@seguno2
Hello,I thank God for the replies of people like liftedone and detruth.I think you should take sometime to earnestly read through their posts instead going in cycles.The scriptures(DEut,Malachi,Matt etc) that you quoted and might still have in mind to quote have being explained earlier.Take some time and patience to read through and be open.Theres no need for open animosity against the law like its some form of sin.Remember Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
and ,the bible does not say tithing was a covenant between God and levi.Tithing was before levi or the levites.
Paul the apostle is quite clear on the fact that it takes grace to make any form of giving to God(2corinth8).ask God for His grace,I believe wen the grace is there,there'll be obedience and no need for strivings about the law

Image123:

@seguno2
Hello,I thank God for the replies of people like liftedone and detruth.I think you should take sometime to earnestly read through their posts instead going in cycles.The scriptures(DEut,Malachi,Matt etc) that you quoted and might still have in mind to quote have being explained earlier.Take some time and patience to read through and be open.Theres no need for open animosity against the law like its some form of sin.Remember Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
and ,the bible does not say tithing was a covenant between God and levi.Tithing was before levi or the levites.
Paul the apostle is quite clear on the fact that it takes grace to make any form of giving to God(2corinth8).ask God for His grace,I believe when the grace is there,there'll be obedience and no need for strivings about the law

The bible says titihing is a covenant between God and the descedants of Levi read Malachi 2 : 1-8, also tithing was never before the levites the fact that Abraham gave ten percent of his spoils of war to the high priest does not make it that tithing was before the levites, this is a very mischievious and manipulative example becos what Abraham deed was a one off transaction which he deed as a sort of thanks giving for his victory at war. It as no semblance with tithes. On Paul's statement i agree entirely with that but also not that Paul was not talking about tithes he was talking about Christian giving which should be freely done according to how God as blessed you.

@liftedone
Thanx for your post and your objectivity, as far as giving to the church is concerned, i believe in giving generously if possible more than tenpercent if you are able if it is to support God's work. My problem is the way tithes as been interpreted in mordern churches which as no similarity with the biblical tithes. read deut 14: 22-28. Apart from that the book of hebrews says that the levitical law of tithing is not relevant to christians as Jesus christ is not a levite (hebrews 7 : 11-13) That means as christians we are not required to tithe. on the basis of this passage i actully think pastors that are making tithes compulsory for their congregation are actully being fruadulent becos tithes is not required of us as christians. What is required is cheerful free will giving. I don't have a problem about you or anyone paying tithes, but people should know the biblical truth about it and not the false doctrine that is popularly preached as tithes.

KunleOshob:

@liftedone
Thanx for your post and your objectivity, as far as giving to the church is concerned, i believe in giving generously if possible more than tenpercent if you are able if it is to support God's work. My problem is the way tithes as been interpreted in mordern churches which as no similarity with the biblical tithes. read deut 14: 22-28. Apart from that the book of hebrews says that the levitical law of tithing is not relevant to christians as Jesus christ is not a levite (hebrews 7 : 11-13) That means as christians we are not required to tithe. on the basis of this passage i actully think pastors that are making tithes compulsory for their congregation are actully being fruadulent because tithes is not required of us as christians. What is required is cheerful free will giving. I don't have a problem about you or anyone paying tithes, but people should know the biblical truth about it and not the false doctrine that is popularly preached as tithes.

Thanks bro. I still believe in HIS word that says on John 8:32 "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
I do a lot of free will giving which most times surpass d said 10% for tithing. I believe this is exactly what God really wants from us (obedient with our material resources) not as some ppl will grudgingly be paying their tithe all bcus sum1 told them to.

Rom 2:28-29
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.(KJV)

Is it the "Jews" in present day Israel or another? Note here that Paul was writting to the Romans!
If you are not a "Jew" (wherein we find the "Levites" as tribe), then you are not qualified for the blessings of the God of Israel.
This is one of the fundamental truth why we are linked to Jesus and are called Christians
or did Jesus came to the world in the nature of your "Yourba" tribe?
To conclude that tithe is only meant for the biblical Levite is like saying God only send Jesus to the biblical Israel
Your problem is that you took Bible like your History/Geography textbook and begin to interpreate it in the knowlegde of the flesh.
,
[size=13pt]
It seems the theological bank of KunleOshob and seguno2 has run dry since they are still searching answers to
(or trying to avoid) the question I posted to them
Please let everyone stick to his/her belief and let them stop thinking they understand the meaning of "truth"
I will like to advise likes of Image123, liftedone and others not to engage any futher blind arguement concerning this thread.
The seed has being sown already. Let those who have ears hear! Life is by choice!(Deut. 30:19)
But never let anyone force dirts down our throat again! We also understand the scriptures![/size]

detruth,

what question did you pose that has not been answered? If you mean it has not been answered the way you want it, then that is something else altogether. Please clarify.

@ all,

1. Did Jesus preach about and/or collect tithes?
2. Did the Apostles preach about/collect tithes?
3. Did Paul, very learned in Jewish laws, preachabout and/or collect tithes?

The strategy of putting Christians in a tithes guilt trap is not only baseless but also very dangerous to those who are misleading and conning others to pay and sometimes steal to pay as well as those who are too lazy to read their Bibles to gain a Holy Spirit led understanding of biblical principles themselves.
----------------------------------------------------

Jeremiah 9: 23-24

detruth:

[color=#990000]Rom 2:28-29
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.(KJV)

Is it the "Jews" in present day Israel or another? Note here that Paul was writting to the Romans!
If you are not a "Jew" (wherein we find the "Levites" as tribe), then you are not qualified for the blessings of the God of Israel.
This is one of the fundamental truth why we are linked to Jesus and are called Christians
or did Jesus came to the world in the nature of your "Yourba" tribe?
To conclude that tithe is only meant for the biblical Levite is like saying God only send Jesus to the biblical Israel
Your problem is that you took Bible like your History/Geography textbook and begin to interpreate it in the knowlegde of the .
, [/ lor]
[size=13pt]
It seems the theological bank of KunleOshob and seguno2 has run dry since they are still searching answers to
(or trying to avoid) the question I posted to them
Please let everyone stick to his/her belief [b]and let them stop thinking they understand the meaning of "truth"[/b]I will like to advise likes of Image123, liftedone and others not to engage any futher blind arguement concerning this thread.
The seed has being sown already. Let those who have ears hear! Life is by choice!(Deut. 30:19)
But never let anyone force dirts down our throat again! We also understand the scriptures![/size]

Pay your tithes which you believe you owe and be cursed with a curse when you don't.
Some of us who give cheerfully as the Lord has blessed us are under no such curses !
wouldn't wanna be ya

Romans8:1-3:

1 Hence, now there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

2 For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has freed you from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law, weakened by the flesh, was powerless to do, this God has done: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for the sake of sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

Question ---> Why should a pastor still be subscribing to a covenant involving curses?


Question ----> How come the congregation lives by faith, while the pastor lives on tithes

@kunleOshob
Malachi 2v1-8 ?a covenant of life and peace??

@detruth,

If anyone has an outstanding question to answer, it is you.
On 26 March in post #181, I wrote:

The levites entitlement then was based on their not having an inheritance (land, assets) amongst the Israelites. Is this basis still valid for most pastors? Answer that.

I am still waiting for your answer or your co-travellers who continue to lure others and/or place themselves under this un-biblical requirement.

@detruth
I seriously think you should change your pseudonym from de truth to something else because trully it is a serious contradiction. From all your posts, i can conclude that you you really don't want to hear "the truth".And you don't like "the truth about tithes", As they say the truth is bitter.

Asides you are the one who as refused to address the numerous facts about tithes which we have posted on this thread which i would not repeat again here and you are yet to establish that tithes as it is being practised today is biblical, while i have quoted several passages that proves that tithing is not required of christians.

on the issue of tithes being meant only for the the biblical levites read hebrews 7 :11-13 which said jesus christ could not collect tithes because he was not a levite how much less the impostors claiming to be levites today all in the name of conning people out of their hard earned money.

on the issue of tithes being meant only for the the biblical levites read hebrews 7 :11-13 which said Jesus christ could not collect tithes because he was not a levite how much less the impostors claiming to be levites today all in the name of conning people out of their hard earned money.

waoooooh am sure rolling on d floor now with laughssssssss

@seguno2 and KunleOshob
detruth advised us to ignore you.I think its good advice but am praying the Spirit of truth 'll not do such to you to give you up.Its being mentioned earlier that there're different forms of tithe(one tenths) but for your obvious rigmarole and closed heart,you'll have seen that.

The levites entitlement then was based on their not having an inheritance (land, assets) amongst the Israelites. Is this basis still valid for most pastors

The Bible says  Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house,thats the purpose/base of tithing to the house of God.What the Word is sayin is that the Levites didn't inherit the land from the heathen nations like their brethren did.Their inheritance was from their brethren.They had land,assets,possessions.they weren't paupers/beggars.They had a higher/more important calling and their brethren were commanded to pay them for their 'work'.enjoy
Num 35:2  Command the children of Israel, that they give unto the Levites of the inheritance of their possession cities to dwell in; and ye shall give also unto the Levites suburbs for the cities round about them.
Num 35:3  And the cities shall they have to dwell in; and the suburbs of them shall be for their cattle, and for their goods, and for all their beasts.

this guys they enjoy.

Jeremiah the prophet was a levite,he had a field.He bought it.
Jer 32:9  And I bought the field of Hanameel my uncle's son, that was in Anathoth, and weighed him the money, even seventeen shekels of silver.
Act 4:36  And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
Act 4:37  Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

read hebrews 7 :11-13 which said jesus christ could not collect tithes because he was not a levite how much less the impostors claiming to be levites today all in the name of conning people out of their hard earned money.

God,I have read that passage before and I just read it again.It still doesn't say what you're sayin.What version of Bible are you using.my Bible said
Heb 7:11  If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12  For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13  For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

well from experience with you,I expect you to mention another verse maybe in Deut or Leviticus or so next and when someone clarifies that one, you come back to Hebrews or Malachi.I pray God'll help you.

@ Image,

Would you also be kind enough to answer these questions?

anonimi:


1. Did Jesus preach about and/or collect tithes?
2. Did the Apostles preach about/collect tithes?
3. Did Paul, very learned in Jewish laws, preachabout and/or collect tithes?

Why are people just out to cause confusion? If you don't believe in tithingm my brother, make you no bother yourself, but don't try to confuse or talk people into putting a stop to it. I believe that as a Christian, the bible is my guide. And i've not seen where it is written in the bible that tithing is wrong, or should be stopped. Even Abraham paid tithe, remember? If you pay your tithe, make you comot mind for where the money dey end, leave the rest for God. He has promised to release His blessings on those who pay their tithe( malachi ), and you know say God's blessings come in different ways. If you don't believe, make you leave am for those who believe. So, it's not just the pastor telling me to pay or not to pay, but because am convinced within me that paying my tithe opens me up to God's blessings. Shikena!

krisunion:

Why are people just out to cause confusion? If you don't believe in tithingm my brother, make you no bother yourself, but don't try to confuse or talk people into putting a stop to it. I believe that as a Christian, the bible is my guide. And i've not seen where it is written in the bible that tithing is wrong, or should be stopped. Even Abraham paid tithe, remember? If you pay your tithe, make you comot mind for where the money dey end, leave the rest for God. He has promised to release His blessings on those who pay their tithe( malachi ), and you know say God's blessings come in different ways. If you don't believe, make you leave am for those who believe. So, it's not just the pastor telling me to pay or not to pay, but because am convinced within me that paying my tithe opens me up to God's blessings. Shikena!

You should also consider:

but don't try to confuse or talk people into paying it

make you leave am for those who don't believe


Make u sef go read the Bible again and ask Holy Spirit to lead your understanding as you do- Amen.

1. Did Jesus preach about and/or collect tithes?
2. Did the Apostles preach about/collect tithes?
3. Did Paul, very learned in Jewish laws, preachabout and/or collect tithes?

well,to start wth,I'm not omniscient to tell you all that anybody did.the scriptures says something interesting
John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
that settles it. but not for the first time in this thread, let me show you something Jesus said while preaching

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do;
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
question 2 and 3,just like no1,I don't know all the sermons the apostles preached.I don't even have access to records of Apostle Andrew,Thomas,Bartholomew,etc's sermons/preaching.but I believe they must have because they obeyed Jesus.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
He spoke to them in matt23 so they must have spoken to all nations at some point.It was a gradual process though.
Gal 5:14 For all[b] the law[/b] is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
tithe is part of the law.It should be fulfilled in love for God and His precepts.
I wonder what Apostle Paul wrote in his other numerous letters e.gCol 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
Thats that,but i'll like you to know or 'll like to remind you that tithe is a type of offering and offering is a type of giving.today,believers give everywhere.to church,to friends,to the needy and so on.As the early church started,they continually progressed as they were fed the word and way of God by the apostles.That was the reason for the epistles and frequent visits.One of the epistles reveal that there was a time when there was even no form of giving at the church service.I believe also that there was a time in the early church when there were no choir,no ushers,no microphones,no seminars etc.But the Spirit taught them and brought to their remembrance all that the Word had spoken.and it'll do us well to follow the Spirit's guidance of our present spiritual leaders and pastors
Phil 4:15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Image,

I don't think the need to obtain money from the congregation by all means should lead anyone to misinterprete the scriptures and mislead gullible Christians who cannot read the Bible themselves.
Your response to the inheritance question is definitely off the mark. Please check the meaning of inheritance and the sharing of Canaan land in the Bible.
When you quote Malachi: Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, you conveniently forget that it is based on Deuteronmy 14: 28-29

28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Has it ever occured to you that the rebuke addressed to the Levites in Malachi is due to non-adherence to God's instruction above. Hence the cancellation of tithing by Christ's advent, death & resurrection? I hope you know God as the unchangeable changer. He had priests rule over Israel but gave them kings starting with Saul, just as an example.

Furthermore, this practice of sharing with the less fortunate is what the Apostles continued in Acts 2 verse 45:

And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to ALL men, as every man had need.

Notice that there is no mention of tithes, rather they gave up all knowing their needs will be taken care of honestly, in line with Christ's teaching.

Hebrews 7 from verse 1 clearly talks about the practice of giving a tithe starting with Abraham's to Melchidezek. Thus when Paul says in verse 12:
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law

it can only be in reference to tithes.

@Image 123
you keep trying to misinterprete Hebrews 7 :11-13 could you explain who was being refered to in that passage try and read various versions of the bible if you don't understand, also pray for understanding. That passage (Heb 7:13  For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.) It is very clear from the above quote that the "he" being refered to is our lord Jesus christ himself. "of which no man gave attendance at the alter" again if you understand your bible very well you would know that is was only the levites that could give attendance at the alter. what this passage was saying is that Jesus christ is not a levite as people from his tribe could not give attendance at the alter. as a result of this the levitcal law was changed because it is not relevant to the priest hood of our Lord Jesus christ.

Obviously i know you have problems with this passage as it provides the strongest evidence that we are not required to pay tithes as christians. is very evident so stop trying to confuse issues. besides you have never been able to address any of the issues we raised about the real truth about tithes all you do is quote several irrelevant passages in the bible out of context and try and relate it to the issues we are disscusing even thogh there is know direct relationship. you beat aroud the bush instead of addressing issues.

Image123:

well,to start wth,I'm not omniscient to tell you all that anybody did.the scriptures says something interesting
John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
that settles it. but not for the first time in this thread, let me show you something Jesus said while preaching

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do;
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
question 2 and 3,just like no1,I don't know all the sermons the apostles preached.I don't even have access to records of Apostle Andrew,Thomas,Bartholomew,etc's sermons/preaching.but I believe they must have because they obeyed Jesus.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
He spoke to them in matt23 so they must have spoken to all nations at some point.It was a gradual process though.
Gal 5:14 For all[b] the law[/b] is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
tithe is part of the law.It should be fulfilled in love for God and His precepts.
I wonder what Apostle Paul wrote in his other numerous letters e.gCol 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
Thats that,but i'll like you to know or 'll like to remind you that tithe is a type of offering and offering is a type of giving.today,believers give everywhere.to church,to friends,to the needy and so on.As the early church started,they continually progressed as they were fed the word and way of God by the apostles.That was the reason for the epistles and frequent visits.One of the epistles reveal that there was a time when there was even no form of giving at the church service.I believe also that there was a time in the early church when there were no choir,no ushers,no microphones,no seminars etc.But the Spirit taught them and brought to their remembrance all that the Word had spoken.and it'll do us well to follow the Spirit's guidance of our present spiritual leaders and pastors
Phil 4:15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

@Image
May God forgive you for this futile attempt you just made to distort the bible, you must really think readers of this thread are very naive for you mis-quoute so many irrelevant passages out of context all in the bid to manipulate people in to parting with their hard earned money.

KunleOshob:

@Image
May God forgive you for this futile attempt you just made to distort the bible, you must really think readers of this thread are very naive for you mis-quoute so many irrelevant passages out of context all in the bid to manipulate people in to parting with their hard earned money.

amin jesu.some people no dey tire sha. wetin be unna own for church and god matter?

Are Christians justified by tithing?

imhotep:

Are Christians justified by tithing?

Well there is nothing wrong if a christian decideds to give ten percent (tithe) of his income to the church. However what is wrong is the way some pastors deceive christians into believing that tithes is compulsory and is required from them as christians Christian giving should be free will and not under compulsion or guilt. As for the terminology "tithes" it is not a christian doctrine it is part of the Mosaic laws which are not binding on christians

Permit me to share some truths I have gleaned from study bibles and commentaries since this whole tithing matter is still raging. The issue many seem to be raising is that tithe refers to the Old Testament. Do the laws of the Old Testament still apply to us today?

1. Deuteronomy 8:10: “And what nation has decrees and regulations as righteous and fair as this body of instructions that I am giving you today?” God’s laws are designed to guide all people toward lifestyles that are healthy, upright and devoted to God. Their purpose was to point to sin and the way to deal with it. The Ten Commandments are still as applicable to us today because they proclaim a lifestyle endorsed by God. There are other laws besides the Ten Commandments and God never issued a law that didn’t have a purpose. Many of the laws were directed at the people of that time and culture and we do well to know and understand the context of a scripture in order to rightly divide it. Even though a specific law may not apply to us as Christians, the timeless truth or principle behind the law does. In that light, the blessings inherent in tithing as seen in Malachi 3:8-10 is one I find hard to resist and apply to my life because it has not lost its potency.

2. Jesus in teaching about the law said in Matthew 5:17-20: “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the Law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. But I warn you, unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teacher of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven!”  There were three categories of law in the Old Testament: 1. The Ceremonial law,which related specifically to Israel’s worship which was to point forward to Jesus Christ and became unnecessary after his death and resurrection. We are no longer bound by this law but the principle which is to love and obey a holy God still applies. 2. The Civil law which applied to daily living in Israel. Modern society and culture are radically different from that time and setting and all the guidelines cannot be followed specifically. The principles are however, timeless and should guide our conduct. 3. The Moral law, such as The Ten Commandments which are direct commands from God and require strict obedience. It reveals the nature and will of God and it applies today.

3. Acts 21:23-24. “Here’s what we want you to do. We have four men here who have completed their vow. Go with them to the Temple and join them in the purification ceremony paying for them to have their heads ritually shaved. Then everyone will know that the rumors are all false and that you yourself observe the Jewish laws”. Paul, a man of strong convictions was willing to compromise on non-essential points. No one should violate his conscience, but we should remain firm on Christian essentials and stay true to our convictions. Christ fulfilled the law and released us from the burden of guilt. But the law still teaches many valuable principles and provides guidelines for grateful living.

4. In the Parable of the hidden treasure, Jesus said in Matthew 13:52(NIV): “Therefore, every teacher of the law who has been instructed about the Kingdom of Heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old”. “Every teacher of religious law who becomes a disciple in the Kingdom of Heaven is like a homeowner who brings from his storeroom new gems of truth as well as old.” (NLT). Anyone who understands God’s real purpose in the law as revealed in the Old Testament has a real treasure. The Old Testament points the way to Jesus, the Messiah. Jesus always upheld its authority and relevance. Both the old and new covenant give practical guidelines for faith and for living in the world.

5. Hebrews 3:5: “Moses was certainly faithful in God’s house as a servant. His work was an illustration of the truths God would reveal later”. Knowing the Old Testament is the best foundation for understanding the New Testament. In reading the Old Testament, we see how God used people, events and personalities to accomplish his purposes and prepared the way for the Messiah. Including the Old Testament in regular bible reading will make the New Testament clearer and more meaningful.

The Christian institutes are so far from thwarting and contradicting that which was the main design of the Jewish religion. Christ made an improvement of the law and the prophets by his additions and explications and commands nothing now which was forbidden either by the law of nature or the moral law, nor forbids those things which the laws had enjoined. It is a great mistake to think that he does.

liftedone:


Christ made an improvement of the law and the prophets by his additions and explications and commands nothing now which was forbidden either by the law of nature or the moral law, nor forbids those things which the laws had enjoined.
It is a great mistake to think that he does.

Just in case my last post on Hebrews 7 including reference to the transition from priest-leaders to kings is not enough to show you that God is the unchangeable changer, you may want to study John 4, Christ's conversation with the Samarittan woman particularly on place of worship:

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

---------------------------------------------
1 Cor.10: 24

i think u are church of christ member or jehovah witness. i really need u

@liftedone
In as much that i agree with you that not all the laws in the old testament are applicable today( there were 613 laws) i also agree with you that the spirit of the law is still relevant today. About the law of tithing which you claim is still very potent, i am quite definite that the so called tithing which you say you are practicing today is not biblical tithes which God directed in the old testament as biblical tithes was either produce of the land or livestock. and it was meant to be eaten and shared with others including the less priviledge and the levites. It was never money as we are being deceived into believing today and it was never a percentage of income, it was strictly a percentage of farm produce or livestock( the bible is very clear on that) we had people earning wages then and people in other professions such as carpenters and fisher men, they were never asked to tithe.Tithes then was associated with produce of the Land which God gave the people of Israel and the levites only shared out of it becos they had no share in the land. that situation is clearly not relevant today. As for the blessings promised in malachi 3: 10, they were not direct at you or anybody claiming those blessings today and that is why you would never see any tither multiplying by a thousand fold becuase he/she is tithing. The truth is that those of you who claim to tithe are not better blessed than does of us that don't so stop deceiving your self that there is any special blessing associated with tithing.

@opaeduc
who was your last post directed to?? not withstanding whoever it is directed to, it is christ you need and not any Man or woman you also need to study the word of God very well so that you are not mis-lead.

[/b]FURTHER BIBLICAL EVIDENCE THAT TITHES IS NOT MEANT TO BE MONEY
[b]
Levitcus 27 :30 -31,30 “One tenth of the produce of the land, whether grain from the fields or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord and must be set apart to him as holy. 31 If you want to buy back the Lord’s tenth of the grain or fruit, you must pay its value, plus 20 percent. 32 Count off every tenth animal from your herds and flocks and set them apart for the Lord as holy. "
The tithe was basically on animal and agricultural products, and was paid in kind (i.e., the product itself). If one did not wish to pay his tithe in agricultural products, and decided to give money as a substitute, he was penalized and had to add a fifth part of its estimated value to the amount he paid (Lev. 27:31). Such a law was obviously not intended to encourage payment of the tithe in money as some of our latter day saints today are trying to preach. Really i find it rididuclos that any right thinking person can still be arguing in favour of tithes as practised in our churhes today despite all the overwhelming evidence that the practice is not required of us as christians that we have established on this thread. though i can understand the reason why some pastors would argue in it's favour (that is obvious) it is the people under bondage that i feel sorry for.

Lets us all just pray that the Lord should give us a better understanding of his word. Personally the whole thread has left me confused,so I will go back and my knees and pray to Baba God to give me better understanding.

Thanks Kunle, you're a genius and God sent

Ebonyj:

so I will go back and my knees and pray to Baba God to give me better understanding.

As you pray kindly also read your Bible, particularly the 4 Gospels and how the Apostles who lived with Christ conducted the affairs of the early Church. That should be the standard with which we compare ANY church today that claims to be CHRISTian.
Most importantly, always read at least 3-5 verses of any scripture quoted to you by anyone to properly understand the full context of the quoted verse to avoid being misled.
Shalom.
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1 Tim6: 6-12