chukwudi44:

So because he is to lead the battle @ the time of the end make him the captain of angels? Micheal is clearly stated as not been the only arch angel.Where did you read that he is the captain of all angels?

Bro, speak to the bible, i only present to you what it says, i did not add to Joshua 5:14.

chukwudi44:

So because he is to lead the battle @ the time of the end make him the captain of angels? Micheal is clearly stated as not been the only arch angel.Where did you read that he is the captain of all angels?

My own wahala is no angel what so ever was given the responsibilty to fight satan and his angels except Jesus himself.....no angel was given that power to ressurect the dead.....




Michael doesn't just fight for the people of i§real(both the physical isreal and spiritual isreal) he can also ressurect.......


I Repeat no angel can do that....only Jesus has been bestowed with such power from GÓd....

Michael won't rise up in the last days with great tribulations as a sign of his preseÑce ,ressurects the dead and then simultaneously Jesus does the same......it doesn't and can't work that way.............if michael works for Jesus it should have been stated that michael recieves power to war against satan and then to ressurect the dead from Jesus......but ofcus nothing of such exists,rather micheal does the ressurecting himself along with His angels......remember I'm drawing parallels here and not just claiming to run into an infallible coÑclusion.....

chukwudi.....can you mention the names of the other arch angels??..........

The 66 books I have shows and mentions only one arch angel and not ""arch angels""............

And its like you guys define or think the word angel to just mean one thing......

Abi??................


Let us see the definition of( arch)...

Prieminent,chief,head,superior....
_______________________
Let's see the definition of an angel:::

Gods messanger,heavenly being,supernatural being,divine messanger.....

Can anybody tell me if Jesus wasn't and isn't a messanger of Yahweh......if Jesus isn't a me§sanger of Yahweh prove me wrong.....

plappville:

Bro, speak to the bible, i only present to you what it says, i did not add to Joshua 5:14.

Simply kweshion show me from the bible where the man of God Joshua met was described as angel micheal

The OT identified this Being as the angel of the Lord, but to Joshua, He identifies Himself as the "captain of the Lord's Host"! Be truthful enough to ask yourself, Who is that? Who is the captain of the Lord's Host that accepted worship from Josua?

In Revelation 12:7 says it is "Michael" that led the Angel armies in Heaven. I will repost it, the scripture speaks not me.

12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Revelation

Did you not hear scripture telling you that the angels in Heaven are Michael's angels? and that Michael leads His angels in battle against Satan!
My broda, if you have eyes, you will understand this simple scriptures. Michael is indeed the Captain of the angels.
He is their leader.

If you Put Joshua 5 and Revelation 12 together, we see that Joshua saw a man who idetified himself as the captain/commander or prince of the host of the Lord. That man was also identified as being the Lord in Chapter 6. you can read the entire chapter 6 for a better understanding.

Joshua 6:27 So the LORD was with Joshua, and his fame spread throughout the land.

Daniel 10:13

13 But for twenty-one days the spirit prince* of the kingdom of Persia blocked my way. Then Michael,[/b] one of the archangels [b] came to help me, and I left him there with the spirit prince of the kingdom of Persia.*

The boldened portion makes it so evident micheal is not the only arch angel.It calls him one of the arch angels meaning there were other arch angels.

FYI the bible has 73 books and not 66.The first christian canon to be addressed by the term bible had 73 books so if you have anything other than that better look for another term to describe it but it is definitely not the bible.

The arch angel Raphael is mentioned tobit.There he decleared that he is one of the 7 angels who stand before the presense of God.There same thing is repeated by John in Revelations when he said "I saw the 7 angels who stand before the presence of God"

The man in Josua 5 :14 was never described as an angel stop making things up please

Boomark:

Can't open pdf file with my phone. I think you have referred me to that site before. When i asked you similar question on your thread about Christ pre-existence but could not get anything tangible from the site.

I remember i was 1st or 2nd to post on that thread.

3 questions.

1. Why did Jesus have to pre-exist ?
2. What did he pre-exist as , an angel or the second person of the Trinity ?
3. Why is it difficult to accept the plain truth that Jesus was born as MAN by the power of GOD and according to his plan and purpose ?

Kindly compare this two scriptures
Tobit 12 :15

I am Raphael one of the seven angels who stand in the glorious presense of the Lord ready to serve him.

Rev 8:2

Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God and they were given seven trumpets.

chukwudi44: The man in Josua 5 :14 was never described as an angel stop making things up please

So He was discribed as Jesus? if this be it, then you are equally saying that Jesus is the Captain/commander of God's army. A role Michael played in Rev 12:7.

Joshua 5 :14"Neither," he replied, "but as commander of the [b] army [/b]of the LORD I have now come." Then Joshua fell facedown to the ground in reverence, and asked him, "What message does my Lord have for his servant?"

Who is the army of the Lord? angels or you? and if angels, who is thier leader? Captain? the answer is in Rev 12:7.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.

chukwudi44: Kindly compare this two scriptures
Tobit 12 :15

I am Raphael one of the seven angels who stand in the glorious presense of the Lord ready to serve him.

Rev 8:2

Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God and they were given seven trumpets.

Was rapheal called ""the arch angel"".....??.......only michael in the bible is reffered to as ""the arch angel""

See my brother.......this michael the arch angel we are discussing about is the prince of Gods people......he is called the great prince......he does have the power to ressurect........

Can any other spirit son of God ressurect the dead apart from Jesus??..........

That is my question......

frosbel:

3 questions.

1. Why did Jesus have to pre-exist ?
2. What did he pre-exist as , an angel or the second person of the Trinity ?
3. Why is it difficult to accept the plain truth that Jesus was born as MAN by the power of GOD and according to his plan and purpose ?

1.....Jesus pre-existed because he was the beginning of Gods creation.........he had to pre-exist because God saw that he pre-exists like every other spirit creature in heaven,but Jesus being the first of them all....

2.....Jesus pre-existed as a spirit,a heavenly being(not part of a trinity).........he has always been the son of GOD....he is Gods First born......

3....Nobody is arguing that Jesus wasn't born as a man to live here on earth and die for us,all what we are saying is that Jesus had lived in heaven before he's descending to the earth through mary...............

Scriptural evidence proves that.....

@ john 3;13 Jesus said ::::

New International Version (©1984)
No one has ever gone into heaven except the
one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.
_____________________

John 1:18 also says a lot of Jesus' pre-existence before his descending to the earth..

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
No man has seen God at any time; the only
begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the
Father, he has declared him.
__________________
Jesus could explain Yahweh so well not only because he was filled with Gods spirit,but also because he had lived in heaven close to his Father prior to his coming to the earth.....

I have already posted daniel 10:13
Where micheal is described as one of the arch angels yet you are still claiming he is the only arch angel nawaaoo.Even if I don't push my argument that Raphael is an arch angel that verse alone proves micheal is not the only arch angel

plappville:

So He was discribed as Jesus? if this be it, then you are equally saying that Jesus is the Captain/commander of God's army. A role Michael played in Rev 12:7.

Joshua 5 :14"Neither," he replied, "but as commander of the [b] army [/b]of the LORD I have now come." Then Joshua fell facedown to the ground in reverence, and asked him, "What message does my Lord have for his servant?"

Who is the army of the Lord? angels or you? and if angels, who is thier leader? Captain? the answer is in Rev 12:7.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.

The identity of the man Joshua met was never disclosed.He was only described as the commander of the Lords army.

The revelation 12 :7 somply says micheal and his angels.There is nothing in that verse to conclude micheal is captain of all angels.There could be more than one battallion of angels

chukwudi44: I have already posted daniel 10:13
Where micheal is described as one of the arch angels yet you are still claiming he is the only arch angel nawaaoo.Even if I don't push my argument that Raphael is an arch angel that verse alone proves micheal is not the only arch angel

So answer my last question so that I can sleep......

Can any other spirit son of God ressurect the dead especially in the end time apart from Jesus ??.....do other angels have the power to ressurect the dead??.......



Na wetin I just wan know......

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

New King James Version (NKJV)

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

This bible passage in no way suggests the dead in christ were raised by the arch angel.This verse says christ will descend with the arch angel and with the sounding of trumpet.it never said the dead were raised buy the arch angel.

Even if the dead were raised by the arch angel it still dosen't proove he is Jesus since several other biblical characters including Elijah,Elisha,Peter and Paul achieved similar feats.We all know they did it with the power of God and not their own power.Elisha even raised a man from the dead while he was dead so your case holds no water

chukwudi44: 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

New King James Version (NKJV)

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

This bible passage in no way suggests the dead in christ were raised by the arch angel.This verse says christ will descend with the arch angel and with the sounding of trumpet.it never said the dead were raised buy the arch angel.

Even if the dead were raised by the arch angel it still dosen't proove he is Jesus since several other biblical characters including Elijah,Elisha,Peter and Paul achieved similar feats.We all know they did it with the power of God and not their own power.Elisha even raised a man from the dead while he was dead so your case holds no water

Daniel 12:2 says when he(michal) rises ""many"" who were deÀd will rise and be judged to either eternal life or everlasting contempt......

I believe elijah and peter did that too....abi??........

Read daniel 12:2 and juxtapose it with the thessalonians you quoted along with john 5:28$ 29 and tell me who else has been bestowed with the power and authority to ressurect the dead in the end time and judge them.....

Daniel 12:1-3

New International Version (NIV)

The End Times

12 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise[a] will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever

There is still nothing in this passage that suggest micheal was the one who raised those people from their graves.

This passage only describes what will happen during the end times.God can use anyone to achieve his aim.Peter,Paul,Ezekiel e.t.c were also used by God to raise people from the dead.Eziekiel was even used to accomplish the incredible feat of raising up dry bonesback to life but the fact remains that God simply used them.He can also use me and you

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

I don't see how this proves your point.1 thes 5:16 clearly states that Jesus will appear with the arch angel and a great shout

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

The dead obviously rose @ the shout of the Lord so how does that proves your point? Is it just because an arch angel will accompany him

chukwudi44: Daniel 12:1-3

New International Version (NIV)

The End Times

12 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise[a] will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever

There is still nothing in this passage that suggest micheal was the one who raised those people from their graves.

This passage only describes what will happen during the end times.God can use anyone to achieve his aim.Peter,Paul,Ezekiel e.t.c were also used by God to raise people from the dead.Eziekiel was even used to accomplish the incredible feat of raising up dry bonesback to life but the fact remains that God simply used them.He can also use me and you

Hmmmm.......you want to tell me that from dan 12;1-3 you couldn't figure out that it was as a result of michael once more standing for Gods people that multitudes would be ressurected and judged??........its clear for everyone to see o......

And don't you dare comparÉ michaels actions with that of Élijah's or any other human......michaels arising for Gods people brings about great tribulation and then the dead ressurected and judged to either eternal life or eternal contempt............

And to be more specific this happens at the end time Not just anytime...........

Note:::::....gaining eternal life does not depend on knwing wether arch angÉl michael is Jesus or not,its just an observation......

chukwudi44:
I don't see how this proves your point.1 thes 5:16 clearly states that Jesus will appear with the arch angel and a great shout

That verse does not say Jesus will appear with the arch angel.....please read it well....

It says Jesus himself will descend from heaven
with a shout, with the voice of an archangel....
_____________________

Boomark: @barristers

Don't say am confused when you don't know what it means to be similar to the sons of men. Who are men(human beings) btw?

With reference to v21
Just like a general. A soldier under the command of a general will not tell you that the general is helping him to fight boko haram.

Michael is the commander of God's army and atimes also appear as a man. Note that the arch angel is very great and mighty. Infact when i read where God told the israelites to obey him and that he(Michael) might not forgive them if they disobey him, i begin dey fear him o. He does not only commands God's army but we all also. He is our commander.

The one similar to the sons of men is also a fighter and said that the arch angel is helping him to hold the force. This shows that he is greater.

So tell me who is it that the commander is helping?

Boomark: @barristers

Don't say am confused when you don't know what it means to be similar to the sons of men. Who are men(human beings) btw?

With reference to v21
Just like a general. A soldier under the command of a general will not tell you that the general is helping him to fight boko haram.

Michael is the commander of God's army and atimes also appear as a man. Note that the arch angel is very great and mighty. Infact when i read where God told the israelites to obey him and that he(Michael) might not forgive them if they disobey him, i begin dey fear him o. He does not only commands God's army but we all also. He is our commander.

The one similar to the sons of men is also a fighter and said that the arch angel is helping him to hold the force. This shows that he is greater.

So tell me who is it that the commander is helping?

Boomark: @barristers

Don't say am confused when you don't know what it means to be similar to the sons of men. Who are men(human beings) btw?

With reference to v21
Just like a general. A soldier under the command of a general will not tell you that the general is helping him to fight boko haram.

Michael is the commander of God's army and atimes also appear as a man. Note that the arch angel is very great and mighty. Infact when i read where God told the israelites to obey him and that he(Michael) might not forgive them if they disobey him, i begin dey fear him o. He does not only commands God's army but we all also. He is our commander.

The one similar to the sons of men is also a fighter and said that the arch angel is helping him to hold the force. This shows that he is greater.

So tell me who is it that the commander is helping?

Exodus 23:21: According to Biblical scholars, the Angel refered to in Exodus 23:21 is the Pre-incarnate Jesus Christ, definitely not Michael.

Let us try to clarify what we mean by archangel here.

What Is an Archangel?

The word archangel is mentioned twice in Scripture. The Greek word is archaggelos which is a combination of archo (meaning "first" in political rank or power) and aggelos (meaning "messenger". An archangel by definition is the first or highest angel and leader of the angels. It denotes a definite distinction of rank for a special service, as in chief priest or chief shepherd.

The only angel mentioned to be an archangel in the Bible is Michael (Jude 1:9). The other Scripture that mentions an archangel is in reference to the coming of Christ: "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first" (I Thessalonians 4:16). This event is described in detail in Revelation chapters 10 and 11.


Besides Michael and Gabriel, apocryphal books and historical documents mention names of other angels. The Bible makes reference to seven angels in Revelation (1:20, 3:1, 4:5, 8:2, and 10:7) who have been placed over the seven churches and also carry out the seven judgments on the earth. These may be the seven archangels named in extra-biblical writings.

The Book of Enoch tells of seven powerful angels (20:1-. Uriel, who is set over the world and over Tartarus; Raphael, who is set over the spirits of men; Raguel, who takes vengeance on the world of the luminaries; Michael, who is set over the best part of mankind, over chaos, and over Israel; Saraqael, who is set over the evil spirits; Gabriel, who is set over Paradise, the serpents (seraphim), and the cherubim; and Remiel, whom God set over those who rise.

Source: http://www.christcenteredmall.com/teachings/angels_5.htm

ijawkid:

Hmmmm.......you want to tell me that from dan 12;1-3 you couldn't figure out that it was as a result of michael once more standing for Gods people that multitudes would be ressurected and judged??........its clear for everyone to see o......

And don't you dare comparÉ michaels actions with that of Élijah's or any other human......michaels arising for Gods people brings about great tribulation and then the dead ressurected and judged to either eternal life or eternal contempt............

And to be more specific this happens at the end time Not just anytime...........

Note:::::....gaining eternal life does not depend on knwing wether arch angÉl michael is Jesus or not,its just an observation......

I insist there is nothing in that verse that suggests those people were raised by micheal. I do not deny the fact that God can use micheal to accomplish such feat but there is nothing In that passage to suggest micheal did raise them.You guys are merely speculating.

During the end times as clearly described in Revelation micheal was not the only angel assigned tasks.The other six other angels were also assigned major tasks.

Raising of people or person from the dead does not prove anyone is christ.God can always use anyone to achieve his goal.

ijawkid:

That verse does not say Jesus will appear with the arch angel.....please read it well....

It says Jesus himself will descend from heaven
with a shout, with the voice of an archangel....
_____________________

At least that verse makes it clear that the Lord's verse will be heard.even though an arch angels voice is mentioned micheal's name is not mentioned.As clearly seen from Daniel 10:13 micheal is not the only arch angel.although he is the only one among the arch angels to be named in the canonised scriptures

several biblical and extrabiblical books keep mentioning of seven major angels who are most likely arch angels alongside him.while there are not explicitly called arch angels,it appears there are also arch angels alongside micheal.

The point is this;The term arch angel does not necessary mean it is referring to angel micheal.Other arch angels also exist.

[/quote]Note:::::....gaining eternal life does not depend on knwing wether arch angÉl michael is Jesus or not,its just an observation. [quote]

Do you seriously think that if on the last day Jesus is eventually revealed to be God he will be happy with you guys? Or maybe if he is eventually discovered to be angel micheal he would be happy with the trinitarians?

Olboy better open yourd eyes and make the best decision now there is nothing like sitting on the fence here.

chukwudi44: Note:::::....gaining eternal life does not depend on knwing wether arch angÉl michael is Jesus or not,its just an observation.


Do you seriously think that if on the last day Jesus is eventually revealed to be God he will be happy with you guys? Or maybe if he is eventually discovered to be angel micheal he would be happy with the trinitarians?

Olboy better open yourd eyes and make the best decision now there is nothing like sitting on the fence here.

Jesus still isn't part of a trinity,wether he is the arch angel or not.......that the bible has shown.......so many scriptures to prove that......

chukwudi44:

At least that verse makes it clear that the Lord's verse will be heard.even though an arch angels voice is mentioned micheal's name is not mentioned.As clearly seen from Daniel 10:13 micheal is not the only arch angel.although he is the only one among the arch angels to be named in the canonised scriptures

several biblical and extrabiblical books keep mentioning of seven major angels who are most likely arch angels alongside him.while there are not explicitly called arch angels,it appears there are also arch angels alongside micheal.

The point is this;The term arch angel does not necessary mean it is referring to angel micheal.Other arch angels also exist.

You too also have the difficulty of proving with the 66 books that there are other arch angels and also there names....

Michael is the only arch angel the scriptures recognizes....

And could you mind telling us the role of these other arch angels from the other books??....do they also ressurect persons in the last days??.......

and my point still remains that Jesus from the bible has been shown to also be the captain of Yahwehs myriads of angels.........plappville showed that.....

chukwudi44:

I insist there is nothing in that verse that suggests those people were raised by micheal. I do not deny the fact that God can use micheal to accomplish such feat but there is nothing In that passage to suggest micheal did raise them.You guys are merely speculating.

During the end times as clearly described in Revelation micheal was not the only angel assigned tasks.The other six other angels were also assigned major tasks.

Raising of people or person from the dead does not prove anyone is christ.God can always use anyone to achieve his goal.

And I reiterate that that verse has everything to do with michaels standing up in the last days and ressurection taking place as a result of that....its clear..........he stands up,untold great tribulations occurs and then ressurection and judgement......these are exactly what Jesus is suppose to do.....

We are not speculating,daniel says that this is what will happen in the end times,,,,,,,......

Raising ¶eople from from the dead aÑd judgÍng them to Éternal life or damnation is a job given to Jesus and only Jesus by Yahweh.....don't tell me you don't know that.............

I' ve also told you to stop comparing the petty miracles elijah and peter performed with what daniel says michael wiLl do in the end times....

This michael and his angels fought with satan and his angels...................no be moi moi be that.....that is exactly Jesus' assignment....

chukwudi44:

I insist there is nothing in that verse that suggests those people were raised by micheal. I do not deny the fact that God can use micheal to accomplish such feat but there is nothing In that passage to suggest micheal did raise them.You guys are merely speculating.

During the end times as clearly described in Revelation micheal was not the only angel assigned tasks.The other six other angels were also assigned major tasks.

Raising of people or person from the dead does not prove anyone is christ.God can always use anyone to
achieve his goal.

Take ur time to find what the name Michael means in Hebrew. Do you know that even in the Torah:
Michael is discribed in Daniel 12:21 of as "the great Prince" who will protect Gods people even during the struggle between gud and evil at the end of the world.? This matches with Rev 12:7
Jesus Himself Used this book when He was on earth.

I am going to Illustrate during the day, what it means to raise multitude with a voice. Only Jesus can do that. Not those you claim to be following him. Scripture will fit scriptures.

Gud morning house.
Since you already know what His position.

chukwudi44: Daniel 12:1-3

New International Version (NIV)

The End Times

12 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise[a] will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like
the stars for ever and ever

There is still nothing in this passage that suggest micheal was the one who raised those
people from their graves.

This passage only describes what will happen during the end times.God can use anyone to achieve his aim.Peter,Paul,Ezekiel e.t.c were also used by God to raise people from
the dead.Eziekiel was even used to accomplish the incredible feat of raising up dry bonesback to life but the fact remains that God simply used them.He can also use me and you

You are only pretending not to be seeing the plain meaning of scripture, just like @frosbel keep blind eyes to scriptures that proved Christ preexistance.
Nothing is as worse as this. If the bible says A is A who are we to say its a let down?

ijawkid:

You too also have the difficulty of proving with the 66 books that there are other arch angels and also there names....

Michael is the only arch angel the scriptures recognizes....

And could you mind telling us the role of these other arch angels from the other books??....do they also ressurect persons in the last days??.......

and my point still remains that Jesus from the bible has been shown to also be the captain of Yahwehs myriads of angels.........plappville showed that.....

The Dan 10:13 I quoted is it not from your protestant canon? Is that verse not clear enough?

3 But for twenty-one days the spirit prince* of the kingdom of Persia blocked my way. Then Michael,[/b] one of the archangels [b] came to help me, and I left him there with the spirit prince of the kingdom of Persia.*

Micheal is not the only arch angel,he is only one of the arch angels shikena

There is no where either in the biblical or extra-biblical canon where micheal is described as captain of angels.Rev 12:17 says micheal and his angels. It does not say micheal is the captain of all angels shikena