Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? - Religion (3) - Nairaland
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| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by TayoD1(m): 9:01pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
@4him, No wonder. How easily are the elect decieved.Perhaps you are the one deceived. Please examine yourself as well. The same Christ said he that believeth not is condemned already.So we should discard the fact that He declared that He did not come to condemn the world? This is where scriptures need to be balanced with scripture, so we don't go off on a tangent as you are doing The way to save the world is not to refuse to tell them they are already condemned if they do not accept the pure, undiluted gospel of repentance.Salvation is knowing you are a sinner and accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. He does this at the end of every service and people get born again. How many are born again through your ministry of condemnation? |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(m): 9:07pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
Tayo-D: my brother, i would encourage you to do the same. I am sick of reading scriptures twisted to read what they dont mean. What "goodness of God" was Paul talking about here? Simple - His longsuffering, His patience with us who were wallowing in sin, His willingness to take our place on the cross . . . nothing to do with the false "goodness" that JO and his ilk promote. It is certainly not the "goodness" that has to do with refusing to warn the flock of sin, not the "goodness" that "accepts everyone", not the "goodness" that shies away from condemning homosexuality, not the "goodness" that hopes to draw the people with motivational speeches . . . Dont just stop at verse 4 simply because it contains the word "goodness" . . . look further down - 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; Tayo-D: I simply quoted the bible there. I didnt say i was seeing anything. I dont need to see, the bible is clear for all to see and judge whether the things that we see and hear from JO are of God or not. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by TayoD1(m): 9:09pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
@4Him, Let me share with you something I'm sure you do not know. The only sin the world will be judged for is the sin of not accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. Every other sin is irrelevant because that is not what will send them to hell. The only thing that'll send them to hell is refusing the shed blood. So when you go around preaching do not do this or that, you really stand the risk of having people who see their salvation as a work experience because they had to do something to be saved. Before you say I am preaching this out of my own Bible, please take a look at John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 O[b]f sin, because they believe not on me;[/b] 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. Notice that the sin mentioned in this passage is singular. Verse 9 mentions the single sin that they will be reproved of. So you see, many messages of condemnation are actually not biblical. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by Nobody: 9:17pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
"I believe with all my heart that it is only through Christ that we have hope in eternal life. I regret and sincerely apologize that I was unclear on the very thing in which I have dedicated my life. Jesus declared in John 14; I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me. I believe that Jesus Christ alone is the only way to salvation. However, it wasn’t until I had the opportunity to review the transcript of the interview that I realized I had not clearly stated that having a personal relationship with Jesus is the only way to heaven. It’s about the individual’s choice to follow Him." The above is a part of his apology which I never knew existed till 4Him said so. having read that,I believe the man has a sincere heart and was just overtaken in an interview while trying to appeal to everyone. Hopefully he's learnt from it. If I were him,I'll want to return on Larry King to set the records straight. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by ow11(m): 9:21pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
@4Him I have a couple of questions for you. 1. You were going on how an 'encounter' is necessary to be born again. I want to ask , can't someone get born again by looking at his life, deciding this isn't the way to go and would like to live a life that pleases God? or must there be a thunderstrike or leprosy or many of those wonderful stories we read in the bible before the 'born again' is considered real? 2. Concerning becoming a pastor, I'm not quite sure how that works but Is this 'encounter' a necessity for the call to be real? |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(m): 9:24pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
Tayo-D: Perhaps none at this point but if the only thing that comes out of this is that people begin to read their bibles a little more then it would have been worth it. The ministry of indulgence isnt doing anyone any favors either. Tayo-D: Tayo-D, that is not a mystery. Accepting Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour is an admission that you know that ur lifestyle is wrong . . . it is impossible to be saved and continue to steal or lie or cheat or be a homosexual. That is why the bible magnifies the sin of unbelief higher than others. My dad usually likens salvation to a common entrance exam. You cant be accused of failing ur JSS 3 exams if u never passed the entrance exam to secondary school in the first place. Likewise you cant pass ur common entrance exams and then go sit down at home expecting ur SSCE certificate. You have to pass other exams too. You say the messages of condemnation is not biblical and i wonder, but God condemned the people of Soddom and Gomorrah, God condemned the men of Nineveh until they repented . . . but Paul condemned the sin of homosexuality in romans . . . but the bible says the gospel of salvation condemns us of siin unto righteousness . . . |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by TayoD1(m): 9:29pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
@nwando, The above is a part of his apology which I never knew existed till 4Him said so.That is why I said earlier that his use of the phrase "I don't know" is actually kind of a habit when he speaks. He used it several times in his interview. But of course, the ministry of condemnation will not like to take that into account. And by the way, what do you have to say about the scripture I shared in John 16 above? I am waiting for 4Him to explain it away. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(m): 9:29pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
ow11: that in itself is an encounter. It is something that you dont just "feel", salvation is not somthing that you have always been . . . it is a concrete decision that you make at a particular point in your life. Not everyone will be struck by lightening on the road to damascus but salvation is not something you grow into either. ow11: My brother that is why not everyone can just jump on a pulpit and take the label pastor. Unless God specifically calls you then you have only succeeded in fooling urself. A man who takes up the added responsibility of leading the flock must have concrete proof of God's calling on his life. It does not have to be a burning bush experience but it shld not be because ur father just begged you to do so either. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(m): 9:34pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
Tayo-D:  i had to laugh at this point. Maybe i shld put a sign on my door today - Condemnation Gospel church! The ministry of indulgence is also versed in the bible too . . . they have mainly isolated bible verses to explain away their reluctance to confront the lifestyles of their flock as long as the cathedral is full every sunday. Tayo-D: i already did give my explanation. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by Nobody: 9:35pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
Brethren,it's not necessary to continue this. Since I found out Pastor Joel apologised for his statements,I'm satisfied. It shows he has a teachable Spirit. May God guide him and continue to teach him let's pray for him and all men of God. Tayo D,be careful the things you support or excuse, are we here to win an argument or to call a spade a spade? |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by TayoD1(m): 9:39pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
@4Him, You say the messages of condemnation is not biblical and i wonder, but God condemned the people of Soddom and Gomorrah, God condemned the men of Nineveh until they repented . . . but Paul condemned the sin of homosexuality in romans . . . but the bible says the gospel of salvation condemns us of siin unto righteousnessThat is the difference between the Old and New Testaments. That is why Paul says the OT is the Ministry of condemnation while the New is that of Righteousness. You cannot summarily condemn the world because Christ died for the whole world. Their sins are paid for already, though not all will come to accept that gift. Paul rightly condemned the sin, and no one including JO encourages it. Infact, he said that much in his interview on CNN. However, you will need to understand that whichver road you take, the bottom line is that until people realise that it is sin not to know Jesus, they won't be saved. So if you cut through all the condemnation and go straight to Jesus, you will achieve the same. Paul rightly said, knowing the terror of God, we persuade men. The unblievers cannot fathom this, we are the once that do, and the knowledge of that constrains us to continually preach Jesus and not keep asking them to quit what they cannot quit without Him. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(m): 9:42pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
nwando: ma'am i'm afraid to disagree with you . . . it does not show a teachable spirit, it shows a devious spirit. The "apology letter" was a smart political move, he would have lost the support of many high ranking church leaders here in the US if he had refused to respond to such criticism. The only change in the last 2 yrs is that he simply hasnt gone back for another interview . . . it is still the same spirit of lukewarmness. Still the same false smiles, PMA messages, wordless sermons and pleasure seeking appeal to self worshippers. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by TayoD1(m): 9:44pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
@nwando, Tayo D,be careful the things you support or excuse,Thanks for the advise. I mentioned earlier too that I believe that JO could have done better with that interview. But I just refuse to condemn him like David has done because I know the accusation do not fit. We also need to understand that our ministries are different, and so is our emphasis but inall Christ is the one who must be the central figure and I believe this is so with JO. @4Him, I would have considered attanding you "Condemnation Gospel Church", but those 2 words in bold are contradictory, or what do you think? |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by ow11(m): 9:47pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
@4Him thanks for clearing that up. church is now a business 'quote from oyedepo'. . . thats probably why children inherit the 'mantle' from their popsies. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(m): 9:50pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
Tayo-D: Depends . . . to those of us who believe - Christ is a precious stone and is become the head of the corner . . . to those who disbelief, that same stone is a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence. 1 Peter 2:7-8 |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by TayoD1(m): 9:58pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
@ow11, thanks for clearing that up.Exactly what is his point? Don't be deceived, God calls you the same way He directs you in your everyday life - the inner witness. Having people tell you it has to be grandiose isn't supported by the Bible. Accepted that may happen, but as Kenneth Hagin would say, "that it is supernatural does not make it God." |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(m): 10:12pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
Tayo-D: I'm not even sure you bothered to read my reply. I'll reproduce it here: that in itself is an encounter. It is something that you don't just "feel", salvation is not somthing that you have always been . . . it is a concrete decision that you make at a particular point in your life. Not everyone will be struck by lightening on the road to damascus but salvation is not something you grow into either. It doesnt have to be grandiose, mine wasnt. My dad's was, my mum's wasnt . . . God works with everyone is different ways. That being said, i do not subscribe to the idea that "i have always believed". |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by Nobody: 10:59pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
david don't be too hard. We are all running to obtain. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by Nobody: 11:18pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
4Him: David!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please. It's not easy for a man of God to see his fault when it's thrown in his face and he humbles himself Many would let their testosterone take over. Like You,I would that he balances his preaching with the full gospel of Christ. Telling his hearers to repent and turn from sin like his father did. I've listened to him on TV numerous times and I don't hear the clear message to turn from sin But let's pray for him rather than condemn him. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by debosky(m): 11:35pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
@ David why could he not have 'always believed' ? If he gave his life to Christ at a tender age, and has remained in the faith till now, what gory stories of his sin and dejectedness do you expect? He saw examples in his parents and likely believed with child-like faith which led to where he is now. If he did not realise his calling before his dad died. . .how can you say he was never 'called'? He said he KNEW. The experience of knowing in itself counts as a call. I don't know what you regard as 'ministry', but we ALL are called to ministry the MINUTE we become Christians as the great Commission tells us. He was involved in the ministry and had to take on a new role he did not expect previously or prepare for, but that is all up to God to decide - his experience may not satisfy your own reading/expectation of a 'call' but if it satisfies him and God, that is all there is to it. His messages on TV are not focused on telling people to turn from sin, but I have not attended his services regularly to determine if he never focuses on that during his sermons. His focus is on reconciliation, telling people what way to live their lives - that in itself is showing that the other way is not right. The actual syntax used to achieve the aim of re-uniting with Christ is not the issue here - I don't see one place where he has said 'its ok to fornicate or lie just as long as you come to church'. Granted that his equivocation on the status of unbelievers was disappointing, it does not take away from his core belief that Jesus is the way. Maybe he needs further grounding or establishment in the ministry, but to condemn him based on that alone? I disagree. Many people get caught up in using the bible as a cliche - if he breaks it down to life application, I see no wrong in that. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(m): 11:44pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
nwando: very true. Fact is i used to look up to these men when i was younger. I saw the enthusiasm on the faces of my friends, i loved the upbeat music, i loved to read the books that promised heaven on earth if only i could recite a few words to myself on waking up . . . in contrast i didnt very much like my home church. Half the time we left the place feeling miserable for stealing meat from our mothers pot . . . "God shldnt consider that as stealing" . . we all thot. But the older i grew the more disenchanted i became. The books gave me a pretty feeling while reading them but nothing of substance that i could remember long afterwards. My friends "loved the Lord" in their own little way but knew very little of the bible. I began to wonder why. Indeed we are all running a race to obtain . . . but some are not really running, others are busy on a threadmill working up a sweat but going nowhere and many others are running with heavy weights tied around their ankles. It may seem like condemnation but its hard to wonder what the fate of 30000 people (including millions on the TV and internet) would be who are daily "nourished" on a diet of encouragement and motivation. Paul said we should at some point in our christian growth desire STRONG MEAT and BONES . . . no child grows up on a diet of milk and mashed potatoes forever. It is not enough to fill ur sermons with anecdotes, sweet tales of God's favour . . . the christian race is not a disney park ride of fun, laughter, family reunions and vacations . . . rather we are admonished to be good soldiers of Christ able to run the race that is set before us without the entanglments of this life. In this age of everything NOW we no longer want to read about Godly sorrow, trials and temptations, warring . . . but that is what the bible describes as the christian race. In our bid not to be too hard or not to sound judgemental, we have slowly allowed sin to creep into our midst, our pastors now openly speak about their divorce as if it is of no consequence, pastors talk about open doors for homosexuals (never bothering to show them the error of their ways), we have persisted in the error of Balaam . . . taking God's silence as a liberty to bend the rules. Balaam was in error YET an angel of the Lord was still speaking to him, infact God used him to bless Isreal . . . we all know how he ended up - a mad prophet. There must have been junior prophets too who must have patted him on the back for "doing God's will". The truth is now too hard for the people to bear, we have watered down the truth so as to accomodate those for whom church is no more than a recreational center to assuage their feelings of guilt. Our early apostolic fathers must be looking at our generation in amazement . . . they were crucified and beaten for the gospel . . . today christians are the toast of the town, evangelicals now have a powerful movement within the republican party in the US . . . in Nigeria our pastors are now highly sought after to bless the newly rigged-in president. YET Christ said at His appearing it would be hard to find faith on the earth . . . was He lying? Arent our churches the largest auditoriums on earth today? Hmmm . . . while men slept, the enemy came forth and sowed tares among the wheat . . . the question wont be about the gospel of condemnation on the last day, it will be whether u are part of the tares who should be bundled for the fire or part of the wheat to be gathered into His barn. I want to be part of the wheat . . . its hard to tell these days as even the tares are so alike. The Berean christians are a fast disappearing breed . . . they have sadly been replaced by the laodecian church. They are rich and full and have need of nothing . . . its only a little PMA. Not bad eh. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(m): 11:57pm On Feb 25, 2008 |
debosky: There is an age of accountability and the bible records that as 20yrs in the OT. It may be younger today . . . but i dont buy that bull about "giving life to Christ at a tender age" . . . it is the favorite excuse of those moralists and religious people keeping up a facade of what they are not. debosky: He said he "just knew deep down" . . . "i dont know" . . . "i just felt" . . . those are not the words of a man who is BOLD AS A LION in the assurance of his master's calling. debosky: why then did Christ give us specific instructions on the character of pastors and deacons? Why wasnt James sent to the gentiles? Why didnt Philip carry his bags and head off to antioch? These men knew something we take for granted today . . . they had a specific call on their lives to reach out to a specific group of people. They heard God speak. debosky: then his message cannot be of God. Christ spent 3.5yrs on earth preaching the very same thing you say his TV messages are not about. debosky: Christ did not come and die on the cross that WE may live good lives . . . it really isnt about us at all. debosky: silence is as good as condoning their sinful lifestyle. debosky: Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Core beliefs that cannot be vocalised is useless. Even the devils have that core belief and tremble. debosky: As the pastor of the largest congregation in America since 1999? |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by TayoD1(m): 12:45am On Feb 26, 2008 |
@nwando, Telling his hearers to repent and turn from sin like his father did.What sin are we talking about here. It is clear from Jesus' statement in the Gospel of John that the only sin that the Holy Spirit will reprove the sinner of is that of not believing in the Lord Jesus. He won't leave His ministry just because we want Him to. We waste our time when we tell unbelievers don't do this, don't do that. All we are to tell them is Acknowledge you are a sinner and accept what God has done for you in Christ. This is what JO and others do. Trying to work guilt into their hearts through all these condemnation is actually contrary to the Words of Jesus. So are we encouraging sin? No. The only reason why we should tell sinners to desist from sinful acts and unrighteousness is because of its consequences, not because desisting will save them. This is the reason why the state even promulgates laws because obdience to such laws is helpful to the society, not because it saves the society. We need to make that distinction very clearly lest we find ourselves unknowingly preaching salvation by works. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by Nobody: 1:21am On Feb 26, 2008 |
Tayo-D: so this concept of sin applies to the believer too? so if i fornicate now its not a sin bt if i dont believe Christ is the sin right? pls explain. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by TayoD1(m): 1:30am On Feb 26, 2008 |
@babaearly, so this concept of sin applies to the believer too? so if i fornicate now its not a sin bt if i don't believe Christ is the sin right? please explain.No. It applies solely to unbelievers. What sends unbelievers to hell is not that they fornicate or steal, but rather that they do not believe on Jesus. So no matter how much you tell an unbeliever to not indulge in these sins, it does not change their fundamental nature. And hammering on these gives them the idea that they need to stop doing wrong and start doing right, then they'll be qualified for salvation. That can't be any further from the truth. The work of salvation is finished, nothing can be added or taken away from it. I hope I am clear now. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by Nobody: 6:52am On Feb 26, 2008 |
Interesting!!!!! As much as David's word's sting like a bee, I would only be deceiving myself to conclude that televangelists as well as pastors focus on salvation. This is my problem. The sole reason why a man of God should be on television is to reach people without the knowlege of Jesus Christ, unless its just a free advertisement of the church. How is an unbeliever (who haven't heard of Jesus), going to understand what you are talking about on TV if you don't brief him up on who Jesus is before talking about acquiring wealth? I think there has to be a recheck on our thinking because for years now there have been a misplacement of priorities in the church. It's really now about the hype (also heroworshipping of man) and not the message, which is very sad to say. David take it easy |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by Pepeye(f): 2:11pm On Feb 26, 2008 |
Na wah o for nlanders, they are quick to make judgment at men of God, Joel Osteen this, Paula White that, even Benny Hinn is not left out…. These are great men of God who are winning souls for Christ, which is our number one priority as Christians; they are impacting their world with greatness, They re impacting their world with the knowledge of the Gospel. Souls are being won through their ministries; Life’s are being transformed through their ministries. How many souls have you won? How many lives have you transformed? The Bible says that Satan is the accuser of the brethren This is a personal race; we all are embarking on in this journey of life. You can stumble and fall and get up immediately and continue your race and even over take others in front of you Psalm 37:23:24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand. However if the man erred in any way in his interview does not make him any less a man of God, irrespective of what the devil may say, he could make mistakes no man is infallible, that’s the reason why the bible says look unto Christ the Author and Finisher of our faith, and not to man. As for the teaching of Paula White, Romans 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, But be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God Basically i noticed in the Body of Christ we are quick to judge and point accusing fingers at men of God Psalms 105:15 Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm These are men of God, who are busy winning souls for Christ in their ministries How many souls have you won? Suffice it to say that we should go out there and win souls for Christ and stop condemning Luke 10-2 The Harvest is plenty, but the labourers are FEW Titus 1:15-16 To the Pure ALL THINGS are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure, but even their mind and conscience are defiled They progress to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient and disqualified for every good work. Shalom |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by JeSoul(f): 2:35pm On Feb 26, 2008 |
 I expected so much more from some nairaland christians, and I'm really saddened by some responses. . . how can anyone, anyone not see thru the lies and facade of these so-called ministers? Has the church now become so blind? so deaf? can't you see the scriptures are being fulfilled before our very eyes? 2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear I'll repeat the gospel is about sin and salvation - nothing else!!!! If a preacher is not preaching about sin and salvation he is preaching a false gospel! How hard is this to understand? the scriptures teach this so so many times! The gospel is not about giving you a good life, or being financially stable or your best life now! that is rubbish. how blind have christians become? and fallen for these wolves in sheeps clothing? Indeed the very elect are being deceived.  |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by TayoD1(m): 2:44pm On Feb 26, 2008 |
@Jesoul, I'll repeat the gospel is about sin and salvation - nothing else!!!!My question to you Jesoul. What sin are we talking about here? |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by JeSoul(f): 3:04pm On Feb 26, 2008 |
Tayo-D: Sin is the breaking of God's law. Period. Sin is the stealing, lying, immorality, fornication, blasphemy etc. What does this have to do with the topic? I skimmed thru a little bit of your posts about it above but I think you're totally going off point. You're saying the sin men will be convicted of sin becos they haven't believed in Jesus (John 16). Those that are not saved will be judged according to ALL they've done, not just that they didn't believe in Jesus! That is one sin among many. Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. Lk 12:47 And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few Revelation 2:23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. Revelation 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Revelation 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by TayoD1(m): 3:40pm On Feb 26, 2008 |
@Jesoul, What does this have to do with the topic?It is actually at the heart of the topic becuase the issues I find that most people have with these preachers is that they do not preach the fire and brimstone messages that we used to hear from the MOG's of old. But the question we need to ask ourselves is this: "Is fornication, stealing, adultery and any such sins what will condemn the unbelievers to hell? Is God angry with them becuase of these sins? My unequivocal answer is No. So I am really surprised when as believers, we preach at unbels to not do this and not do that, as if those things have anything to do with their salvation. Sin is the breaking of God's law. Period. Sin is the stealing, lying, immorality, fornication, blasphemy etc.But what law is God holding the unbels to? John 16 is very clear that the only sin God will require of unbels is whether they believe in Christ or not. Infact, Jesus mentions that this is the only sin the Holy Sirit will convict them of. So when you see unbels being sorry for other sins, chances are high that it is not the Holy Spirit. I skimmed through a little bit of your posts about it above but I think you're totally going off point. You're saying the sin men will be convicted of sin because they haven't believed in Jesus (John 16).That is where you are wrong. The unbels will only be judged based on what they did with Christ. No unbeliever will be rewarded for anything even if they are as "righteous" as Mother Theresa. You need to look at those scriptures again, and you'll find that rewards are only meant for those who have come to believe in Christ. We are the once that God will reward based on our faithfulness or otherwise. There is absolutely no hope for those who do not die in Christ to receive any blessings. |
| Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by JeSoul(f): 4:30pm On Feb 26, 2008 |
Tayo-D, you must not have even taken a look at all the scriptures I gave you to support that those that don't believe in Christ will be judged for ALL THEY DO! all their sins, whether its the stealing, the lying, the refusal to accept Christ etc. ALL THEIR SINS!!! Tayo-D: oh the same fire and brimstone message Jesus preached on right? are these preachers suddenly more better, knowledgeable, spiritual than Jesus himself? or Paul or any of the apostles who spoke so much on sin? Can't you see that the "feel-good" message of today is a drastic deviation from the gospel we see in the NT? But the question we need to ask ourselves is this: "Is fornication, stealing, adultery and any such sins what will condemn the unbelievers to hell? Is God angry with them becuase of these sins? My unequivocal answer is No.please when you make such audacious claims like these, back them up with the relevant scripture. or else refrain. But what law is God holding the unbels to? John 16 is very clear that the only sin God will require of unbels is whether they believe in Christ or not. You're quoting only John 16, and delibrately forgetting the other scriptures that teach us each person will be judged/rewarded according to everything that he does! (See below for those scriptures) You cannot quote one part of the bible and ignore others that contradict your conclusion! That is where you are wrong. The unbels will only be judged based on what they did with Christ.Scripture reference please. Cos what you're saying is that every sin committed by the unsaved will go unpunished save the one that they didn't believe in Jesus?  Do you even realize that would be calling God unjust?I have quoted several that tell us EVERYONE will be judged according to what they do, that God will judge for ALL sins committed against Him. 2 Cor. 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. Revelation 2:23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. Revelation 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Revelation 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. No unbeliever will be rewarded for anything even if they are as "righteous" as Mother Theresa.It is not in dispute unbelievers will not be receiving any rewards because their righteousness is not based on Christ. You need to look at those scriptures again, and you'll find that rewards are only meant for those who have come to believe in Christ. We are the once that God will reward based on our faithfulness or otherwise. There is absolutely no hope for those who do not die in Christ to receive any blessings.I don't think I made any claims to the contrary. However there will be different levels to the severity of the punishment each receives. Worse sinners will get worse punishment Lk 12:47 And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few And what again does all this have to do with the topic? These men are not preaching a gospel like we see in the NT - bottomline. and hence it is a false gospel and must be condemned! |
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