Please I would advice you watch these short videos on muslim-christian marriages:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-google&v=zMuTyDED81c

http://m.youtube.com/
watch?gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-google&v=4fvdk_0GN_Y

@Abdulsleek:

by AbdulSleek(m): 7:11pm On Sep 29
@ Sweetnecta


You are not logically defending your position concerning non-muslim marriage.

Is there a need for my own "logic" when Allah has stated His Position about women and marriage.
Muslim woman must marry only muslim man.
people of the books women can marry muslim man.
other women can not marry muslim man until becoming from one of the two groups, above.

As I have told LagosShia, you can not tell someone that you can marry his women but he can not marry your women.

But Allah can tell you who you can not marry and who you can. Are you going to obey Allah or not in this matter you are so passionate about?

You only end up looking like a cheating bigot.

don't be naive. there are beautiful women who are muslims and single, still. I will marry only muslim women and thats my position and I am neither a bigot nor a cheat if i find a non muslim woman and tell her to become muslim if she wants to be my wife. I dont know about you, we have nigrian, african, indeed muslim women in England who are beautiful and single still. WHats your style or are you not ready but debating the issue you are not prepared for?

Can you explain why there are non-muslim men who have long lasting marriages with devout muslim women and live a happy life?

Just because a man is wealthy in haraam business does not make it right. I will not participate in giving my women folks away to disbelievers. And I am as liberal as they come. But I have my stand; as long as it is within Islam. non muslim husband of muslim wife is against sharia and we have seen people who refuse to marry, yet they have happy homes 40 years and counting with grown up children, now left with empty nest. does it make it right to be unmarried even though you are happy "couple"? Please firm up your priority within what Allah Prescribes.

My landlord is an example.

so what? Its shameful that a woman keeps a baby in the womb, she is a believer and the baby is not because the man who mounts her is not a believer. why would she allow a disbeliever to mount her? I will not mount a disbelieving woman. If I end up in Paradise, I do not want my spouse in hell is my weakest argument about my position.

My niece can marry who she wants. It is her right. I am not the honour killing type.

while honor killing is not part of Islam, the right of Allah you at least tell that to your niece. or is she allowed to marry a hindu too even as she wears hijab and kimar? Do you at least have a limit and have shame about something or you just do what you want, even in front of everybody? the right of your niece must be under the Right of Allah, or is it above the Rights of Allah? How do you say you are a muslim, yet disregard the Commandment of Allah on marriage?

I only advice her to marry a man that can care for her financially, is respnsible and loves her.

I though she is in college so that she can carry her own water? Why not tell her to marry a believer who can love her as a mate, considering her as equal in the marriage, able to be financially be responsible for her and show kindness? The benefit of marrying a muslim for a woman is that her right of worship will be respected instead of frustrating her so much so that she begins to "doubt" and may actually lead to converting out. Why allow satan a place to sit in your life and you have to struggle to get rid of him? If this is all I list, it is a way towards ending in paradise, instead of hell.

Sweetnecta: @Abdulsleek: Is there a need for my own "logic" when Allah has stated His Position about women and marriage.
Muslim woman must marry only muslim man.
people of the books women can marry muslim man.
other women can not marry muslim man until becoming from one of the two groups, above.


But Allah can tell you who you can not marry and who you can. Are you going to obey Allah or not in this matter you are so passionate about?


don't be naive. there are beautiful women who are muslims and single, still. I will marry only muslim women and thats my position and I am neither a bigot nor a cheat if i find a non muslim woman and tell her to become muslim if she wants to be my wife. I dont know about you, we have nigrian, african, indeed muslim women in England who are beautiful and single still. WHats your style or are you not ready but debating the issue you are not prepared for?


Just because a man is wealthy in haraam business does not make it right. I will not participate in giving my women folks away to disbelievers. And I am as liberal as they come. But I have my stand; as long as it is within Islam. non muslim husband of muslim wife is against sharia and we have seen people who refuse to marry, yet they have happy homes 40 years and counting with grown up children, now left with empty nest. does it make it right to be unmarried even though you are happy "couple"? Please firm up your priority within what Allah Prescribes.


so what? Its shameful that a woman keeps a baby in the womb, she is a believer and the baby is not because the man who mounts her is not a believer. why would she allow a disbeliever to mount her? I will not mount a disbelieving woman. If I end up in Paradise, I do not want my spouse in hell is my weakest argument about my position.


while honor killing is not part of Islam, the right of Allah you at least tell that to your niece. or is she allowed to marry a hindu too even as she wears hijab and kimar? Do you at least have a limit and have shame about something or you just do what you want, even in front of everybody? the right of your niece must be under the Right of Allah, or is it above the Rights of Allah? How do you say you are a muslim, yet disregard the Commandment of Allah on marriage?


I though she is in college so that she can carry her own water? Why not tell her to marry a believer who can love her as a mate, considering her as equal in the marriage, able to be financially be responsible for her and show kindness? The benefit of marrying a muslim for a woman is that her right of worship will be respected instead of frustrating her so much so that she begins to "doubt" and may actually lead to converting out. Why allow satan a place to sit in your life and you have to struggle to get rid of him? If this is all I list, it is a way towards ending in paradise, instead of hell.

Well, I have to disagree with Allah then. What if I told you that my mom is dating a white man who is a non-muslim? Should I caution my mom? Someone who raised me on her own. My mom is 43 and she has her own house and has raised her child (me). Who am I or anyone to tell her who she can marry? My father, a muslim man with 3 wives was maltreating my mother. The white man my mom is dating and soon to be engaged with has been nothing but an angel to my mom and I.



So when I talk about non-muslim marriage dont think that I woke up one day to insult Allah.

Ha! I finally learnt how to quote properly!

Sweetnecta: @Abdulsleek: Is there a need for my own "logic" when Allah has stated His Position about women and marriage.
Muslim woman must marry only muslim man.
people of the books women can marry muslim man.
other women can not marry muslim man until becoming from one of the two groups, above.

I put the part in bold so that yo can see why some people see we muslims as brainwashed. Allah gave us brains to think. We need logic, Allah shoundt be illogical.

Tha being said, I can not agree with things that do not make sense.

Sweetnecta:

I though she is in college so that she can carry her own water? Why not tell her to marry a believer who can love her as a mate, considering her as equal in the marriage, able to be financially be responsible for her and show kindness? The benefit of marrying a muslim for a woman is that her right of worship will be respected instead of frustrating her so much so that she begins to "doubt" and may actually lead to converting out. Why allow satan a place to sit in your life and you have to struggle to get rid of him? If this is all I list, it is a way towards ending in paradise, instead of hell.

So all non-muslims are going to hell. You should see the laughter this generated in my office debate. How tolerant is such a view to non-muslims? Personally, I think that people should go to heaven and hell by merit and not by belief. If a hindu does good and lives a good life, he should go to heaven. Paying zakat and marying a muslim woman should not guarantee one a road to heaven.

@ LagosShia,


All your links and responses add up to the same thing;

-Men are the head of the house and daddies of women and religion. Not so. A woman can be married to a non-muslim and keep her faith. I have seen it in the case of my landlord.

-The children. Oh no, the children must be muslim! That is up to the parents and non of your business. We do not live in the village where privacy is non-existent and the community is very closely knit. The mother might decide that the children should be raised as muslim, the mother may not. The couple can choose and decide what they can negotiate with each other. Love and humanity come before religion. If religion is inhumane then it is useless.

-Hell! shaytan! The husband is going to hell!. When the argument fails, threaten with hellfire. Sorry, but i believe that going to heaven or paradise is based oon merit and not by marrying a muslim or reading the Quran alone. Every good person is in paradise and not only people who can read the Quran. Bin Laden read the Quran as well

AbdulSleek:


I understand what your link is trying to say.

I guess at the end, my involvement with the capitalist lifestyle has gotten a hold of me. after working in my company for years, I am well trained to see the rational sides of things and take the most logical route. I was in the marketing department before. We used numbers and figures to decide where we spend our marketing funds. We always took the logical route. We took the routes with less risks if they guaranteed enough returns. We convinced managers to choose our products with logical arguments. "the figures say that by using our financial services, you will save 20% of costs and be at least 33% more efficient- no ther company can guarantee you such a promise".


Now, someone asks me to trust in faith. I have been a faithful man all my life. There comes a time as a muslim where you are left with a rational choice and a choice to put your issue on faith..........


I dont know if you can see my problem

There's no problem to be had unless you want to create one for yourself and get confused. Those who are far more "logical and rational" than you were in charge of the global economy and they managed to put it in a fine mess. So, human "intelligence" does have its limits, even the most brilliant scientists know that some things cannot be explained rationally, that's why we have terms like "paranormal" and "supernatural".

I am a Management person myself and love empirical data and research. However, there are limits to their validity and reliability. That's when subjective research instruments are relied upon.

At this rate, you would very soon question the existence of your Creator.

AbdulSleek:


Your first sentence betrays you. I can take a guess that you havent read the Quran or you are not a muslim?

wow, so much disdain.


what exactly do you disagree with in my post?

maclatunji:

There's no problem to be had unless you want to create one for yourself and get confused. Those who are far more "logical and rational" than you were in charge of the global economy and they managed to put it in a fine mess. So, human "intelligence" does have its limits, even the most brilliant scientists know that some things cannot be explained rationally, that's why we have terms like "paranormal" and "supernatural".

I am a Management person myself and love empirical data and research. However, there are limits to their validity and reliability. That's when subjective research instruments are relied upon.

At this rate, you would very soon question the existence of your Creator.

You have to understand that modern economies follow a cycle of boom, recession and stagnation. Many people know this. Just because there was a recession, it doesnt mean that people didnt make millions from the financial crisis. There were people who bet against the market and made huge returns.
"For a few to be immortal, many must die"


When we reach limits to our knowledge, what do we do? Find more knowledge or Seek miracles?


There is no logical justification for saying that non-muslims shouldnt marry muslim women when we muslim men can marry non-muslims. None. The christian can also say that we shouldnt marry their women but they can marry our women. Imagine that happens in places where muslims are a minority.


Concerning questioning the existence of our creator, it would be a sad thing if you admit that you havent questioned his existence. A thinking man must question and think.

@Abdulsleek:

by AbdulSleek(m): 2:50pm
Ha! I finally learnt how to quote properly! grin

You have been "brainwashed" to that. No? I can read your post without the "quote" youjust learned.

Sweetnecta: @Abdulsleek: Is there a need for my own "logic" when Allah has stated His Position about women and marriage.
Muslim woman must marry only muslim man.
people of the books women can marry muslim man.
other women can not marry muslim man until becoming from one of the two groups, above.


I put the part in bold so that yo can see why some people see we muslims as brainwashed. Allah gave us brains to think. We need logic, Allah shoundt be illogical.

Allah also gave us freewill in addition to what you listed There is no higher or equal source of logic and Allah is The Logical being the Owner of Logic and User of the Highest form of Logic. He formed you, then sent prophets [as] with Guidance from Him, from time to time and the last of them was Muhammad [sa] the man you say you follow in his pattern of worshiping Allah. Did Allah give you brain to think illogically so that you abandon logic and end up disagreeing with Allah? Yet expect Him to reward you with absolute goodness from Him?

Let me tell you what i have been brainwashed to do: showing, brushing my teeth, etc. Then I realize that they are good for me: my skin is clean and no dirt or stain on it and skin diseases have no place to germinate. My teeth is clean and still firm in my mouth. Heck. I have been brainwashed into practicing hygiene and I discover that it is a good thing for me.

Tha being said, I can not agree with things that do not make sense.

please don't use your "sense" to judge Allah like the atheists who retort that since Allah is Unseen He must not be existing. The limited scope of human senses do not allow man to see or know each of the things that "make sense".

Sweetnecta:

I though she is in college so that she can carry her own water? Why not tell her to marry a believer who can love her as a mate, considering her as equal in the marriage, able to be financially be responsible for her and show kindness? The benefit of marrying a muslim for a woman is that her right of worship will be respected instead of frustrating her so much so that she begins to "doubt" and may actually lead to converting out. Why allow satan a place to sit in your life and you have to struggle to get rid of him? If this is all I list, it is a way towards ending in paradise, instead of hell.


So all non-muslims are going to hell.[/b]You should see the laughter this generated in my office debate. [b]How tolerant is such a view to non-muslims? Personally, I think that people should go to heaven and hell by merit and not by belief. If a hindu does good and lives a good life, he should go to heaven. Paying zakat and marying a muslim woman should not guarantee one a road to heaven.

show me where Allah says Shaitan [the greatest disbeliever] will go to Paradise? Or show me where Pharaoh is said to be heading for "Heaven". Every belief thinks the others are misguided or in disbelief. Christians say muslims will not be in Christian Heaven. I hope you know that? I will not be in Jewish Heaven, or Hindu Heaven and I will hope in Allah that I a not in Islamic Hell. Please throw away your personal opinion if it is different from the Commandment of Allah and the way of the Prophet [sa]. And I do hope you know that each prophet [as] was a muslim? The road to heaven {Paradise from Islamic view] starts with "Belief", first which is the ingredient you think is not necessary. May Allah strengthen your faith and that of each of us in His Guidance {Belief in Islam]. Amin.

AbdulSleek:

You have to understand that modern economies follow a cycle of boom, recession and stagnation. Many people know this. Just because there was a recession, it doesnt mean that people didnt make millions from the financial crisis. There were people who bet against the market and made huge returns.
"For a few to be immortal, many must die"


When we reach limits to our knowledge, what do we do? Find more knowledge or Seek miracles?


There is no logical justification for saying that non-muslims shouldnt marry muslim women when we muslim men can marry non-muslims. None. The christian can also say that we shouldnt marry their women but they can marry our women. Imagine that happens in places where muslims are a minority.


Concerning questioning the existence of our creator, it would be a sad thing if you admit that you havent questioned his existence. A thinking man must question and think.

LOL. I would love you as a manager to run a product into decline within the product life cycle and see if you won't be kicked-out like a rabid animal. If recession and depression are as natural as you want to make them, the world wouldn't be making so much noise about them. I would love for you to go and have this cute talk on the streets of Athens.

As for Questioning God's existence, what did you find after your research?

maclatunji:

LOL. I would love you as a manager to run a product into decline within the product life cycle and see if you won't be kicked-out like a rabid animal. If recession and depression are as natural as you want to make them, the world wouldn't be making so much noise about them. I would love for you to go and have this cute talk on the streets of Athens.

As for Questioning God's existence, what did you find after your research?

Wow. Management and Economics are two separate branches of business for a reason. I was talking about economies and not firms. All economies will go through a period of recession. It is a never ending cycle. The organic cause of a recession in a capitalist system comes from interest, credits and trading of shares. When yo trade om a commodity that has no value or shift an asset that is toxic over a period of time, there will become a time when such asset or commodity will not be taken at its stated value but it's real value (Zero). With so much toxic assets and worthless commodities in the economy, the stock market crashes.


I cant believe I was even asking you for advice on riba. You dont even know economics. This is what islam has become. The blind leading the blind. Allah help us.



Concerning product life cycle, every sucessful product will reach a stage of maturity (its peak) and a decline. It is at the beginning of a decline that a company has to either rebrand, target a new market or find an exit strategy.



Please, I work in finance for a living in one of the biggest companies in london. Don't let me embarass you.


Furst time I questioned Allah's existence, I was young and so I asked my mom who reassured me that he was real and that he guided us through all the hardships we had faced. I accepted it.

Now as a man, Iam still researching and finding my way. For now, I still believe that there is something holding us humans together.

^Guy, I actually don't care if you're the World Bank President. However, my point is the boom-burst cycle you're describing is analogous to product life cycle. Yeah! Your examples come from Macroeconomics, mine comes from Microeconomics. That's not even important, my point is that the fact that we can describe these cyclical patterns does not mean we're happy with them. What we human beings want is a boom-boom cycle. The fact that you're here trying to justify and glorify the boom-burst cycle is testament to the limitation of human intellect, the quicker you accept this the better for you.

maclatunji: ^Guy, I actually don't care if you're the World Bank President. However, my point is the boom-burst cycle you're describing is analogous to product life cycle. Yeah! Your examples come from Macroeconomics, mine comes from Microeconomics. That's not even important, my point is that the fact that we can describe these cyclical patterns does not mean we're happy with them. What we human beings want is a boom-boom cycle. The fact that you're here trying to justify and glorify the boom-burst cycle is testament to the limitation of human intellect, the quicker you accept this the better for you.

You have no point bros.

Product life cycle is what you learn in marketing not economics.


These "cyclic patterns" are not a testament of the limitation of human intellect,they are an inevitable situations. Faith is the limitation. When human knowledge fails, turn to miracles instead of improving the knowledge.

You dont seem very versed in economics. Please dont advice anyone on Riba again.

AbdulSleek:


You have no point bros.

Product life cycle is what you learn in marketing not economics.


These "cyclic patterns" are not a testament of the limitation of human intellect,they are an inevitable situations. Faith is the limitation. When human knowledge fails, turn to miracles instead of improving the knowledge.

You dont seem very versed in economics. Please dont advice anyone on Riba again.

You have a very narrow mindset indeed. Sorry if I have offended your sensibilities but by my training, I am a Marketer, Accountant, Economists, Management theorist and more all rolled-up into one package. You do learn about Product Life Cycle in Economics because it's a key part of decision-making at Microeconomics level. I agree it's a concept owned by Marketing but there are many concepts like that that pervade Management and Social Sciences.

There's nothing "inevitable" about the boom-burst cycle you're defending. Indeed, by following the teachings of Islam in Economics. A near-perfect system can be obtained. I say near-perfect because human beings will always make mistakes in any activity they engage in.

AbdulSleek: @ LagosShia,


All your links and responses add up to the same thing;

-Men are the head of the house and daddies of women and religion. Not so. A woman can be married to a non-muslim and keep her faith. I have seen it in the case of my landlord.

-The children. Oh no, the children must be muslim! That is up to the parents and non of your business. We do not live in the village where privacy is non-existent and the community is very closely knit. The mother might decide that the children should be raised as muslim, the mother may not. The couple can choose and decide what they can negotiate with each other. Love and humanity come before religion. If religion is inhumane then it is useless.

-Hell! shaytan! The husband is going to hell!. When the argument fails, threaten with hellfire. Sorry, but i believe that going to heaven or paradise is based oon merit and not by marrying a muslim or reading the Quran alone. Every good person is in paradise and not only people who can read the Quran. Bin Laden read the Quran as well

I think you're becoming very silly.and that really shows you're deficient in both islamic knowledge and faith.I never spoke about hell.going to paradise or hell will be an issue to be decided by none other than God.that is what Islam taught me.even when I believe islam is the absolute and only truth and reality,I still do not as a human threaten others with hell.your words should be directed at bible thumpers and fanatical christians who market their beliefs with either the cross or hell fire.muslims don't sentence those who reject islam to hell.

I am afraid you're seriously misguided.I will not give my daughter to a non-muslim knowing that my grandchild would be known as "Paul" or "Krishna".may Allah (swt) spare my offspring of that curse! I reject that in the name of Allah the most compassionate the most merciful!!!

You're sacrificing or promoting to sacrifice the produce of our muslim daughters.that silly idea of humanity you're talking about is leading humanity astray.this issue as a muslim have to do with building an islamic society in this world and sound children before thinking about paradise.your landlord is a case on his own and each case is individual.the guideline of muslim women not marrying non-muslim is aimed at giving a unified policy to avoid the different possible negative outcomes that could result from such marriage.your idea of humane is lacking.islam came for the betterment of the human being.your idea of humane is compromising the spiritual well-fare of the female muslim and her children and the islamic society at large to please non-muslims.to hell with what your non-muslim co-workers think.if you like join them in hell too! I don't care.my daughter will marry a non-muslim over my dead body.I'd rather commit suicide and rot in hell myself than witness that day.and please no one should preach tolerance to me because islam is tolerance;and islam have made it easy for everyone by telling us in surat al-kafiroon that:"to you your religion and to me my own religion".

Mr.AbdulSleek,even though you claim to be Sunni,if you can financially afford it,I'd advice you to make an urgent visit to the holy city of Qom in Iran.please do even though mostly it is Shia that go there.my advice is for you to see what a bastion of islam and a centre of islamic learning and spirituality looks like.Qom is where Lauren Booth (sister-in-law of Tony Blair) was inspired to embrace Islam.go there to seek knowledge and then come back to give us your testimony.till then hold your peace!

maclatunji:

You have a very narrow mindset indeed. Sorry if I have offended your sensibilities but by my training, I am a Marketer, Accountant, Economists, Management theorist and more all rolled-up into one package. You do learn about Product Life Cycle in Economics because it's a key part of decision-making at Microeconomics level. I agree it's a concept owned by Marketing but there are many concepts like that that pervade Management and Social Sciences.

There's nothing "inevitable" about the boom-burst cycle you're defending. Indeed, by following the teachings of Islam in Economics. A near-perfect system can be obtained. I say near-perfect because human beings will always make mistakes in any activity they engage in.

My muslim bros, you are the one sounding hurt. I actually like you because you seem like a straightforward guy. However, you are naive. Seriously, what you are claiming to be is quite impossible except you have 3 separate degrees and possibly, a professional qualification in accounting. You dont have to lie just to be on par with my intelligence/qualifications. .
You would fail at an interview by claiming such because you'd only sound like a fraudster (who the heck can claim to be an economist, accountant, management theorist and a marketer?). Mind you, I have a general knowledge of each category of business but I dont claim to be what I am not.

Concerning a near perfect system with islam, let us be practical. You failed to show me a muslim majority country that doesnt engage in riba.

Tell me, can you grow an economy from reading the Quran and hadith? The very idea and fundamentals of economics, marketing and management that we are discussing. came from the minds of western thinkers (and Japanese, especially for management/operations management).



For you to even believe that you can avoid a boom and bust cycle in an economy with islam, you must be quite a fanatical muslim. It is impossible to avoid a recession or slowdown in economic activities. Economic growth is quite paradoxical, an economy grows to a certain point only to fall on itself due to being unable to meet the demands of such growth

LagosShia:

I think you're becoming very silly.and that really shows you're deficient in both islamic knowledge and faith.I never spoke about hell.going to paradise or hell will be an issue to be decided by none other than God.that is what Islam taught me.even when I believe islam is the absolute and only truth and reality,I still do not as a human threaten others with hell.your words should be directed at bible thumpers and fanatical christians who market their beliefs with either the cross or hell fire.muslims don't sentence those who reject islam to hell.

I am afraid you're seriously misguided.I will not give my daughter to a non-muslim knowing that my grandchild would be known as "Paul" or "Krishna".may Allah (swt) spare my offspring of that curse! I reject that in the name of Allah the most compassionate the most merciful!!!

You're sacrificing or promoting to sacrifice the produce of our muslim daughters.that silly idea of humanity you're talking about is leading humanity astray.this issue as a muslim have to do with building an islamic society in this world and sound children before thinking about paradise.your landlord is a case on his own and each case is individual.the guideline of muslim women not marrying non-muslim is aimed at giving a unified policy to avoid the different possible negative outcomes that could result from such marriage.your idea of humane is lacking.islam came for the betterment of the human being.your idea of humane is compromising the spiritual well-fare of the female muslim and her children and the islamic society at large to please non-muslims.to hell with what your non-muslim co-workers think.if you like join them in hell too! I don't care.my daughter will marry a non-muslim over my dead body.I'd rather commit suicide and rot in hell myself than witness that day.and please no one should preach tolerance to me because islam is tolerance;and islam have made it easy for everyone by telling us in surat al-kafiroon that:"to you your religion and to me my own religion".

Mr.AbdulSleek,even though you claim to be Sunni,if you can financially afford it,I'd advice you to make an urgent visit to the holy city of Qom in Iran.please do even though mostly it is Shia that go there.my advice is for you to see what a bastion of islam and a centre of islamic learning and spirituality looks like.Qom is where Lauren Booth (sister-in-law of Tony Blair) was inspired to embrace Islam.go there to seek knowledge and then come back to give us your testimony.till then hold your peace!

Sorry about the mention of hell. Someone on this thread or the other thread gave me a link that included going to hell as a reason and I mixed it up with your link.


The argument still remains the same. I am a human before a muslim. I am a human with or without islam. I can not force my religion on someone else. If my niece feels like marrying a non-muslim, I am not her father and there is nothing that I can do other to advice her to at least make sure the man can financially and emotionally take care of her.


The problem with you LagosShia, is that you put religion before humanity. Your comment shows that you think that non-muslims are not human. If non-muslims treated us in the same way, what do you think would have happened to muslim minorities in the West? Imagine someone taking your women and yet you cant take their women. Cheating much?


If your daughter comes home with a non-muslim, what are you going to do? Disown her? You need to live in reality. There are some of my co-workers who said that they would only become muslim until after the marriage. That is the outcome that you are gunning for. It is not hard for someone who is desperately in love to do such a thing to win the heart of an intolerant father in-law (like yourself).



And lastly, Iran is one of the most foolish examples of a muslim country. They are an embarrassment to the muslim world, just like Saudi Arabia and their totalitarian version of Islam.

AbdulSleek:


My muslim bros, you are the one sounding hurt. I actually like you because you seem like a straightforward guy. However, you are naive. Seriously, what you are claiming to be is quite impossible except you have 3 separate degrees and possibly, a professional qualification in accounting. You dont have to lie just to be on par with my intelligence/qualifications. .
You would fail at an interview by claiming such because you'd only sound like a fraudster (who the heck can claim to be an economist, accountant, management theorist and a marketer?). Mind you, I have a general knowledge of each category of business but I dont claim to be what I am not.

Concerning a near perfect system with islam, let us be practical. You failed to show me a muslim majority country that doesnt engage in riba.

Tell me, can you grow an economy from reading the Quran and hadith? The very idea and fundamentals of economics, marketing and management that we are discussing. came from the minds of western thinkers (and Japanese, especially for management/operations management).



For you to even believe that you can avoid a boom and bust cycle in an economy with islam, you must be quite a fanatical muslim. It is impossible to avoid a recession or slowdown in economic activities. Economic growth is quite paradoxical, an economy grows to a certain point only to fall on itself due to being unable to meet the demands of such growth

Sorry, you're not half as intelligent as you think you are. Quite frankly, you seem not to be able to see beyond your nose.

If you couldn't figure out my last post. I shouldn't continue with you.

By the way, your belief or disbelief in Islam is your cup of tea, you're not doing anybody a favour. I am speaking based on your posturing on the 2 threads you created.

Ma Salam.

AbdulSleek:


Sorry about the mention of hell. Someone on this thread or the other thread gave me a link that included going to hell as a reason and I mixed it up with your link.

That goes to show one thing: you've being arguing blindly.perhaps you think people in other part of the world are foolish and life begin and end in your place of work.

The argument still remains the same. I am a human before a muslim. I am a human with or without islam. I can not force my religion on someone else. If my niece feels like marrying a non-muslim, I am not her father and there is nothing that I can do other to advice her to at least make sure the man can financially and emotionally take care of her.

I really don't know how you reach your conclusions.how many times have you said "sorry" in your two threads? Who's asking you to force your religion on anyone? First for a muslim girl to even think of bringing a non-muslim guy home (without letting him know of her religious concern) reflect the un-islamic way of life she has lived and the home she's coming from.

If you think your niece isn't your daughter,then let her father guide her or her mother or a responsible brother who is a practicing muslim.

The problem with you LagosShia, is that you put religion before humanity. Your comment shows that you think that non-muslims are not human. If non-muslims treated us in the same way, what do you think would have happened to muslim minorities in the West? Imagine someone taking your women and yet you cant take their women. Cheating much?

You're free to think as you please.you should do us all a favor and teach the americans and british using drones daily in afghanistan,somalia,yemen and pakistan to kill innocent people.I also have a right to humanity and to protect my life as I deem fit.if a non-muslim female in europe doesn't want to marry me because I'm muslim and not christian or atheist,that's her choice and must be respected.you're brainwashed or getting brainwashed to the extent that humanity and right only have to do when it concerns non-muslims against your fellow muslims.you should promote also the fact that if a muslim lady doesn't want to marry a non-muslim,it is her right to decide.if your niece wants to marry a stone worshipper I'm not bothered.it least bothers me.its your family and you're free to act as you please.

If your daughter comes home with a non-muslim, what are you going to do? Disown her? You need to live in reality. There are some of my co-workers who said that they would only become muslim until after the marriage. That is the outcome that you are gunning for. It is not hard for someone who is desperately in love to do such a thing to win the heart of an intolerant father in-law (like yourself).

I don't need anyone to become muslim because of woman.if you become a muslim because of anything,you will leave islam because of anything.but if you become muslim because of Allah,the mountains will fall and your heart wouldn't be shaken.a non-muslim is welcome for my daughter but not before I make sure his bones and blood are transformed into muslims over a period of time!his character matters too in this.but if he's going to marry my daughter to give me grandchild who is "paul" and "krishna" I'd rather do the "honor killing" on myself and rot in hell so my daughter's foolish desire is pleased.

And lastly, Iran is one of the most foolish examples of a muslim country. They are an embarrassment to the muslim world, just like Saudi Arabia and their totalitarian version of Islam.

I'm not bothered by what you think politically.and definition of foolishness varies.you've being quite foolish yourself in your unguarded utterances.so I'm not bothered about what you think about the political establishment in iran.

However I was not talking politics when I mentioned Qom.I was talking religion.

I believe the OP don't understand the meaning of Islam (not literal meaning), if not you'll not be asking some of this illogical questions. Using science to analyse islam is not 100% okay. Note that Islam is a religion of Signs and not Science.

olawalebabs: I believe the OP don't understand the meaning of Islam (not literal meaning), if not you'll not be asking some of this illogical questions. Using science to analyse islam is not 100% okay. Note that Islam is a religion of Signs and not Science.

I didnt even mention the big bang and evolution arguments that my co-workers were using. I only stated their arguments which had some common sense in them.


Imagine if I had actually used science?


I am really embarrassed by some comments by my muslim bros here.

maclatunji:


Sorry, you're not half as intelligent as you think you are. Quite frankly, you seem not to be able to see beyond your nose.

If you couldn't figure out my last post. I shouldn't continue with you.

By the way, your belief or disbelief in Islam is your cup of tea, you're not doing anybody a favour. I am speaking based on your posturing on the 2 threads you created.

Ma Salam.

Was your last post written in code or parables? Can you build a near perfect system with islam as you claimed?

maclatunji:

There's nothing "inevitable" about the boom-burst cycle you're defending. Indeed, by following the teachings of Islam in Economics. A near-perfect system can be obtained. I say near-perfect because human beings will always make mistakes in any activity they engage in.

AbdulSleek:


I didnt even mention the big bang and evolution arguments that my co-workers were using. I only stated their arguments which had some common sense in them.


Imagine if I had actually used science?


I am really embarrassed by some comments by my muslim bros here.

so you are embarras by the word of Allah? Seriously, what you need is deep knowledge of the religion. Seek for real knowledge and apply logic to it. Islam is the most logically religion you can find around.

LagosShia:
That goes to show one thing: you've being arguing blindly.perhaps you think people in other part of the world are foolish and life begin and end in your place of work.

All it shows is that I am ready to say sorry and admit that I am wrong. Unlike you. Sheik Rushdie Killer

Sit down and think. You and others who couldnt state their points had to run to numerous websites to answer my questions. I had to read so many links. Forgive me I read ALL of them and summarized their points.

You see, if you could argue your points rather than run to websites that have long essays and essays to explain a simple issue, I wouldnt have summarised all the points together.


I am very justified in my actions but I still said sorry. After all, the "hell argument" was still a central point used in the topic of non-muslimj marriage. Let me give you numerous links with essays and lets see how you fare.

LagosShia:
I really don't know how you reach your conclusions.how many times have you said "sorry" in your two threads? Who's asking you to force your religion on anyone? First for a muslim girl to even think of bringing a non-muslim guy home (without letting him know of her religious concern) reflect the un-islamic way of life she has lived and the home she's coming from.

If you think your niece isn't your daughter,then let her father guide her or her mother or a responsible brother who is a practicing muslim.

"Sorry" is never used by a proud man who doesn't admit his mistakes. . It is not a sign of weakness but intelligence and respect.


I will hand over my neice to you since her father is dead. You have to pay her school fees and accomodation which cost some thousands of pounds.

You are quite arrogant to even imply that I m not responsible. If by responsible, you mean that I should stop paying my neices school fees , feeding her and advising her then giving her to a muslim bros just because he is muslim, THEN I AM PROUD TO BE IRRESPONSIBLE.

I am not going to control an adult woman's life. She can marry who she wants to marry and Ican only advice. You want to build a caliphate by not minding your business and forcing all muslim women to marry non-muslims. There is no compulsion in islam, remember?

LagosShia:
You're free to think as you please.you should do us all a favor and teach the americans and british using drones daily in afghanistan,somalia,yemen and pakistan to kill innocent people.I also have a right to humanity and to protect my life as I deem fit.if a non-muslim female in europe doesn't want to marry me because I'm muslim and not christian or atheist,that's her choice and must be respected.you're brainwashed or getting brainwashed to the extent that humanity and right only have to do when it concerns non-muslims against your fellow muslims.you should promote also the fact that if a muslim lady doesn't want to marry a non-muslim,it is her right to decide.if your niece wants to marry a [b]stone worshipper [/b]I'm not bothered.it least bothers me.its your family and you're free to act as you please.

Oh, I was waiting for the "oh, the west is butthurting our muslim brothers in Afghanistan and Pakistan" defense. I do not support the Iraqi war or killing innocent muslims by the west and so, your point is a strawman.


Humanity and human rights. A woman can marry who she wants to marry. My prinicple goes both ways unlike yours. A non-muslim woman can marry who she wants to marry just a muslim woman should be able to marry who she wants to marry.

It is funny that you should mention "stone worshipper". Do you know what the christians call us when we say that they engage in shirk with their Jesus statues? Stoe Worshippers of the Kaaba! Ironic isnt it?

LagosShia:
I don't need anyone to become muslim because of woman.if you become a muslim because of anything,you will leave islam because of anything.but if you become muslim because of Allah,the mountains will fall and your heart wouldn't be shaken.a non-muslim is welcome for my daughter but not before I make sure his bones and blood are transformed into muslims over a period of time!his character matters too in this.but if he's going to marry my daughter to give me grandchild who is "paul" and "krishna" I'd rather do the "honor killing" on myself and rot in hell so my daughter's foolish desire is pleased.

Wow, you talk big but you have already failed. You dont even know if I am still a muslim or not and you think you can find out someone who is pretending to be a real muslim? LMAO. (By the way, I am still a muslim-just with doubts)

So, you would commit suicide and go to hell if your grandson's name is "Paul". Wasnt Paul a prophet in the bible? What does committing suicide solve? Are you okay?

LagosShia:
I'm not bothered by what you think politically.and definition of foolishness varies.you've being quite foolish yourself in your unguarded utterances.so I'm not bothered about what you think about the political establishment in iran.

However I was not talking politics when I mentioned Qom.I was talking religion.

Qom has nothing to do with Muhammed (PBUH).You are quite ignorant. All Qom is is a conquered land by Umar.


Better start reading on islam and history.

olawalebabs: so you are embarras by the word of Allah? Seriously, what you need is deep knowledge of the religion. Seek for real knowledge and apply logic to it. Islam is the most logically religion you can find around.

I am embarrassed by your comments not Allah.

Islam is the most logical religion? Many of my muslim co-workers say the same thing and yet they have no idea what hindu or Bhuddism are.

I am nor disagreeing with your comments. I hate comments that are not backed up.

^Yawns.

maclatunji: ^Yawns.

*Sighs*

Lol! this would probably go down as one of the most hilarious thread of the year 2012, it seems to frustrate respondents and op alike.

Abdul sleek or should it be sleeky abdul cause Abdul sleek reads servant of sleek, and sleeky abdul would read sleeky servant and u know ur username does really sound sleek.

Anycase, Abdul"sleek" I understand you support homosexuality, No?

AbdulSleek:


I am embarrassed by your comments not Allah.

Islam is the most logical religion? Many of my muslim co-workers say the same thing and yet they have no idea what hindu or Bhuddism are.

I am nor disagreeing with your comments. I hate comments that are not backed up.

the comments i made are the word of Allah. Moreover, i see you as being confuse, you confess to being a muslim and you don't really know what it entails.

vedaxcool: Lol! this would probably go down as one of the most hilarious thread of the year 2012, it seems to frustrate respondents and op alike.

Abdul sleek or should it be sleeky abdul cause Abdul sleek reads servant of sleek, and sleeky abdul would read sleeky servant and u know ur username does really sound sleek.

Anycase, Abdul"sleek" I understand you support homosexuality, No?

My name is Saleek but the British call me sleeky Sleek.



Support homosexuality? No! I dont support homosexuality but we shouldnt kill them with the death penalty. Maybe we should explain the Quran to them....I dunno

olawalebabs: the comments i made are the word of Allah. Moreover, i see you as being confuse, you confess to being a muslim and you don't really know what it entails.

You are not Allah and neither are your words.

I am a muslim and the Quran tells us to reason. I reason

AbdulSleek:

My name is Saleek but the British call me sleeky Sleek.



Support homosexuality? No! I dont support homosexuality but we shouldnt kill them with the death penalty. Maybe we should explain the Quran to them....I dunno

Oh, I s"l"ee"k", sleeky sleek.

Actually I ask the question because, from your post you indicated that who are you to try to tell your sister how to live her live, and my assumption is same goes for the homosexual, I mean using the premise of "who are you", who are we to explain what the Qur'an says or to abhor what fully grown men decides to choose to do? You don't support death penalty for homosexuality, good, but why should be concerned with what they do since who are you to tell a grown woman who to date, so who are you to tell a grown man what to date? My point is let's assume you had a brother (a big God forbid to what I am about say) engages in homosexuality, using the who are you clause, I understand you would perfectly ignore your brother vile activities and just let him do as he will. Now if your answer is no, wouldn't you be contradicting yourself , and if your answer is yes wouldn't you be contradicting the Qur'an principles which clearly forbids homosexuality? The same Qur'an you gorded lagoshia to provide as evidence for sentencing your buddy rushdie. Which leads us to the all important question, really are you just planning to live your life on sleek principles? and more precisely what principles do you live by?