this because, obviously we can see how FSM looks like. But this is not the case with Allah. Allah is UNSEEN. Therefore, He's uncreated Creator.

It is the same case with Allah, both are God and creators believed by people. Zeus, Odin, Brahma, Obatala etc are Gods with depicts of how they look and they are still Gods. Your invisible God is in non-existing category, because i dont understand how some people can believe imaginary entity exist.

FSM is also uncreated creator, you cant prove he is created.

Sissie:
@empiree @sino I wonder why you people bother to argue with him, because one can’t even have an intellectual conversation with him. It’s one thing to discuss with an intellectual atheist about religion, but this one ehn....

You guys are trying oh.

I was sincerely hoping he would see the folly in his blind faith in science, but I know he is beyond redemption, especially with his current attitude. Don't mind me sef, I sometimes kick myself after clicking the quote button on his posts

Having a blind Faith in science that give answers to cure of diseases, how the natural world function is far beneficial than a religion that claim a man rode on a flying unicorn to the sky or some Nicki minaj-like ladies are waiting for we men in a fairyland.

Science is knowledge itself, we can't do without science, many medieval Muslims depend on science that was inspired/influenced by the ancient Greeks, there are lots of medieval Muslim scientists around some period although many of thier works didn't lead to mordern scientific revolution, no wonder today Muslims have problem with science even when there are great medieval muslims scientists, historians are still pondering why many Muslims at some point in time suddenly cut off science.

Anyways, my goal here is to make people reason, and I'm very sure anyone who go through this thread words for words with open mind will be in skeptical state of mind.

^^^

yourself is yet to reason outside the box. Science in itself is ingrained in the Quran and hadith. Scientists can not do anything outside of God's plans. In another word, they rely on templates or blueprints. All knowledge, including scientific knowledge were already imbibed along with Adam (as). These knowledge are revealed stage by stage according to their fitted times. It is all documented in the Quran. Only those who are firmly grounded in knowledge are able to decode them. So scientists aren't telling us anything new.

You on the other hand are calling for disbelief in God, the Creator. This is the propaganda of Pastafarianism. It is simply a godless group. There will forever be scientific discoveries. Whatever their discoveries will be in another 50yrs already came with Adam(as). It is only up to muslims to revisit Qur'an and the sunnah. Knowledge of science is in the Quran not outside of it. So you can't really tell us anything new.


Examples:

Aircraft, أَوَلَمْ يَرَوْا إِلَى الطَّيْرِ فَوْقَهُمْ صَافَّاتٍ وَيَقْبِضْنَ مَا يُمْسِكُهُنَّ إِلَّا الرَّحْمَنُ إِنَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ بَصِيرٌ

“Or did they not see towards the birds above them, spreading and contracting (their wings)? No one holds them except the beneficent (Allah). He is certainly the Seer of everything.”(67:19)


أَلَمْ يَرَوْاْ إِلَى الطَّيْرِ مُسَخَّرَاتٍ فِي جَوِّ السَّمَاء مَا يُمْسِكُهُنَّ إِلاَّ اللّهُ إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ

“Did you not see towards the birds compelled (to follow His Laws) in the space of the sky, no one holds them but Allah, there are certainly signs in that for a people who believe.” (16:79)


The above verses of the Quran invite mankind to reflect on the shape of and the forces acting on birds, which keep them in flight. This invitation to reflect on birds could be to inspire human beings to invent means of transport like aeroplanes. The history of aviation too provides us with a proof that birds had dominated the inspiration of man right from the start.

“Early attempts at aviation were often based on bird flight, where the flapping wings provides both the lift and the propulsive thrust.” (page 3 of Aircraft flight, written by Barnard & Phillpott)


The Quran has also hinted about aerial attacks through aeroplanes:

"Did you not consider, how your Fosterer dealt with the owners of the Elephant? Did He not make their plot useless, and send on them flocks of flying creatures, who pelted them with stones of baked clay, so that He made them like eaten up straw (husk)?" (105:1-5)


So revelation of Qur'an by God predated modern science that you are trying to hypnotize us. Another example is "Rainbow mountains" in China which were discovered recently, while Qur'an already talked about it 1400 years ago.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcDimyET4Yk

^^^ Oga Empiree, Can you provide evidence for Adam existence?

Since Sino is dodging these Question, maybe you should take it up.

Science and religion will always conflicts at a point, science doesn't have anything to do with religion but can be used by religious people for thier personal agenda/interest!

Humans survive without God, we discovered how the natural world function without God since God is Impotent to do something about natural disasters, we find cure for diseases without God, build technology without God, so God is NOTHING to science.

The skepticism about God existence by early scholars like the Greeks was what led to the genesis of science and philosophy, this is how the questions and arguments about God started which infact diminishing God as years goes by. The west, the far East Asia, some Arabs, coming down to Africa are now irreligious, some Godless.

And I'm very certain in the future, many people won't take religion serious like it was in the past.

tintingz:
^^^ Oga E.mpiree, Can you provide evidence for Adam existence?

Exactly, i knew it. it is the same if someone had told you Allah was created and you would have asked 'who created the one who created Allah , and who created that and who created that" and so on. Anyway, to answer your question, imagine 200 yrs from now your great great and great grandchildren deny your existence?. How would you feel in your grave?

tintingz:
Science and religion will always conflicts at a point, science doesn't have anything to do with religion but can be used by religious people for thier personal agenda/interest!

whatever this means?

tintingz:
Humans survive without God, we discovered how the natural world function without God since God is Impotent to do something about natural disasters, we find cure for diseases without God, build technology without God, so God is NOTHING to science.

4 minutes video i posted earlier already answered this and i have also answered it in my last post. The Sheikh said humans (scientists) had to rely on blueprints. So tell me how human survive without God?. Besides, the implication is, you survive without your so called "Flying Spaghetti Monster god". See how silly you sound now?.

tintingz:
The skepticism about God existence by early scholars like the Greeks was what led to the genesis of science and philosophy, this is how the questions and arguments about God started which infact diminishing God as years goes by.

The Greeks guys are gone but God Almighty still functions. See yourself?

tintingz:
And I'm very certain in the future, many people won't take religion serious like it was in the past.

thats happening now but not becus God doesnt exist but because of evil that plague the world. You are a living example of such people who denied existent of God.

Empiree:
Exactly, i knew it. it is the same if someone had told you Allah was created and you have asked 'who created the one who created Allah , and who created that and who created that" and so on.

Evidence Adam existed, we can find evidence of dinosaurs that lived million years ago, where is that for Adam?

whatever this means?

It means if natural disasters can kill people without Allah doing nothing and we're the ones helping ourselves to survive, we can do without God.

4 minutes video i posted earlier already answered this and i have also answered it in my last post. The Sheikh said humans (scientists) had to rely on blueprints. So tell me how human survive without God?. Besides, the implication is, you survive without your so called "Flying Spaghetti Monster god". See how silly you sound now?.

I replied that video with questions, go and pass that question to the sheikh.

If God is actually doing something, how is he stopping natural disasters he created?

The Greeks guys are gone but God Almighty still functions. See yourself?

The ancient greek philosophers left many questions and arguments which can't be answered by God believers, which is giving them tough time and critical thinking, these argument are diminishing God.

thats happening now but not becus God doesnt exist but because of evil that plague the world. You are a living example of such people who denied existent of God.

God is the evil, Malevolent God, humans are beginning to see the truth and uncaged themselves.

tintingz:
Evidence Adam existed, we can find evidence of dinosaurs that lived million years ago, where is that for Adam?

Adam(as) was human being with 2-legs. In another word, like yourself. So yourself is evidence that Adam existed and we have billions of human skeletons. Pretty simple isn't.

tintingz:
It means if natural disasters can kill people without Allah doing nothing and we're the ones helping ourselves to survive, we can do without God.

You are incredible for reasoning from your bottom. This is very simple. Since you don't believe in Allah, it doesn't make sense to keep perambulating. Since you believe the so called "Flying Spaghetti Monster" created the world and everything, the implication is that he sends natural disasters on us. Why did he not stop all natural disasters and why did he bring it on us in the first place?.

tintingz:
I replied that video with questions, go and pass that question to the sheikh.

I will conclude on this by saying you have no evidence that scientists or science is independent of Creator. They rely on blueprints already fashioned by Allah. Case closed.

tintingz:
If God is actually doing something, how is he stopping natural disasters he created?

Natural disasters are tests and trials, and WARNINGS

tintingz:
The ancient greek philosophers left many questions and arguments which can't be answered by God believers, which is giving them tough time and critical thinking, these argument are diminishing God.

And where are the so called Ancient Greek philosophers today?. They have gone back to their Maker. I am sure they now know for sure in their graves that there is a God.

Empiree:
Adam(as) was human being with 2-legs. In another word, like yourself. So yourself is evidence that Adam existed and we have billions of human skeletons. Pretty simple isn't.

Evidence please.

Science has proven we evolve from ape-like ancestors, now prove we came from just two couples. Give archaeological anthropology, paleontology, geology, evidence for thier existence.

You are incredible for reasoning from your bottom. This is very simple. Since you don't believe in Allah, it doesn't make sense to keep perambulating. Since you believe the so called "Flying Spaghetti Monster" created the world and everything, the implication is that he sends natural disasters on us. Why did he not stop all natural disasters and why did he bring it on us in the first place?.

FSM never claim he's perfect, he's drunk when he created the universe, now Allah is perfect all-knowing, why did he allow natural disasters?

I will conclude on this by saying you have no evidence that scientists or science is independent of Creator. They rely on blueprints already fashioned by Allah. Case closed.

What blueprint are you talking about? Did Allah write his name on this so called blueprint?

Natural disasters are tests and trials, and WARNINGS

Interesting, so a God created natural disasters for a silly test? So God do evil to test people, how is he different from shaytan?

And where are the so called Ancient Greek philosophers today?. They have gone back to their Maker. I am sure they now know for sure in their graves that there is a God.

The so called ancient Greeks you're belittling are the founder of science and philosophy we're enjoying and benefitting today, give them good credit, Muhammad is dead too and many of his followers are the problem of this world today.

tintingz:
Evidence please.

Science has proven we evolve from ape-like ancestors, now prove we came from just two couples. Give archaeological anthropology, paleontology, geology, evidence for thier existence.

They simply mean species not necessarily Ape, Gorrilla or Monkey. Scientist are not all in harmony in this issue of human development. Contention here is, Adam existed. His existence led to you. And I ask you again, how would you feel in your grave 200yrs from now when your great grandchildren deny your existence?. Denying Adam means your grandpa also did not exist. Did he?.

FSM never claim he's perfect, he's drunk when he created the universe,

Good, he is not God.

What blueprint are you talking about? Did Allah write his name on this so called blueprint?

it is existing substance before science. Did scientists create their own soil, water, oil, gas etc?. NO. They utilized pre-existing tools. They can't come up with their own.

The so called ancient Greeks you're belittling are the founder of science and philosophy we're enjoying and benefitting today, give them good credit,

what's special in what they did?. They simply made use of tools created by God. Without pre-existing tools they are nothing. Their credit is with their Lord, not me.

As for tests and trials of disasters, you are currently being tested. This is your disaster. You better be careful. Every post of yours and us are recorded and will be used against you in the grave. You will have no excuse whatsoever.

Empiree:
They simply mean species not necessarily Ape, Gorrilla or Monkey. Scientist are not all in harmony in this issue of human development. Contention here is, Adam existed. His existence led to you. And I ask you again, how would you feel in your grave 200yrs from now when your great grandchildren deny your existence?. Denying Adam means your grandpa also did not exist. Did he?.

Wrong, I never said Humans evolve from ape, humans evolve from "ape-like" speacie, although we share close DNA with chimps.

Now about Adam, there's no fossil to support he exist or he's our ancestor, tracing our ancestry to just two couples is against evolution and science in general.

Good, he is not God.

A God doesn't need to be perfect to be call God, Allah is not perfect himself.

it is existing substance before science. Did scientists create their own soil, water, oil, gas etc?. NO. They utilized pre-existing tools. They can't come up with their own.

Did Allah create energy?

Existing materials does not mean Allah is the one that put it there.

what's special in what they did?. They simply made use of tools created by God. Without pre-existing tools they are nothing. Their credit is with their Lord, not me.

What tools are made by God? Which God?

Nothing is special about what they did and you are using medical drugs, science, philosophy to solve our problems. Why are you being dishonest and ungrateful.

As for tests and trials of disasters, you are currently being tested. This is your disaster. You better be careful. Every post of yours and us are recorded and will be used against you in the grave. You will have no excuse whatsoever.

If Allah test people with evil things, how is he different from Satan?

^^^

What you are doing isn't new, and you not gonna be the last either. This just gonna keep going on in cycle

Empiree:
^^^

What you are doing isn't new, and you not gonna be the last either. This just gonna keep going on in cycle

Does that falsify or make thing true?

Go and read how you argue against FSM and use it against Allah.

tintingz:

If Allah test people with evil things, how is he different from Satan?

What do you define as "evil"? On what premise?? Lol

Rilwayne001:


What do you define as "evil"? On what premise?? Lol

* Evil
profoundly immoral and wicked.

* On what premise

- That God created the devil Satan and can't put stop to what he created.

- That God created natural disasters and can't do nothing about it

I asked why did God want this,

Sino said People affected by Natural disasters had to die, that God has a plan and paradise is part of it, because it's a test

Empiree said, natural disasters is a test.

And I react, why is God using evil to test people, how is God different from Satan in this case, is God malevolent?

tintingz:


* Evil
profoundly immoral and wicked.

* On what premise

- That God created the devil Satan and can't put stop to what he created.

- That God created natural disasters and can't do nothing about it

I asked why did God want this,

Sino said People affected by Natural disasters had to die, that God has a plan and paradise is part of it, because it's a test

Emp.iree said, natural disasters is a test.

And I react, why is God using evil to test people, how is God different from Satan in this case, is God malevolent?

God tests people with money and wealth as well. How about that?.

Once again, you are being tested but you have failed

Empiree:
God tests people with money and wealth as well. How about that?.

Once again, you are being tested but you have failed

Satan also help people with money and wealth.

The fact that people claim God is all perfect, good and moral is false, he is actually both malevolent and benevolent.

The malevolent part is what Muslims will not agree on.

I've not fail because I don't do evil things, I wonder what justification a God will throw a good, kind atheist/non-believer to hell?

As I have said before, this argument will continue back n forth to no avail.

tintingz:
Satan also help people with money and wealth.

you have lost sense of reasoning. Even if Satan helps people with wealth and money, we know the source is always questionable and consequences follow, either on this planet or Afterlife.

Besides, it is not really Satan that gives wealth. All risq come from Allah. Channels may be different. Satan doesn't have independent power to give.

The fact that people claim God is a all perfect, good and moral is false, he is actually both malevolent and benevolent.

as always, your opinion. Yourself is evidence of perfection of God. Your problem is, you are ungrateful and Allah speaks of ungrateful people and consequences of their ungratefulness.

The messenger of ALLAH, the Prophet MUHAMMAD, peace and blessings be upon him, said,

'Allah says:

*- Oh you My creature, I gave you a place in the womb

*- I covered your face with a veil so that you do not be scared

*- I turned your face towards the back of your mother so that the smell of food does not bother you

*- I've put a support to your right and to your left a support to protect you

*- To your right the liver and spleen to your left

*- I taught you to stand and sit in the womb

*- Is there someone in the world who can do such things for you?

*- When you arrive at the end of your life

*- I will send the Angel of Death to welcome you

*- He will host a feather wings


*- You do not have teeth to eat, feet to walk

*- To feed you, I put you two thin veins in the breasts of your mother

*- Milk just for you, cold in summer and warm in winter

*- If you do not sleep, your mother does not sleep

*- If you do not eat, your mother does not eat!

After you have become a strong man, you start to deny me, and you experienced no discomfort in front of me

*- Despite this, if you ask me, I give you

*- If you invoke, I hear you
*- And if you repent, I accept your repentance

*- What do you want better than that??*


See highlighted part CLEARLY describes you. But it is not too late as the statement says if you repent now. So you are ungrateful after you grew up, you started worship Spaghetti What a shame!

Flying Spaghetti was the one taken care of you in your mom's womb?. You are very funny.

Empiree:
As I have said before, this argument will continue back n forth to no avail. you have lost sense of reasoning. Even if Satan help people with wealth and money, we know the source is always questionable and consequences follow, either on this planet or Afterlife.

Besides, it is not really Satan that gives wealth. All risq come from Allah. Channels may be different. Satan doesn't have independent power to give.

Oh really, Allah work with Satan or what, I don't understand?

If Satan is not Independent of power, how then Allah cannot stop Satan?

as always, your opinion. Yourself is evidence of perfection of God. Your problem is, you are ungrateful and Allah speaks of ungrateful people and consequences of their ungratefulness.

I'm not a perfect human, humans are not perfection of any God, if you read my response to Sino, you will get why both God and humans are not perfect.

I'm not perfect because I wish we could fly like birds and travel freely, a perfect "all-knowing" God should know what humans perfectly need.

Evolution is also a tool of an imperfect God.

The messenger of ALLAH, the Prophet MUHAMMAD, peace and blessings be upon him, said,

'Allah says:

*- Oh you My creature, I gave you a place in the womb

*- I covered your face with a veil so that you do not be scared

*- I turned your face towards the back of your mother so that the smell of food does not bother you

*- I've put a support to your right and to your left a support to protect you

*- To your right the liver and spleen to your left

*- I taught you to stand and sit in the womb

*- Is there someone in the world who can do such things for you?

*- When you arrive at the end of your life

*- I will send the Angel of Death to welcome you

*- He will host a feather wings


*- You do not have teeth to eat, feet to walk

*- To feed you, I put you two thin veins in the breasts of your mother

*- Milk just for you, cold in summer and warm in winter

*- If you do not sleep, your mother does not sleep

*- If you do not eat, your mother does not eat!

After you have become a strong man, you start to deny me, and you experienced no discomfort in front of me

*- Despite this, if you ask me, I give you

*- If you invoke, I hear you
*- And if you repent, I accept your repentance

*- What do you want better than that??*

Empty talk, Allah should end natural disasters and Satan first, then I will take Allah serious.

See highlighted part CLEARLY describes you. But it is not too late as the statement says if you repent now. So you are ungrateful after you grew up, you started worship Spaghetti What a shame!

It's not late to accept Flying spaghetti monster as your God and creator, it's not too late, don't be blind to see the truth before you.

Flying Spaghetti was the one taken care of you in your mom's womb?. You are very funny.

Yes who else?, Almighty Flying spaghetti monster is the one true God, you better turn to the true God and repent.

tintingz:
Oh really, Allah work with Satan or what, I don't understand?

If Satan is not Independent of power, how then Allah cannot stop Satan?

I'm not a perfect human, humans are not perfection of any God, if you read my response to Sino, you will get why both God and humans are not perfect.

I'm not perfect because I wish we could fly like birds and travel freely, a perfect all-knowing God should know what humans perfectly need.

Evolution is also a tool of an imperfect God.

Empty talk, Allah should end natural disasters and Satan first, then I will take Allah serious.

It's not late to accept Flying spaghetti monster as your God and creator, it's not too late, don't be blind to see the truth before you.

Yes who else?, Almighty Flying spaghetti monster is the one true God, you better turn the true God and repent.

I have seen more reason to press IGNORE button NOW

Empiree:
I have seen more reason to press IGNORE button NOW

It's better for you because your absurdity is alarming, you're too caged to see how ridiculous and apologetic you sound about your God.