Dee60:

Was he kneeling before Adeboye or before God? In the Christian faith, kneeling when you pray is a form of submission to God.

AjanleKoko:

I always find it ironic that people who profess atheism always label anyone who does not subscribe to their views as 'ignorant'.
I'm not going to bother to respond in kind, not to worry.

Logicboy03:



Lol.....not surprised. You were debunked and it butthurted you.


I hope my harsh lesson in reality helps you.

AjanleKoko:

Are you well?

Logicboy03:



Abeg, stick to literature. You are a great writer but very bad theologist.


Atheism is not a belief

Religion is a problem on its own

senbonzakura_kageyoshi:

Bro, you really can't tell me what to stick to.

Atheism - belief in the absence of a superior being i.e God.
How is it not a belief again when the very definition states that it is? Or would rather I called it denial of the presence of a supreme being?

senbonzakura_kageyoshi:

Bro, you really can't tell me what to stick to.

Atheism - belief in the absence of a superior being i.e God.
How is it not a belief again when the very definition states that it is? Or would rather I called it denial of the presence of a supreme being?

Logicboy03:

You are an ignorant person. Sorry.


Religion is the cause of many problems in ALL the countries you mentioned. How can you even mention those countries? Are those countries one should be even looking up to?
...

Wallie:

Wrong. Religion is not the problem but people's hypocrisy and ignorance.

If people of Abrahamic faith followed the teachings of their doctrines as professed to them, Nigeria will be a better place. No Abrahamic religion tells anyone to be unjust and all do profess some kind of punishment or karma for sins in this life or hereafter.

However, it is the lack of legal repercussion and the belief that sins can be forgiven if certain acts are performed that makes people choose to sin. But religion does need forgiveness of sins, otherwise, how can you turn a truly repentant thief that already paid his debt to society and now looking for a new direction into the righteous path? If people are forever condemned due to acts performed in the past, what motive will they have to change their ways?

The ignorance aspect includes poverty. People just lose all sense of objectivity and rationalization when it comes to religion and it is usually because they’re poor or in need of something.

The bottom line is that if legal laws are enforced, most of the hypocrisy that’s associated with religion in Nigeria will disappear because the punishment for one’s illegal actions, which includes most sins, will be immediate.

The other aspect included in hypocrisy, morality, should be the only thing religion has to deal with.

Right now, we expect our pastors and imams to condemn looters and robbers; where the hell are the law enforcers? Or did we give our religious leaders some type of power to investigate crimes?

senbonzakura_kageyoshi: Look, religion is like the law. Look at all the laws we have in this country. So many of them are actually good, but between the people who break the law and the people whose responsibility it is to uphold the law we have two sides that have a law but refuse to respect it. So the law isn't the problem, but the defenders and those it is binding on.

A lot of religions do teach good things, just that the people who are looked up to for religious guidance deliberately misinform their followers for their own personal gain. Look at it this way; if religion were the problem, how come we have christians who would take the shirts off their backs and give it to a homeless man out on the street? And at the same time, another christian would take same shirt away from same homeless man. Aren't they both christians? If religion was the basis for behaviour or actions, then they should both do the same thing, right?

Again, the people are the problem, not the religions. Those that put the blame on religion are either ignorant or in denial. Even if your religion did preach that embezzling money is good, would it come and force you to embezzle? If you know the right thing, then do it, religion or no. Religion has never forced anybody to do anything. People force other people to do stuff and that's the simple truth.

senbonzakura_kageyoshi: Look, religion is like the law. Look at all the laws we have in this country. So many of them are actually good, but between the people who break the law and the people whose responsibility it is to uphold the law we have two sides that have a law but refuse to respect it. So the law isn't the problem, but the defenders and those it is binding on.

A lot of religions do teach good things, just that the people who are looked up to for religious guidance deliberately misinform their followers for their own personal gain. Look at it this way; if religion were the problem, how come we have christians who would take the shirts off their backs and give it to a homeless man out on the street? And at the same time, another christian would take same shirt away from same homeless man. Aren't they both christians? If religion was the basis for behaviour or actions, then they should both do the same thing, right?

Again, the people are the problem, not the religions. Those that put the blame on religion are either ignorant or in denial. Even if your religion did preach that embezzling money is good, would it come and force you to embezzle? If you know the right thing, then do it, religion or no. Religion has never forced anybody to do anything. People force other people to do stuff and that's the simple truth.

Wallie:

Reason why I said the legal enforcement of the laws is the real issue. Pastors and Imams will try to save every soul, and rightfully so.

But it is the main purview of law enforcement officers to punish those who break the law. If every looter, robber, embezzler, 419er, kidnapper, molester and killer is in jail or serve jail time as stipulated for the offense they committed, Nigeria will be a better place and crimes will reduce. Period.

However, after seriving jail time, the pastors and imams can then continue to try to save the person's soul.

Dee60:

Was he kneeling before Adeboye or before God? In the Christian faith, kneeling when you pray is a form of submission to God.

Logicboy03:




Lolz


Religions teach bad things as well


The bible


Leviticus 25:44
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

1 Peter 2:18
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."

Titus 2:9
"Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them"





The Quran


Surah 4;34 (wife beating)
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

Again, the people are the problem, not the religions. Those that put the blame on religion are either ignorant or in denial. Even if your religion did preach that embezzling money is good, would it come and force you to embezzle? If you know the right thing, then do it, religion or no. Religion has never forced anybody to do anything. People force other people to do stuff and that's the simple truth.

Logicboy03:



I think you need to advice Sebonzakura on the separation of church and state

senbonzakura_kageyoshi:

You may have skipped this part in my previous post:

senbonzakura_kageyoshi:

Bro, you really can't tell me what to stick to.

Atheism - belief in the absence of a superior being i.e God.
How is it not a belief again when the very definition states that it is? Or would rather I called it denial of the presence of a supreme being?

senbonzakura_kageyoshi:

You may want to point out where in my posts i've indicated that I believe the church and state should be one and the same.

Logicboy03:

WRONG


1) Morality existed before religion and morality has nothing to do with religion.

2) Abrahamic religions contain myths that are detrimental to the black African
- We are not descendants of people with Jewish Names (Adam and Eve) our history predates that
- The Abrahamic religions teaches us that all God's prophets were from the middle east. Were Sub-Saharan Africans and South Americans not good for God?
-The Abrahamic faith makes us to accept Jewish and Arab traditions over our own.


3) Abrahamic Religion destroys the notion of morality. I help the poor because it is good and not because Yaweh or Allah says so.

4) Religion gives answers that no one can question. Science answers questions.
-What gives the Quran the right to tell me who I can and cant marry? That I cant marry my muslim gf?
-What gives the Bible the right to condemn homosexuality?
-Where is the evidence that God created the world or the big bang?


5) The most peaceful countries in the world are mostly secular countries where atheism is on the rise. Religion and peace have a negative coprrelation using the peace index

Japan, Iceland, Denmark etc.

Dee60:

Was he kneeling before Adeboye or before God? In the Christian faith, kneeling when you pray is a form of submission to God.

Wallie:

1. Sure it does for believers of Abrahamic faith. Their religion stipulates that certain things are immoral and that’s their belief not yours. You are free to believe whatever you want; it is a free world after all.

2. Ok. Why’s that your headache if you don’t believe in the religion?

3. Good for you but it is none of my business why you do what you do.

4. Well, no one will question your belief in the Quran or Bible and it should be no one’s business. That’s your prerogative and headache BUT you not following the law as laid out in statutes will land your behind in jail.

5. Your interpretation of world events.

It seems you’re trying to draw me into a discussion about atheism and I’m not really interested. I’m way too evolved and certain of my own belief that I don’t need your approval or disapproval. My belief is my belief and yours is yours.

I'm more interested in why people choose to ignore their religious teachings, whatever it may be, if they're truly religious; hence, my focus on hypocrisy.

Logicboy03:
Your last sentence makes the wrong assumption that religious teachings are good. The bible has been used to justify all kinds of evil. An evil christian is not a hypocrite. A slave trading christian is not a hypocrite. A misogynist christian is not a hypocrite.

As for your other points, I am not the one attacking religion, rather religion is attacking me and i am counter attacking. Religion holds a privilege it should not have in the society. eligion shuld not be govt funded and blasphemy laws should never exist. No relgion or human has the right to be offended. Human rights do not apply to religion unless it is libel or hate speech and it is towards humans.

If I say that Allah or Yaweh are fools, itshould cary the same consequence as saying the tooth fairy is a fool

Wallie:

As far as I'm concerned, you can say whatever you want unless it is against the law. The problem you will run into, by being in the minority, is that the laws were created by people with religious leanings. The day you become a majority and can influence the laws as crafted, then maybe the traditional religions won’t have as much influence as they currently do. For example, people in a few states in the US legalized homosexuality and smoking marijuana, and that only happened because they had the numbers to change the laws.

There’s no doubt that religion has been used in the past and currently to justify all kinds of inhumane actions. The truth is that politics influences religion and religion serves as another “thing” that can be used to separate “us” from “them”. Pastors use it and so do imams.

It is not until we evolve as human beings and truly understand the basic notions of wrong or right that we can free ourselves of rogue pastors and imams. And this is one of the ignorant aspects of how we practice religion.

Logicboy03:
This I can agree with

Wallie:

To bring my argument full circle, religion is not the problem but people's failure to adhere to its teachings.

senbonzakura_kageyoshi: Another reason i point out that we the people are the problem in Nigeria and not our religions is that Pastors/Imams/Other religious leaders are not the only people we believe. We also believe politicians, in spite of the fact that we know they are corrupt. Politicians continually blind us, blind side us and play us against each other and we believe them instead of doing our homework and asking the right questions. Wasn't it this time last year that the legislature was spending weeks going on and on about gay people and Nigerians were hailing them. Right here on Nairaland, i asked everyone to forget he Gay issue and focus on the real problem, the imminent subsidy removal. Yet we continued to bask in a law that we really don't need right now while they sneaked in the subsidy removal. We only realized what's up when we started buying fuel at over N110 per litre. Gullibility is one of our biggest problems aside a clear lack of morality.

Logicboy03:

Welcome to the suffering of the unbeliever. I have been arguing here for almost a year now. The nonsense I have seen could send some rational people to the hospital.

The mental gymnastics done just to shield religion from the scrutiny of logical inquiry is quite appalling from religious peeps here.

Uyi Iredia:

What mental gymnastics. You mean the kind that jumps the question of the universe's origin or the gymnastics that is used to support the evolutionary theory.