https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRRWMB0RqQY

thanks for sharing.

Onyocha: thanks for sharing.

welcome,welcome,welcome.

Double speak! So we can deal blows in this section but pretend on the front page to be "one"
And when this gets to the front page? We start making tawba?

LagosShia:
i won't even bother to respond to your wahhabi/salafi hatred because it would be inappropriate to do so in this thread
or any thread that appears on the frontpage attracting all sorts of people.i'd just advice you to respect yourself and show the least islamic morals when talking where non-muslims are bent on insulting Islam.

And yet this sham concern for unity?
Subterfuge and chicanery

LagosShia: George Galloway,British MP,speaks on western imperialistic schemes to play on Shia-Sunni difference in the arab and Muslim nations to support the west's objectives and interests.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J6uV6cF0Ds

Anyway the reason the Shias cannot stand Shayk Abdul Wahab is that the Shayk (May Allah have mercy on him), in the true spirit of tawhid, spoke against Shia's love for calling on others beside Allah

Here is a Shia Imam justifying the shrik of calling on others beside Allah. May Allah save us from that sin


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxD7L0fqmPs

BetaThings: Anyway the reason the Shias cannot stand Shayk Abdul Wahab is that the Shayk (May Allah have mercy on him), in the true spirit of tawhid, spoke against Shia's love for calling on others beside Allah

And the constant 'Imam Ali' chants are something else. From seeing LagosShia's posts here that are dedicated to him, it seems to me that Shiite Muslims have more regard for him than the Prophet.

E_monkey:
And the constant 'Imam Ali' chants are something else. From seeing LagosShia's posts here that are dedicated to him, it seems to me that Shiite Muslims have more regard for him than the Prophet.

It's like an open secret.

La ilaha illa Allah

Maclatunji,I never knew you're such an hypocrite.why have my 'LagosShia' account being banned for no violation? Is this how much you fear free speech especially when I am presenting facts and nothing but truth.I presented a lecture by a scholar.deal with the message and not the messenger being Shia Muslim and not Sunni.you cannot defend your views by oppressing others and shutting them for no justified reason than expressing themselves.I have always knew you're camouflagging your fanaticism.

@BetaThing
Did you watch the video? I believe you did not.actually you should be grateful to me for presenting this lecture.it can help you cure the wahhabi cult sickness of trying to create phobia/paranoia by attributing shirk to everyone who disagree with you and accusing them of calling on others besides Allah (swt).you're the one committing sin here by accusing others of a great sin like shirk.and this isn't the first time you've done it.you should be banned for that.

@ Monkey
If not for the love of Allah and His Prophet Muhammad (sa),Imam Ali (as) is a nobody.it is the Prophet (sa) who said love for Ali (as) is imaan and hating him is nifaq.don't blame us for being obedient to Muhammad (sa).he is our master and prophet.you observed posts on Imam Ali (as) recently because I was trying to educate people on him since his martyrdom falls in the holy month of ramadan.

Furthermore it is those (Sunnis) who believe shaitan is scared of umar and would run,but cite instances shaitan would lay trap for the Prophet (sa) that you should direct your words at.

I presented a video in another thread BetaThing is copying in this thread.we Sunnis and Shia do have differences.no doubt.but we do not have to oppress one another.the wahhabis/salafis among sunnis weekly attack and massacre Shia Muslims in addition to christians around the world.and this is wrong and distorting the image of Islam.

ShiaLagos: Maclatunji,I never knew you're such an hypocrite.why have my 'LagosShia' account being banned for no violation? Is this how much you fear free speech especially when I am presenting facts and nothing but truth.I presented a lecture by a scholar.deal with the message and not the messenger being Shia Muslim and not Sunni.you cannot defend your views by oppressing others and shutting them for no justified reason than expressing themselves.I have always knew you're camouflagging your fanaticism.

@BetaThing
Did you watch the video? I believe you did not.actually you should be grateful to me for presenting this lecture.it can help you cure the wahhabi cult sickness of trying to create phobia/paranoia by attributing shirk to everyone who disagree with you and accusing them of calling on others besides Allah (swt).you're the one committing sin here by accusing others of a great sin like shirk.and this isn't the first time you've done it.you should be banned for that.

@ Monkey
If not for the love of Allah and His Prophet Muhammad (sa),Imam Ali (as) is a nobody.it is the Prophet (sa) who said love for Ali (as) is imaan and hating him is nifaq.don't blame us for being obedient to Muhammad (sa).he is our master and prophet.you observed posts on Imam Ali (as) recently because I was trying to educate people on him since his martyrdom falls in the holy month of ramadan.

Furthermore it is those (Sunnis) who believe shaitan is scared of umar and would run,but cite instances shaitan would lay trap for the Prophet (sa) that you should direct your words at.

I presented a video in another thread BetaThing is copying in this thread.we Sunnis and Shia do have differences.no doubt.but we do not have to oppress one another.the wahhabis/salafis among sunnis weekly attack and massacre Shia Muslims in addition to christians around the world.and this is wrong and distorting the image of Islam.

I didn't ban you LagosShia. I have checked your profile, I see no ban in effect too.

maclatunji:

I didn't ban you LagosShia. I have checked your profile, I see no ban in effect too.

but i cannot log into my account.

i am contemplating leaving your forum Sir.and would do so at the appropriate time.

^Talk about drama. Well, I still don't see a ban on you and I can guarantee that I have not banned you today. You are free to do whatever you like.

It is a free world.

maclatunji: ^Talk about drama. Well, I still don't see a ban on you and I can guarantee that I have not banned you today. You are free to do whatever you like.

It is a free world.

there is no problem.

but it doesn't change the fact that you tolerate your Sunni brothers especially the ones with fanatical wahhabi aka salafist ignorance to collectively rain insults and abuses on the term "Shia".

and whenever the word "wahhabi" aka "salafist" is mentioned,one can sense people shaking like fire is burning them from under.

i am here to preach,but it doesn't mean i should be subjected to oppression and persecution.

with such attitude one ought to wonder when would we start having wahhabi suicide bombers targeting Shia Muslims even in Nigeria,as we see often in other countries and also against Christians in Nigeria:

https://www.nairaland.com/961495/timeline-sectarian-terrorism-against-shia

ShiaLagos:

there is no problem.

but it doesn't change the fact that you tolerate your Sunni brothers especially the ones with fanatical wahhabi aka salafist ignorance to collectively rain insults and abuses on the term "Shia".

and whenever the word "wahhabi" aka "salafist" is mentioned,one can sense people shaking like fire is burning them from under.

i am here to preach,but it doesn't mean i should be subjected to oppression and persecution.

with such attitude one ought to wonder when would we start having wahhabi suicide bombers targeting Shia Muslims even in Nigeria,as we see often in other countries and also against Christians in Nigeria:

https://www.nairaland.com/961495/timeline-sectarian-terrorism-against-shia

Because Sunnis don't cause anyone
What is the purpose of moderation if people can do whatever they like

BetaThings:

Because Sunnis don't cause anyone
What is the purpose of moderation if people can do whatever they like

Thanks for this very insightful post.and also thanks for reminding me that all Sunnis and anyone who is Sunni is an angel roaming the earth with four wings.

A good example of bigotry-trying to justify his entire group when he can't justify himself!

LagosShia:

Thanks for this very insightful post.and also thanks for reminding me that all Sunnis and anyone who is Sunni is an angel roaming the earth with four wings.

A good example of bigotry-trying to justify his entire group when he can't justify himself!

Unlike the fantastic stories about usurpation that the entire Shia movement is based upon, we can verify the conduct of Sunnis and Shias posters on NL
Do you want to take up the challenge?

BetaThings:

Unlike the fantastic stories about usurpation that the entire Shia movement is based upon, we can verify the conduct of Sunnis and Shias posters on NL
Do you want to take up the challenge?

don't be bitter my friend by using words to divert the topic.here is your beloved Umar narrating the "fantastic stories":

https://www.nairaland.com/897586/umars-admission-caliphate-usurped-imam

you can verify the conduct of Sunnis and Shia posters here.i did not claim Shia Muslims here are angels with four wings.nonetheless,the Sunnis are not better in any way.i can also bring you instances of Sunni posters here.you would be my first example.

ShiaLagos:
@BetaThing
Did you watch the video? I believe you did not.actually you should be grateful to me for presenting this lecture.it can help you cure the wahhabi cult sickness of trying to create phobia/paranoia
.

Oh that job by the successor to Goebbels? Yes, I survived the attempt at doing a brain transplant on me! Thanks for your on-24 efforts
Sickness, phobia/paranoia - Hahaha. I can see that you are in your ebullient element.

ShiaLagos:
@BetaThing
by attributing shirk to everyone who disagree with you and accusing them of calling on others besides Allah (swt).you're the one committing sin here by accusing others of a great sin like shirk.and this isn't the first time you've done it.you should be banned for that.
.

We disagreed on taraweeh, didn't we?
I don't mind people disagreeing with me provided they don't
1. Insult Allah and His Messneger (PBUH)
2. Suggest or invite people to submit to a being other than Allah.

Your Sheik said we should call on Ali. Sorry that is manifest, clear and blatant Shrik!!!

ShiaLagos:

@BetaThing
.and this isn't the first time you've done it.you should be banned for that.

Yes. And when you made takfir on me, did they ban you?
I don't think I got the memo where we were told that you can call people names while others cannot point out the clear misguidance in your aqeeda and manhaj

ShiaLagos:
Furthermore it is those (Sunnis) who believe shaitan is scared of umar and would run,but cite instances shaitan would lay trap for the Prophet (sa) that you should direct your words at.

I presented a video in another thread BetaThing is copying in this thread.we Sunnis and Shia do have differences.no doubt.but we do not have to oppress one another.the wahhabis/salafis among sunnis weekly attack and massacre Shia Muslims in addition to christians around the world.and this is wrong and distorting the image of Islam.

Yes, all the problems of this world are caused by Sunnis!
So much for not oppressing. Please spare us the lies

It is on record that
Shias kill in QUICK TIME

BetaThings:

We disagreed on taraweeh, didn't we?
I don't mind people disagreeing with me provided they don't
1. Insult Allah and His Messneger (PBUH)

so i have insulted Allah (swt) and His Messenger (sa)? where? how can you make such cheap accusations that are expired? this is wahhabi style to scare people of others.

2. Suggest or invite people to submit to a being other than Allah.

Your Sheik said we should call on Ali. Sorry that is manifest, clear and blatant Shrik!!!

"Nade-Ali" is a supplication to Allah (swt).there is nowhere in what the Shia scholar in the video you posted amount to shirk.no Shia Muslim believe Imam Ali (as) is a "god" or is equal to Allah (swt) in anyway.even in "Nade Ali" a supplication for intercession,you clearly see the difference between Allah (swt) and His servants and also see the prophethood of Muhammad (sa) mentioned in it as means of intercession.

"Nade Ali" is narrated also in a Sunni book of hadith and is authentic,first recited by Prophet Muhammad (sa):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yspG1dXwsc0

Yes. And when you made takfir on me, did they ban you?

i have explained that i am not a marja-at-taqlid and i cannot do takfir on you.

i consider you a Muslim and i do not consider you a mushrik as you consider other Muslims.are you happy?

I don't think I got the memo where we were told that you can call people names while others cannot point out the clear misguidance in your aqeeda and manhaj

talking nonsense as usual.pretending you know what you are talking about when you do not.go and read.it doesn't hurt.IQRA!

Yes, all the problems of this world are caused by Sunnis!
So much for not oppressing. Please spare us the lies

since the day Prophet Muhammad (sa) passed away,the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and their Shia have been oppressed.you can guess who is the oppressor over the ages.

It is on record that
Shias kill in QUICK TIME

the problem is not the killing matter.the Quran does not forbid killing if it is to promote justice and fight corruption and tyranny.the problem in killing is when you strike at others in their places of worship killing innocent people for having different beliefs than yours.that is the peak of intolerance and extremism and outright terrorism contrary to the teachings of Islam.i am yet to hear of a Shia suicide bomber entering a Sunni mosque anywhere in the world to kill innocent people for having different beliefs.it does not happen because that action is against the Holy Quranic teachings.

but all the time sometimes on a daily basis,up to this day,and all over the world,from Shia mosques and places of worship to christian churches,we know of those who carry out the attacks.they are the ones you're defending and cheering for:

"A Timeline Of Sectarian Terrorism Against Shia Muslims":
https://www.nairaland.com/961495/timeline-sectarian-terrorism-against-shia

Holy Quran 2:256
"There is no compulsion in religion"

Holy Quran 18:29
"And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve...."

Holy Quran 17:33
"And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right. And whoever is killed unjustly - We have given his heir authority, but let him not exceed limits in [the matter of] taking life. Indeed, he has been supported [by the law]".

Holy Quran 5:32
"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors".

BetaThings:
Double speak! So we can deal blows in this section but pretend on the front page to be "one"
And when this gets to the front page? We start making tawba?



And yet this sham concern for unity?
Subterfuge and chicanery

Truly that is what we see every now and then, . . ., to me such behaviour are indictive and clearly shows there is a serious problem somewhere!

LagosShia:

so i have insulted Allah (swt) and His Messenger (sa)? where? how can you make such cheap accusations that are expired? this is wahhabi style to scare people of others.

Can you spend one day without name calling
Can you keep an open mind about things
If you commit that sin, I will draw your attention to it. I gave general conditions - number 1 applies to those christians that you know. I drew the attention of one of them to it, he persisted. Although I once pointed out to you that those who so indulge themselves don't deserve any response from you, but you continued speaking with them and even said they were better than some muslims. Have they now repented from insulting Allah and His Prophet (PBUH)?

LagosShia:

"Nade-Ali" is a supplication to Allah (swt).there is nowhere in what the Shia scholar in the video you posted amount to shirk.no Shia Muslim believe Imam Ali (as) is a "god" or is equal to Allah (swt) in anyway.even in "Nade Ali" a supplication for intercession,you clearly see the difference between Allah (swt) and His servants and also see the prophethood of Muhammad (sa) mentioned in it as means of intercession.

"Nade Ali" is narrated also in a Sunni book of hadith and is authentic,first recited by Prophet Muhammad (sa):

This is exactly what we call shirk - making a dead person an intercessor.
The dead cannot help the living.
No one who is not present can be called upon for help. That is one major difference between Islam and christianity
All those videos just go to deepen the sea of shirk which some muslims inhabit
May Allah show us guidance. The foundation is there, just leave the uncertain for certain.
There is no sin that is too grievous for Allah to forgive if we address Him directly. We don't need an intercessor at this time. That will wait till after our death

LagosShia:

i have explained that i am not a marja-at-taqlid and i cannot do takfir on you.

i consider you a Muslim and i do not consider you a mushrik as you consider other Muslims.are you happy?

.

I am actually happy for you really. When you made those statements, you did not indicate your status. I also know that you are knowledgeable enough to know that people make takfir without authority but there is a punishment for that
The takfir did not bother me because you were the one running the risk

LagosShia: ^

please you guys should disregard BetaThing.he is a wahhabi aka salafist.they are not true Muslims but terrorists and extremists.

LagosShia:

Muslims? i was not referring to Muslims.i was referring to those wahhabis aka salafists who claim to be Muslims and yet go about beheading Muslims because they refuse to embrace their own ideology.

LagosShia:

since the day Prophet Muhammad (sa) passed away,the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and their Shia have been oppressed.you can guess who is the oppressor over the ages.

Yes, the bogey man!

LagosShia:

the problem is not the killing matter.the Quran does not forbid killing if it is to promote justice and fight corruption and tyranny.the problem in killing is when you strike at others in their places of worship killing innocent people for having different beliefs than yours.that is the peak of intolerance and extremism and outright terrorism contrary to the teachings of Islam.i am yet to hear of a Shia suicide bomber entering a Sunni mosque anywhere in the world to kill innocent people for having different beliefs.it does not happen because that action is against the Holy Quranic teachings.

.

When Shias murder innocent souls, they resort to some blandishments
Everyone knows that the shias have an organised strike force
The assassination attempt by the Iranian Rep Guard against Saudi Ambassador to the US was a lawful attempt justified by need to fight tyranny
And everyone knows that Iran is plotting a regime change in Saudi Arabia
We would have to become Shias to perform Hajj then

LagosShia:

but all the time sometimes on a daily basis,up to this day,and all over the world,from Shia mosques and places of worship to christian churches,we know of those who carry out the attacks.they are the ones you're defending and cheering for:

"A Timeline Of Sectarian Terrorism Against Shia Muslims":
https://www.nairaland.com/961495/timeline-sectarian-terrorism-against-shia

Holy Quran 2:256
"There is no compulsion in religion"

Holy Quran 18:29
"And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve...."

Holy Quran 17:33
"And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right. And whoever is killed unjustly - We have given his heir authority, but let him not exceed limits in [the matter of] taking life. Indeed, he has been supported [by the law]".

Holy Quran 5:32
"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors".

And I support Boko Haram and Al Qaeda? Right?
The truth is that you have no regard for the truth

BetaThings:
Can you spend one day without name calling
Can you keep an open mind about things
If you commit that sin, I will draw your attention to it. I gave general conditions - number 1 applies to those christians that you know. I drew the attention of one of them to it, he persisted. Although I once pointed out to you that those who so indulge themselves don't deserve any response from you, but you continued speaking with them and even said they were better than some muslims. Have they now repented from insulting Allah and His Prophet (PBUH)?

please the question is simple: where did i,a Shia Muslim, insult Allah (swt) and His messenger (sa)?

This is exactly what we call shirk - making a dead person an intercessor.
The dead cannot help the living.
No one who is not present can be called upon for help. That is one major difference between Islam and christianity
All those videos just go to deepen the sea of shirk which some muslims inhabit
May Allah show us guidance. The foundation is there, just leave the uncertain for certain.
There is no sin that is too grievous for Allah to forgive if we address Him directly. We don't need an intercessor at this time. That will wait till after our death

Shirk is when one believes in someone or something to be a "god" other than Allah (swt) or besides Allah (swt).

intercession (SHAFA'A) is in the Quran and it doesn't mean those who do shafa'a or seek wasila (intermediary) is making anyone a "god" beside Allah (swt) or besides Allah (swt).

you are paranoid.

When Shias murder innocent souls, they resort to some blandishments
Everyone knows that the shias have an organised strike force
The assassination attempt by the Iranian Rep Guard against Saudi Ambassador to the US was a lawful attempt justified by need to fight tyranny
And everyone knows that Iran is plotting a regime change in Saudi Arabia
We would have to become Shias to perform Hajj then

first,Iran is a country.Iran is not a group of wahhabi terrorists issuing fatwas on their own and fighting their jihad killing innocent people for having different beliefs.the rivalry between Iran and america isn't a case of persecution.it is political and a fight for interests.

there is a political situation and rivalry between Iran and the USA and its puppet,saudi arabia.Iranian nuclear scientists have being murdered in cold blood by saudi arabia's masters.

yet still,Iran refused to accept the accusation that it was plotting to assasinate the saudi ambassador to the USA.for God sake,who is this ambassador? and what help would he give to Iran? for what would he be killed?

heck,even the americans whose government made the accusation did not believe their own government.america and britain were the same governments that lied saddam was going to develop a nuclear weapon in 48 hours and used that as pretext to launch the invasion of iraq and the destruction of that country and the killing of over a million people.

you have the courage to believe such american propaganda? the same happened too in thailand and india.israelis were attacked,and the blame is on iran and hezbollah.these are political accusations against those perceived as the arch-enemy.later on,it was discovered those who carried the attacks in thailand actually staged the attacks and they were israeli agents.

in 1982,it was the "attempted assasination" of the israeli ambassador to the UK blamed on palestinian factions based in lebanon that Israel used as pretext to launch its invasion of lebanon.

the USA,Israel and its arabian puppets,are beating the drums of war against Iran.so why are you suprised?

it is even funny you're using this to balance the almost daily attacks on Shia civilians by wahhabi terrorists.

And I support Boko Haram and Al Qaeda? Right?
The truth is that you have no regard for the truth

i dont know.but these two groups are influenced by the same ideology you're defending.they adhere to the wahhabi/salafist ideology within Sunni Islam.

LagosShia:

please the question is simple: where did i,a Shia Muslim, insult Allah (swt) and His messenger (sa)?
.

You did not. And I said that much. I just listed the 2 things that people would do to annoy me. My issue with you is no 2

LagosShia:

Shirk is when one believes in someone or something to be a "god" other than Allah (swt) or besides Allah (swt).

intercession (SHAFA'A) is in the Quran and it doesn't mean those who do shafa'a or seek wasila (intermediary) is making anyone a "god" beside Allah (swt) or besides Allah (swt). .

I persist in my conviction that asking the Prophet (PBUH), Abu Bakr (RA), Umar (RA), Uthman (RA), Ali (RA)etc to intercede with Allah is shirk
We could ask them when they were alive
We hope to ask the Prophet (PBUH) on the day of Qiyama
Were it possible, I would only ask the Prophet (PBUH) only. And again, I wouldn't because it is haram
Please, let us drop this matter because it is a matter (just like Mut'ah, Ashura, interpretation of hadith Kisa, thaqalain) that we would never resolve as Sunni and Shia
Scholars did not resolve them. I cannot see an ordinary ignorant person like me doing so

LagosShia:
you are paranoid.

Hahahahahaha

LagosShia:
first,Iran is a country.Iran is not a group of wahhabi terrorists issuing fatwas on their own and fighting their jihad killing innocent people for having different beliefs.the rivalry between Iran and america isn't a case of persecution.it is political and a fight for interests.

there is a political situation and rivalry between Iran and the USA and its puppet,saudi arabia.Iranian nuclear scientists have being murdered in cold blood by saudi arabia's masters.

yet still,Iran refused to accept the accusation that it was plotting to assasinate the saudi ambassador to the USA.for God sake,who is this ambassador? and what help would he give to Iran? for what would he be killed?

heck,even the americans whose government made the accusation did not believe their own government.america and britain were the same governments that lied saddam was going to develop a nuclear weapon in 48 hours and used that as pretext to launch the invasion of iraq and the destruction of that country and the killing of over a million people.

you have the courage to believe such american propaganda? the same happened too in thailand and india.israelis were attacked,and the blame is on iran and hezbollah.these are political accusations against those perceived as the arch-enemy.later on,it was discovered those who carried the attacks in thailand actually staged the attacks and they were israeli agents.

in 1982,it was the "attempted assasination" of the israeli ambassador to the UK blamed on palestinian factions based in lebanon that Israel used as pretext to launch its invasion of lebanon.

the USA,Israel and its arabian puppets,are beating the drums of war against Iran.so why are you suprised?

it is even funny you're using this to balance the almost daily attacks on Shia civilians by wahhabi terrorists.

I hope you know that no one believes that Iran is innocent
Hizbollah, Iran's ally, does not make any bones about firing rockets into non-military targets
My views - Iran carries out terrorists acts because Shias do not believe in playing dead - they fight back. But because of world opinion they keep it quiet and deny responsibility. But the targets know who their attackers are. So Iran has the best of both worlds
But Al Qaeda and Boko Haram are noise makers
BTW - Were I in charge in Saudi Arabia and a vindictive country like Iran calls me an illegal occupier, I would sign a pact with those who can assist me
If anyone likes, let them call me a puppet. Rather that than become a victim of bloodthirsty and ruthless empire builder
Even Russia signed an agreement with Germany prior to WWII in order to have peace
BTW are you never tired of this constant allusion to Wahabi is beginning to grate

LagosShia:
i dont know.but these two groups are influenced by the same ideology you're defending.they adhere to the wahhabi/salafist ideology within Sunni Islam.

Boko Haram cannot be influenced by the writings of Shayk Abdul Wahab and the scholars that I know call themselves salafi
They have denounced suicide bombing since 9/11
They would have declared those guys khawarij

BetaThings:

You did not. And I said that much. I just listed the 2 things that people would do to annoy me. My issue with you is no 2

thanks.

I persist in my conviction that asking the Prophet (PBUH), Abu Bakr (RA), Umar (RA), Uthman (RA), Ali (RA)etc to intercede with Allah is shirk

seriously do you think if you were allowed to follow the Quran and do intercession,you'd do intercession with someone like Abu Bakr,Umar and Usthman? as in seriously? lol


Holy Quran 5:35
"O you who have believed, fear Allah and seek an intermediary to Him and strive in His cause that you may succeed".

Holy Quran 10:3
"No intercessor can plead with Him except by His permission".

We could ask them when they were alive

but we are not asking them because we believe ultimately it is Allah (swt) that will grant our requests.it is only that in Sha'faa or Tawassul,it is for the sake of those righteous servants of Allah (swt) that our requests are granted by Allah (swt).when we for example say:Ya Muhammad (sa),it is directed towards Allah (swt),that Allah (swt) will have mercy upon us for the sake of Muhammad (sa).

also,whether dead or alive,the position of the Prophet (sa) to Allah (swt) does not change.

also,when you pray,do you recite this:"ASSALMU ALAIKA YA AYYIHAN NABIY" (peace be upon you oh Prophet)? if yes,then isn't he dead?why do you send salam to him?

Holy Qur'an 4: 64
"...Had they, when they had wronged themselves, come to you and asked Allah's forgiveness and the Apostle had asked forgiveness for them, they would certainly have found Allah Most-Propitious, Most-Merciful".

so now the Prophet (sa) isn't among us,dont you think Allah (swt) is ever willing to grant us our requests for his sake?

We hope to ask the Prophet (PBUH) on the day of Qiyama

you are free to wait till Qiyama to commit your own "shirk".but when others do sha'faa or tawassul do not accuse them of "shirk".

you are funny seriously.

Were it possible, I would only ask the Prophet (PBUH) only. And again, I wouldn't because it is haram
Please, let us drop this matter because it is a matter (just like Mut'ah, Ashura, interpretation of hadith Kisa, thaqalain) that we would never resolve as Sunni and Shia
Scholars did not resolve them. I cannot see an ordinary ignorant person like me doing so

ok

I hope you know that no one believes that Iran is innocent
Hizbollah, Iran's ally, does not make any bones about firing rockets into non-military targets
My views - Iran carries out terrorists acts because Shias do not believe in playing dead - they fight back. But because of world opinion they keep it quiet and deny responsibility. But the targets know who their attackers are. So Iran has the best of both worlds

Holy Quran 2:194
"...So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you...."

now tell me,who among the Shia have assaulted Sunni places of worship for them to attack Shia places of worship and kill innocent people just for being Shia? is that defense the Quran is preaching by killing people for having different beliefs and they are within the same religion of Islam.

But Al Qaeda and Boko Haram are noise makers
BTW - Were I in charge in Saudi Arabia and a vindictive country like Iran calls me an illegal occupier, I would sign a pact with those who can assist me
If anyone likes, let them call me a puppet. Rather that than become a victim of bloodthirsty and ruthless empire builder
Even Russia signed an agreement with Germany prior to WWII in order to have peace
BTW are you never tired of this constant allusion to Wahabi is beginning to grate

who is calling who "an illegal occupier"?

Boko Haram cannot be influenced by the writings of Shayk Abdul Wahab and the scholars that I know call themselves salafi
They have denounced suicide bombing since 9/11
They would have declared those guys khawarij

oh,you mean only since 9/11? well terrorism and killing innocent people isnt limited to suicide bombing.

and must we keep repeating and copying the same thing that your Sheikh Ibn Abdul Wahab is a terrorist? watch the lecture in the OP.

Zhul-fiqar:


A Tip of the Ice-Berg:

“Regarding the one that says: ‘I do not declare enmity towards the disbelievers (Musrikeen)' or who declares enmity towards them but did not perform Takfir on them, or the one who says: 'I do not have conflict with people of La Ilaha lallah even if they committed Kufr, Shirk and opposed the religion of Allah' or who says: 'I do not object to the shrines’ this is not a Muslim”! (Majmuatu’l-Tawhid, Risalat Bayyan al-Najat Wal Fikak)

Redefining the meaning of La ilaha illallah and declaring the blood and wealth to be halaal of those who do not accept the new definition (Kitaab ut-Tawhid, ch. 5, pp. 19-21 Eng.; 12-14 of the Arabic).

Ibn `Abdul Wahhaab's statement in Kitaab ut-Tawhid (Arabic version printed by Daar ul-Iftaa, pp. 48-49; the English version translated by Ismaa'il al-Faruqi, Ch. 33, pp. 72-76):

'the kuffar who know their kufr are better in guidance than the believers,'


It is reported that Ibn 'Umar narrated: The Prophet said, "O Allah! Bless our Sham and our Yemen." People said, "Our Najd as well." The Prophet again said, "O Allah! Bless our Sham and Yemen." They said again, "Our Najd as well." On that the Prophet said, "There will appear earthquakes and afflictions, and from there will come out the side of the head of Satan." (Sahihul Bukhari Vol. 2, B. 17, No. 147)

[b]Note:[/b]Ibn Abdul Wahab,the founder of Wahhabism is from Najd.

https://www.nairaland.com/954767/honour-muslims-lost-lives-dana/4#11105070

BetaThing,look at the picture attached below.the Shia President of the Islamic Republic of Iran is being guarded by Saudi Wahhabi forces to visit the grave of Prophet Muhammad (sa) in Medina and commit "shirk"

the saudi authorities always abuse Shia Muslim pilgrims especially during hajj who attempt to visit the grave of the holy Prophet (sa) so that they do not commit "grave worship" and "shirk".

you can see now that wahhabi are only fooling themselves-they know they are exaggerating and making wrong claims against others.

LagosShia: BetaThing,look at the picture attached below.the Shia President of the Islamic Republic of Iran is being guarded by Saudi Wahhabi forces to visit the grave of Prophet Muhammad (sa) in Medina and commit "shirk"

the saudi authorities always abuse Shia Muslim pilgrims especially during hajj who attempt to visit the grave of the holy Prophet (sa) so that they do not commit "grave worship" and "shirk".

you can see now that wahhabi are only fooling themselves-they know they are exaggerating and making wrong claims against others.

1. The Prophet (PBUH) encouraged us to visit graves to remind us of the hereafter
2. We visit graves to pray for the dead believers. We believe that they are dead, we can say salaam to them, but cannot ask them to do anything for us. That errand is futile - they can avail us

The Saudis know others would not commit shirk, but the Shias are always looking for graves
If Ahmadinajad is bent on committing shirk at the grave, Iran would raise hell if he is not allowed (Your efforts here already confirm that the Shias are indefatigable propagandists).
If Ahamadinajad is allowed, the shias would say those guys are fooling themselves

Anyway, the man is old enough to know that he is courting shirk

BetaThings:
1. The Prophet (PBUH) encouraged us to visit graves to remind us of the hereafter
2. We visit graves to pray for the dead believers. We believe that they are dead, we can say salaam to them, but cannot ask them to do anything for us. That errand is futile - they can avail us

The Saudis know others would not commit shirk, but the Shias are always looking for graves
If Ahmadinajad is bent on committing shirk at the grave, Iran would raise hell if he is not allowed (Your efforts here already confirm that the Shias are indefatigable propagandists).
If Ahamadinajad is allowed, the shias would say those guys are fooling themselves

Anyway, the man is old enough to know that he is courting shirk

it is amazing how these wahhabis know who is bent on committing "shirk" and who isn't.are you in the minds of people?how are you sure some muslims in themselves are not committing "shirk" by facing the Ka'ba for instance? is it not all based on intention? then why do you judge the intentions of Shia? do you see your life?

it is amazing also for you to admit that you can say Salam to the Prophet (sa) even though he is dead.but if a Shia says "Ya Muhammad" it amounts to "calling someone besides Allah (swt)".so it is okay for us Muslims to greet the Prophet (sa) who is dead,but it is "shirk" to call out his name.

dont you think you are ridiculous?

LagosShia:

it is amazing how these wahhabis know who is bent on committing "shirk" and who isn't.are you in the minds of people?how are you sure some muslims in themselves are not committing "shirk" by facing the Ka'ba for instance? is it not all based on intention? then why do you judge the intentions of Shia? do you see your life?

it is amazing also for you to admit that you can say Salam to the Prophet (sa) even though he is dead.but if a Shia says "Ya Muhammad" it amounts to "calling someone besides Allah (swt)".so it is okay for us Muslims to greet the Prophet (sa) who is dead,but it is "shirk" to call out his name.

Shias don't stop there, they go ahead and ask him and those people less than for help
Nobody who is dead can avail anyone living anything
Look at the videos again, people are not just saying salaam. They are doing much more. They have strayed into Shirk. People who ask an Imam will do more after mentioning the name of the Prophet (PBUH)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgsaSCkcqF4&feature=related


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxD7L0fqmPs

LagosShia:

dont you think you are ridiculous?

No. I think not

BetaThings:
Shias don't stop there, they go ahead and ask him and those people less than for help
Nobody who is dead can avail anyone living anything
Look at the videos again, people are not just saying salaam. They are doing much more. They have strayed into Shirk. People who ask an Imam will do more after mentioning the name of the Prophet (PBUH)

you are very funny.this is also sad.

so you think it is okay to tell a dead man "salam"-greeting him-and you think he would hear you,or Allah (swt) will hear,but it is not okay to ask that dead man to intercede with Allah (swt),with the same belief that he would hear or at least Allah (swt) is witness and would hear? if the Quran states that the Prophet (sa) asking Allah (swt) for forgiveness is superior,then why do you think if he is dead and can hear,he wouldn't still be the intercessor he was? why would he hear your "salam" but would not hear my request for forgiveness from Allah (swt)? even if he doesn't do anything now,won't it avail us in the hereafter? the fact is whether you send "salam" or ask him for intercession,he hears based on Islamic belief of both the Shia and Sunnis.

Holy Quran 4:64
"And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah . And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful".

Holy Quran 47:19
"So know, [O Muhammad], that there is no deity except Allah and ask forgiveness for your sin and for the believing men and believing women. And Allah knows of your movement and your resting place".

LagosShia:

it is amazing how these wahhabis know who is bent on committing "shirk" and who isn't.are you in the minds of people?how are you sure some muslims in themselves are not committing "shirk" by facing the Ka'ba for instance? is it not all based on intention? then why do you judge the intentions of Shia? do you see your life?

Shias are making phone calls to a grave from foreign countries and actively asking the occupier of the grave to give to them what they need. They are not asking Allah, but the dead body in the grave.

If as Muslims we believe that the best man ever is Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), what do you think the people who make phone calls to graves would do when they get a perhaps once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to visit the Prophet's (PBUH) grave

LagosShia:
do you see your life?

My life? What has it got to do with this? Afterall, I have the opportunity to ask Allah (SWT) directly. I only need to make salawat to the Prophet (PBUH)as the best man ever, the messenger of Allah (PBUH). Yes, while the Prophet (PBUH) was alive, people did ask him (PBUH) to pray to Allah on their behalf. After his death, that door was firmly shut.

LagosShia:

you are very funny.this is also sad.

What is sad is that the Prophet(PBUH) is no longer around to help us make one form of Tawassul

LagosShia:

so you think it is okay to tell a dead man "salam"-greeting him-and you think he would hear you,or Allah (swt) will hear,but it is not okay to ask that dead man to intercede with Allah (swt),with the same belief that he would hear or at least Allah (swt) is witness and would hear?

Yes, I believe that you should say salaam when you visit a grave, but you should not ask for help.
Allah hears us all the time. So it is not a problem

The hadith from Tirmidhi offers guidance on this matter:

Be mindful of Allah, and Allah will protect you. Be mindful of Allah, and you will find Him in front of you. If you ask, ask of Allah; if you seek help, seek help of Allah. Know that if the Nation were to gather together to benefit you with anything, it would benefit you only with something that Allah had already prescribed for you, and that if they gather together to harm you with anything, they would harm you only with something Allah had already prescribed for you. The pens have been lifted and the pages have dried.

LagosShia:

if the Quran states that the Prophet (sa) asking Allah (swt) for forgiveness is superior,then why do you think if he is dead and can hear,he wouldn't still be the intercessor he was? why would he hear your "salam" but would not hear my request for forgiveness from Allah (swt)? even if he doesn't do anything now,won't it avail us in the hereafter? the fact is whether you send "salam" or ask him for intercession,he hears based on Islamic belief of both the Shia and Sunnis.

Holy Quran 4:64
"And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah . And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful".

Holy Quran 47:19
"So know, [O Muhammad], that there is no deity except Allah and ask forgiveness for your sin and for the believing men and believing women. And Allah knows of your movement and your resting place".

Intercession by the Prophet (PBUH) is available on the day of resurrection to every muslim.
We make salawat to the Prophet (PBUH) every day during our salat. We also for pray for every believing man and woman, dead and alive
We ask Allah by the 3 methods of Tawassul - (1) names and attributes of Allah (2) by our good deeds made sincerely seeking the favour of Allah and (3) by asking somebody we believe is righteous. Eg The prayer of parents for children is usually answered

LagosShia:

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 8.578
Narrated 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount." 'Abdullah
added: The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount, and
some of you will be brought in front of me till I will see them and
then they will be taken away from me and I will say, 'O Lord, my
companions!' It will be said, 'You do not know what they did after you
had left.'

The above is a favourite hadith of yours to mislead people into thinking that the same sahabas that were given the good news of going to Jannah apostasised after the death of the Prophet. Of course those referred to in this hadith are not mentioned, but the people informed that they would go to Jannah are known by name, so they are not the same.

However, my point is this. You have to make up your mind: is the Prophet (PBUH) dead that he (PBUH) did not know what his followers did after his death or is he (PBUH) alive making intercession?

BetaThings:
Shias are making phone calls to a grave from foreign countries and actively asking the occupier of the grave to give to them what they need. They are not asking Allah, but the dead body in the grave.

If as Muslims we believe that the best man ever is Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), what do you think the people who make phone calls to graves would do when they get a perhaps once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to visit the Prophet's (PBUH) grave

i can confidently tell you that no Shia makes any phone call to any grave and Shia Muslims are very reasonable people who do not believe a grave can talk or do any good or harm.Wahhabis are dreamers and they hallucinate alot.even if there are Shia Muslims who call to make Tawassul with an Ahlul-Bayt (as) Imam-not his grave-how does that make any difference with you who greet a dead man thousands of miles away? can he hear you thousands of miles away? isn't it better you start calling him with a phone too? it is not like calling with a phone is a Shia practice based on Shia beliefs.Tawassul and Shafa'a which are Islamic and Quranic beliefs is basically what the Shia carry out.

My life? What has it got to do with this? Afterall, I have the opportunity to ask Allah (SWT) directly. I only need to make salawat to the Prophet (PBUH)as the best man ever, the messenger of Allah (PBUH). Yes, while the Prophet (PBUH) was alive, people did ask him (PBUH) to pray to Allah on their behalf. After his death, that door was firmly shut.

you do not only make salawat.you send salam.

salawat is when you ask Allah (swt) to bless Muhammad (sa) and the Family of Muhammad (sa).

sending salam is when you greet the Prophet (sa) in your prayer during the recitation of the shahadatain.

do not try to play smart here.

you issue out these words: As Salamu Alaika Ya Ayyiuhan Nabiy Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh-Peace be upon you O Prophet and the mercy and blessings of Allah.

who are you talking to?