Tayo-D:

@4Him,
That is where you are wrong. This isn't about watering down the scripture. Every message of the Bible is the message of salvation.

False . . . the message of salvation is very very specific. John 3:16!

Tayo-D:

If I preach that a man who does not work should not eat, will you call that not gospel?

A mus'lim who does not work will not eat . . . is he saved?

Tayo-D:

There are unbelievers in the world today who practice God's word of hardwork and the use of wisdom to prosper even better than Christians. These are the principles of Jesus that he preaches. The Gospel is not just about the preaching of spiritual salvation - it entails much more than that.

they can practice those "principles" from now till 2010 when they die without Jesus Christ they will go to hell.

Tayo-D:

Again this is talking to christians not unbelievers. Do you know what Paul did when he came to Athens? He didn't condemn them. Rather, he met them at their level and began his preaching from the inscription he saw on their temple: "To the Unknown God".

The galatians too?

Tayo-D:

Again, you go on a tangent. This was to his disciples, not the unbelievers.

Maybe you need to read that entire chapter again urself.
- Verse 22 talks about "the people" NOT His disciples.
- Twice in the latter verses the jews are recorded to have asked certain questions NOT His disciples.
- There were no christians prior to His death and resurrection.
- Even the disciples at that point were not yet fully believers . . . Peter would go ahead to deny Him 3rice and Phillip did not believe He was risen from the dead.

Tayo-D:

You talk as if Christ's messages is always like this one. It is not. There are times He preaches to the poor, the broken hearted etc. This are not always messages that speak directly of His person, but of His principles.

Read the gospels and show us examples of Christ watering down His gospel to the poor.

Tayo-D:

You idea of the Gospel is so shallow, it makes it difficult to rally discuss it with you. Are you talking about salvation? If salvation, yes, but the Gospel is much more than just salvation.

False . . . salvation was SO important to God that He came down in His glory, took on Himself the flesh of man and humbled Himself to the death on the cross.
Why didnt He just sit in heaven and send us psychologists to teach us how to use our minds to get what we want?

@4Him,

False . . . salvation was SO important to God that He came down in His glory, took on Himself the flesh of man and humbled Himself to the death on the cross.
Why didnt He just sit in heaven and send us psychologists to teach us how to use our minds to get what we want?

Who minimises salvation? That's the exact misrepresentation I've been talking about. There's more to the Bible than just salvation in the sense of people being saved. There are principles there that teaches about how to live in the day to day world. I asked you before, if it is all about salvation, what are you doing in school? And tell me, is the Bible relevant to your studies? What difference does your inheritance in Christ make in your studies if any? When you answer these questions truthfully, maybe then you will see what you are yet to see.

Tayo-D:

@4Him,
Who minimises salvation? That's the exact misrepresentation I've been talking about. There's more to the Bible than just salvation in the sense of people being saved. There are principles there that teaches about how to live in the day to day world. I asked you before, if it is all about salvation, what are you doing in school? And tell me, is the Bible relevant to your studies? What difference does your inheritance in Christ make in your studies if any? When you answer these questions truthfully, maybe then you will see what you are yet to see.

You're not getting my point. Salvation is the FIRST step to salvation . . . to teach "principles" first to draw the people before teaching them about salvation and the cross is to attempt to teach a child algebra before he has learnt to spell.

I still can't get over that Joel Osteen interview with Larry King. I felt so ashamed that one of the "Biggest Men of God" in America simply could not say on cable TV that Jesus was the Only way to God. Larry gave the guy more that one opportunity to share his belief with the whole world but he declined. His 'I don't know' mantra just smelt of uncertainty. Why should i regard such a person so unsure. I mean, if He's not sure of the way of salvation, how is he better than muhammad?

I watched him now and again on TV, and I really didn't get the hang of it. Yes, I believe in renewing the mind. Prov. 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life. and Prov 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: and Matt 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things are enough to convince me. However, the whole Lakewood church setting kind of felt like hypnotism (for want of a better word) to me. The dark church building and soft spoken ways of Dr Joel feels like a Psycho analysts office. There really is nothing there that points to Jesus.
Just my opinion sha

Tayo-D:

@nwando,
I love Gbile Akani, and he is one of those that got me really serious about developing my walk in Christ. However, this statement you attribute to him is very short-sighted in the sense you have presented it. "New" is relative. The newness of Jesus compared to John the Baptist was a stumbling block to many. Tell me, does Jesus' style being new untrue? How do you balance what you've said with this scripture: Isaiah 43:19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.

If you know Gbinle and and his ministry as you claim,your response above is very unnecessary and that's all I'll say to it.
We now see the "new" thing even on CNN.
A pastor of a megachurch gets an opportunity very few people get.

An opportunity to declare in a world wide forum that Christ is the only way to eternal life according to the BIble

not his own words but as stated by Christ himself,in the Bible he claims to believe in
Rather than say this boldly,he was stuttering and beating about the bush such that a caller,as frustrated as his many Christian listeners calls in and asks him a pointblank question.
what a megashame!!!!!!

Joel Osteen starts every message by getting his flock to wave the bible over their heads and say a few words . . . pay very good attention, that is about all the bible you will need to hold for the day. You may as well substitute it for ur diary, the message is usually devoid of any scripture.
It puzzles me, back in the old days your problem was trying to keep up with the number of scripture quotations in the message . . . today you're trying to keep up with the many unbiblical PMA quotes from ur psychologist (errr sorry pastor).

Joel Osteen has NO unique story of salvation . . . he has NO story of his calling into the ministry . . . nothing but "i have always believed".
No one has always believed, we were all sinners and it took one defining moment when we realised that we needed Christ for the hope of eternal life. Where is Osteen's?

I watched Mike Murdoch this morning while trying to catch some sleep and all i could do was shake my head . . . an MBA in marketing graduate could not have done better. This was no message but a shameless pleading for $1000 to complete another piece of vanity couched in the language of "sowing seeds".

Peter Poppoff was next on TBN . . . he is busy hawking his "heavenly manna" allegedly baked as described in the bible. According to him if you eat the manna you will get a breakthrough within 90 days. One such woman ate the manna and won $17000 in the LOTTERY . . . she gave a "testimony" . . . Poppoff praised the Lord and smirked that the woman had taken some of the devil's money.

Have we so fallen down the road to perdition that no longer is the name of Christ the name on our lips but heavenly manna is the road to our blessings?
Since when did we start giving testimonies of winning the lottery?
Why would someone want the devil's money and thank God for it?

Lord come quickly lest even more fall down the trapdoor of self worship in the name of Jesus Christ.

lafile:

I still can't get over that Joel Osteen interview with Larry King. I felt so ashamed that one of the "Biggest Men of God" in America simply could not say on cable TV that Jesus was the Only way to God. Larry gave the guy more that one opportunity to share his belief with the whole world but he declined. His 'I don't know' mantra just smelt of uncertainty. Why should i regard such a person so unsure. I mean, if He's not sure of the way of salvation, how is he better than the great prophet?

I watched him now and again on TV, and I really didn't get the hang of it. .

That is just my point too.
I didn't watch this  particular show but I've seen many like it with supposed Christians dancing kokoma on subjects that are very elementary.
I can imagine if  the late Jerry Fallwell or the evangelist Billy Graham were the ones being asked that simple,elementary,Bible 101 question.
I am pretty confident they would have quoted the very words of Christ from the Bible.

lafile:

I still can't get over that Joel Osteen interview with Larry King. I felt so ashamed that one of the "Biggest Men of God" in America simply could not say on cable TV that Jesus was the Only way to God. Larry gave the guy more that one opportunity to share his belief with the whole world but he declined. His 'I don't know' mantra just smelt of uncertainty. Why should i regard such a person so unsure. I mean, if He's not sure of the way of salvation, how is he better than the great prophet?

I watched him now and again on TV, and I really didn't get the hang of it. Yes, I believe in renewing the mind. Prov. 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life. and Prov 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: and Matt 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things are enough to convince me. However, the whole Lakewood church setting kind of felt like hypnotism (for want of a better word) to me. The dark church building and soft spoken ways of Dr Joel feels like a Psycho analysts office. There really is nothing there that points to Jesus.
Just my opinion sha

  LOL. . . I remember watching that interview and dropping my jaw in complete shock to the answers JO gave. The next day I emailed all my friends and made sure everyone knew who this man was and that no one listened to any more of his so called sermons. America's so-called #1 pastor doesn't even know the way to heaven and if you need Jesus to get there! that is bible-101 and even some atheists can tell him what the bible says.

  No one can convince me Joel Osteen is a christian, his actions have spoken very loudly, and time and time again have proven he does not know this God that he claims to preach about.

4Him,
I shall be waiting for your post on JO. The bible commands us to "expose evil" so power to you my brotha!

  Tayo-D,
I usually take something away from your posts but I am dissapointed in your responses here and I can't believe any bible-beliving and reading christian anywhere can look at Joel Osteen, Paula White, Creflo Dollar and co and not immediately point out that they are everything the bible warns us about false prophets!    We have the evidence right in front of our eyes why oh why are we making excuses for them? 

4Him:

Peter Poppoff was next on TBN . . . he is busy hawking his "heavenly manna" allegedly baked as described in the bible. According to him if you eat the manna you will get a breakthrough within 90 days. One such woman ate the manna and won $17000 in the LOTTERY . . . she gave a "testimony" . . . Poppoff praised the Lord and smirked that the woman had taken some of the devil's money.

After his scambust many years ago,one would have thought that this man should know not to come up with these sales pitch.
Some of these things sound like juju to the average hearer.
I'll sell you heavenly manna,you may win the lottery.
what's the difference between that and madam Linda,the palm reader down main street?

@JeSoul,

Tayo-D,
I usually take something away from your posts but I am dissapointed in your responses here  and I can't believe any bible-beliving and reading christian anywhere can look at Joel Osteen, Paula White, Creflo Dollar and co and not immediately point out that they are everything the bible warns us about false prophets!    We have the evidence right in front of our eyes why oh why are we making excuses for them?

I understand the way you feel. And to be candid, the first time I listened to Joel osteen, I felt exactly the same way you feel. I remember discussing it with my friends and expressing concern that he wasn't really teaching salvation nor pointing to Jesus as much as I felt he should.

Some time later when I listened to his message, he actually did request for those who would like to be christians to say the prayer of salvation with him, though he never asked them to come forward. It then occured to me that ministering could very well be taking place much more outside what we see on TV. My church is on TV too, and I know the Pastor tries to keep within an hour for the benefit of those on TV. However, when the hour is up, he delves deeper into ministry with people available. I want to believe that is the case with JO except someone who attends his meeting tells me otherwise. The last time he was in Minneapolis, I know our church provided ministers to help in the work of the ministry. I don't see him working diametrically opposed to the Church, but in agreement with it.

As for his messages, please listen to them and tell us if at any time you find anything he says contrary to the principles in the Bible. While I do not listen to him much, I must confess that the few times I do, I find someone teaching the principles within the Bible without necessarily quoting from it verbatim. Some may not think this shouldn't be so, and I agree to an extent. But the fact remains that he is teaching the principles from the bible and he does not hide the fact that he gets his inspiration from it.

Can I stay under his ministry for long? I don't think so. But then, who know what he teaches on Wednesdays. For all you know that message of inclusion may be just for Sundays when you get all sorts of people. Wednesday services in my church as in most, is where the real teachings take place. Sunday tends to be more of encouragement.

I'm not trying to encourage you to believe in him. Just that I don't think he deserves all these criticisms. Granted, he would have done better with the interview by quoting the Bible directly, but he still made it known that if you ask him, the way to heaven is Jesus Christ, and that is all that saves. And if I may add, the use of the phrase "I don't know" seems to be something he says a lot as a habit. That I think explains why he used it so many times in the interview. And besides, i appreciate someone who is candid and admits his lack of knowledge to those who claim to know everything.

@all,

Please watch this 2 minute video and tell me this is not about Jesus http://www.dallasnews.com/video/dallasnews/hp/index.html?nvid=192201

Joel Osteen Part I

. . . Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matthew 7:15

KING: Why are you a preacher?

OSTEEN: You know, I never was for 17 years. I worked with my dad there at the church. He tried to get me to minister. I didn't have it in me. I worked behind the scenes. I loved doing production and things. But when my father died, I just knew -- I don't know how to explain it, it sounds kind of odd, but I just knew down to here I was supposed to step up to the plate and pastor the church. And it was odd because I had never preached before. But I just knew I was supposed to do it.

My words: How can a pastor have NO testimony of his calling? How can a man entrusted with the eternal souls of 30,000 people tell us on national TV that he is a preacher simply because "he just knew deep down he was supposed to step up to the plate"?
I read about the calling of great men like Moses, Joshua, Peter, Paul, Timothy . . . this men had specific testimonies of how God called them into the ministry of leading His sheep.

They did not depend on inner feelings of loyalty . . . Moses did not have it in Him, Paul was busy killing those he would eventually lead . . . BUT when these men met Christ in the burning bush and on the road to damascus, not even the sword of Pharaoh or the floggings, beatings, jails and the wrath of Agrippa would stop these men from preaching Christ!

Joel Osteen . . . where you really called to minister by GOD?

KING: Is -- have you always believed?

OSTEEN: I have always believed. I grew up, you know, my parents were a good Christian people. They showed us love in the home. My parents were the same in the pulpit as they were at home. I think that's where a lot of preachers' kids get off base sometimes. Because they don't see the same things at both places. But I've always believed. I saw it through my parents. And I just grew up believing.

My words: ", for there is no difference. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23. Brother Joel . . . there is nothing like "i have always believed". David said in iniquity did my mother concieve me!
Where is your testimony of salvation? where is your Damascus experience? Where did you meet God?
Eli was a priest in Isreal . . . his sons lay with the women at the gates of the temple. Samuel was a great prophet in Isreal . . . his own sons did not follow in his footsteps. A family friend used to say, God has not grandchildren . . . you cannot expect to go to heaven piggy backing on your father's spiritual experience, you need your own!

How does a man grow up believing? Believing in what?

@4Him,

My words: How can a pastor have NO testimony of his calling? How can a man entrusted with the eternal souls of 30,000 people tell us on national TV that he is a preacher simply because "he just knew deep down he was supposed to step up to the plate"? I read about the calling of great men like Moses, Joshua, Peter, Paul, Timothy . . . this men had specific testimonies of how God called them into the ministry of leading His sheep.

What do you mean he has no testimony? What's wrong with knowing deep down? Isn't that what the Bible says, that the Spirit bears witness with our spirits that we are the sons of God? isn't that the witness he is talking about here? Can you tell us about the calling of Peter, Joshua and the likes?

They did not depend on inner feelings of loyalty . . . Moses did not have it in Him, Paul was busy killing those he would eventually lead . . . BUT when these men met Christ in the burning bush and on the road to damascus, not even the sword of Pharaoh or the floggings, beatings, jails and the wrath of Agrippa would stop these men from preaching Christ!
Joel Osteen . . . where you really called to minister by GOD?

He said he knows he was supposed to pastor the church and you are asking if he was called to minister. What is the job of a Pastor?

for there is no difference. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23. Brother Joel . . . there is nothing like "i have always believed". David said in iniquity did my mother concieve me!
Where is your testimony of salvation? where is your Damascus experience? Where did you meet God?
Eli was a priest in Isreal . . . his sons lay with the women at the gates of the temple. Samuel was a great prophet in Isreal . . . his own sons did not follow in his footsteps. A family friend used to say, God has not grandchildren . . . you cannot expect to go to heaven piggy backing on your father's spiritual experience, you need your own!

How does a man grow up believing? Believing in what?

I grew up in a Christian home where I never doubted the fact that Jesus is Lord. I can safely say that I grew up believing even though I remember the days when I started realising that I was a sinner and I was gravitated to Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior. I am right now listening to one of his messages because of all these criticms, and he is here saying in prayer, "thank you Father for sending your Son Jesus Christ to die for our sins." And by the way, the prayer was said in Jesus' name and not J.O's name.

If you want to know his salvation story, pleas write him and request for one. But if you want to know what he thingks of salvation, he's made it abundantly clear that the way is Jesus Christ, and that he agrees totally with Billy Graham on that.

Here is the clip on youtube.
interesting I minute clip.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfwYU2pmWYQ&feature=related

Larry King even seemed to know what the Bible said better than a man that preaches for a living.
We are indeed in the last days.

Tayo-D:

@4Him,
What do you mean he has no testimony? What's wrong with knowing deep down? Isn't that what the Bible says, that the Spirit bears witness with our spirits that we are the sons of God?

Abraham did not rely on knowing deep down, neither did Moses or Paul or Peter, or James or Philip or Timothy or David . . . these men had ENCOUNTERS that changed them. No man met Christ and went away merely knowing deep down, they went away with powerful testimonies that changed their lives forever.

Tayo-D:

Can you tell us about the calling of Peter, Joshua and the likes?

Peter did not know Christ even though he "knew deep down" that the Messiah was to come. But when he met a man who created fishes out of nothing despite him toiling an entire night for it, when he met a man for whom the winds and the seas obeyed His voice, when he met a man who walked on water . . . when he met a man who filled him with the Holy Ghost such that he began to speak in an unknown tongue he had this to say - Acts 4:20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

These men had tangible testimonies, it was these cloud of witnesses that helped them to stand bold in the face of threats and intimidation.

Tayo-D:

He said he knows he was supposed to pastor the church and you are asking if he was called to minister. What is the job of a Pastor?

None of the prophets or apostles woke up one day and KNEW they were supposed to be called by Christ.
Christ does the calling, we do the obeying . . . it is not our place to KNOW that we are supposed to lead the flock. Any unsaved soul could have made that same statement.

Tayo-D:

I grew up in a Christian home where I never doubted the fact that Jesus is Lord. I can safely say that I grew up believing even though I remember the days when I started realising that I was a sinner and I was gravitated to Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior.

Paul grew up with priests and pharisees . . . infact he grew up believing the old testament and the prophets.

Tayo-D:

I am right now listening to one of his messages because of all these criticms, and he is here saying in prayer, "thank you Father for sending your Son Jesus Christ to die for our sins." And by the way, the prayer was said in Jesus' name and not J.O's name.

How are the elect easily decieved. Matthew 7: 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Tayo-D:

If you want to know his salvation story, pleas write him and request for one. But if you want to know what he thingks of salvation, he's made it abundantly clear that the way is Jesus Christ, and that he agrees totally with Billy Graham on that.

It is no longer a salvation story when you would rather share it in a personal email and hide it when you have the opportunity to share it before millions of unsaved souls.

My mother used to say when i was younger . . . if you are TRULY GENUINELY born again you want to share that message with as many as you humanly can. If you hide it, it is an indication that you really are just decieving urself.

but the Gospel is much more than just salvation.

Please , for the sake of not bringing yourself under the wrath of God, We need to fundamentally understand that the Gospel is ONLY ABOUT SALVATION , NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS,

I believe that the Old Testament was about the Coming of Messiah, The New Testament was about the Victory brought by the Messiah and the Salvation of men as a result of that Victory,

Unfortunately, the underlying truth is that a lot of "so called Christians" are ready to do anything to get rich or comfortable so long as they can find a bible verse to back themselves up,
You can choose to work hard and to get rich , nonetheless it is wrong to try and arm twist God into making you rich by trying to do things or follow certain rules, that certain people pick from the bible, even the devil tries to twist God's Word into doing something for himself,

I don't remember Paul, Peter, John and others enjoying Roman Riches and Lifestyles even though they were living during the quite developed Roman Era, I don't remember them impacting people with Annointing for Enrichment. God would provide everything we need not every thing we want

Jesus Christ did not tell the Disciples to go yea into the world and get rich, or look for money to propagate the Gospel, instead (What they need to do the job would be provided, since they are seeking first the kingdome of God).
He simply said they should go into the world to share the Good News (which is the Good News about their Salvation).

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

As far as I understand, Jesus did not promise you that you would be rich as a Christian, He did not promise you that you would be safe as a Christian, He did not promise you that you would have your hearts desires as a Christian. All that a Christian is promised is Salvation, which is the good news that must be spread.

The bible has already made it categorically clear that We should seek first His Kingdom and every other thing would be added unto us, The bible did not say we should seek "the kingdom and every other thing together",

God is not deceived, whatsoever a man soweth he shall reap, so each and every pastor or bishop or pope or whatever that adds anything (to His Word) is guilty of doing so to achieve an aim that are more selfish than selfless .

God would provide our "needs" according to His riches in Glory in Christ Jesus , the bible did not say that God would provide our "wants",

Php 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

The early church added to the Gospel of Salvation and ended up with the Harlot called Catholism, which is still providing its perculiar problems and which would have its peculiar destruction according the book of revelation. Catholism is so messed up, that they are now practically engaged in idol worship (pennants, statues, symbols etc) knowingly or unknowingly.


Let us understand that no matter how good a pastor or bishop or pope looks once what the pastor says or is saying come in contrast to what the bible says , it simply means the pastor is commiting heresy and is going against the word of God, even if what the pastor says is good or not.


If we take time to check Church History we would see that a lot of nonsense that we Christians of today are doing have actually being done by some people in the past, while at the same time having disastrous consequences.

@4Him,nwando,

I just listened to 2 messages by JO on his website, and I have no doubt this is a christian who is fulfilling his calling. He has not and never said anything to minimise the place of Christ. In his encouraement to the body, he was quick to mention that Christ was sent to pay the price for our sins and he does not minimise it in anyway. That he does not do things the way you expect him does not make him less a believer.

Please show me where JO minimises the efficacy of the blood and I'll begin to take you seriously. I am reminded of Jesus' Disciples trying to forbid someone preaching about Jesus because he was not one of them. Remember what Jesus said? Mark 9:38 38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

4Him, you can't just pick scriptures and condemn someone with it. Those scriptures absolutely do not fit the guy. Tell me, doesn't jesus say by their fruits you shall know them? Please show us the guy's fruits that are contrary to Christ's.

Joel Osteen Part II

. . . Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matthew 7:15

KING: But you're not fire and brimstone, right? You're not pound the decks and hell and dam nation?

OSTEEN: No. That's not me. It's never been me. I've always been an encourager at heart. And when I took over from my father he came from the Southern Baptist background and back 40, 50 years ago there was a lot more of that. But, you know, I just -- I don't believe in that. I don't believe -- maybe it was for a time. But I don't have it in my heart to condemn people. I'm there to encourage them. I see myself more as a coach, as a motivator to help them experience the life God has for us.

My words: Sir, Hell is mentioned 830 times in the bible! If its not you then its not Christ. If you dont believe in hell then neither do you believe in the gospel of redemption.
Christ's sole purpose of coming to earth to die for us was not to encourage us or motivate us to live our best lives NOW but to warn us of the realities of hell and to pay the price for our sins.

KING: But don't you think if people don't believe as you believe, they're somehow condemned?

OSTEEN: You know, I think that happens in our society. But I try not to do that. I tell people all the time, preached a couple Sundays about it. I'm for everybody. You may not agree with me, but to me it's not my job to try to straighten everybody out. The Gospel called the good news. My message is a message of hope, that's God's for you. You can live a good life no matter what's happened to you. And so I don't know. I know there is condemnation but I don't feel that's my place.

My words: Please take cognisance of the words in highlights.
Sir, the words of Jesus Christ Himself - John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

How can you know this truth and say you try not to tell sinners that they are condemned already? Is this a sign of love or a sign of extreme wickedness that you would refuse to warn someone about to spend eternity in a fiery furnace?

Its not your job to straighten everybody out? Did you ever read what the bible clearly speaks about the role of a shepherd/pastor?
Ezekiel 34: 2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

Sir, your message is one of "hope" but what "hope"? hope in the security of eternal life in heaven or hope in this world? 1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Sir, my God is not a God of your empty messages of hope . . . He is a loving Father and also a Consuming Fire.

Larry King even seemed to know what the Bible said better than a man that preaches for a living.
We are indeed in the last days

I got this from Lakewood website


WE BELIEVE…the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine.

WE BELIEVE…in one God who exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came to this earth as Savior of the world.

WE BELIEVE…Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe that salvation is found by placing our faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again.

WE BELIEVE…water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ and a testimony to our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

WE BELIEVE…in the regular taking of Communion as an act of remembering what the Lord Jesus did for us on the cross.

WE BELIEVE…every believer should be in a growing relationship with Jesus by obeying God’s Word, yielding to the Holy Spirit and by being conformed to the image of Christ.

WE BELIEVE…as children of God, we are overcomers and more than conquerors and God intends for each of us to experience the abundant life He has in store for us.

I have no doubt Joel Osteen is a Christian but he ought to be bold and at least uphold the beliefs he has on his website and teach it too.
This feel good,self help,positive attitude,think good thoughts Christianity may have the crowd coming but it may not do them any better than listening to Dr Phil in the long run.

@ Nwando . . . it is not about placing christian-sounding words of belief on the website . . .
Even the devils believe EVERYTHING on that website and TREMBLE.

The big difference is that we not only write but that we are bold enough to speak it. If Paul merely posted his words of "belief" on the door of his house and went about denying the truth in the face of the kings and priests of his day we would have had no book of Romans, corinthians, galatians or timothy.

Tayo-D:

4Him, you can't just pick scriptures and condemn someone with it. Those scriptures absolutely do not fit the guy. Tell me, doesn't jesus say by their fruits you shall know them? Please show us the guy's fruits that are contrary to Christ's.

the days of being decieved by just about anyone who climbs a pulpit (oh sorry JO says his is a platform not a pulpit) are over for me.
Where are JO's fruits? Smiling, encouraging sinners, refusing to preach about condemnation, mentoring and psychoanalysis are not fruits of the Spirit.

Tayo-D:

@JeSoul,
I understand the way you feel. And to be candid, the first time I listened to Joel osteen, I felt exactly the same way you feel. I remember discussing it with my friends and expressing concern that he wasn't really teaching salvation nor pointing to Jesus as much as I felt he should.

Some time later when I listened to his message, he actually did request for those who would like to be christians to say the prayer of salvation with him, though he never asked them to come forward. It then occured to me that ministering could very well be taking place much more outside what we see on TV. My church is on TV too, and I know the Pastor tries to keep within an hour for the benefit of those on TV. However, when the hour is up, he delves deeper into ministry with people available. I want to believe that is the case with JO except someone who attends his meeting tells me otherwise. The last time he was in Minneapolis, I know our church provided ministers to help in the work of the ministry. I don't see him working diametrically opposed to the Church, but in agreement with it.

As for his messages, please listen to them and tell us if at any time you find anything he says contrary to the principles in the Bible. While I do not listen to him much, I must confess that the few times I do, I find someone teaching the principles within the Bible without necessarily quoting from it verbatim. Some may not think this shouldn't be so, and I agree to an extent. But the fact remains that he is teaching the principles from the bible and he does not hide the fact that he gets his inspiration from it.

Can I stay under his ministry for long? I don't think so. But then, who know what he teaches on Wednesdays. For all you know that message of inclusion may be just for Sundays when you get all sorts of people. Wednesday services in my church as in most, is where the real teachings take place. Sunday tends to be more of encouragement.

I'm not trying to encourage you to believe in him. Just that I don't think he deserves all these criticisms. Granted, he would have done better with the interview by quoting the Bible directly, but he still made it known that if you ask him, the way to heaven is Jesus Christ, and that is all that saves. And if I may add, the use of the phrase "I don't know" seems to be something he says a lot as a habit. That I think explains why he used it so many times in the interview. And besides, i appreciate someone who is candid and admits his lack of knowledge to those who claim to know everything.

Tayo I understand your need to not be judgemental or give the guy a break but think about it here brotha[b], this man fits to a tee the description of a false prophet in sheeps clothes! [/b]

True he doesn't come out and say things that are in direct contradiction to the word - he's smarter than that and it would immediately give him away.

True he preaches on biblical principles and uses scripture

But you're missing the most glaring sign of them all!!!!
HE REFUSES TO PREACH ABOUT SIN!!!

he's talking about making people's lives better- THAT IS NOT THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST!!! it's a false gospel!

The gospel of Jesus Christ is about how man is inherently sinful and how God sent His only Son to deliver man from his sin! This is the gospel!
Not about your best life now, or 10 steps to a better you or any other nonsense.


2 Corinthians 11:4
For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

Galatians 1:6
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

Paul said if anyone preaches to you a gospel, let him be condemned. Joel Osteen does not preach the TRUE GOSPEL of sin and repentance. He preaches one of your best life now! and that is a false gospel, which makes him a false preacher and according to Paul he'll be eternally condemned.

Joel Osteen Part III

KING: Good news guy, right?

OSTEEN: Yeah. But you know what? It's just in me. I search my heart and I think, God, is this what I'm supposed to do? I made a decision when my father died, you know what? I'm going to be who I feel like I'm supposed to be. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Not the end of the world if I'm not the pastor ,

Is this the shepherd that is supposed to lead 30,000 souls to Christ?
So . . . being Pastor was a decision HE chose to make based on HIS FEELINGS and not God's express instruction?

@ Nwando . . . it is not about placing christian-sounding words of belief on the website . . .
Even the devils believe EVERYTHING on that website and TREMBLE.

The big difference is that we not only write but that we are bold enough to speak it. If Paul merely posted his words of "belief" on the door of his house and went about denying the truth in the face of the kings and priests of his day we would have had no book of Romans, corinthians, galatians or timothy.

 

My brother what else do want me to say,eh!

I was priviledged to listen live to the Late John Osteen.
He preached the full gospel not this "feel good" message his son preaches
Here was a man who told of his calling into the ministry,the sacrifices,hearing disinctly from God.

who says a son must inherit his fathers Church?
If it's the Church of God,it's not a family business.
Where are the men who toiled and built with his dad
Where are the men who walked the jungles of Asia and Africa with John Osteen?
where were the Assistant and associate pastors ?
There is nothing Biblical about a Church being a franchise like Okonkwo and son's limited ?
That God calls a man doesn't mean his sons  are called also.
God help us.

@4Him,

So . . . being Pastor was a decision HE chose to make based on HIS FEELINGS and not God's express instruction?

Trying to dissect the guys words and repaint it dioesn't make you right. Tell me, how many people did god force to be Pastors? Even if God calls you, you have a choice to obey the calling or not. He made the choice to obey and be unique. In all honesty, I admire that a lot. He is not like many of our preachers who seem to be cookie-cuts from the same dough out of the seminary. I so much enjoyed his father's style and preaching, and I just admire that he never tried to copy him. He is staying true to his message the same way Billy Graham stayed true to his. His ministry is diffreent quite all right, and I can undersand if you fail to embrace something contrary to your preconceived notion.

I asked you to mention his fruits and you are dancing around the issue. The clip I asked you to watch includ someone who said his father gave his life to Christ through JO's messages. Another talked about their family being brought together to pray for the first time because of his ministry. He was here in Minneapolis a while back, and some people came to christ through that meeting and are members of our church today. Please share with us how many of such fruits you have through "David's blog" or the regular fit of condemnation you've done through nairaland.

Haven't you heard that it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance? Haven't you read that I have come not to condemn the world but to save it? The truth is people know they are sinners. They've live with their prutrid self for years and need no man to drive that point home. What they do not know is that God loves them where they are and has done something about it. It is this Gospel that JO preaches.

@Jesoul,

Tayo I understand your need to not be judgemental or give the guy a break but think about it here brotha, this man fits to a tee the description of a false prophet in sheeps clothes

I assume you meant to say a wolf in sheep's clothing. Please look at the major characteristic of the wolf that Jesus mentioned in John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. Do you see that? a wolf scatters the sheep. Is this something you've noticed with JO? Is he scattering or gatheirng? When he was in Minneapolis, he brought a lot of people together and many found a church home. This is not a wolf but a shepherd.

4Him,I made my last posting without reading yours and we seemed to be saying the same thing.
However it's not my business to judge a man's calling.
That's between him and his God.
But reading what you posted it seems he had no calling.
He simply was "called" after the untimely death of Pastor John Osteen.
Did he go through any training?
what does he know about Bible history?
or is it just about thinking good thoughts and psyching people up when you don't have the galls to tell them to live right,stop sinning and fornicating.
To live holy lives.
The key word is holy living not 'thinking good thoughts and being the best that you can be'.
The first step is salvation and the second is to live holy
any new Christian who listens to these his messages will come out knowing nothing of Christian principles

Tayo-D:

@4Him,
Trying to dissect the guys words and repaint it dioesn't make you right.

the words are clear for all to see. If so many were concerned about those words that they had to write, call and email him prompting a belated appology letter from Joel Osteen that appeared on his website shortly after the interview and YOU do not see it then i have reason to show some reservations about your own beliefs. Sorry to say.

Tayo-D:

Tell me, how many people did god force to be Pastors?

None.

Tayo-D:

Even if God calls you, you have a choice to obey the calling or not. He made the choice to obey and be unique. In all honesty, I admire that a lot. He is not like many of our preachers who seem to be cookie-cuts from the same dough out of the seminary.

He made the choice to obey what? His father's pleas that he preach in his stead while he was on his sick bed? Where did Joel Osteen EVER tell us God called him to preach?

Tayo-D:

I so much enjoyed his father's style and preaching, and I just admire that he never tried to copy him. He is staying true to his message the same way Billy Graham stayed true to his. His ministry is diffreent quite all right, and I can undersand if you fail to embrace something contrary to your preconceived notion.

Sad . . . really sad my brother. WE dont have a message, Christ IS the message.
So what message does JO have that he is staying true to? Paul said if any preach anything outside that we have recieved then let him be accursed.

Tayo-D:

I asked you to mention his fruits and you are dancing around the issue.

There is no issue to dance around, i cant find any fruits. If you know of any pls let us know.

Tayo-D:

The clip I asked you to watch includ someone who said his father gave his life to Christ through JO's messages. Another talked about their family being brought together to pray for the first time because of his ministry. He was here in Minneapolis a while back, and some people came to christ through that meeting and are members of our church today.

No wonder. How easily are the elect decieved.

Tayo-D:

Please share with us how many of such fruits you have through "David's blog" or the regular fit of condemnation you've done through nairaland.

If all JO had was a blog, i'd never say a word against him. When you stand before 30000 souls every sunday then you must know that you being weighed on the scales of the bible.
As for the "regular fit of condemnation" . . . i refuse to stand on the sidelines patting heretics on the back simply because i like their face.

Tayo-D:

Haven't you heard that it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance?

Perhaps that is in ur own special bible. Godly sorrow worketh repentance is what is in mine.

Tayo-D:

Haven't you read that I have come not to condemn the world but to save it?

The same Christ said he that believeth not is condemned already.
The way to save the world is not to refuse to tell them they are already condemned if they do not accept the pure, undiluted gospel of repentance.

Tayo-D:

The truth is people know they are sinners.

and that is an excuse not to tell them the truth? Why then did Christ say if you dont eat My flesh and drink My blood you have no life in you?
He shld just have kept quiet and motivated them.

Tayo-D:

They've live with their prutrid self for years and need no man to drive that point home.

they need the gospel to convict them of sin. Pls understand Paul's concept that you so deceptively manipulate.

Tayo-D:

What they do not know is that God loves them where they are and has done something about it. It is this Gospel that JO preaches.

If this is the message that JO preaches and that YOU believe in then i stand bold to declare that you both are in error.

God did not pat Zacheus on the back and say "dont worry, God has done something about your sin".
Christ CANNOT behold sin, that is what i see in my bible.
Without faith it is impossible to PLEASE GOD, that is what i see in my bible.

God loves the world but He will not compromise His standard for a world that wants all the trappings of heaven and their best lives NOW without any spiritual responsibility.

tayoD,

did you watch the little clip I posted about the larry King interview?
A one minute clip where a Christian who claims he believes that salvation is only by the  shed blood of Christ could not answer that simple question in a live interview.
I'm appalled that anyone would excuse, minimise, or downplay that fact.
Something as central as how to be saved and what salvation is could not be answered by a man of God.
What is there to defend about this outright denial of faith.

The gospel is not one sided there's more to it than "feel good".
Anyday anyone anywhere tells you that Hindus,Moslems,Buddhas,amadioha and  shango worshippers believe in your God and mine
and that it's not their place to judge who is doing the right thing
You ought not touch it with a ten foot pole.

I sincerely hope that was just a moment he mispoke.
I'll feel better if that was the case
If those are his true beliefs then we have a heretic on our hands
Because that is totally not the Bible.
The Bible is clear on the subject of salvation
Even Unbelievers know what we Christians believe in yet a so called Christian could not defend this on a public stage?

Tayo-D:

@Jesoul,
I assume you meant to say a wolf in sheep's clothing. Please look at the major characteristic of the wolf that Jesus mentioned in John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. Do you see that? a wolf scatters the sheep. Is this something you've noticed with JO? Is he scattering or gatheirng? When he was in Minneapolis, he brought a lot of people together and many found a church home. This is not a wolf but a shepherd.

That is why the devil has changed himself into an angel of light. They have a form of godliness but DENY the power thereof.
God is not mocked for He seeth not as man sees . . . while we see the physical gathering of the flock He sees a flock scattered on the hills and mountains with no shepherds.

@4Him,

Haven't you heard that it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance?
Perhaps that is in your own special bible. Godly sorrow worketh repentance is what is in mine.

You need to read and understand your Bible better. Maybe then, you will not be quick to make such ignorant statements. Here is the scripture you declare is in my own special Bible. Abi KJV is no longer relevant? Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

@4Him,

That is why the devil has changed himself into an angel of light. They have a form of godliness but DENY the power thereof.
God is not mocked for He seeth not as man sees . . . while we see the physical gathering of the flock He sees a flock scattered on the hills and mountains with no shepherds.

So you are now the one that sees like God and can see the flock scattered on the hills? Your zeal is surely in the way of your judgment.