Katsumoto: Clearly, Achebe is not a deep thinker. He is a literary giant no doubt, but no more.

If he understands the evolution of society and the stages each group must pass through to evolve as a society, he would not tout, rather ignorantly, that individualism and competitiveness is an advantage. Individualism and competitiveness is merely an advantage for the individual but not society as a whole. Societies may or may not have social classes but they need hierarchies for them to function well. There is no great society without hierarchy. People who do well in such societies must find a way to compensate those who are not doing so well. The Romans gave the people gladiatorial arenas; the Europeans and Americans have social safety nets which the Asians are also replicating.

What Achebe sees as advancement in the form of Igbos settling in other places, others call it migration to seek opportunities in more evolved societies. Competitiveness and individualism meant that Alaigbo was not as evolved as other Nigerian societies. This competitiveness and individualism is still the reason why there is net migration from Alaigbo to other parts of Nigeria. For instance, there are Americans and Brits in Nigeria but there are more Nigerians in those societies than there citizens in Nigeria. Nigerians do well in those more evolved societies, better than some citizens in those countries but it would be foolish for Nigerians to claim that the society is evolved because of their presence. The rebuttal from the citizens of those countries would be, "if you are so great as to develop my society, why isn't your society better than mine or at least as developed as mine".

If there was an advantage to be derived from competitiveness and individualism, ALaigbo would be a shining example in developmental terms and the net migration from Alaigbo to other parts of Nigeria would have been reversed. Rather than have Igbos moving to other parts of Nigeria, you would have other Nigerians moving to Alaigbo.

Mr Achebe, talk is cheap. It is not important for you to claim superiority over others, it must be visible and demonstrated. Saying it doesn't make it so. The joke is on you.

Brilliant! - that was the same thing I was alluding to in my earlier post...

You can't judge success/superiority based on individualism, especially if the yardstick being used is based on achievements in foreign lands...

If that were to be the case, then Nigerian expat/diaspora should make Nigeria/Nigerians the most successful/superior group of black people on this planet...

We all know that's a fallacy!!

bashr8: igbo people or igbo region is sure doing better than most regions, point out which ethnic group is having it better than igbos in terms of pilitics, education, wealth ,commerce etc lets compare . we are first class citizens and will remain so unless you show us at least 2 ethnic groups out of the 250 ethnic groups that are doing better than igbos.

When was the last time you had someone preside over the affairs of this Nation as you did rate yourself high in politics. That was 46yrs ago, even the so called marginalised SS have produced one.
How has all your endeavours in commerce translated to the emancipation of your people in the East. You build houses in highbrow areas and investments outside the East which you are bound to lose if shit supposedly hits the fan.
Stop deceiving yourselves cos others see you as tools that can be discarded when the need arises.

bashr8: it might not be yoruba but am sure you get my point, we are not hanging whoever said it but disputing it with facts , competition is not superiority and boasting , we are not cattles we are human being he have to compete against ourselves, chalenge others and even taunt them with our achievements ,that how todays society works if not everybody will be laid back.

I agree with you but not in the manner Achebe is going about it. When we talk of educational historic achieve yes, When we talk of Ibeto, Innoson, Adenuga etc Yes not that YORUBAS ARE THIS, IGBOS ARE THAT. Competition can either be healthy and unhealthy, WE as a people younger generations need to be careful of what we take in as the truth and what we accept from our so called elders.

I challenge facts from all politicians be it hausa, igbo yoruba tive ijaw etc I could careless. Rather than talk on how to improve our various sector of specialisation we are talking about who is better in an ethnic frazzy

alj harem:

NO YORUBA MAN HAS CALLED HIMSELF "THE MOST SOPHISTICATED". They use "sophisticated politics" that SIR is a political statement not an inciting statement. How does sophisticated politics relates to superiority complex ?

No sir he did not, you cannot say one was better than the other and later say the other surpassed him. Not in this stage of our nation. That is very tribalistic on his own part.

If Fulanis talk about knowing the Quran more than other groups, They would be challenged.

This is no debate, WE CANNOT BE DEBATING ON HOW YORUBAS ARE BETTER THAN IGBOS OR HOW IGBOS ARE BETTER THAN HAUSA. It seems silly to me and any well thinking person, don't you think ?

so what makes you think your more sophiscated politically than other ethnic groups? whats the difference between achebes claim and yorubas claim ?

The Envy and hatred of Igbos was evident and obvious under our colonial masters yet they supported 'One Nigeria'. . . Achebe is definitely a 'bad loser'. . . Let him keep his fictions coming, you never can tell, one of these days he might just realize his life-long wish of N**** L******* Prize.

take dat: When was the last time you had someone preside over the affairs of this Nation as you did rate yourself high in politics. That was 46yrs ago, even the so called marginalised SS have produced one.
How has all your endeavours in commerce translated to the emancipation of your people in the East. You build houses in highbrow areas and investments outside the East which you are bound to lose if shit supposedly hits the fan.
Stop deceiving yourselves cos others see you as tools that can be discarded when the need arises.

we invest both in igboland and outside igboland, do you have a problem with that? first class citizens take advantage of what the country has to offer no matter the region while second class citizens are limited to only what their region have to offer, use you head for once. benefiting from my region and other region is an advantage not a disadvantage afterall thats what one nigeria is all about.

bashr8: you just wrote trash , how can a society improve if the individuals are not improving in their qualities, what are scholarships for . its a pity all of you here typing trash live in first world countries where govt focus on individuals, invest on them , hraness their talent then use it for the good of the society. theres is no net migration from igboland like you like to claim , igboland is over 25million strong and our total population is about 30 million. the net migration you claim can be applied to yorubas, chinese, europeans, american and hausas too going from your logic.

Clearly, you don't have the ability to analyse my post. A society that is 100% capitalistic is an individualistic and competitive one. Which is why those societies employ a social safety net. A society that invests in its people is not an individualistic and competitive one. The degree of safety net that the society provides determines whether it is a capitalistic, socialist, or communist one.

You don't understand the concept of net migration. I am not sure I have the patience to explain it to you now.

Katsumoto: Clearly, Achebe is not a deep thinker. He is a literary giant no doubt, but no more.

If he understands the evolution of society and the stages each group must pass through to evolve as a society, he would not tout, rather ignorantly, that individualism and competitiveness is an advantage. Individualism and competitiveness is merely an advantage for the individual but not society as a whole. Societies may or may not have social classes but they need hierarchies for them to function well. There is no great society without hierarchy. People who do well in such societies must find a way to compensate those who are not doing so well. The Romans gave the people gladiatorial arenas; the Europeans and Americans have social safety nets which the Asians are also replicating.

What Achebe sees as advancement in the form of Igbos settling in other places, others call it migration to seek opportunities in more evolved societies. Competitiveness and individualism meant that Alaigbo was not as evolved as other Nigerian societies. This competitiveness and individualism is still the reason why there is net migration from Alaigbo to other parts of Nigeria. For instance, there are Americans and Brits in Nigeria but there are more Nigerians in those societies than there citizens in Nigeria. Nigerians do well in those more evolved societies, better than some citizens in those countries but it would be foolish for Nigerians to claim that the society is evolved because of their presence. The rebuttal from the citizens of those countries would be, "if you are so great as to develop my society, why isn't your society better than mine or at least as developed as mine".

If there was an advantage to be derived from competitiveness and individualism, ALaigbo would be a shining example in developmental terms and the net migration from Alaigbo to other parts of Nigeria would have been reversed. Rather than have Igbos moving to other parts of Nigeria, you would have other Nigerians moving to Alaigbo.

Mr Achebe, talk is cheap. It is not important for you to claim superiority over others, it must be visible and demonstrated. Saying it doesn't make it so. The joke is on you.

my Gawd this is what we call money well spent in education.

Katsumoto: Clearly, Achebe is not a deep thinker. He is a literary giant no doubt, but no more.

If he understands the evolution of society and the stages each group must pass through to evolve as a society, he would not tout, rather ignorantly, that individualism and competitiveness is an advantage. Individualism and competitiveness is merely an advantage for the individual but not society as a whole. Societies may or may not have social classes but they need hierarchies for them to function well. There is no great society without hierarchy. People who do well in such societies must find a way to compensate those who are not doing so well. The Romans gave the people gladiatorial arenas; the Europeans and Americans have social safety nets which the Asians are also replicating.

What Achebe sees as advancement in the form of Igbos settling in other places, others call it migration to seek opportunities in more evolved societies. Competitiveness and individualism meant that Alaigbo was not as evolved as other Nigerian societies. This competitiveness and individualism is still the reason why there is net migration from Alaigbo to other parts of Nigeria. For instance, there are Americans and Brits in Nigeria but there are more Nigerians in those societies than there citizens in Nigeria. Nigerians do well in those more evolved societies, better than some citizens in those countries but it would be foolish for Nigerians to claim that the society is evolved because of their presence. The rebuttal from the citizens of those countries would be, "if you are so great as to develop my society, why isn't your society better than mine or at least as developed as mine".

If there was an advantage to be derived from competitiveness and individualism, ALaigbo would be a shining example in developmental terms and the net migration from Alaigbo to other parts of Nigeria would have been reversed. Rather than have Igbos moving to other parts of Nigeria, you would have other Nigerians moving to Alaigbo.

Mr Achebe, talk is cheap. It is not important for you to claim superiority over others, it must be visible and demonstrated. Saying it doesn't make it so. The joke is on you.

my Gawd this is what we call money well spent in education.

I bought the book last and I just opened it, and Achebe alluded to the book as not a balance account of the civil war because it was largely based on the account of notable Igbos like himself...

Obviously, that makes the book a pro-biafran book...

Much ado about nothing, I'm out...

bashr8: and so ? lazy man , if you like no go work buy your own land . lazy rat. if we call all of you lazy because of this your statement you wil start crying about how igbos insult other people.

see fool u know me at all just show how senseless you are. For you information I'm not an ethnic bigot like you. I look as ppl as individuals and not group but what do u know when you cannot think for ur self

ACHEBE IS TRUELY CORRECT. CAN U IMAGINE WHAT IS HAPPENING ON NL ALONE ALREADY?

bashr8: so what makes you think your more sophiscated politically than other ethnic groups? whats the difference between achebes claim and yorubas claim ?

DUDE it is a political statement. Do you know what a political move is ? This are verbal statements to influence or alter negotiations in politics

Katsumoto:

Have you read Azikiwe's speech to the Ibo Union in 1949, in which he talked about the superiority of the Ibo (his words) people?

Two years later, he sought, as leader of the NCNC, to become the premier of the Western Region. When he lost that election, he blamed it on cross-carpeting from NCNC to AG by people who didn't want an Igbo to lead them. Nevermind that he lost that election, isn't it astounding that a man who claimed superiority for his group, would then seek to lead another group?

I don't get it. It is as if their brains don't function properly.

You cannot insult me to my face and then the next day ask to lead me.

alj harem:

I agree with you but not in the manner Achebe is going about it. When we talk of educational historic achieve yes, When we talk of Ibeto, Innoson, Adenuga etc Yes not that YORUBAS ARE THIS, IGBOS ARE THAT. Competition can either be healthy and unhealthy, WE as a people younger generations need to be careful of what we take in as the truth and what we accept from our so called elders.

I challenge facts from all politicians be it hausa, igbo yoruba tive ijaw etc I could careless. Rather than talk on how to improve our various sector of specialisation we are talking about who is better in an ethnic frazzy

ethnicity is something we cannot throw away , so far nobody is insulting anybody or killing anybody i dont see why you should get mad if an ethnic grou claims of being at an advantage in a particular section. all you need to do is try to out comepete them. even withing ethni groups there are competitions , the role of the central govt is to harness the positive aspects or all ethnic groups and use it for the good of the nation or society .

So, to conclude.

I think we can all agree that Nigerians are not unjust in hating Igbos, if Achebe's attitude is at all common.

Is this a fair statement? I think even a neutral third party would agree to this.

Arsenate: my Gawd this is what we call money well spent in education.

You can say that again, I trained Katz and fstranger those chaps are brilliant proud to be a father of brilliant boys

I'm not surprised the page has gone this far. Nigeria will never be one as long as elders who should know better keep opening healed wound.
Nelson Mandela at that time suffered more than any Ibo man. He was jailed for 27 years. But when he came out, he forgave them and has since move on. ACHEBE MOVE ON.

Oo shyte.this place is HELL...lemme run b4 I get caught.


Foolishness is the fastest killer

The funny thing about all of this is that the more Achebe talks, the more my beloved Awolowo is vindicated

I hope he continues talking.

Katsumoto:

Clearly, you don't have the ability to analyse my post. A society that is 100% capitalistic is an individualistic and competitive one. Which is why those societies employ a social safety net. A society that invests in its people is not an individualistic and competitive one. The degree of safety net that the society provides determines whether it is a capitalistic, socialist, or communist one.

You don't understand the concept of net migration. I am not sure I have the patience to explain it to you now.

you only se net migration where you want to see it, it can apply to chinese since they are verywhere, it can apply to indians, europeans, yorubas who live all over the world even in unknown nations, fulanis etc. stop deluding yourself. over 80 percent of igbos live in igboland .onitsha, aba and ph are over crowded already .

we pratice capitalism and until we switch to socialism the individual remains the driving force. he pays tax, employs peopela and even train others , the govt uses the tax and resources to improve infrastructures(health ,schools), offer scholarships and loans to more individuals and the cycle continues.

I REPEAT.achebe is a historian and he just put another in prints.history does not call for a fight but reflections and learning for great minds.igbos have never unitedly screamed 'hatred' but its underneath every actions and reactions we observe in our daily individual and national life.have the igbos fought for marginalization it has suffered over the years as a body? the answer is no.but just that a man of history told a story the whole tribes especially yorubas are now casting aspersions. what will now happen if the whole igbos say presidency or never.wont heads roll by these so called haters.igbos have been peace loving people thats why you find them everywhere in the spirit of oneness even in the territory of their enemies.there is a saying that anywhere you dont find an igbo man,run for your dear life-its not inhabitable

blasterman: see fool u know me at all just show how senseless you are. For you information I'm not an ethnic bigot like you. I look as ppl as individuals and not group but what do u know when you cannot think for ur self

your the fool here , you came out threatning that lands are on lease. what point where you trying to make ? that one day igbos will loose their lands which they bought with their hard earned money? you are lower than a human being if not you wont make such stuupid statement and your a lazy baboon for even thinking of such.

No problem. His iboz will pay with their lives when the time comes. iboz comments will be printed and shown to them at their sacrificial altar. Meanwhile Aschebe is hiding away in the US and he is definitely not coming back to Nigeria.

bashr8: ethnicity is something we cannot throw away , so far nobody is insulting anybody or killing anybody i dont see why you should get mad if an ethnic grou claims of being at an advantage in a particular section. all you need to do is try to out comepete them. even withing ethni groups there are competitions , the role of the central govt is to harness the positive aspects or all ethnic groups and use it for the good of the nation or society .

You make me laugh, don't you know the way humans react ?

Have you not heard the saying "when push turns to shove" It is from words emotions and sentiments are generated

Hitler use the same tactics on Jews, Rwanda used the same etc

Again competition is good if it is healthy

We need to be careful of what we say and do. Achebe is an elder whom is well respect all over the world but his recent actions have pulled him down whether I say it or not.

Who gave him the idea that people hate Igbos? Are they better than all the tribes?

If we have to go deep into their short comings, fraud, crime, international theft, rituals and the likes that abound amongst his people, he would have a rethink.

Let him stop these paranoia. The Ibos make a bulk of Jonathan's govt and they are hated.
You can't attack every body and survive

alj harem:

DUDE it is a political statement. Do you know what a political move is ? This are verbal statements to influence or alter negotiations in politics

you are right but that is for politicians and technocrats . historians and writers put it as they see it. achebe is not a politician neither is soyinka who also dont make politically correct statements.

shymexx: I bought the book last and I just opened it, and Achebe alluded to the book as not a balance account of the civil war because it was largely based on the account of notable Igbos like himself...

Obviously, that makes the book a pro-biafran book...

Much ado about nothing, I'm out...

there was no point going that far, the man is good at Fiction and not the true stories

bashr8: you only se net migration where you want to see it, it can apply to chinese since they are verywhere, it can apply to indians, europeans, yorubas who live all over the world even in unknown nations, fulanis etc. stop deluding yourself. over 80 percent of igbos live in igboland .onitsha, aba and ph are over crowded already .

we pratice capitalism and until we switch to socialism the individual remains the driving force. he pays tax, employs peopela and even train others , the govt uses the tax and resources to improve infrastructures(health ,schools), offer scholarships and loans to more individuals and the cycle continues.

You're not intelligent and articulate enough to engage anyone in a debate... Why can't you get one of your intelligent folks to do that??

Stop embarrassing your people smh..

Please ladies and gents, boys and girls, I assume all of you are highly educated- with that presumption in mind, please take time to read the post, reread it again.
1. In no where did the post allude to any form of superiority to any group, rather it said "advantage" meaning that it was originally backward.
2. The post said that federation failed to harness the various cultural traits of the multiethnic groups to move the country forward. In the case of the IBos read "partly" meaning not wholly the same can be applied to any ethnic group. I believed he used Ibos here as an example because it is the group he is very much conversant with.

I simply do not know what the brouhaha is here all one has to do is sit back and analyse the writers statements.
3. He never said individualism overall is better than other form of cultural traits.

PLEASE ONCE AGAIN GUYS READ AND COMPREHEND