Mr_Anony:
Funny how you claim that no one is a "child of God" then turn around and describe our relationship with God in terms of Father and son

Where have you been? after running away "forsaking him (the thread) and fled" you sneak back to make poor remarks? I never said anybody is the child of God, if you cannot understand the simple English I wrote u do not need responding to it, I pointed out clearly if we humans can do certain things as basic as punishing and forgiving people, then how hard is it for God to do these things perfectly, I know it hurts that martian said you loose, but truly I won't want to believe that you were here to win anything . . . but what is most unfortunate is the fact that you could not even address the substance of what I wrote,then I believe you accept the logic behind it, now if your problem is father and child, change over to master and servant . . . sometimes the master punishes his servant for doing something wrong based on certain things the servant might not know, and other times he forgives him because he accept his pleas for forgiveness, the simple message I am passing to you is that Allah deciding to forgive when he wills and punishes when he wills, is based on the fact that he knows all, and that is enough for him to determine when we deserved to be forgiven or punished . . . the fact remains after you guys overlook the issue of an innocent person dying for your sins when it is very clear that such a proposition is very unjust questions ur sincerity towards the truth remains a big indictment on the sort of logic u use, when you go accusing people, do not accuse them of things u are more guilty of. and till date you still have found no answer to these questions https://www.nairaland.com/1004936/allah/2#11668372

Mr_Anony:
The difference is that we can ask our father for forgiveness and be sure that He will forgive. A slave does not have such certainty.Besides no son of God will be in Hell. Hell is a place reserved for enemies of God. I hope you do realie that not all who claim they are sons of God are indeed sons of God. God knows His children.

so you're simply telling me it is God's decision to choose whom to punish and whom to save.it has to significance you regarding yourself "a son" or i regarding myself a "slave".likewise we Muslims believe it is God that would choose who is saved and who isn't.calling yourself "son" or "grandma" is nothing but names you have invented and God did not place any authority in them.

i am sure of one thing,my own biological father will never deny me to be his own son because i only have him as my father.but your own imaginary "father" will deny many of you to be his "sons" according to you.the question again,what is the difference between you who call yourselves "sons" and would be denied and us "slaves" who may or not be denied? no differnce!

LagosShia:
so you're simply telling me it is God's decision to choose whom to punish and whom to save.it has to significance you regarding yourself "a son" or i regarding myself a "slave".likewise we Muslims believe it is God that would choose who is saved and who isn't.calling yourself "son" or "grandma" is nothing but names you have invented and God did not place any authority in them.

You missed the point. The point is that I am sure that if I repent, my father will definitely forgive me. The servant can never be sure of forgiveness, he can only hope and wish for it. That's the difference

LagosShia: i am sure of one thing,my own biological father will never deny me to be his own son because i only have him as my father.but your own imaginary "father" will deny many of you to be his "sons" according to you.the question again,what is the difference between you who call yourselves "sons" and would be denied and us "slaves" who may or not be denied? no differnce!

I am equally sure that your biological father will deny Goodluck Jonathan no matter how much he claims to be your father's son.

Mr_Anony:

You missed the point. The point is that I am sure that if I repent, my father will definitely forgive me. The servant can never be sure of forgiveness, he can only hope and wish for it. That's the difference

if the "slave" also repents,he will gain forgiveness.here the term "repent" and "forgiveness" are therefore relative terms subjected to your prejudice and religious bias.

the questions now:

if both the slave and "son" repent,and can they forgiven,then what is the difference between the two? if you become Muslim,i believe you would be forgiven.and if i become christian you believe i would be forgiven.so these terms you are using for religious politics and blackmail is nonsense.

if both commit sins,and are equal punished with fire,what is the difference? my biological father does not punish me with fire or as he punishes a stranger.

the point i am making is also contained in the Quran verse i earlier presented asking you if you are children of God then why does God chastize you? the point is you are no more than mortals created by God as the rest of humanity.you sin he will put you in fire to roast.you repent,he will forgive.

you have your way you believe is the right way to claim forgiveness and repent.and muslims too have their way.you using empty words like "son" and "slave" to make empty arguments that make and will make no difference,is a waste of time.

I am equally sure that your biological father will deny Goodluck Jonathan no matter how much he claims to be your father's son.

bingo!

that is the entire point.

your own imagnary father will deny you if you sin.my biological father will not.

your imaginary father will equally regard those you call "slaves" as "sons" if they repent.then what is difference between you two? there is no difference.you are all creatures of God.it is business as usual.your semantics is rubbish.

but no matter how good another man is,he can never be my father's son.so we come to the point muslims have always told you.that the term "son of God" used in the bible is figurative and not literal.God have many "sons".

Romans 8:14
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

LagosShia:
if the "slave" also repents,he will gain forgiveness.here the term "repent" and "forgiveness" are therefore relative terms subjected to your prejudice and religious bias.

the questions now:

if both the slave and "son" repent,and can they forgiven,then what is the difference between the two? if you become Muslim,i believe you would be forgiven.and if i become christian you believe i would be forgiven.so these terms you are using for religious politics and blackmail is nonsense.

if both commit sins,and are equal punished with fire,what is the difference? my biological father does not punish me with fire or as he punishes a stranger.

the point i am making is also contained in the Quran verse i earlier presented asking you if you are children of God then why does God chastize you? the point is you are no more than mortals created by God as the rest of humanity.you sin he will put you in fire to roast.you repent,he will forgive.

you have your way you believe is the right way to claim forgiveness and repent.and muslims too have their way.you using empty words like "son" and "slave" to make empty arguments that make and will make no difference,is a waste of time.

you keep missing the point. The point is that the son is sure of forgiveness. It is a right.

The slave does not have such a right. He doesn't even have the right to ask for anything at all from God.

bingo!

that is the entire point.

your own imagnary father will deny you if you sin.my biological father will not.

Lol,so God is not imaginary abi? Anyway as usual u miss the point. God loves his children. By sinning, it is us who deny Him and God will not force people into Heaven against their will.

your imaginary father will equally regard those you call "slaves" as "sons" if they repent.then what is difference between you two?

The difference is that one repented and became adopted (born into God's family) while the other chose to reject His master's offer and continue slaving away.

@Mr Anony:

“Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ ” -Matthew 7:22-23

New International Version (©1984)
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings. James 1:1

New Living Translation (©2007)
Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form, Philippians 2:7

1 I, Paul, am a devoted slave of Jesus Christ on assignment, authorized as an apostle to proclaim God's words and acts. I write this letter to all the Christians in Rome, God's friends Romans 1:1

While Mr Anony is deceiving himself as "son of God", Jesus was wise to take the position of a slave, the very same position we muslims take.

Mr Anony continue in your deceit because you are even less than Paul who says he is a slave of Jesus, who himself is a slave like I am to the same God, you are claiming to be your father.

But Jesus has already answered you in your deceit by telling you that he will tell you to get away from him because he does not know you, you doer of iniquity.

Kudos to my muslim brothers for the light you've shown mr Anony,i'm sure he will never listen cos Allah has said it all in the holy Quran,no matter the evidences except if Allah wills.
JazakAllah Khair

Sweetnecta: @Mr Anony:

While Mr Anony is deceiving himself as "son of God", Jesus was wise to take the position of a slave, the very same position we muslims take.

Mr Anony continue in your deceit because you are even less than Paul who says he is a slave of Jesus, who himself is a slave like I am to the same God, you are claiming to be your father.

But Jesus has already answered you in your deceit by telling you that he will tell you to get away from him because he does not know you, you doer of iniquity.

I see that you have posted some bible verses to prove your point. I'll take it that you believe those bible verses to be true. Now let us examine them:-

New International Version (©1984)
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings. James 1:1

1 I, Paul, am a devoted slave of Jesus Christ on assignment, authorized as an apostle to proclaim God's words and acts. I write this letter to all the Christians in Rome, God's friends Romans 1:1

Why do Paul and James refer to themselves here as servants of God? Let us continue...

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. “Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ ” -Matthew 7:21-23

I just added verse 21 which you omitted to show you that Jesus is the Son of God and not servant.

New Living Translation (©2007)
You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form, Philippians 2:5-7

I have added verse 5 and 6 which you omitted so that you can know that Jesus is God but He humbled Himself as a servant and was born a human being. We are also encouraged to be humble like Him and that is why you see the disciples referring to themselves sometimes as servants.

You can look up these verses in a bible for yourself so you know I am not making things up. Remember it was you that originally came up with the verses and not me.

Please permit me to show you other verses of scripture:

Yet to all who did receive him (Jesus Christ), to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God — children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. John 1:12-13 NIV

(you can read the whole of John 1 for yourself to be sure)

So you have not received a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. Instead, you received God’s Spirit when he adopted you as his own children. Now we call him, “Abba, Father.” Romans 8:15 NLT

(this is Paul speaking to Christians here...again feel free to read the whole chapter yourself so you see if I am twisting it out of context or not)

God loves us so much He prefers us to become His sons that to continue being slaves. God's doors are open for us my brother. Please don't turn your back on Him

LagosShia: Mr.Anony,

are Christians obedient to God? please i want to know if Christians find it important to obey God.what do you think about that?

Yes it is important to obey God. A son must obey his Father

This thread just shows how senseless the trinity ideology is... The brothers are ripping these guys to shreds...

JazakAllahu Khair

Mr_Anony:
Yes it is important to obey God. A son must obey his Father

Sweetnecta has just proven from the bible Jesus (as) was a slave of God.now i am going to prove you too are a slave of God.you are a slave!!!

Romans 6:16
"Don't you know, that to whom you yield yourselves slaves to obey, his slaves you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

LagosShia:


Sweetnecta has just proven from the bible Jesus (as) was a slave of God.now i am going to prove you too are a slave of God.you are a slave!!!

Romans 6:16
"Don't you know, that to whom you yield yourselves slaves to obey, his slaves you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

Perhaps, you should read my reply to Sweetnecta

Mr_Anony:
Perhaps, you should read my reply to Sweetnecta

do you obey God? you said yes.

end of story.

your heart is sealed.you can spare us by sealing your mouth as well.

LagosShia:

do you obey God? you said yes.

end of story.

your heart is sealed.you can spare us by sealing your mouth as well.

No my friend, the story has not ended. Trying to shut me up now are we?

Yes I obey God, He is my Father. Obeying your father does not make you a slave.

Why are you willing to take one fraction of a story and stubbornly hold onto it while turning a blind eye to the whole story?

If you will quote the bible, then you must also accept quotes from the same bible to be true otherwise, reject it entirely.

I wasn't the one who first quoted scripture, you and Sweetnecta did. All I'm asking is that you don't use the bible when it favors your bias and then dump it when it does not, that is dishonesty. I wouldn't even treat your quran like that .....and I sincerely hope that you don't also employ your quran for such purposes.

Mr_Anony:

Yes I obey God, He is my Father. Obeying your father does not make you a slave.

your bible doesn't agree with you!

Romans 6:16
"Don't you know, that to whom you yield yourselves slaves to obey, his slaves you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

Instead of Mr Anony disputing the Bibles where we find Jesus the slave. then servant by the accounts of his lifetime disciples who new him. also son of God and God by Paul who never knew him. and Jesus never knew Paul for sure. Paul has based his position on what was unconfirmed illusion or delusional appearance of Jesus to him. There are jinns, the evil kind that minister to the heart, presenting fallacy as reality. This is what happened to Paul.

The fact that Paul disagrees with the likes of Peter shows that if Paul was not the Another Comfort the good spirit from God [according to Jesus was to correct his community and stare them from the wrong that will be prevailing, teach them knew things, the things Jesus didn't teach them because of their little faith, reminded them of what Jesus actually said instead of what people are erroneously saying that Jesus said, and abiding with them forever in what God gave him, if God did not commission Paul on these as He had commissioned Jesus on his limited mission so that the Another Comforter must come to complete and no one else will after him], then Paul must not to be believed, especially when Jesus is completely opposite what he said Jesus is.

We read that Jesus said "Ellah" twice [my God, twice] and not Abba!

The one who God put His Word in his mouth is the one we follow and you can read many 10s, maybe 100s of God saying to Muhammad [sa] "say", and Muhammad [sa] harkened to the commandment and "said" to the people, immediately what he was commanded to say. And each chapter of the Quran started wit "in the Name of God. . . .", except Surah Taubah, where in Surah Naml starts with In the Name of God . . . and then a verse in this Surah contains "in the Name of God . . . .".

After the night of power that i am entering now, i will respond to you tomorrow, Mr Anony. My brothers in faith have done good job for the pleasure of God against you by using your Bible to tear away at your empty facade of weak presentation. Call Jesus what you want. It will not change his place with God. He is a prophet, a human and slave like you and I. He said it in saying he is a prophet. A son of man. and we know God is not the man in that son of man. A slave servant who was sent to the children of israel, not any other people. And he was not the seal of prophetic messenger. He said Another comforter will come. So we see Muhammad [sa] arrived and Muhammad said by his Lord that he is the seal of Prophet-hood, the last messenger.


To the Muslims, I pray that Allah give each the reward of this magnificent Night. Amin and by it for give us all our sins. The ummah will not agree on lie by what is true.

LagosShia:

your bible doesn't agree with you!

Romans 6:16
"Don't you know, that to whom you yield yourselves slaves to obey, his slaves you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

The way you try to twist statements is just plain silly. Do you obey your father?

What you are doing is simply childish it is like arguing thus:
Premise 1: African women are dark-skinned
Premise 2: LagosShia is dark-skinned
Conclusion: LagosShia must be an African woman

Your use of logic here is poor and you know it.

Sweetnecta: Instead of Mr Anony disputing the Bibles where we find Jesus the slave. then servant by the accounts of his lifetime disciples who new him. also son of God and God by Paul who never knew him. and Jesus never knew Paul for sure. Paul has based his position on what was unconfirmed illusion or delusional appearance of Jesus to him. There are jinns, the evil kind that minister to the heart, presenting fallacy as reality. This is what happened to Paul.

The fact that Paul disagrees with the likes of Peter shows that if Paul was not the Another Comfort the good spirit from God [according to Jesus was to correct his community and stare them from the wrong that will be prevailing, teach them knew things, the things Jesus didn't teach them because of their little faith, reminded them of what Jesus actually said instead of what people are erroneously saying that Jesus said, and abiding with them forever in what God gave him, if God did not commission Paul on these as He had commissioned Jesus on his limited mission so that the Another Comforter must come to complete and no one else will after him], then Paul must not to be believed, especially when Jesus is completely opposite what he said Jesus is.

We read that Jesus said "Ellah" twice [my God, twice] and not Abba!

The one who God put His Word in his mouth is the one we follow and you can read many 10s, maybe 100s of God saying to Muhammad [sa] "say", and Muhammad [sa] harkened to the commandment and "said" to the people, immediately what he was commanded to say. And each chapter of the Quran started wit "in the Name of God. . . .", except Surah Taubah, where in Surah Naml starts with In the Name of God . . . and then a verse in this Surah contains "in the Name of God . . . .".

After the night of power that i am entering now, i will respond to you tomorrow, Mr Anony. My brothers in faith have done good job for the pleasure of God against you by using your Bible to tear away at your empty facade of weak presentation. Call Jesus what you want. It will not change his place with God. He is a prophet, a human and slave like you and I. He said it in saying he is a prophet. A son of man. and we know God is not the man in that son of man. A slave servant who was sent to the children of israel, not any other people. And he was not the seal of prophetic messenger. He said Another comforter will come. So we see Muhammad [sa] arrived and Muhammad said by his Lord that he is the seal of Prophet-hood, the last messenger.


To the Muslims, I pray that Allah give each the reward of this magnificent Night. Amin and by it for give us all our sins. The ummah will not agree on lie by what is true.

My friend, instead of this long rant, I would really have preferred you responded specifically to my last reply and please when responding to me, I would like you to bear in mind that it was you who originally chose those bible verses and not me.
In the interest of honesty, please don't quote a verse in isolation just to suit your bias.

Mr_Anony:
The way you try to twist statements is just plain silly. Do you obey your father?

What you are doing is simply childish it is like arguing thus:
Premise 1: African women are dark-skinned
Premise 2: LagosShia is dark-skinned
Conclusion: LagosShia must be an African woman

Your use of logic here is poor and you know it.

dont try to be silly.

you know well what is the meaning of "obey" and what is meant by "obey" in the verse from the bible,and you know how a human being can "obey" God.if you do,then you will stop telling me about me and my father.

i have even earlier showed you that my biological father as a human being would even offer me preferential treatment if i am wrong,and that is not the case with God who treats all men equally as His creatures without any preference even when you try to fool yourself and blackmail others by labelling yourself "a son" and others as "slaves".these are all word games.so stop it.

likewise,the obedience God expects of man is not the same obedience your father would expect from you and even if your biological father expects,you wont give him the obedience you give to God.

Romans 8:14
"For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God".

really i am suprised by your lack of thinking.do you need a tap on your head for it to work?

LagosShia:

dont try to be silly.

you know well what is the meaning of "obey" and what is meant by "obey" in the verse from the bible,and you know how a human being can "obey" God.if you do,then you will stop telling me about me and my father.

i have even earlier showed you that my biological father as a human being would even offer me preferential treatment if i am wrong,and that is not the case with God who treats all men equally as His creatures without any preference even when you try to fool yourself and blackmail others by labelling yourself "a son" and others as "slaves".these are all word games.so stop it.

likewise,the obedience God expects of man is not the same obedience your father would expect from you and even if your biological father expects,you wont give him the obedience you give to God.

Romans 8:14
"For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God".

really i am suprised by your lack of thinking.do you need a tap on your head for it to work?

I see you quoted Romans 8:14 thankfully, the very verse tells us that we are the sons of God if we yield to His leading. (Remember you quoted the verse yourself and not me)
Perhaps I should help you along with a more comprehensive quote from the same place you quoted:

Romans 8:14-17 (NIV)
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."
16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.
17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Thanks for seeing what I am saying.

Astagfirllah,I've seen enough blasphemy on this thread.May Almighty Allah lead to to the right path.amin

Mr_Anony:
I see you quoted Romans 8:14 thankfully, the very verse tells us that we are the sons of God if we yield to His leading. (Remember you quoted the verse yourself and not me)
Perhaps I should help you along with a more comprehensive quote from the same place you quoted:

Romans 8:14-17 (NIV)
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."
16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.
17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Thanks for seeing what I am saying.

"sons of God" is figurative.can't you see that from the verse? anyone who obeys God is a slave.that is also in the other verse.

if you want to claim figuratively being the "son" of God,i can also tell you i am "a son of God" figuratively.if you claim christians are "sons of God",i can also tell you Muslims are "sons of God" figuratively.we Muslims also obey God and are proud to be His servants and slaves.this is all in accord with the bible.

now the reason one of the names we Muslims refer to Allah (swt) among the most beautiful names is not "father" or "Aba",is because of the monsterous claim christians have placed on God and His servant Jesus (as).you have made the figurative literal,and have made Jesus (as) as many others not a "son" figuratively because he was "led by the spirit" (i.e. being righteous and obedient to God) but literally a "son".you have used his miraculous birth which demonstrates God's creational power to attribute a biological son to God.that is monstrous!!!

Holy Quran 19:35
"It is not [befitting] for Allah to beget a son; exalted is He! When He decrees an affair, He only says to it, "Be," and it is".

Holy Quran 19:88-93
"And they say, "The Most Merciful has taken [for Himself] a son.You have done an atrocious thing.The heavens almost rupture therefrom and the earth splits open and the mountains collapse in devastation.That they attribute to the Most Merciful a son.And it is notappropriate for the Most Merciful that He should take a son.There is no one in the heavens and earth but that he comes to the Most Merciful as a servant".

duplicate of the above post.

LagosShia:

"sons of God" is figurative.can't you see that from the verse? anyone who obeys God is a slave.that is also in the other verse.

if you want to claim figuratively being the "son" of God,i can also tell you i am "a son of God" figuratively.if you claim christians are "sons of God",i can also tell you Muslims are "sons of God" figuratively.we Muslims also obey God and are proud to be His servants and slaves.this is all in accord with the bible.

now the reason one of the names we Muslims refer to Allah (swt) among the most beautiful names is not "father" or "Aba",is because of the monsterous claim christians have placed on God and His servant Jesus (as).you have made the figurative literal,and have made Jesus (as) as many others not a "son" figuratively because he was "led by the spirit" (i.e. being righteous and obedient to God) but literally a "son".you have used his miraculous birth which demonstrates God's creational power to attribute a biological son to God.that is monstrous!!!

Holy Quran 19:35
"It is not [befitting] for Allah to beget a son; exalted is He! When He decrees an affair, He only says to it, "Be," and it is".

Holy Quran 19:88-93
"And they say, "The Most Merciful has taken [for Himself] a son.You have done an atrocious thing.The heavens almost rupture therefrom and the earth splits open and the mountains collapse in devastation.That they attribute to the Most Merciful a son.And it is notappropriate for the Most Merciful that He should take a son.There is no one in the heavens and earth but that he comes to the Most Merciful as a servant".

Remember you quoted the verse yourself.
If 'son' as used there is figurative and actually means slave, then why would the very next verse emphasize that those who are led by the Spirit are not slaves but sons? Notice it even goes on to tell us we are co-heirs with Christ.
Don't chery pick scripture just for argument sake to the point that you accept one verse while rejecting the very next verse following it. I hope you don't also cherry-pick verses of the quran too.

When a Christian calls himself a servant of God, it is a term used in humility because we are emulating Jesus who first humbled Himself.

Read my initial response to Sweetnecta in post 168

Mr_Anony:
Remember you quoted the verse yourself.
If 'son' as used there is figurative and actually means slave, then why would the very next verse emphasize that those who are led by the Spirit are not slaves but sons? Notice it even goes on to tell us we are co-heirs with Christ.
Don't chery pick scripture just for argument sake to the point that you accept one verse while rejecting the very next verse following it. I hope you don't also cherry-pick verses of the quran too.

When a Christian calls himself a servant of God, it is a term used in humility because we are emulating Jesus who first humbled Himself.

Read my initial response to Sweetnecta in post 168

let me give you a shocker here.you forcing yourself to be blind isn't working well for you.

how does one become a "son of God" according to you? i actually saved this part of your previous post for now.

this is what you said:

"the very verse tells us that we are the sons of God if we yield to His leading."

see the way you dishonestly used your words.what do you mean by "His leading"? you mean we become "sons of God" by obeying Him!!! you did not want to use the word "obey" because the other bible verse says you become the slave of the one you obey.

so in clear terms,you can only become a "son" of God if you obey Him/become a slave.

"led by the spirit" means obeying God and being righteous.

i did not leave out anything.whether you later become "heirs" or whatever is figurative.according to the Quran and also as recorded in the psalms of the bible,it is the righteous servants that will inherit the earth.it doesn't mean God have to die as your father would before righteous people inherit the earth.

this case of being obedient and righteous ("led by the spirit" ) and become a "son of God" figuratively,is not the same way as when your father pregnate your mother and you become his biological son and nothing will change that.in the case of God it is figurative but you christians apply it literally on Jesus (as).it is very clear that the moment you stop being obedient and a slave to God,you no longer would be His "son" figuratively because then you would not be "led by the spirit".now we muslims understand the importance of total obedience to God and submitting ourselves to God while you christians are busy fooling yourself with a word calling yourself a name ("sons of God" ) that will not benefit you if your actions do not justify and merit the name.yet,you want to blackmail us Muslims of being "slaves" and you boasting being "sons" while you can never be a "son" figuratively based on the bible except by becoming a slave of God i.e. obedient to God!!!

Mr Anony is calling me his friend. Is your right. And I also have my right so not quite your friend because we have nothing in common. Nothing.

@Mr Anony:

by Mr_Anony(m): 11:14pm On Aug 14

Sweetnecta: @Mr Anony:

While Mr Anony is deceiving himself as "son of God", Jesus was wise to take the position of a slave, the very same position we muslims take.

Mr Anony continue in your deceit because you are even less than Paul who says he is a slave of Jesus, who himself is a slave like I am to the same God, you are claiming to be your father.

But Jesus has already answered you in your deceit by telling you that he will tell you to get away from him because he does not know you, you doer of iniquity.

I see that you have posted some bible verses to prove your point. I'll take it that you believe those bible verses to be true. Now let us examine them:-

Bible is not my thing, but it is your thing so I am using it as evidential source in our dialogue. Let me say this; When you dispute the verse[s] in your Bible, to me you have fallen out of christianity, you just dont that is the case.

New International Version (©1984)
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings. James 1:1

1 I, Paul, am a devoted slave of Jesus Christ on assignment, authorized as an apostle to proclaim God's words and acts. I write this letter to all the Christians in Rome, God's friends Romans 1:1

Why do Paul and James refer to themselves here as servants of God? Let us continue...

were the not is the question for you?

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. “Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ ” -Matthew 7:21-23

I just added verse 21 which you omitted to show you that Jesus is the Son of God and not servant.

Will verse 21 you added going to render the above invalid?

New Living Translation (©2007)
You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.

Jesus was also a slave/servant of God, said his 11 disciples after he was lifted up to heaven and after the demise of Judas Iscariot.

Though he was God,

Did Jesus say he was God while God was not shy to say that He is God and demanded he be worshiped, even as Jesus also fell into the category of those who worshiped this very bold God? Please show us where Jesus said he was God and thereby deserved to be worshiped, while he worshiped God, all night long? Do you think Yahweh worshiped Jesus as Jesus worshiped Yahweh? Who is the real God here if you are sincere?

he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form, Philippians 2:5-7

Make up! This is similar to Big Apple circus promo! When did Jesus give this about himself, while he was on earth for 3 years, preaching? If Jesus did not say this to anyone while people could hear his voice among men, how can we believe what was said about him from a person who he did not meet? Interestingly to note that Jesus was reported to have shouted "My God, my God . . . " and was reported to have been lifted to heaven by God. Not by himself. But by God Almighty Whom he worshiped and Whom he said is the Real Power making things happened because Jesus was powerless.

I have added verse 5 and 6 which you omitted so that you can know that Jesus is God[/quote[Jesus aint God. You hear me, while you are playing yourself? There is Only One God and He aint Jesus son of Mary!


[quote]but He humbled Himself as a servant and was born a human being.

Crappola. There is no evidence that Jesus said to anyone what you just quote, because he was prophet who was "not recognized in his own town" and "son of man" among indicators that he was no God but 100% man! I will chalk this up as one of the many ideas that became prevalent that the another comforter [sa] corrected and the correction is in the Book that corrects; The ALQuran.

When he appeared in human form, Philippians 2:5-7

Did God ever appeared to anyone in Human FORM? No, because no one can see God and live. No one has seen God at anytime, said Jesus! Continue to say for Jesus what Jesus didnt say for himself.

I have added verse 5 and 6 which you omitted so that you can know that Jesus is God but He humbled Himself as a servant and was born a human being. We are also encouraged to be humble like Him and that is why you see the disciples referring to themselves sometimes as servants.

Who do you think you are driving on the wrong lane? Who told you to humble yourself like Jesus humbled himself? Did Jesus tell you that? Did Jesus say he is God? Is Yahweh subject to all that are human that Jesus was subject to like the rest of us? Did Jesus receive worship from Yahweh and Yahweh obviously received worship from Jesus? Where is any evidence that Jesus is God, except what Paul who is unknown to Jesus was writing? If Jesus was anything other than being a human prophet of God, why were the true disciples of Jesus against Jesus, so much so that Paul resorted to arm strong tactics, using the authority to suppress "Other Gospel"?

Human prophets [as] were all humbled before their God: All of them prostrated, ate, etc. Tell me whats different in what Jesus did, even his obeying the laws and the prophets and warning you that these must be continued, a thing that Paul threw out, unceremoniously.

You can look up these verses in a bible for yourself so you know I am not making things up. Remember it was you that originally came up with the verses and not me.

do you now rendered the verses that I posted useless by your own "explanations" from what Paul said? Is your argument sensible to you? If it is, then what the nl surrogate of the Nigeria is saying about him crushing Boo Haram in June is what he accomplished while we know he is passive about Boko Haram, which has becomes an international sore.

Who will speak most clearly about Jesus from this list:
1]. Mr Anony by his explanations, above?

2]. Paul by his letters?

3]. Jesus by his red lettered verses?

Please permit me to show you other verses of scripture:


Yet to all who did receive him (Jesus Christ), to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God — children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. John 1:12-13 NIV

Who is the speaker, here Jesus or somebody else?

contrast the above to the below?. Who has said the truth about Jesus, Jesus below who has a Lord Who is God of all or the unknown author of the above verse in John, since it is clear that no everything in the gospel was said by Jesus and there are more that one gospel, anyway, and there in no uniformity is even a common story to all or some [list of fathers in the genealogies are simple evident of inconsistencies and you cant trust inconsistency].

hear yea, oh Israel; your Lord, our God is One God [said Jesus in the letter verses]

(you can read the whole of John 1 for yourself to be sure)

i have had enough of it the reason i talk about Islam to people.

So you have not received a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. Instead, you received God’s Spirit when he adopted you as his own children. Now we call him, “Abba, Father.” Romans 8:15 NLT

the master himself, Jesus son of Mary say My God, my God [In his name tongue: Ellah, Ellah]. Whoever said "abba" [father] has you written is clearly in error and Jesus disagrees with him. You can not find any agreement so you have to throw one out.

But which one, Mr. Anony?

(this is Paul speaking to Christians here...again feel free to read the whole chapter yourself so you see if I am twisting it out of context or not)

I no send am. Jesus no send am. The true disciples have been hood winkled, gagged, muscled.

God loves us so much He prefers us to become His sons that to continue being slaves. God's doors are open for us my brother. Please don't turn your back on Him. We are also encouraged to be humble like Him and that is why you see the disciples referring to themselves sometimes as servants.

and Jesus will disowned you first before the throwing into the lake of fire? is this the end of "true" sons? Wake up, man.

You can look up these verses in a bible for yourself so you know I am not making things up. Remember it was you that originally came up with the verses and not me.

Please permit me to show you other verses of scripture:


Yet to all who did receive him (Jesus Christ), to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God — children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. John 1:12-13 NIV

who is speaker here: Jesus or somebody else? It is easy to say Jesus said this or that after he was gone by the permission of God. What did Jesus say but saying he is powerless, a slave, a servant, messenger, prophet? What did the 11 preached before came on the scene and took over everything? Jesus was a messenger of God and we must expect the Another Comforter soon at some point in the future, just like Jesus was to return while the some of the 12 disciples will still be alive, and now 2000 years plus and we still have to count some more.

(you can read the whole of John 1 for yourself to be sure)

So you have not received a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. Instead, you received God’s Spirit when he adopted you as his own children. Now we call him, “Abba, Father.” Romans 8:15 NLT

did Jesus mentioned The Name of God? In the Bible, just once; On the cross if we accept it to just present a definite argument. The Name of God to Jesus of the cross is Ellah and there was no father/son relationship mentioned by Jesus when this is the most crucial place he should truly revealed his position. Incidentally, it is God/messenger we can deduce.

(this is Paul speaking to Christians here...again feel free to read the whole chapter yourself so you see if I am twisting it out of context or not)

God loves us so much He prefers us to become His sons that to continue being slaves. God's doors are open for us my brother. Please don't turn your back on Him

let Jesus speak for himself!

I was sent to only the house of Israel because they are lost sheep.
I am a prophet.
I am a son of man.
I can do nothing of my own power.
Hear ye oh Israel our Lord is One God.
Your Lord is my Lord and He is One God
There will be an another comforter after me. He will speak to you. You will hear his voice. He will correct your mistake which would be assumed to be the truth at that time. He will remind of what truth that came from me and rebuke you of the lies you would have spoken about me, saying that I had uttered. He will glorify me as a true christ. He will teach you new things because presently, your faith is too little to hear the full blast of absolute truth.

Did Muhammad [sa] ever spoke to the children of Israel? Yes.
Where? Yathrib, now Madina.


I have tried, within the effort of Jihad to bring you the truth. My brothers in faith have done the same. each of them has done better and they have the energy to continue.

I dont have the same energy that they individually have. It is your choice to accept guidance now, or sometime in your future. No one can do more that this type of advise; dialoguing you.

I will not respond to your post, again. I need to concentrate and talk to others who are not etched in stone. may God help us all.

LagosShia:

let me give you a shocker here.you forcing yourself to be blind isn't working well for you.

how does one become a "son of God" according to you? i actually saved this part of your previous post for now.

this is what you said:

"the very verse tells us that we are the sons of God if we yield to His leading."

see the way you dishonestly used your words.what do you means by "His leading"? you mean we become "sons of God" by obeying Him!!! you did not want to use the word "obey" because the other bible verse says you become the slave of the one you obey.

so in clear terms,you can only become a "son" of God if you obey Him/become a slave.

"led by the spirit" means obeying God and being righteous.

LOL, shocker you say? I think not. Of course yeilding to His leading means obeying Him, I purposely wanted to render it in a similar way as the verse because knowing you, if I had said "those that obey Him" are the sons of God, you would have immediately accused me of twisting the scripture and changing "obey" to "led"
let us render it in this way if you so wish then, It still reads more or less the same:

Romans 8:14-17 (NIV)
14 For those who obey God are the children of God.
15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."
16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.
17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

i did not leave out anything.whether you later become "heirs" or whatever is figurative.according to the Quran and also as recorded in the psalms of the bible,it is the righteous servants that will inherit the earth.it doesn't mean God have to die as your father would before righteous people inherit the earth.

The verse does not say that we later become heirs but that we are heirs.

this case of being obedient and righteous ("led by the spirit" ) and become a "son of God" figuratively,is not the same way as when your father pregnate your mother and you become his biological son and nothing will change that.in the case of God it is figurative but you christians apply it literally on Jesus (as).it is very clear that the moment you stop being obedient and a slave to God,you no longer would be His "son" figuratively because then you would not be "led by the spirit".now we muslims understand the importance of total obedience to God and submitting ourselves to God while you christians are busy fooling yourself with a word calling yourself a name ("sons of God" ) that will not benefit you if your actions do not justify and merit the name.yet,you want to blackmail us Muslims of being "slaves" and you boasting being "sons" while you can never be a "son" figuratively based on the bible except by becoming a slave of God i.e. obedient to God!!!

there is no blackmail or anything of the sort, I am just trying to show you how God loves you much more than you think.

Mr_Anony:

LOL, shocker you say? I think not. Of course yeilding to His leading means obeying Him, I purposely wanted to render it in a similar way as the verse because knowing you, if I had said "those that obey Him" are the sons of God, you would have immediately accused me of twisting the scripture and changing "obey" to "led"
let us render it in this way if you so wish then, It still reads more or less the same:

Romans 8:14-17 (NIV)
14 For those who obey God are the children of God.
15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."
16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.
17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.



The verse does not say that we later become heirs but that we are heirs.


there is no blackmail or anything of the sort, I am just trying to show you how God loves you much more than you think.

Mr.Anony,

i did not make any sense of your above post.i see it as rambling.i like being honest and straightforward.in that way i wont feel you're wasting my time talking to you.

let me ask you this:

Do you agree that in order to become a "son" figuratively,you must be obedient to God which means according to the bible being a slave?

LagosShia:


Mr.Anony,

i did not make any sense of your above post.i see it as rambling.i like being honest and straightforward.in that way i wont feel you're wasting my time talking to you.

let me ask you this:

Do you agree that in order to become a "son" figuratively,you must be obedient to God which means according to the bible being a slave?

in order to become one of God's sons, you must accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God who gave His life for us(the bible refers to this as adoption or being born again/born into God's family) it is within this framework of sonship that we obey God.

What I am saying is that as long as an heir is underage, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate.
The heir is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. So also, when we were underage, we were in slavery under the elemental spiritual forces of the world.

But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.

Because we are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba , Father." So we are no longer slaves, but God's children; and since we are His children, God has made us also heirs.

God loves us too much, we are not servants but sons. . . . .and I am not in any way speaking fguratively

Mr_Anony:
in order to become one of God's sons, you must accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God who gave His life for us(the bible refers to this as adoption or being born again/born into God's family) it is within this framework of sonship that we obey God.

What I am saying is that as long as an heir is underage, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate.
The heir is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. So also, when we were underage, we were in slavery under the elemental spiritual forces of the world.

But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.

Because we are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba , Father." So we are no longer slaves, but God's children; and since we are His children, God has made us also heirs.

God loves us too much, we are not servants but sons. . . . .and I am not in any way speaking fguratively

Mr. Anony,
I am not interested to know how you go about obeying God.you have your ways and I have mine.so please do not shift the topic.also we've previously discussed christian beliefs on the concept of salvation.

here is my question:

Do you agree that in order to become a "son" figuratively,you must be obedient to God which means according to the bible being a slave?

LagosShia:



Mr. Anony,
I am not interested to know how you go about obeying God.you have your ways and I have mine.so please do not shift the topic.also we've previously discussed christian beliefs on the concept of salvation.

here is my question:

Do you agree that in order to become a "son" figuratively,you must be obedient to God which means according to the bible being a slave?

I think my first answer was good enough.

You do not become God's son 'figuratively'. You only become God's son by being born-again which is a function of His grace