some more scriptures telling us specifically God will judge all sins

1 Peter 1:17 And if you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each man's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay upon earth;

Heb 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

stillwater:

Interesting!!!!! As much as David's word's sting like a bee,
_{David take it easy}

yes ma'am.  

Tayo-D:

@Jesoul,
It is actually at the heart of the topic becuase the issues I find that most people have with these preachers is that they do not preach the fire and brimstone messages that we used to hear from the MOG's of old.

Bros, have you read Christ's own messages in the gospel? Did He not talk about fire and brimstone? Did he not give them a sign as in the days of Noah? Did He not mention Soddom and Gommorah? Did He not mention the punishment on the disobedient men of Nineveh?
Was it really the MOG of old or Jesus Christ HIMSELF who brought us the fire and brimstone message?
Have we so developed itchy ears that we want to blind our eyes to the fact that Christ bled on that cross warning us of the dangers of hell?

Hell is mentioned 830 times in the bible . . . and you are here justifying its conspicous absence in our churche sermons today?

Tayo-D:

But the question we need to ask ourselves is this: "Is fornication, stealing, adultery and any such sins what will condemn the unbelievers to hell? Is God angry with them becuase of these sins? My unequivocal answer is No.

Sir, why was God angry at Soddom and Gomorrah?

Tayo-D:

So I am really surprised when as believers, we preach at unbels to not do this and not do that, as if those things have anything to do with their salvation.

Sir, salvation did not come and wipe out the law . . . it came to FULFILL the law.

Tayo-D:

But what law is God holding the unbels to? John 16 is very clear that the only sin God will require of unbels is whether they believe in Christ or not. Infact, Jesus mentions that this is the only sin the Holy Sirit will convict them of. So when you see unbels being sorry for other sins, chances are high that it is not the Holy Spirit.
That is where you are wrong. The unbels will only be judged based on what they did with Christ. No unbeliever will be rewarded for anything even if they are as "righteous" as Mother Theresa.

You're missing the point sir . . . the unrighteous will be judged first for the sin of unbelief and then by their works. Prior to Christ's death and resurrection, there was nothing like believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and though shalt be saved . . . you were saved by the works of the law. It is by that law that the unrighteous of that generation will be judged.

Salvation is not a license to sin.

@Jesoul,

I do not have the time to start walking through the scriptures to prove these basic isues with you, but in the mean time, kindly answer the following question.

1.  What difference does it make to the destiny of an unbeliever who through the "Gospel" of condemnation desist from stealing, killing, fornicating etc, without accepting Christ as his Lord and Saviour? Of what use is such righteous living to his/her destiny.

2. Are you in effect saying that unbelievers will be punished differently based on the degree of each person's sins. Those who fornicate less will be punished less etc? This is the apparent implication of what you are saying.

3. Since I've started with the scripture in John 16, please go through it again. In that pasage, Jesus outlines the Ministry of the Holy Spirit to the World. It is tripatite, and an understanding of it will help you see what you are missing from all the scriptures you've mentioned. Here is the passage again:

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Let me give you an assignement. please go over the Acts of the Apostles and show me where the message of fire and brimstone was preached to convert unbelievers. Start with the message of Peter on the Day of Pentecost and point out where he told them to cease sinning to avoid hell. And by the way, you will see the Holy spirit pricking their hearts when all they heard was just Jesus.

Pepeye:

Na wah o for nlanders, they are quick to make judgment at men of God, Joel Osteen this, Paula White that, even Benny Hinn is not left out…. These are great men of God who are winning souls for Christ, which is our number one priority as Christians; they are impacting their world with greatness, They re impacting their world with the knowledge of the Gospel.

Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

Pepeye:

Souls are being won through their ministries; Life’s are being transformed through their ministries. How many souls have you won? How many lives have you transformed? The Bible says that Satan is the accuser of the brethren    

The bible also says that Satan has transformed into an angel of light.

Pepeye:

Basically i noticed in the Body of Christ we are quick to judge and point accusing fingers at men of God Psalms 105:15 Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm

That quote dear ma, was NOT to "men of God" but to the kingdoms through whom the children of Isreal were passing in the wilderness on their way to the promised land. I see no where the old testament prophets or Jesus Christ or the new testament apostles used that misleading verse to excuse themselves.
Paul sharply criticised Peter . . . he didnt hide under Ps 105:15 . . .

Pepeye:

Luke 10-2   The Harvest is plenty, but the labourers are FEW

haha if we were to look literarily today . . . the labourers are too many!

Pepeye:

Titus 1:15-16    To the Pure ALL THINGS are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure, but even their mind and conscience are defiled
They progress to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient and disqualified for every good work.

Disobedient men are those who preach a false God to the people.

Tayo-D:

Let me give you an assignement. please go over the Acts of the Apostles and show me where the message of fire and brimstone was preached to convert unbelievers. Start with the message of Peter on the Day of Pentecost and point out where he told them to cease sinning to avoid hell. And by the way, you will see the Holy spirit pricking their hearts when all they heard was just Jesus.

Below the messages of Peter and Stephen:

Acts 3: 13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Acts 7
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

@4Him,

Have we so developed itchy ears that we want to blind our eyes to the fact that Christ bled on that cross warning us of the dangers of hell?

So now that we know the dangers of Hell, is it by not fornicating and stealing that will prevent the unbels from getting there? Why is it so hard for you to see this?

Christ did not preach the message of Fire and Brimstone in the NT to unbelievers. Please be aware that the NT did not start until His ascension into heaven. The message of F&B was well before His coming. He said he came not to condemn.

Hell is mentioned 830 times in the bible . . . and you are here justifying its conspicous absence in our churche sermons today?

I'm not justifying its absence. I am here saying telling unbelievers to stop sinning will not keep them from Hell. Unqualified belief in Christ is what will.

Sir, why was God angry at Soddom and Gomorrah?

Can you tell us how many more god has destroyed since S&G? Was christ crucified before then? S&G was destroyed principally because it was setting up a State of the Antichrist before its time.

Sir, salvation did not come and wipe out the law . . . it came to FULFILL the law.

So how many laws did you obey before you earned your salvation?

You're missing the point sir . . . the unrighteous will be judged first for the sin of unbelief and then by their works

Unbelievers will not be judged for their works. They will be judged for not believing in Christ. Believers are the once that will be judged and rewarded for their works.

Without having to expand this subject again, the only time unbels will be rewarded for their works is in the Millenia kingdom, where each nation will be preserved only on the basis of what they did to the Isreali nation. that is the separation of the sheep and goats.

Tayo-D:

@Jesoul,

I do not have the time to start walking through the scriptures to prove these basic isues with you, but in the mean time, kindly answer the following question.

 Wow Tayo, I never took you for a dodger.
 I've quoted over 10 scriptures from all over the NT that teach us judgement will be on all sins and according to what men do, you're telling me to go and study acts

 You persist in quoting John 16, and concluding the unsaved will only be judged for not believing in Christ. I've given you 10 other scriptures that say otherwise, you're deliberately ignoring them. and asking more questions that those scriptures I quoted already answered?

 I'm dissappointed.

@4Him,

Please look at the scriptures you quoted and the emphasis.

Acts 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.The emphasis hear is on the person of Jesus and believing in Him. That is always the theme throughout the book of Acts. Ans when Christ was preached here in Acts 3, the people were pricked in the hearts by the Holy Spirit as jesus said in John 16.

As for Stephen accusing the people, how many of them were saved through that? You're right, NONE.

@Jesoul,

I'm not dodging. I do not have the time to start indoctrinating you. I have provided you with the principle that Jesus mentioned in John 16. It is up to you to use that understanding to interprete and properly divide the scriptures yu've mentioned.

For instance, you talk about the judgement seat of Christ. But you need to know that it is only the Beleivers who will be there. I have mentioned the separation of goat and sheep which is a reference to the millenia Kingdom even though many preachers use that passage wrongly.

So you see, it takes a lot to explain this passages, and I have no time or energy for that, at least for now. Maybe if this drags into the weekend, I'll attend to it.

Tayo-D:

As for Stephen accusing the people, how many of them were saved through that? You're right, NONE.

Uncle Tayo-D, i expected this from someone else totally ignorant of the word. Not from a learned man like you. Because the bible is silent on an issue does not mean it did not happen.

Tayo-D:

Christ did not preach the message of Fire and Brimstone in the NT to unbelievers.

Did you read the parable of Lazarus and the rich man?
Did you read the parable of the wheat and the tares?
Did you read Matthew 25 . . .
Did you read Luke 17

Tayo-D:

The message of F&B was well before His coming. He said he came not to condemn.

He also said He came with to bring a sword.

Tayo-D:

Can you tell us how many more god has destroyed since S&G?

Unbelievable! But for God's longsuffering we long would have followed them. But read Luke 17.

Tayo-D:

Was christ crucified before then? S&G was destroyed principally because it was setting up a State of the Antichrist before its time.

Perhaps in ur own specially made bible.

Tayo-D:

Without having to expand this subject again, the only time unbels will be rewarded for their works is in the Millenia kingdom, where each nation will be preserved only on the basis of what they did to the Isreali nation. that is the separation of the sheep and goats.

Perhaps in your own bible.

how does a 25yrs old boy catch this argumentative spirit?

lol

@4Him,

Uncle Tayo-D, i expected this from someone else totally ignorant of the word. Not from a learned man like you. Because the bible is silent on an issue does not mean it did not happen.

The Bible mentioned what happened afterwards. he was stoned. Not one person was saved becuase it takes a preaching of Jesus for the Holy Spirit to convict. Other than that, you are on your own.

Did you read the parable of Lazarus and the rich man?
Did you read the parable of the wheat and the tares?
Did you read Matthew 25 . . .
Did you read Luke 17

Are those in the new Testament or Old? Do you know the differeences btw the two? Christ lived in the OT and not in the NT.

He also said He came with to bring a sword.

What sword? Of asking people they will go to hell if they do not live right? The only thing that'll send anyone to hell is not believing in Jesus.

Unbelievable! But for God's longsuffering we long would have followed them. But read Luke 17.

The difference is the sacrifice. Christ died for the whole world, not just a part of it or a few people. His sacrifice affected everyone.

Perhaps in your own specially made bible.

I have shown you scriptures at least twice in the last 4 weeks that you never knew existed in the Bible. I will leave you to continually assume you know all. God will reveal some of these things to you in due time.

@robert55,

how does a 25yrs old boy catch this argumentative spirit?

It's called zeal. That's why I try to infuse some knowledge as much as I can, and as long as he remains teachable. When his zeal is matched with knowledge, he will be such a great tool in God's hands.

Tayo-D:

@4Him,
The Bible mentioned what happened afterwards. he was stoned. Not one person was saved becuase it takes a preaching of Jesus for the Holy Spirit to convict. Other than that, you are on your own.

So you mean to say that Stephen's message was wrong?

Tayo-D:

Are those in the new Testament or Old? Do you know the differeences between the two? Christ lived in the OT and not in the NT.

so all Christ's parables mean nothing to us? Sir the parable of the wheat and tares were refering to events of the last days.

Tayo-D:

What sword? Of asking people they will go to hell if they do not live right? The only thing that'll send anyone to hell is not believing in Jesus.

What sent the people of Soddom to hell?

Tayo-D:

The difference is the sacrifice. Christ died for the whole world, not just a part of it or a few people. His sacrifice affected everyone.

That's true . . . but of what relevance is this to the topic?
Since Christ died for the whole world we shld simply tell the people what they want to hear?

Tayo-D:

I have shown you scriptures at least twice in the last 4 weeks that you never knew existed in the Bible. I will leave you to continually assume you know all. God will reveal some of these things to you in due time.

The fact that i admitted to you showing me things i'd never seen before is proof that i dont know all.
But that I know and firmly believe i will say.

The last 2 things u said that i highlighted in my last post above is flatly wrong!

S&G was destroyed principally because it was setting up a State of the Antichrist before its time.

What,

The thread is starting to sound feisty,

Please let us try and not let this degenerate into BAD BLOOD,

Rather please us "Speak the Truth in Love"

SysUser:

The thread is starting to sound feisty,

Please let us try and not let this degenerate into BAD BLOOD,

Rather please us "Speak the Truth in Love"

Thanks bro, i'm confident it wont. As much as i disagree with Pastor Tayo-D i still respect him as my egbon in the Lord. Have no fears.

Tayo-D:

@4Him,
The Bible mentioned what happened afterwards. he was stoned. Not one person was saved becuase it takes a preaching of Jesus for the Holy Spirit to convict. Other than that, you are on your own.
Are those in the new Testament or Old? Do you know the differeences between the two? Christ lived in the OT and not in the NT.
What sword? Of asking people they will go to hell if they do not live right? The only thing that'll send anyone to hell is not believing in Jesus.
The difference is the sacrifice. Christ died for the whole world, not just a part of it or a few people. His sacrifice affected everyone.
"I have shown you scriptures at least twice in the last 4 weeks that you never knew existed in the Bible. I will leave you to continually assume you know all. God will reveal some of these things to you in due time.

Be very careful bro.

In your bid to win an argument,you're making statements that sound very heretic.
In essence,someones' message could be termed useless because no souls according to you were won,how do you prove that?
How can you tell of an aftermath of Stevens message,basically calling it an unfruitful message because it was not followed up with an aftercall ?
No word of God goes forth without bearing fruit.
It may not be same day,but that gives you no right to make sweeping statements such as you've made.

I was horrified to hear you say Christ's parables did not fit because they were in the OT
Biko,I beg you,retrace and redress and repent.
You are going too far dear just to win a a silly argument at all costs?

There's a place for gentle coercions and sweet talk,there's also a time for a clear warning for people to turn from their wicked ways and unto God.
Do you forget that Joel Osteen's listeners are not all unbelievers?
"Being the best you can be" is a message after one has believed because you are damned until you've surrendered to the Lord and that message is not unbiblical neither is it OT.
I simply do not understand your arguments.
The best way to preach is the Bible way and the Bible is a two edged sword.
Sometimes it soothes,someother times,one needs a hard kick in the groin to wake up and smell and the kunu.
It's not all,God's there for you,he wants the best for you.
He is also a consuming fire and we ought to warn men of that.

@nwando,

Abeg, go back and read my statements. That they do not sound like what you want to hear does not make them heretic. Maybe you need to meditate on the things I've said here so you can understand my point. I used to believe in the things I am arguing againts now until I learned otherwise.

And by the way, I never said what Jesus said isn't relevant. Many times He talks dispensation wise, but many do not realise. This is why many are unable to discern when He is teaching about the Church, the nations or the Jews. It is this kind of understanding that gave rise to the Substituion theology where every time the Isrealites are mentioned, people try to force-fit the scriptures to mean the church.

I'm not here to win an argument. I'm here to make a point based on my understanding of scriptures. You either accept it, reject it or refute it.

And concerning Stephen, you may try as much as you want to project and come to your own conclusion, but the fact remains that he only suceeded in getting the people angry when he called them sinners. Peter on the other hand got over 3,000 people saved when all he preached was Christ. If the Bible is written for our learning, I sure learnt something form both men. Jesus said the world will only be convicted about Jesus, and not about fornication and the likes. If you want the Holy Spirit to do His job, give Him something to work with - Jesus.

I am really surprised about your outrage. I thought you'd be outraged by 4Him's implying that we need to obey the law to be saved, but you do not see it fit to address that. I asked him, and you now, how many and how much of the ten commandments or the law did you obey before you earned your salvation?

I thought you'd be outraged by 4Him's implying that we need to obey the law to be saved, but you do not see it fit to address that.

What is the meaning of salvation without coming to terms of what is sin and what's not through the law? Explain

@ Tayo further to Jesoul arguements i have a question which applies to me.

I am born again, spirit filled (now more like speak in tongues), i still engage in things i know is wrong, the spirit convicts me though and i ask for forgiveness.

My question is will I make heaven if God forbids I die in a state when i have sinned and havent asked for forgiveness.??

Are you saying once born again always born again and straight to heaven.

@stillwater,

What is the meaning of salvation without coming to terms of what is sin and what's not through the law? Explain

Paul can explain better.

Phillipians 3:[/b]4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; [b]touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: Paul mentioned he was blameless when it came to the righteousness of the law. In other words, he didn't fornicate, steal or kill, and yet he was absolutely lost. I'm ashamed to say so, but there are unblievers who live a better moralistic life than some Christians, and yet all that good stuff won't take them to heaven. their fate is the same as the unbels who are mired in those sins.

In verse 9, he mentioned not having a righteousness of his own. This is what Jesus mentioned in John 16 that I stated earlier. The Holy Spirit's job is to let the unbels know that all those righteousness in themselves isn't acceptable to God. And yet, we find believers telling unbels that they will be pleasing God by becoming more righteous in themselves. Something isn't right.

Tayo-D:

@Jesoul,

I'm not dodging. I do not have the time to start indoctrinating you. I have provided you with the principle that Jesus mentioned in John 16. It is up to you to use that understanding to interprete and properly divide the scriptures yu've mentioned.

For instance, you talk about the judgement seat of Christ. But you need to know that it is only the Beleivers who will be there. I have mentioned the separation of goat and sheep which is a reference to the millenia Kingdom even though many preachers use that passage wrongly.

So you see, it takes a lot to explain this passages, and I have no time or energy for that, at least for now. Maybe if this drags into the weekend, I'll attend to it.

  hmm . . . much as I don't appreciate the condescending attitude, I'll leave it be. We christians should not be fighting each other but set an example for everyone else in these forums.

  You can say all you want about it takes time to explain this or that - but you are ignoring whats right in front of you! There's no other way to "interpret" those verses and you can say all you want and hold on to your preconceived notions that you cannot prove biblically, (you're hiding behind "not having time" the verses speak for themselves. Period. Don't bother to "attend to it" in the future, you've shown me you cannot simply and explicitly and succintly justify your claims. Remember? like the bible tells us to always be ready to give an answer for what we believe?

 And my hope is other christians reading this thread judge and decide for themselves based on the scriptures people have used to support their stance.

Tayo-D:

And concerning Stephen, you may try as much as you want to project and come to your own conclusion, but the fact remains that he only suceeded in getting the people angry when he called them sinners. Peter on the other hand got over 3,000 people saved when all he preached was Christ.

I quoted a similar sermon given by Peter in Acts 3 and you basically ignored that.
- What was wrong with Stephen's message?
- Christ preached a similar message and the jews sought Him to stone Him but He escaped because it was not yet His time . . . what if they had gotten to stone Him like stephen? Would that mean His message was unfruitful as you accuse the message of stephen?

Tayo-D:

I am really surprised about your outrage. I thought you'd be outraged by 4Him's implying that we need to obey the law to be saved, but you do not see it fit to address that. I asked him, and you now, how many and how much of the ten commandments or the law did you obey before you earned your salvation?

Stillwater asked a pertinent question. One of the critical components to understanding the need for salvation is that you are convicted of your sinful nature.
I NEVER implied that you must obey the law to be saved . . . the law cannot save if not Christ would not have come down to die.

But after Christ died and rose again the law did not suddenly become obsolete . . . rather He wrote that same law in our hearts and gave us the power to be able to overcome sin (disobedience of the same laws).
Such that though we dont make a conscious effort the Spirit of God is there to guide us to obey the law.

Tayo-D:

@stillwater,
Paul can explain better.

Phillipians 3:[/b]4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; [b]touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: Paul mentioned he was blameless when it came to the righteousness of the law. In other words, he didn't fornicate, steal or kill, and yet he was absolutely lost. I'm ashamed to say so, but there are unblievers who live a better moralistic life than some Christians, and yet all that good stuff won't take them to heaven. their fate is the same as the unbels who are mired in those sins.

In verse 9, he mentioned not having a righteousness of his own. This is what Jesus mentioned in John 16 that I stated earlier. The Holy Spirit's job is to let the unbels know that all those righteousness in themselves isn't acceptable to God. And yet, we find believers telling unbels that they will be pleasing God by becoming more righteous in themselves. Something isn't right.

to be honest . . . you did not answer stillwater's question and you have everything completely mixed up. This quote in phillipians has nothing to do with the discussion.
Read my last post and let me know if i still need to explain myself better.

@away4real,

@ Tayo further to Jesoul arguements i have a question which applies to me.
I am born again, spirit filled (now more like speak in tongues), i still engage in things I know is wrong, the spirit convicts me though and i ask for forgiveness.
My question is will I make heaven if God forbids I die in a state when i have sinned and havent asked for forgiveness.??
Are you saying once born again always born again and straight to heaven.

I knew this topic will snowball into something really huge.

I have one question for you. As a believer, what is the purpose of forgiveness? Is it to restore fellowship or to restore a relationship? In other words, is your asking God for forgiveness a means of getting back in favor with your Father, or is it a means of becoming His child? You should get what you are looking for when you answer that question.

Tayo-D:

@nwando,

Abeg, go back and read my statements. That they do not sound like what you want to hear does not make them heretic. Maybe you need to meditate on the things I've said here so you can understand my point. I used to believe in the things I am arguing againts now until I learned otherwise.

And by the way, I never said what Jesus said isn't relevant. Many times He talks dispensation wise, but many do not realise. This is why many are unable to discern when He is teaching about the Church, the nations or the Jews. It is this kind of understanding that gave rise to the Substituion theology where every time the Isrealites are mentioned, people try to force-fit the scriptures to mean the church.

I'm not here to win an argument. I'm here to make a point based on my understanding of scriptures. You either accept it, reject it or refute it.

And concerning Stephen, you may try as much as you want to project and come to your own conclusion, but the fact remains that he only suceeded in getting the people angry when he called them sinners. Peter on the other hand got over 3,000 people saved when all he preached was Christ. If the Bible is written for our learning, I sure learnt something form both men. Jesus said the world will only be convicted about Jesus, and not about fornication and the likes. If you want the Holy Spirit to do His job, give Him something to work with - Jesus.

I am really surprised about your outrage. I thought you'd be outraged by 4Him's implying that we need to obey the law to be saved, but you do not see it fit to address that. I asked him, and you now, how many and how much of the ten commandments or the law did you obey before you earned your salvation?

Hear ye hear ye

Any Christians who succeeded in being thrown to jail,killed or ostracised by his preachings should check himself according to a "revelation" I just learned.
Once your preachings cause you any bodily harm,na you cause am
You no sabi preach the proper message of love according to tayoD.
I'll be mainly on read mode from now on.
Make una carry on.
I no go blaspheme lai lai.
God no go gree.

Nwando is first and foremost a Christian who believes that God can and has used all means to persuade men.
The ultimate goal is that men are drawn unto Him.
Let all men be liars and God alone be true.
These arguments do me absolutely no good

My conclusion is,I hope Joel Osteen like all of us everyday asks God to examine him and show him any errors in his ways.
That is my prayer too.
Whether Stephen caused himself to be stoned (a doctrine I reject) or got stoned because the devil in those unbelievers could not stand the truth,I choose to believe the Bible not man's interpretation of it.

Christ returns for a church without spot or wrinkle,that's my ultimate target.

Amen.

@all,

Una come they attack me left, right and center. na wa o. god is able. He is my stregth.

@Jeseoul,

I'm sorry if I sound condescending. I did not mean to. I'm attending to these issues while working at the same time, so I do not get to peruse some of the things I write and so have a chance to delete what may be offensive. Please accept my sincere apologies.

You have indeed quoted scriptures, but it don't mean they are appropriate for the situations you have tried to apply them. I refered to 2 of the scriptures you quoted and showed you that one does not refer to unbelievers and the other is actually a millenial scripture. But of course, many do not know that and so apply the scriptures wrongly.

I quoted a similar sermon given by Peter in Acts 3 and you basically ignored that.
- What was wrong with Stephen's message?

I did not ignore what Peter preached. Go back and see my answer. Peter's focus was on Christ, including the passage you highlighted.

There is a lot to learn from Stephen's message. The people listened to Him all the while he was preaching about God's deliverance of His people up until that point in history. However, he started accusing the people, and the focus went from Christ to man, and they became angry. he lost them at that point. Compare to Peter's message and every other message leading to salvation in the Book of Acts, and you will see that no one got saved from focusing on themselves but Christ.

to be honest . . . you did not answer stillwater's question and you have everything completely mixed up. This quote in phillipians has nothing to do with the discussion.

It absolutely aswers the question. The place of the law with regards to salvation is NIL. Paul made that clear from the passage in Phillipians. Please read it over again.

I don tire. I need to go home. I'll try and get to it at home.

@nwando,

Hear ye hear ye
Any Christians who succeeded in being thrown to jail,killed or ostracised by his preachings should check himself according to a "revelation" I just learned.
Once your preachings cause you any bodily harm,na you cause am
You no sabi preach the proper message of love according to tayoD.
I'll be mainly on read mode from now on.
Make una carry on.
I no go blaspheme lai lai.
God no go gree.

Try and be honest please. Your twisting my words does not make you right. You might do well to address what it takes to be saved, and what laws you have to obey in addition to your faith in Christ that will make guarantee your salvation.

Does anyone agree with me that obdience to the law is not a prerequisite to salvation? If anyone does, why then do we require unbelievers to obey the law when we are trying to get them saved? Please provide cogent answers to this without trying to assasinate my character. I'll be more than willing to learn.

Tayo-D:

@all,
Una come they attack me left, right and center. na wa o. god is able. He is my stregth.

Brotherly, nice1, its all good the attack is to edify us all, its been quite an interesting debate, thanks to u all, our goals are all the same.

To your question, it is to restore fellowship, i already have a relationship. But i need that answer clear, will that person make heaven or not?

Tayo-D:

There is a lot to learn from Stephen's message. The people listened to Him all the while he was preaching about God's deliverance of His people up until that point in history. However, he started accusing the people, and the focus went from Christ to man, and they became angry. he lost them at that point.

Shocking!
John 8: 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

So going by your wholesale condemnation of Stephen . . . we can conclude that Christ also started accusing the people, the focus went from Christ to man, they became angry, he lost them at that point . . . they wanted to stone Him.

Uncle Tayo . . . the word of God does 2 things . . . either condemns you of your sins unto righteousness or makes you hate the word the more. There is no sitting on the fence.
Just like Stephen . . . Christ was crucified by those who accused Him of blasphemy, Paul was killed, ditto for Peter who was crucified upside down, James was beheaded by Herod because he convicted him of sin in his heart, John the baptist had his head in a charger . . .

Where all these heroes of faith killed because their messages turned from Jesus to man?

To say i'm shocked is an understatement at this point.

Tayo-D:

Compare to Peter's message and every other message leading to salvation in the Book of Acts, and you will see that no one got saved from focusing on themselves but Christ.

Where did Stephen focus on Himself? Pls show me.

Tayo-D:

It absolutely aswers the question. The place of the law with regards to salvation is NIL. Paul made that clear from the passage in Phillipians. Please read it over again.

Matthew 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.