ayobase:

It did of course, but it has made us stronger!

stronger ke! It has weaken US instead. Every normal Nigerian could see its effect now, even YOU @ op
...

.

pro01: Could Africa have achieved civilisation (or at least the semblance of it) and (under)development without the intervention of the European invaders - and eventual colonial masters? I seriously doubt it. We would probably still have a very tribal existence (of the sort we see on Discovery Channel) were it not for the 'exposure' the Europeans brought along with them.

If Africa has not been able to get it right in spite of globalisation and notwithstanding several modern paradigms of development to copy from in this day and age, then I am NOT convinced that we might have fared better without colonialism. We would simply have continued to grope in the dark.

Mr man, go & get a book & educate yourself would you? Who told you Europeans brought civilization to Africa? Prior to the invasion (colonialism) of Africa by Europeans, Africa was doing SUPER-GREAT. We were mainly empires. The Kingdom of Mali, The Borno empire, The Oyo empire, the Sokoto caliphate etc. From what I've read, the Borno empire was a really strong Kingdom (militarily, politically & economically) that had strong influences at least across West Africa. Have you ever heard that "AFRICA IS THE HOME OF CIVILIZATION?" You had better believed that. Forget all those European lies about Africans being naked when they came. BIG LIES.
Before the Europeans came, We had ships, we had gold, we had infrastructure etc. All these we built by ourselves (without knowing that some other races existed). We built Egypt, Ancient Pharaohs & Egyptians (& indeed all North Africans) were all black Africans until a war with the neighbouring Arabs to the east that led to a defeat & thereby causing these Arabs to take over our lands & it's marvels. Prisoners of wars probably were taken as slaves by the Arabs & they continued to infiltrate North Africa for all the goodies & natives had to keep migrating southward for fear of abduction for slavery.
It was probably this vulnerability that the Europeans (who were already trading with us) capitalized on & started to steal our resources, invade our territories, enslave & colonize us. Don't let anybody deceive you, these people used to look up to us. These people used to come to admire and marvel at our civilization. Many Africans & blacks are ignorant of their history & these people would ensure to the best of their abilities that it stays that way cos they fear that if we know our true history, we would fight for it & dominate the world again & they don't want that. Why do you think they threat blacks harshly all over the world? The truth is that they sub-consciously feel a complex (for those of them that know this history) & they in turn want to play psychological games by making Blacks feel inferior or worthless. Why do you think the western media hardly has anything good to say about Africa? They keep showing the world that African children die of hunger, malaria, kwashioko, aids etc.... Be honest with yourself, me & you live in Africa. How many times have you seen those things in real life? (even though they exist.) The plan is to subconsciously make everyone feel sorry for Africans thereby making Ignorant Africans "look up" to them & if you don't follow their dictates, they make you feel like you're unappreciative of their help to have delivered you from a "sub-human" life & they start treating you like trash again. Bob Marley said "If you know your history, you would know where you're coming from." Go listen to BUFFALO SOLDIER by Bob Marley & you'd learn a bit more about what I've just written here. Also go read about ancient Africa & know your history. Cheers.
God Bless Nigeria. Amen.

ayobase:

And the journey of 40 days might turn 40 years.
.
What has happened has happened. We do not need to cry over spilled milk...we should be grateful and appreciate those who gave up their lives....lets enjoy what they have sowed!
.

Its easy to say lets enjoy but its also good to know the fact... The Ethopians today would have been one of the world power if not for colonialism. In the past they were rated high and were respected by many... Nigeria would have been somewhere better if not for colonialism.
If U talk of rituals and sacrifices, till today its still on in 9ja and other countries only that its done in ã diplomatic way now. But theirs is even more than ours.

pro01: Could Africa have achieved civilisation (or at least the semblance of it) and (under)development without the intervention of the European invaders - and eventual colonial masters? I seriously doubt it. We would probably still have a very tribal existence (of the sort we see on Discovery Channel) were it not for the 'exposure' the Europeans brought along with them.

If Africa has not been able to get it right in spite of globalisation and notwithstanding several modern paradigms of development to copy from in this day and age, then I am NOT convinced that we might have fared better without colonialism. We would simply have continued to grope in the dark.

The europeans should have let the african natives self-evolve. I also don't know that the african continent was dark at any point in time; that crept into the lexicon from white supremacists since Conrad's masterpiece: "heart of darkness". Africa was self governing, maybe not with the same mercurial pace of the europeans, but they were nevertheless evolving gradually and shoud have been let alone.

Joshalpha: we'll knw which heritage?? If in some places in africa, despite globalisation and world development, rituals are stl done, people stl go abt half naked, d worst form of occultism is stl being practised, imagine, how africa wudv bn widout colonialism..nt saying it was entirely good, bt then, d merits overshadow d d emerits

Are you ã Nigerian? Seriously your statement dey shame me. Don't the whites do rituals(even in 9ja d whites do crazy rituals before they embark on any job in the sea like oil job)? They they walk almost naked(with pant and bra)? Or will you say they don't have occult there(Illuminati/free manson/sorcerers/and many more)? Or ... Abegi don't say what you know not.

Wonderful post @op, I bet every one who went thru this post would definitely pic up something new. However colonialism as the word itself implies does not carry an European face. Excluding Egypt and Ethiopia whose histories date way back to the times of the Sumerians, Arcadians and other ancient races, other countries like Mali and its great Sankore University, Tunisia, Borno and Sokoto Caliphate owe their existense and fame to Arab invader who were spreading their own Islamic civilization. So we are back at square one (you are condemning Europeans yet forgeting that even the Arabs were doing the same thing too), and believe me the Arabs apart from the unifying religion think little of the black man, the Arab word for the black man is Abeed (a word that means slave) go and ask black Africans in Lybia.

Hate it or love it no system is perfect but I believe Western civilization has done more good than harm.

I believe we are not developed enough for our time. A baby, perhaps begins to crawl first until he can stand. He then begins to walk supported by walls until he can hold his footing. Now he'll walk although stagger and fall so many times. However, how would a baby, born today and becomes and adult tommorow fare? He'll become 'agbaya' and thats what Nigeria is. The national IQ is too small to handle this civilisation. We didnt work for it. We have'nt learnt our sciences well and i mean from the basics: our kids use apple and parents fly in private jets, who cares. Imagine when you wake up in the future; the world is done already, discoveries, sciences, arts all done. You become carried away by the civilisation and luxuries that you'r too lazy to bother to think about developments. How do i blame we youths. You teach me theories about science when Ipads, jets cars and whatnots are being made , my mind won't be there mostdef. We are stuck, lost and confuse. Thats who colonization made us...lol

I believe we are not developed enough for our time. A baby, perhaps begins to crawl first until he can stand. He then begins to walk supported by walls until he can hold his footing. Now he'll walk although stagger and fall so many times. However, how would a baby, born today and becomes and adult tommorow fare? He'll become 'agbaya' and thats what Nigeria is. The national IQ is too small to handle this civilisation. We didnt work for it. We have'nt learnt our sciences well and i mean from the basics: our kids use apple and parents fly in private jets, who cares. Imagine when you wake up in the future; the world is done already, discoveries, sciences, arts all done. You become carried away by the civilisation and luxuries that you'r too lazy to bother to think about developments. How do i blame we youths. You teach me theories about science when Ipads, jets cars and whatnots are being made , my mind won't be there mostdef. We are stuck, lost and confuse. Thats who colonization made us...lol

WillyWest: Wonderful post @op, I bet every one who went thru this post would definitely pic up something new. However colonialism as the word itself implies does not carry an European face. Excluding Egypt and Ethiopia whose histories date way back to the times of the Sumerians, Arcadians and other ancient races, other countries like Mali and its great Sankore University, Tunisia, Borno and Sokoto Caliphate owe their existense and fame to Arab invader who were spreading their own Islamic civilization. So we are back at square one (you are condemning Europeans yet forgeting that even the Arabs were doing the same thing too), and believe me the Arabs apart from the unifying religion think little of the black man, the Arab word for the black man is Abeed (a word that means slave) go and ask black Africans in Lybia.

Hate it or love it no system is perfect but I believe Western civilization has done more good than harm.

There were African civilizations before islam or the Arab conquest.

Logicboy03: [size=14pt]I am happy that some people here clearly stated that we shouldnt celebrate colonialism. However, there are still some slaves that praise colonialism!

For those slaves who love colonialism, remember that the Europeans were packing slaves and plundering our resources for over 300 hundred years. The first school that Nigeria got was in the 19th century after 300 years of slavery (the Europeans came since the 16th century). Apparently, they thought that schools were too good at the time for slave monkeys

[/size]



[size=28pt]China and Japan were never colonized. We see the British and American paying huge amounts of money to learn the Asian languages as these two countries play a major role in the world.
[/size]

Food for thought

[/size]

Zico0: I believe we are not developed enough for our time. A baby, perhaps begins to crawl first until he can stand. He then begins to walk supported by walls until he can hold his footing. Now he'll walk although stagger and fall so many times. However, how would a baby, born today and becomes and adult tommorow fare? He'll become 'agbaya' and thats what Nigeria is. The national IQ is too small to handle this civilisation. We didnt work for it. We have'nt learnt our sciences well and i mean from the basics: our kids use apple and parents fly in private jets, who cares. Imagine when you wake up in the future; the world is done already, discoveries, sciences, arts all done. You become carried away by the civilisation and luxuries that you'r too lazy to bother to think about developments. How do i blame we youths. You teach me theories about science when Ipads, jets cars and whatnots are being made , my mind won't be there mostdef. We are stuck, lost and confuse. Thats who colonization made us...lol

.

Indeed, colonialism has its merit and demerits. One problem is that we don't know what africa would be without colonialism. Does colonialism stop africa from developing itself, China and japan are big economies, they have evovled to become world powers despite being colonised. Should we keep blaming colonialist for the corruptiön,bad leadership/followership,mismanagement of human/natural resources that has plagued the continent post colonialist era. What are we going to achieve by continualy blame the colonialist for our ineptitude,greed,intolerance,power mongering,religious fanaticism e.t.c

Femmymata2: Indeed, colonialism has its merit and demerits. One problem is that we don't know what africa would be without colonialism. Does colonialism stop africa from developing itself, China and japan are big economies, they have evovled to become world powers despite being colonised. Should we keep blaming colonialist for the corruptiön,bad leadership/followership,mismanagement of human/natural resources that has plagued the continent post colonialist era. What are we going to achieve by continualy blame the colonialist for our ineptitude,greed,intolerance,power mongering,religious fanaticism e.t.c

Do you mean to say that japan was or was not colonized?

ayobase:
U just celebrated it shymexx.....its all about a coin.....never one sided!
.
Colonialism has/had its merits and demerits....and I can say that the merits have over-shadowed the demerits!
.
Its not to be celebrated, but still being celebrated....it brought about the global village!
Imagine the internet with languages/dialects!
.
Even CCTV does broadcast in English!

The demerits definitely overshadowed/overshadows the merits...

We're messed up because of colonialism - and they never left anyway, they're still colonising us indirectly....

Hence, why Brussels still controls decision making on the continent....

Anyway, we had contacts with Europeans, Native Americans, and Asians before colonialism - how did they communicate back then? - FYI Ghana's Kente is a product of interaction between Akans and Chinese dating back to like 100AD... And Mansa Musa of Mali also traded with all races of people back then...

Logicboy03:

Do you mean to say that japan was or was not colonized?

My apologies. Japan was occupied by the U.S after the world war 2, japan had to start from the political and economic downturn they witnessed at that period.

Ethiopia and Liberia did not experience the "evil" of colonialism, yet they are hardly shining examples of how developed and prosperous Africa might have been without colonialism.

Indeed, is it a mere coincidence that the wealthiest and most developed African country (South Africa) - gained independence from white minority rule as recently as 1994? If it is beyond coincidence, is it therefore not plausible to argue that Nigeria (with her plentiful oil resource) would be far more developed and prosperous than South Africa, had the British been 'stubborn' enough to stay until the mid 1990s?

In any case, assuming (but not conceding) that colonialism did more harm than good for Africa, should the same not be said about Asia and the Americas? If so, why has Africa refused to move on like the rest of the colonised world have done? The case of the United States is trite, so no need to talk about that. What about Brazil, Malaysia, Singapore, South Korea, India, etc.? These countries were colonised - just like most countries in Africa. However, they have shrugged off the "negative" effects of colonialism, started from scratch, and proceeded to attain levels of progress, development and prosperity comparable to their erstwhile colonial masters'. Unfortunately, rather than emulate these shining paradigms, Black Africans have continuously preferred to whine about how great Africa would have been without colonialism, and how colonialism made development impossible to achieve! More ridiculously, these ideas are based on 'evidence' in obscure books - books that are little more than wild postulations and personal opinions/fabrications of the authors. Some prefer to swallow defensive and defeatist rationalisations spewed by pseudo-intellectuals such as Walter Rodney.

At the end of the day, we live with the stark reality of Africa's shameful cluelessness and underdevelopment that we cannot deny, let alone rationalise. Clutching at straws and citing nebulous historical accounts or "books" as evidence of how colonialism is responsible for our woes is hardly a mark of intelligence. Perhaps it would be more intelligent to find practical ways of overcoming such woes (supposedly inflicted by colonialism) as other colonised countries in Asia and the Americas have done.

@OP
Nice post. I nearly got carried away by the being able to interact in English with Indian argument until I read the rest of the post. I then realized that argument is lazy.
How do English people interact with their neigbouring Dutch?. How do they interact with the Germans?. How do they interact with the French?.
BRITISH MAN DID NOT BRING ANYTHING GOOD TO AFRICA.

English & French language is a disaster to Africa!. This is the real reason we cannot develope scientifically and therefore economically. Yes, and economically. Let me tell you why.
Science subjects namely; PHYSICS, CHEMISTRY, BIOLOGY e.t.c. Are all natural. You don't need to speak English to be a scientist. You don't need to speak English or French to build cars and aeroplanes. All you need do is understand sciencies. You could be Albert Eisten in any languge. African schools should start teaching science subjects in our mother's tongue. That's the only way science subjects would be learnt naturally for our own good. I don't need to talk much, just look at Russia, Japan, China, Germany e.t.c. They do not need to speak English to go to the moon!. These societies have their own language and study sciences in their own terms. For example; they know what TRIOXONITRIC ACID is called in their own language. Who can tell me what TRIOXONITRIC ACID is called in any African language??. Even African professors of Chemistry don't know what it's called in their language. Yet, it's a naturally occuring substance.

Get my point?. That's why the above countries understand sciencies and how to make the products we buy. A country cannot develope without technology and industries and you cannot best understand sciences in foreign language. That's the only reason the west are doing better than Africa.

Let me give you one live example which is happening today.

The hotest place in the world are all countries located in the tropics I mean Sahara desert here in Africa. These countries if they learnt sciences naturally on their own would have lead technological advancement in the solar industry because they get the most sun light. But what happens today?. These countries have to wait for the above countries in temperate (cold) region to manufacture solar panels for them. What a shame!.
English & French is the reason Africa is backward.

Lmao at Liberia and Ethiopia not experiencing the evil of colonialism... Have you read about the Americo-Liberians and how they were used to "colonise" the indigenous people there?? And what the Italians did to the Ethiopians??

It's not surprising that most of the Africans with the low self-esteem are the ones in Africa...

I bet you clowns still think the white man is God...

In case you don't know - your low self-esteem and thought process are also products of colonialism, hence why you hate yourself and everything African.... Massa is coming back!

uncletbuddy:

Are you ã Nigerian? Seriously your statement dey shame me. Don't the whites do rituals(even in 9ja d whites do crazy rituals before they embark on any job in the sea like oil job)? They they walk almost naked(with pant and bra)? Or will you say they don't have occult there(Illuminati/free manson/sorcerers/and many more)? Or ... Abegi don't say what you know not.

whn I mentioned occultism and rituals, m sure u vry well knw wht I mean.. It is no secret that whtever form of occultism practised in d west is for the furtherance of civilisation unlike d black man's application of occultism which is mostly for evils

Joshalpha: whn I mentioned occultism and rituals, m sure u vry well knw wht I mean.. It is no secret that whtever form of occultism practised in d west is for the furtherance of civilisation unlike d black man's application of occultism which is mostly for evils

Occultism practiced by the West is for furtherance of civilization? Better put a collar around your neck because you are a slave.


Explain how the Manson murders were advancing society

pro01: Ethiopia and Liberia did not experience the "evil" of colonialism, yet they are hardly shining examples of how developed and prosperous Africa might have been without colonialism.

Indeed, is it a mere coincidence that the wealthiest and most developed African country (South Africa) - gained independence from white minority rule as recently as 1994? If it is beyond coincidence, is it therefore not plausible to argue that Nigeria (with her plentiful oil resource) would be far more developed and prosperous than South Africa, had the British been 'stubborn' enough to stay until the mid 1990s?

In any case, assuming (but not conceding) that colonialism did more harm than good for Africa, should the same not be said about Asia and the Americas? If so, why has Africa refused to move on like the rest of the colonised world have done? The case of the United States is trite, so no need to talk about that. What about Brazil, Malaysia, Singapore, South Korea, India, etc.? These countries were colonised - just like most countries in Africa. However, they have shrugged off the "negative" effects of colonialism, started from scratch, and proceeded to attain levels of progress, development and prosperity comparable to their erstwhile colonial masters'. Unfortunately, rather than emulate these shining paradigms, Black Africans have continuously preferred to whine about how great Africa would have been without colonialism, and how colonialism made development impossible to achieve! More ridiculously, these ideas are based on 'evidence' in obscure books - books that are little more than wild postulations and personal opinions/fabrications of the authors. Some prefer to swallow defensive and defeatist rationalisations spewed by pseudo-intellectuals such as Walter Rodney.

At the end of the day, we live with the stark reality of Africa's shameful cluelessness and underdevelopment that we cannot deny, let alone rationalise. Clutching at straws and citing nebulous historical accounts or "books" as evidence of how colonialism is responsible for our woes is hardly a mark of intelligence. Perhaps it would be more intelligent to find practical ways of overcoming such woes (supposedly inflicted by colonialism) as other colonised countries in Asia and the Americas have done.

I for you. You obviously don't know much about Africa. Google Abyssinia and see what Ethiopia was before the invasion by the Italians or better still visit Ethiopia and see the magnificent ancient structures there. From Ethiopia to Ogaden to Zanzibar to Lamu, you'll see amazing architectural designs some of which were exported to Europe.

Coming closer to home; The Oyo and Benin empires were great empires with political structures to rival that of Europe. The English were amazed to see the sophistication of these empires when they landed on our shores.They used technology to solve their day to day problems examples of which are still abound today, they had a currency and consequently an economy. They practiced capitalism even before the white men decided to christen and corrupt it. They had Military formations from Generals to recruits and even Barracks (Ibadan for instance was a military outpost). They were very advanced in medicine(no evidence of any plague whatsoever). They were trading with the outside world hence the osmosis and diffusion of knowledge from Sumeria, Babylon, Greece, China and Arabia would have gotten here in the long run. The Europeans got access to this knowledge first and took advantage of it before it could be assimilated into our cultures.

The Asians and Americans may have moved on but its gonna be hard for Africa. We were colonized last hence the Europeans corrected their mistakes of the past in other places such as India where they allowed the people retain their cultural identity, the colonization of Africa is not only physical but mental. Countries like Cameroon and Gabon are more like French vassal states, Mozambique and Angola still belong to the Portuguese empire.

Africa caanot move on yet until we finally let go of the shackles of colonialism like Brazil, India and other prosperous developing countries have done.

pretty_boi:
Mr man, go & get a book & educate yourself would you? Who told you Europeans brought civilization to Africa? Prior to the invasion (colonialism) of Africa by Europeans, Africa was doing SUPER-GREAT. We were mainly empires. The Kingdom of Mali, The Borno empire, The Oyo empire, the Sokoto caliphate etc. From what I've read, the Borno empire was a really strong Kingdom (militarily, politically & economically) that had strong influences at least across West Africa. Have you ever heard that "AFRICA IS THE HOME OF CIVILIZATION?" You had better believed that. Forget all those European lies about Africans being naked when they came. BIG LIES.
Before the Europeans came, We had ships, we had gold, we had infrastructure etc. All these we built by ourselves (without knowing that some other races existed). We built Egypt, Ancient Pharaohs & Egyptians (& indeed all North Africans) were all black Africans until a war with the neighbouring Arabs to the east that led to a defeat & thereby causing these Arabs to take over our lands & it's marvels. Prisoners of wars probably were taken as slaves by the Arabs & they continued to infiltrate North Africa for all the goodies & natives had to keep migrating southward for fear of abduction for slavery.
It was probably this vulnerability that the Europeans (who were already trading with us) capitalized on & started to steal our resources, invade our territories, enslave & colonize us. Don't let anybody deceive you, these people used to look up to us. These people used to come to admire and marvel at our civilization. Many Africans & blacks are ignorant of their history & these people would ensure to the best of their abilities that it stays that way cos they fear that if we know our true history, we would fight for it & dominate the world again & they don't want that. Why do you think they threat blacks harshly all over the world? The truth is that they sub-consciously feel a complex (for those of them that know this history) & they in turn want to play psychological games by making Blacks feel inferior or worthless. Why do you think the western media hardly has anything good to say about Africa? They keep showing the world that African children die of hunger, malaria, kwashioko, aids etc.... Be honest with yourself, me & you live in Africa. How many times have you seen those things in real life? (even though they exist.) The plan is to subconsciously make everyone feel sorry for Africans thereby making Ignorant Africans "look up" to them & if you don't follow their dictates, they make you feel like you're unappreciative of their help to have delivered you from a "sub-human" life & they start treating you like trash again. Bob Marley said "If you know your history, you would know where you're coming from." Go listen to BUFFALO SOLDIER by Bob Marley & you'd learn a bit more about what I've just written here. Also go read about ancient Africa & know your history. Cheers.
God Bless Nigeria. Amen.

God bless you.

gidiMonsta:

I for you. You obviously don't know much about Africa. Google Abyssinia and see what Ethiopia was before the invasion by the Italians or better still visit Ethiopia and see the magnificent ancient structures there. From Ethiopia to Ogaden to Zanzibar to Lamu, you'll see amazing architectural designs some of which were exported to Europe.

Coming closer to home; The Oyo and Benin empires were great empires with political structures to rival that of Europe. The English were amazed to see the sophistication of these empires when they landed on our shores.They used technology to solve their day to day problems examples of which are still abound today, they had a currency and consequently an economy. They practiced capitalism even before the white men decided to christen and corrupt it. They had Military formations from Generals to recruits and even Barracks (Ibadan for instance was a military outpost). They were very advanced in medicine(no evidence of any plague whatsoever). They were trading with the outside world hence the osmosis and diffusion of knowledge from Sumeria, Babylon, Greece, China and Arabia would have gotten here in the long run. The Europeans got access to this knowledge first and took advantage of it before it could be assimilated into our cultures.

The Asians and Americans may have moved on but its gonna be hard for Africa. We were colonized last hence the Europeans corrected their mistakes of the past in other places such as India where they allowed the people retain their cultural identity, the colonization of Africa is not only physical but mental. Countries like Cameroon and Gabon are more like French vassal states, Mozambique and Angola still belong to the Portuguese empire.

Africa caanot move on yet until we finally let go of the shackles of colonialism like Brazil, India and other prosperous developing countries have done.

Thanks for the post. How did the likes of brazil and india break the shackles of colonialism

At the end of the day, we live with the stark reality of Africa's shameful cluelessness and underdevelopment that we cannot deny, let alone rationalise. Clutching at straws and citing nebulous historical accounts or "books" as evidence of how colonialism is responsible for our woes is hardly a mark of intelligence. Perhaps it would be more intelligent to find practical ways of overcoming such woes (supposedly inflicted by colonialism) as other colonised countries in Asia and the Americas have done.

This actually summarises my view on this matter. But a good discourse on our history is still important because a people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots.

nnenna.1:
You see, you did not even get the gist of my post.

If Africans had the power to create media houses that enabled the masses (in the continent and out of it) to know its history by default, you would not need to defend its integrity every time by asking other posters to look up little known African history books on the net because they have no "knowledge." The fact that you do shows that we have zero talent in PR skills.

That the masses of youth have "no knowledge" is a testament to this. Don't shoot the messenger.

(By the way, "media" means much more than television channels)

You make a very good point. But research into African history is still ongoing. You can't put out documentaries, videos, etc. before you really understand all the facts. And besides that, most people would probably agree that there are some more immediate developmental problems that Africa faces that are drawing the attention of people away from historical issues and more toward current issues.

@ shymmexx, I don't think the article you posted actually supports the idea in the title of the thread and the title that the BBC has used to label the article. He is just admitting that communication is much easier between a random African and a random Indian because of the spread of the English language and that business opportunities are greater for countries where many people have proficiency in English. I'm not sure the author (Joel Kibazo), who says in the article "there is little that I admire about the colonial era" actually chose that title.

gidiMonsta:

[size=18pt]Do you know about the dark ages in Europe? Where people were burnt alive for having measles, where very beautiful women were labelled witches and were burnt at the stake? Where the Church forbade anything science and beheaded scientists?[/size]

Europe outgrew this phase not by colonialism but by the influx of knowledge from Egypt, the Arab world and China! Fibonacci learnt mathematics in Tunisia!! Colonialism did not help us, it destroyed us. We would have overcome the negatives in due course, colonialism truncated our development and entrenched an alien concept that is unsustainable for us.

HIGH FIVE MAN!!

That was beautiful!!

shymexx: Lmao at Liberia and Ethiopia not experiencing the evil of colonialism... Have you read about the Americo-Liberians and how they were used to "colonise" the indigenous people there?? And what the Italians did to the Ethiopians??

It's not surprising that most of the Africans with the low self-esteem are the ones in Africa...

I bet you clowns still think the white man is God...

In case you don't know - your low self-esteem and thought process are also products of colonialism, hence why you hate yourself and everything African.... Massa is coming back!

This is kind of off topic:

Well it is true though that prior to and during European invasion into the interior of West Africa that Liberia was one of the few on a large scale left untouched. Yeah there were a few slave raids here and there but it was still untouched for the most part.

The Americo Liberians, being a pack of uncle Toms, treated the natives who were kind enough to give them land in the first place, as if they were savages. They refused to let any native Liberian join the republic unless they were literate in English and vowed to renounced their pagan ways. The Americo-Liberians were so desperate, they appealed to Jamaicans, Bajans and other Islanders to join them so that they could "import more civilized blacks" into their new country rather than accept those native to the land. SMFH

They took over the entire country of Liberia, therefore including all of the 16 indigenous tribes, only because whites threatened to take whatever land they did not claim and these negros knew that meant they would probably be enslaves again .

So in the case of Liberia it was the liberated blacks from the west who degraded and oppressed the people while introducing Western ways and not so much whites who didn't even take the country seriously. Not even James Monroe, who the capital is named after.

So some black people ain't sh** either.
But I get your point. Because it's what happened later on and the CIA's involvement with sabotaging Marcus Garvey's mission to improve Liberia and the 14 years of civil war that followed the era of the infamous President Doe, that really destroyed that country even more.

@pro01
Your argument have ironically proved against the point you intended to make and rather proved the ponit that Africa's backwardness was caused by the west. How?.
You cited South Africa's development as model of what the rest of Africa should have been if British rule continued in Africa. Well, let me tell you why South Africa is that way.
After the rest of Africa had their independence the whites never believed whiteman rule will end in South Africa. So they carved out a niche for themselves in that country and stoped looting South Africa's resources to Europe. Instead they sincerely started developing South Africa for good not knowing apatheid would come to an end.
This is not what happended in the rest of Africa. British stay in other parts of Africa was all about looting the countries dry while developing Europe. That's why other parts did't get as much development as South Africa.

Let us also differenciate colonialism and slavery. Slavery I believe is what dealt the real big blow to Africa. And I will like you to know America, Korea, India and all the other countries you cited never tasted slavery like Africa!. Slavery caused Africa miss important era in human developtment; the renissance era, industrial revolution, e.t.c. We missed on science because our language was banned. You can't perfect in sciences in a language that's not your mother's tongue. You can but only to an extent. Therefore, we could not catch up with the rest of the world technologically till date.

ikwerre guy: my fellow nigerians...i left nigeria at the age of 2years and came to germany with my parents...i have been twice in nigeria trough out my life...let me tell u ppl somthing...white ppl hate anybody with black skin...they HATE US more than every other thing...i know it i can tell...but when i come to nigeria i see how my ppl admire them...and praise them...almost worshiping those oyibo...yes it is true whites have established a rich civilization...but it was built on african blood...so please colonialisim was the biggest crime in history

Those who have ears let them hear. You are tolerated but never accepted. My blood began to boil on reading the headline.."Thank goodness for colonialism" For those who think it was a good thing I recommend you read the book "How Europe underdeveloped Africa" by Walter Rodney. Until then...think hard about this...." You enter my land....quite illegal...you enter my land.....dig out my gold and my diamonds....you enter my land...build sheer prisons for Black people...." Apartheid..Peter Tosh (original member of Bob Marley and the Wailers)

pro01: In any case, assuming (but not conceding) that colonialism did more harm than good for Africa, should the same not be said about Asia and the Americas? If so, why has Africa refused to move on like the rest of the colonised world have done? The case of the United States is trite, so no need to talk about that. What about Brazil, Malaysia, Singapore, South Korea, India, etc.? These countries were colonised - just like most countries in Africa. However, they have shrugged off the "negative" effects of colonialism, started from scratch, and proceeded to attain levels of progress, development and prosperity comparable to their erstwhile colonial masters'. Unfortunately, rather than emulate these shining paradigms, Black Africans have continuously preferred to whine about how great Africa would have been without colonialism, and how colonialism made development impossible to achieve! More ridiculously, these ideas are based on 'evidence' in obscure books - books that are little more than wild postulations and personal opinions/fabrications of the authors. Some prefer to swallow defensive and defeatist rationalisations spewed by pseudo-intellectuals such as Walter Rodney.

Well, colonization was actually devastating to the Americas and I don't think they ever recovered from it. Even apart from the issue of the genocides and the cultural devastation, which is a whole other topic of discussion itself, the descendants of the indigenous peoples of America, especially in central and southern America (Brazil included) but also in North America, suffered through oppression and discrimination over centuries and today many in south America (and even many in North America) live poor or impoverished lives and are certainly poorer on average than those people in the Americas that are descended mostly or almost entirely from European settlers, colonizers, and immigrants. On Asia, the question of whether the parts of Asia that were colonized are not worse off than the parts that were not colonized is also a legitimate question. We don't know what they could have done and achieved without foreign exploitation. I agree that Africans need to move forward, develop and face our problems head on as some Asian and Latin American countries have done instead of dwelling too much on our past and on colonization, but the question of "what if this or that hadn't happened in Africa's history" will always be there.

Many parts of Africa may not have been full of complex urban societies with cities and most of Africa was politically and ethnically fragmented, but in some of those areas where large urban centers were not developing, there were also not very large populations. So it's not as if all of Africa (population wise) was just one way - either all in small and very basic villages with simpler technology, art or architecture or all in large, complex cities. The picture is not so black and white and is more grey than that. Also, that kind of non-urban lifestyle is not so bad or contemptible just because it doesn't meet the criteria for civilization. It is really modern conventions and views about being civilized or uncivilized that make people think that groups around the world who did not develop such urban centers or lived a simpler lifestyle are inherently inferior or less capable of modern development in some way than those that did. But really if you look at history, every group of people lived like that at some point and anyway it is basically the natural lifestyle of man.

Concerning "evidence" about how great Africa could have been if not for colonization, except for the most extreme theories and claims from a few unprincipled or dishonest writers, the idea of Africa as having some degree of significant development in several places prior to colonization is definitely not merely "wild postulation" or someone's "personal opinions/fabrications." As just one example, the original capital of the kingdom of Kongo, Mbanza Kongo, was said in a letter written by the ambassador of Milan to Portugal in 1491 to be as big as the city of Évora (in Portugal), and to have impressive houses, and there is later evidence from other observers that the kingdom was essentially large and organized. Evora was one of the largest cities in Portugal at that time. It is only the twenty-first largest today, but at that time it really was one of the most prominent cities of Portugal. There is a 1501 Portuguese drawing of the city of Evora here if you want to get some idea of what that city was like back then for comparison. In other words, when Europeans met the people of the kingdom of Kongo, they found an already great capital city in the heart of the kingdom. Similar things were written about some other African kingdoms that Europeans and Arabs and North Africans visited at various times, and there are other places further in the interior of which such specific things were not written but which we know were significant centralized centers of development from archaeology and other sources of evidence. In southern Africa, Mapungubwe, Zimbabwe, Mutapa, Butua, and Thulamela were all important centers of centralized development yet the fact that there were ancient kingdoms there with people who were capable of creating impressive art or physical structures would probably be obscure to most people. Some Africans on the continent and Africans abroad might know about some of the famous art from parts of West Africa that is undeniable evidence of centralized development and complexity (and it is not only the places that had such art that were organized and developing in some way or another), but they may not know that such places were found all across black Africa - southern, central, western, and eastern Africa. When it eventually dawns on one that these different societies separated by culture, environment and by huge distances had developed cities and different civilizations, and that civilizations rose and fell or prospered at various points in Africa's history rather than the continent just being one big land of "darkness" and "ignorance" south of the Sahara desert, the natural reaction is to question whether colonization was really necessary. Of course colonization had its negatives and some positives, but if the ultimate goal is to be civilized and Africans were capable of creating civilizations themselves, was it really necessary? I don't think so.

nnenna.1:


uhhh....in what way, exactly?

Prove that the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. Ok go!

Weighing the above posts will do!