musKeeto:
So Abraham was an atheist?

Mr_Anony:
Good, now you will begin to appreciate the point he is making. . . . . . . .For most religious people, God makes it a must for them to be honest, fair, kind etc. For the atheist, there is no such authority mandating these things so he/she has neither incentive nor compulsion to adhere to them.

mazaje:

If this is true then theist will be more moral than atheist, the fact that theist are NOT more moral than atheist says your theory is false. . .The fear of authority(societal) and the penalty associated with crime is what makes people desist from crime. . .The benefits of fairness and honesty is what makes people people display such virtues. . .

Mr_Anony:
From the reasons you gave, honesty is not of high moral value. The reasons you have given are reasons of convenience rather than principle. For instance, none of the reasons you gave will make a man insist on telling the truth even if he is going to get killed for telling it.
If a person is only being honest because it is convenient, how can such a person be trusted to always tell the truth no matter what?

Mr_Anony:
I think you should read down through the discussion and come up to speed.

Mr_Anony:
was he now? I asked you a question. What was the name of the religion Abraham practiced?

mazaje:
But many atheist have told the truth even when it cost them their lives. . .If your assertion is true then religious people will be more truthful than atheist no?. . .NOTHING I know shows that. . .

musKeeto:
And I asked you a question. Was Abraham an atheist?

Mr_Anony:
Good, now you will begin to appreciate the point he is making. . . . . . . .For most religious people, God makes it a must for them to be honest, fair, kind etc. For the atheist, there is no such authority mandating these things so he/she has neither incentive nor compulsion to adhere to them.

Mr_Anony:
From the reasons you gave, honesty is not of high moral value. The reasons you have given are reasons of convenience rather than principle. For instance, none of the reasons you gave will make a man insist on telling the truth even if he is going to get killed for telling it.
If a person is only being honest because it is convenient, how can such a person be trusted to always tell the truth no matter what?

Mr_Anony:
Good, now you will begin to appreciate the point he is making. . . . . . . .For most religious people, God makes it a must for them to be honest, fair, kind etc. For the atheist, there is no such authority mandating these things so he/she has neither incentive nor compulsion to adhere to them.

Mr_Anony:
From the reasons you gave, honesty is not of high moral value. The reasons you have given are reasons of convenience rather than principle. For instance, none of the reasons you gave will make a man insist on telling the truth even if he is going to get killed for telling it.
If a person is only being honest because it is convenient, how can such a person be trusted to always tell the truth no matter what?

Mr_Anony:
Good, now you've come up to speed. . . . .

The question you now have to answer as an atheist is: What is the logic behind losing your life because you insist that something is true? .... .. ... ... especially when you believe that death is the the ultimate tragedy and there is nothing to gain for insisting on it. Do you hate your life that much?

mazaje:

Many reasons. . .For justice to prevail. . .Nope but for the fact that you want justice to prevail and you want to contribute to the betterment of the world around you. . .It seems you don't have an idea of what disintrested goodness is. . .So the only reason you are good is because you expect reward when you die. . .Really?. . .Hmmmm. . .

Logicboy03: Muskeeto, you are needed here;
https://www.nairaland.com/1144911/atheist-agenda-2013-all-atheists

musKeeto: Good. We've ascertained he believed in a God. I was addressing this post.


None of my business what religion he adhered to. He believed in a God who believed in him too. So this post
Is quite untrue as religious or non religious people may be honest when it's convenient. As for matter of trust, well that depends on the circumstances.

mazaje:

Many reasons. . .For justice to prevail. . .Nope but for the fact that you want justice to prevail and you want to contribute to the betterment of the world around you. . .It seems you don't have an idea of what disintrested goodness is. . .So the only reason you are good is because you expect reward when you die. . .Really?. . .Hmmmm. . .

Mr_Anony:
In all this, you have missed something important....
1. You cannot tell what religion Abraham was practicing, and what his religious requirements were yet you are suggesting that he was somehow not practicing it. How come?

2.More to the point I believe you are trying to make: Abraham in his covenant with God didn't have a "thou shalt not lie" clause therefore he wasn't bound so to speak to tell Abimelech that Sarah was his wife.

The point I am making to Seun is simple. No one can hold a virtue as a principle to uphold above himself if he/she doesn't hold that the principle comes from one higher than himself who he is bound to be faithful to.

For instance one of Jesus' commands was to love our enemies (matthew 5:44). Now someone who held that principle to the death was Stephen - Even when he was being stoned to death, he was praying for God's forgiveness for those who killed him. Why? because he was faithful to the one who commissioned him

I repeat that there is no atheist who has a logical reason to love his/her enemies to the point of his/her death especially since his values emanate from himself, the reasons for his principles will tend towards self-preservation as Seun has shown here.

Kay 17:

Isn't a State higher than an individual?!

Mr_Anony:
Are you willing to hold up "the State" as an absolute moral authority for people?

Seun:
I don't understand. Are you saying that your primary reason for telling the truth is that you're afraid of being cast into hell fire for lying? What happened to basic human decency & principles?

trae_z:
Well said Seun; no mind the fickle minded guy

Wahala90:

You guys still need real education. Why do people swear in court? and why is it that, for long in the USA (and till now in some places) atheists are not considered qualified and therefore not allowed to testify in court?

Logicboy03: They choose to argue with half baked knowledge and illogical premises.

Logicboy03: Atheists are allowed to testify in court in the USA.

Wahala90:
You think you know a lot; that is your problem. You talk so much and make no sense.


Read my sentence well and you will see "for long".

Wahala90:

You guys still need real education. Why do people swear in court? and why is it that, for long in the USA (and till now in some places) atheists are not considered qualified and therefore not allowed to testify in court?

Logicboy03: Morality doesnt come from God.

Logicboy03: the basis for human morality from evolution and logic.

Logicboy03: We define good based on our logic, survival and harm.

Logicboy03: We evolve instincts to survive and these insticts forms part of a primal morality. An animalistic morality
Why do we instinctively cuddle babies and breastfeed them? It is an evolutionary instinct to keep them warm and make the survive.

Logicboy03: We also do calculations. logical calculations. Why is it evil for a company not to disclose its influential holdings in subsidiaries? Because it logically follows that they can use those subsidiaries to do shady business at the expense of customers and shareholders.

Logicboy03: Anony is a tool. He doesnt know jack shytt about morality. Only deluded people claim that morality is from God. We can see what religious peeps are doing today to destroy that notion

Uyi Iredia:

It does. We infer this because we know morality isn't a property of physical matter it is an aspect of intelligence.




Nonsense. Evolution lacks intelligence and logic starts to assume morality since a simple definition of logic is rules of proper thinking.




Circular reasoning. You have already attached moral values to the terms 'logic', 'survival' and 'harm'. It likes saying we defne good based on things we think are good.



I disagree with this since I disbelieve in evolution. Evolution lacks creative capacity since that is a property of intelligence.



So logical calculations now determine good and evil. A better way of putting it is we use intelligence. Without intelligence you can't even do 'logical calculations'.




And only daft people like yourself think morality can somehow magically evolve. We know matter lacks morality as in a stone not knowing or being good or bad. We know morality applies where there is intelligence so we infer that we derive morality from an intelligent God.

Logicboy03:



You didn make one iota of sense in your post.

Uyi Iredia:

You've started again this New Year. Running away when one wants to give some dose of good thinking. At least state what is wrong with the post and I'll take it up from there.