We christians have spent so much time berating the muslims . . . sadly several experiences on some threads here have finally exposed the fact that majority of those who call themselves christians and spend time quoting the ko'ran CANT EVEN COHERENTLY QUOTE THEIR OWN BIBLE!
they dont understand it, they dont read it, they dont know Him who is spoken of in those sacred pages . . . they, like the apostles of old spoke, have heaped to themselves teachers caressing their itchy ears teaching only those things that they want to hear.
We have been reduced to a generation of catch-phrasers, we will rather run around quoting sweet lines than quoting Ps 93.

This night i spent a few minutes listening to a message by Paula White and i could not but shake my head as this generation of sheeple are slowly being led down the road to babylon.

Message title: The power of your mind: Where in the bible are we told that our minds have the power to change our destinies? What is the role of salvation then?

Catch phrase 1 - we carry in our hearts a memory of our future.: Really?

Catch phrase 2 - A spirit minded person embraces discrepancy between revelation and situation: Really?

On the road to critical thinking and free enquiry, I wonder ?

therationa:

On the road to critical thinking and free enquiry, I wonder ?

lol i'm not going to give u atheists a sense of victory. I remain firm in my belief in Christ even stronger than before, its just that i'm begining to see that there is a big difference between christianity AND christian spiritualism.
It is one thing to be a christian in label and to understand what it truly means.
I am sick of christians who don't read their bibles in church, christians who spend most of their time living on books (by money grabbing pastors) and motivational phrases from their leaders.

Christianity of old has been replaced with positive mental attitude (PMA) sermons from our pulpits all packaged with a few isolated verses to make it sound Godly . . . ala Paula White and Joel Osteen.

4Him please take heart, you are not the only one dumbfounded at the level of "activities" in church buildings nowadays,

personally I am also tired of the top - down need for conformity to a particular pattern , and standard.

I doubt whether some Christians even know that Peter and the other Apostles were leaving in the affluent period of Roman , yet the didn't seem to displace the rampant , Love of money and accomplishments that have seem to infected most gatherings of so called Christians today.

I would advise the you go to this site and download the audio files by Thomas Nelson about "Church History", there and listen to them . I hope that listening to them would let you understand and put into perspective a little bit of things that have happened in so called Churches Bodies:

http://www.archive.org/details/ChurchHistory


One thing is for sure , the so called pastors , bishops and ministers are showing fruits that any True Christian should be able to know the wolf from the sheep via the help of God,

Can you imagine when a so called Pastor cannot categorically state on TV that Christ was the only way for anybody to be saved, yet people still consider such a person as a man of God,

God please thank you for your mercy, if not a lot of us would have being consumed,


My own prayer is that after all is said and done, that I should not be found wanting by God, and that I don't end up faltering along this journey of life a Christian (Even Paul made it important for christians to realise that we could become cast-aways if care is not taking, )

It has already being said that in the last days even the very elect would be deceived,

So 4Him please take heart and just persever, and pray that God would help you to "separate the nonsense from the substance"

SysUser:

Can you imagine when a so called Pastor cannot categorically state on TV that Christ was the only way for anybody to be saved, yet people still consider such a person as a man of God,

i will be making a post on the Jeol Osteen interview from tomorrow morning . . . it will be long but i need to highlight a lot of places where i think the church is seriously in error.

Once upon a time in college i used to seek out these motivational books being packaged by our men of Gawd today . . . they sounded so "godly", so sweet that most times u forget to read your own bible, the true manual for life!
My dad never liked them for no reason i could comprehend then, i thot he was just being old fashioned. The older i have become i realise why . . . my dad set me a standard . . . he read his bible for hrs EVERY DAY. Through him i learn that the bible has an answer to EVERY issue if only u take the pains to prayerfully seek for it . . . rather than buying PMA books that are only meant to feed your ego and selfish desires.

SysUser:

My own prayer is that after all is said and done, that I should not be found wanting by God, and that I don't end up faltering along this journey of life a Christian (Even Paul made it important for christians to realise that we could become cast-aways if care is not taking, )

that verse gnaws at my heart each time i make posts like this. I like to ask if i am not guilty of the same things i write about . . . but i pray that God will keep us too in the hollow of His hands that as we talk about issues like these we too will grow deeper in our walk with Him.

SysUser:

It has already being said that in the last days even the very elect would be deceived,

the "elect" has been so decieved that when the trumpet shall sound it will be a serious shock to many. My prayer is that none of us will be left behind.

I read this article from a christian blogger and something struck me that i would like to share with you first:

[size=15pt] . . . the multitudes want a “Jesus” and a salvation that doesn’t require anything of them, just a free ride to Heaven with no requirement to live holy in this life.[/size]

Did Isaiah predict our generation when he made this prophecy?

[size=13pt]Isaiah 30: 9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:[/size]

[size=13pt]Have we heaped to ourselves giant structures that are merely pleasure-seeker palaces of self-worship?[/size]

“Why did God take away the voice of Zacharias (Luke 1:11-20)? Because God knew his [Zacharias] negative words would cancel out His [God] plan.” (Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)

Is that true Joel? How would the words of Zecharias have cancelled out God's plan? Isaiah 55: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

@4Him,

One thing I can not take away from you is your zeal. I must confess that I admire it a lot. That being said, I truly am concerned about some of your writings lately, which I think shows a lack of knowledge of the whole counsel of God., even though that is what you are in effect accusing the larger body of Christ.

What problem do you have with the teaching about the mind? Accepted, when you are teaching on a subject, it always appears that you are minimising the importance of other issues, which is why you cannot really condemn such teachings until you hang around for long to really understand what the teacher is talking about. It is like accusing someone who declares that money answers all things of non-reliance on God. I'm sure you know this is not necessarily the case.

In order to streamline this discussion, maybe you will have to list out some of the problems you have with today's teachings, and we can delve into the scriptures to address them one after the other. I'll strat by addressing a few of the isues you mentioned above.

Where in the bible are we told that our minds have the power to change our destinies? What is the role of salvation then?

Of course the Bible teaches you will be transformed, and by implication change your destiny when your mind is renewed. Please see  Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. I can see that you have a very limited idea of what salvation is all about. Salvation brings about the instant reborn of your spirit. It gives you the empowerment to change your mind (remember you are giving the mind of Christ), and it promises you that your body will be changed to be like His when we see Him as He is. There are lots of scripture I could point at, but we'll start with these.

Catch phrase 1 - we carry in our hearts a memory of our future.: Really?

I will need you to explain further what she said before making this statement. But I would think that phrase is true in light of the following scripture in  1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Catch phrase 2 - A spirit minded person embraces discrepancy between revelation and situation:   Really?

Again, you need to explain what she meant by that or better still, what you understand by then phrase. But from Romans 12 2 above, when a believer's mind is renewed, such a believer will be able to prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

@4Him,

“Why did God take away the voice of Zacharias (Luke 1:11-20)?  Because God knew his [Zacharias] negative words would cancel out His [God] plan.” (Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)

Is that true Joel? How would the words of Zecharias have cancelled out God's plan? Isaiah 55: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

I was planning to spend my evening doing some other stuffs today, but you are obviously side-tracking me. I feel the need to try and straighten you out a little bit.

It is obvious that you have no clue of the power of words in our walk with God. You will notice that I highlighted the word walk because it is the key to understanding what I believe Joel Osteen is talking about. Remember Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?. Well, the truth is that until our words are in line with God's, His will cannot come to pass in our lives.

Please read Malachi 3:13 Your words have been stout against me, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, What have we spoken so much against thee? 14 Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the LORD of hosts? 15 And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up;  yea, they that tempt God are even delivered. 16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. 17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. 18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not. Can you see here that until the righteous spake to one another (apparaently God's words), evil continued to be the lot of all.

Now let me tell you something very obvious but not so apparent. God's will is that ALL men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Now is that the case? Absolutley not. Salvation belongs only to those whose words are not stout with the Lord's. Those who have confessed Jesus as the Son of God as God Himself has declared. So no matter how much God wants you saved, until you say the right thing in conformance with His words, His will for you to be saved will never come to pass in your life. This is true in every area, and I believe in the situation with Zecharias as well. This I believe, is the context that Joel must be talking. Never isolated a statement from the entire message. You will be misrepresenting the speaker that way.

@topic,

Here's the Joel Osteen interview on CNN that you were refering to 4Him. I think you have painted his use of the phrase "I don't know" wrong. You need to be careful with this sinister manipulation of people's words http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/20/lkl.01.html

Tayo-D:

@topic,

Here's the Joel Osteen interview on CNN that you were refering to 4Him. I think you have painted his use of the phrase "I don't know" wrong. You need to be careful with this sinister manipulation of people's words http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/20/lkl.01.html

Tayo-D, pls show me where in the bible Christ or any of the apostles used the words "i dont know" anytime they were challenged with fundamental truths of the kingdom. pls kindly desist from accusing me of "sinister manipulation of people's words" because i take such very seriously.
I try as much as possible to do a long perhaps not exhaustive research on a topic before i put it up so as not to be accused such as u have just done WITHOUT BOTHERING TO EVEN READ THROUGH THE EVIDENCE.

Here is just one quote from the original CNN transcript:
KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

Here is what Christ has to say: John 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Uncle Tayo, you can argue from now till next yr . . . when you have 1 chance to minister the gospel on national TV to millions of viewers who would ordinarily NEVER get to hear it you dont balk at it. Apostle Paul, Peter, James and co preached the gospel before Kings and Queens on the pain of death.

That single quote there contained the phrase "i dont know" 4 (FOUR) times . . . uncle, this is what Christ has to say about false teachers like Osteen whom u are so quick to defend - Luke 9: 26 “For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory, and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

Tayo-D:

One thing I can not take away from you is your zeal. I must confess that I admire it a lot. That being said, I truly am concerned about some of your writings lately, which I think shows a lack of knowledge of the whole counsel of God., even though that is what you are in effect accusing the larger body of Christ.

Tayo-D with all due respect, i dont think you have bothered to prayerfully go through my line of argument at all before accusing me of lack of knowledge. I dont know all things but i'm willing to learn if you do have a different oppinion.

Tayo-D:

What problem do you have with the teaching about the mind?

Simple. Because i see no where in the entire gospels where the Lord Jesus Christ talked about the mind being the secret to our destiny.

Tayo-D:

In order to streamline this discussion, maybe you will have to list out some of the problems you have with today's teachings, and we can delve into the scriptures to address them one after the other. I'll strat by addressing a few of the isues you mentioned above.

Simply put - Isaiah 30: 9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

Tayo-D:

Of course the Bible teaches you will be transformed, and by implication change your destiny when your mind is renewed. Please see Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. I can see that you have a very limited idea of what salvation is all about. Salvation brings about the instant reborn of your spirit. It gives you the empowerment to change your mind (remember you are giving the mind of Christ), and it promises you that your body will be changed to be like His when we see Him as He is. There are lots of scripture I could point at, but we'll start with these.

I dont agree at all. When you quote Romans 12:2, like the typical motivational preachers of today you conveniently quote ONLY that portion that fits your perception and ignore the most important aspect. Was Paul talking about renewing your mind to change your destiny? Was it all about US?
Romans 12: 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Salvation does not give you the power to change YOUR mind, YOU do not have that power if not we wouldnt need salvation in the first place. John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave power to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Sir, again you deliberately misquote 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
You only get transformed to a new spiritual body WHEN He appears and not before . . .

@4Him,

Again, you have not fully represented his message. His style is obviously different from others. If you ask Joel osteen, what is the way to Heaven. He will not miss a beat to tell you that it is Jesus. However, when you ask him if there is another way, he'll not argue it with you, but decvlare that I don't know. Can't you see the difference?

Now here is another section of the interview.

CALLER: Hello, Larry. You're the best, and thank you, Joe -- Joel -- for your positive messages and your book. I'm wondering, though, why you side-stepped Larry's earlier question about how we get to heaven? The bible clearly tells us that Jesus is the way, the truth and the light and the only way to the father is through him. That's not really a message of condemnation but of truth.

OSTEEN: Yes, I would agree with her. I believe that,

KING: So then a Jew is not going to heaven?

OSTEEN: No. Here's my thing, Larry, is I can't judge somebody's heart. You know? Only god can look at somebody's heart, and so -- I don't know. To me, it's not my business to say, you know, this one is or this one isn't. I just say, here's what the bible teaches and I'm going to put my faith in Christ. And I just I think it's wrong when you go around saying, you're saying you're not going, you're not going, you're not going, because it's not exactly my way. I'm just,

KING: But you believe your way.

OSTEEN: I believe my way. I believe my way with all my heart.

KING: But for someone who doesn't share it is wrong, isn't he?

OSTEEN: Well, yes. Well, I don't know if I look at it like that. I would present my way, but I'm just going to let god be the judge of that. I don't know. I don't know.

KING: So you make no judgment on anyone?

OSTEEN: No. But I,

You can see that he is unequivocal in the fact that Jesus is the way to God, but he will not condemn anyone, because he will not get into individual cases that required a judgement of the heart. That is so simple.

Tayo-D:

@4Him,

Again, you have not fully represented his message. His style is obviously different from others. If you ask Joel osteen, what is the way to Heaven. He will not miss a beat to tell you that it is Jesus. However, when you ask him if there is another way, he'll not argue it with you, but decvlare that I don't know. Can't you see the difference?

You can see that he is unequivocal in the fact that Jesus is the way to God, but he will not condemn anyone, because he will not get into individual cases that required a judgement of the heart. That is so simple.

No he is not sir. If he were "unequivocal" no caller would have had to call to ask why he was deliberately sidestepping that question when Larry King asked initially.
I ask a few questions here:
- Neither Christ nor the early apostles used "i dont want to judge" as an excuse to water down the truth . . . Christ said clearly - John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

If Christ was on Larry King a caller would not have needed to call to ask Him to repeat His answer.

However, when you ask him if there is another way, he'll not argue it with you, but decvlare that I don't know. Can't you see the difference? - May i ask what is the meaning of this statement? Jesus Christ said - I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE . . . should we still be debating that we dont know if there is another way? What other way? Sir, that is the leaven of the pharisees that the bible warned us again, a little truth mixed with some falsehood until the entire lump is leavened.

This man saw Hindus in India and said they love "God" . . . what God?

@4Him,

Tayo-D with all due respect, i don't think you have bothered to prayerfully go through my line of argument at all before accusing me of lack of knowledge. I don't know all things but i'm willing to learn if you do have a different oppinion.

If you believe you have rom to learn why would you expect anything less of the preachers? Do you think they know it all? Absolutely not. We keep learning everyday. Your line of argument summarily condemns, even though I believe you have no clue what the people are really saying. Taking out one line or another is not a true representation of their entire message.

Simple. Because i see no where in the entire gospels where the Lord Jesus Christ talked about the mind being the secret to our destiny.

The word destiny is derived from destination. Let me ask you, do you think what you are learning in school now will have a bearing of what your future will look like? If your answer is yes, then you have no point. Romans 12:2 is very clear, you will be transformed when your mind is renewed. How clear can that be. Arent you transformed by that you are learning in school?

Simply put - Isaiah 30: 9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

Your use of this scripture is very vague. What smooth things have they told you that is contrary to God's word?

I don't agree at all. When you quote Romans 12:2, like the typical motivational preachers of today you conveniently quote ONLY that portion that fits your perception and ignore the most important aspect. Was Paul talking about renewing your mind to change your destiny? Was it all about US?
Romans 12: 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

You are vey funny. Of course it is about US. What does it add to God if your mind is renewed? Is it God that Paul said will be transformed if we renew our minds? When we determine God's will and obey it after renewing of our minds, we are blessed for it. I am beginning to think you idea of Christianity is one that just involved getting saved and going to heaven. It appears we are not to be socially relevant here. If our minds are that irrelevant, I wonder why you are wasting your time in school. I'm sure you don't see it, but you are being hypocritical with this stance.

Salvation does not give you the power to change YOUR mind, YOU do not have that power if not we wouldnt need salvation in the first place. John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave power to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Why would Paul ask the Romans to renew their minds after they were saved? Are you telling us these Romans were not yet saved at the time Paul wrote to them?

Sir, again you deliberately misquote 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
You only get transformed to a new spiritual body WHEN He appears and not before . . .

What have you said here that is different from what I said earlier. I said the physical change in the body happens when we see Him as He is, even though it is a xconsequence of the salvation we receive today. What is your point?

All I say is we have to be very careful with this politically correct "Christianity" that caters for all and does not condemn sin.
That is not Christianity

The passage of scripture that continually caliberates me and helps set my foot on that narrow path is

Matt 7 :22  

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

If you cannot look people in the eye and boldly quote and stand by a scripture you claim to believe,then you've denied faith,it's as simple as that,no ifs,buts,I don't knows.
It's stated very very clearly

4Him:


This man saw Hindus in India and said they love "God" . . . what God?

which of their gods?
Hindus have thousands of different idols and your "main idols" depend on the congregation you belong to.
Did he bother asking?
people should be careful O

Ifa worshippers and "ngene ukwu enu" adherents are also passionate about god.
Are we serving god or The Lord ?

@nwando,

All I say is we have to be very careful with this politically correct "Christianity" that caters for all and does not condemn sin.
That is not Christianity

The passage of scripture that continually caliberates me and helps set my foot on that narrow path is
Matt 7 :22  

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

If you cannot look people in the eye and boldly quote and stand by a scripture you claim to believe,then you've denied faith,it's as simple as that,no ifs,buts,I don't knows

. I understand your point. However, I think we are overlooking something very critical here. We need to consider whose his audience are. The world he is focusing on in his broadcasts is very concerned about the challenges they face. His message is to provide them with principles that will make a diffenrce in their lives. When they notice this differnce, they'll draw closer where they then have the chance of knowing more about Jesus and get saved. When you turn them off from your first statement on TV through condemnation, then you will never reach them. Of what purpose is that?

But please let's be clear about one thing. The Bible teaches not only about the life of Jesus, but about His principles. It is these principles that he teaches, and he will tell them more about His life when they draw closer.

@nwando,

which of their gods?
Hindus have thousands of different idols and your "main idols" depend on the congregation you belong to.
Did he bother asking?
people should be careful O

The fact is that these people believe they are worshipping God. If they feel otherwise, they won't be practicing the religion. The worst of it is that others might think they have to go through mediums to reach God because they believe He is far off. However, the bottom line is that their hearts is reaching for God even though they are going about it the wrong way. Why else would Paul declare that For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Isn't this an acknowledgement that they are reaching out for God? they may be deceived, but that is a different matter.

Tayo-D:

@nwando,
The fact is that these people believe they are worshipping God. If they feel otherwise, they won't be practicing the religion. The worst of it is that others might think they have to go through mediums to reach God because they believe He is far off. However, the bottom line is that their hearts is reaching for God even though they are going about it the wrong way. Why else would Paul declare that For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Isn't this an acknowledgement that they are reaching out for God? they may be deceived, but that is a different matter.

If the Gentiles already have a law onto themselves, why the need to tell them about the Jewish/Christian laws, given they will be judged according to their own laws?

Tayo-D:

@nwando,
The fact is that these people believe they are worshipping God. If they feel otherwise, they won't be practicing the religion. The worst of it is that others might think they have to go through mediums to reach God because they believe He is far off. However, the bottom line is that their hearts is reaching for God even though they are going about it the wrong way. Why else would Paul declare that For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Isn't this an acknowledgement that they are reaching out for God? they may be deceived, but that is a different matter.

so did the worshippers of baal!!!!!!!!!!
Is that a worthy excuse to soothe them rather than tell them idols are abomination onto the Lord.
We ought to be careful,bro

Tayo-D, i will tackle your much longer post a bit later.

Tayo-D:

@nwando,
I understand your point. However, I think we are overlooking something very critical here. We need to consider whose his audience are. The world he is focusing on in his broadcasts is very concerned about the challenges they face. His message is to provide them with principles that will make a diffenrce in their lives. When they notice this differnce, they'll draw closer where they then have the chance of knowing more about Jesus and get saved. When you turn them off from your first statement on TV through condemnation, then you will never reach them. Of what purpose is that?

My brother, that is the LIE of the enemy and much as i respect you as a person i will not permit such misuse of the scriptures. Please can you back up the above with ANY relevant scripture?
Where did Christ water down His gospel just to pls and draw the crowd first?
Did you read Paul's letter to the Galatians? Why werent they turned off when he called them foolish galatians?

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Wasnt these people also concerned about challenges in their lives? These people who have NEVER heard the message of salvation, did not have the benefit of Paul's books nor the gospels to make sense of oh such a hard message . . . and YET Christ thought nothing of putting His word across. Even the 12 apostles who ate and slept with Christ murmured that this indeed was a hard saying . . . . did Christ beg them? - Verse 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

The gospel is not about appealing to the feelings and selfish nature of man but to convict man of sin unto repentance.

Tayo-D:

But please let's be clear about one thing. The Bible teaches not only about the life of Jesus, but about His principles. It is these principles that he teaches, and he will tell them more about His life when they draw closer.

Which principles? The most important principle of Christ is salvation through His death on the cross . . . without that anyother "life principles" is nothing but fluff, if not we may as well heap to ourselves psychologists to teach us how to live our best life NOW.

There'as a man of God I loved and respected so much in Nigeria during my NIFES days.
Brother Gbinle Akanni.
I prayed to marry a man with his kind of wisdom and insight.

He always said "if it's new,it's not true,and if it's true,it's not new"
and of course the book of Ecclesiastes backs it up by saying

"there is nothing new under the sun"

almost every situation we face,there's a biblical record of something similar,that's why the Bible is and remains an unchanging standard

Tayo-D:

@nwando,
The fact is that these people believe they are worshipping God. If they feel otherwise, they won't be practicing the religion. The worst of it is that others might think they have to go through mediums to reach God because they believe He is far off. However, the bottom line is that their hearts is reaching for God even though they are going about it the wrong way.

We can spend the next 10yrs trying to rationalise away Hindus and pagans . . . the bottomline is what Christ said - He that believeth not is condemned already. It does not matter if they believe they are worshipping God by bowing down to a cow.
Like Nwando said . . . the prophets of Baal were also sincere about worshipping their "god" too . . . Elija cut them down on the mount of Carmel.

Tayo-D:

Why else would Paul declare that For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Isn't this an acknowledgement that they are reaching out for God? they may be deceived, but that is a different matter.

No, what Paul was saying was that the 10 commandments were already components of moral law. Even atheists believe that it is wrong to kill, mus'lims agree that adultery and fornication is sin (they even punish it more vigorously than christians) . . . does it mean they are reaching out to the God of the bible?

nwando:

There'as a man of God I loved and respected so much in Nigeria during my NIFES days.
Brother Gbinle Akanni.

My sister, i read a few of his books . . . i never read another PMA book couched in the language of christian spiritualism again.
There is a veiled difference between christianity and New Age religion . . . it is no wonder for the devil has changed to an angel of light.

nwando:

There'as a man of God I loved and respected so much in Nigeria during my NIFES days.
Brother Gbinle Akanni.
I prayed to marry a man with his kind of wisdom and insight.

He always said "if it's new,it's not true,and if it's true,it's not new"

That isn't wisdom or insight,more like a nauseating case of tautology

Somethings struck me, as much as the "church" keeps claiming to love God . . .

- is it me or am i begining to notice a gradual substitution of the name Jesus Christ for the more vague and "everyone is welcome" generic term - God?

- If someone merely quoted the words of Christ as written in the gospels word for word every sunday for 3 months, Joel Osteen's church will be down to half its congregation or less.

I'm tired of going to church with a bible in my lap, unopened all through the service, listening to the pastor tell me stories so i can applaud at the right moments and then go home feeling good.
What is the difference between church and a democratic debate?

@4Him,

My brother, that is the LIE of the enemy and much as i respect you as a person i will not permit such misuse of the scriptures. Please can you back up the above with ANY relevant scripture?
Where did Christ water down His gospel just to please and draw the crowd first?

That is where you are wrong. This isn't about watering down the scripture. Every message of the Bible is the message of salvation. If I preach that a man who does not work should not eat, will you call that not gospel? There are unbelievers in the world today who practice God's word of hardwork and the use of wisdom to prosper even better than Christians. These are the principles of Jesus that he preaches. The Gospel is not just about the preaching of spiritual salvation - it entails much more than that.

Did you read Paul's letter to the Galatians? Why werent they turned off when he called them foolish galatians?

Again this is talking to christians not unbelievers. Do you know what Paul did when he came to Athens? He didn't condemn them. Rather, he met them at their level and began his preaching from the inscription he saw on their temple: "To the Unknown God".

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Again, you go on a tangent. This was to his disciples, not the unbelievers.

Wasnt these people also concerned about challenges in their lives? These people who have NEVER heard the message of salvation, did not have the benefit of Paul's books nor the gospels to make sense of oh such a hard message . . . and YET Christ thought nothing of putting His word across. Even the 12 apostles who ate and slept with Christ murmured that this indeed was a hard saying . . . . did Christ beg them? - Verse 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

You talk as if Christ's messages is always like this one. It is not. There are times He preaches to the poor, the broken hearted etc. This are not always messages that speak directly of His person, but of His principles.

The gospel is not about appealing to the feelings and selfish nature of man but to convict man of sin unto repentance.

You idea of the Gospel is so shallow, it makes it difficult to rally discuss it with you. Are you talking about salvation? If salvation, yes, but the Gospel is much more than just salvation.

@nwando,

He always said "if it's new,it's not true,and if it's true,it's not new"
and of course the book of Ecclesiastes backs it up by saying

I love Gbile Akani, and he is one of those that got me really serious about developing my walk in Christ. However, this statement you attribute to him is very short-sighted in the sense you have presented it. "New" is relative. The newness of Jesus compared to John the Baptist was a stumbling block to many. Tell me, does Jesus' style being new untrue? How do you balance what you've said with this scripture: Isaiah 43:19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.