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Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by advocate666: 10:15am On Jan 29, 2013 |
Ishilove: It is whatever you want it to be. |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by Chubhie: 10:17am On Jan 29, 2013 |
From the stable of Logicboy un usual...... |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by Nobody: 11:35am On Jan 29, 2013 |
musKeeto:who's this |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by advocate666: 2:15pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
mazaje: Learn to write. Where did you say south? You specifically singled out the igbo tribe. |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by plaetton: 2:28pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
Bravo logicboy! 1 Like |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by Nobody: 2:52pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
advocate666:Please let it go. I'm Igbo too. Let's not derail the thread, biko. |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by mazaje(m): 2:55pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
advocate666: OK, I apologize. . .I do not promote or encourage tribalism in any way. . . 6 Likes |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by mazaje(m): 3:03pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
Here is more for vexdaxcool that keeps LYING that the problem is from the north and not islam. . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X8dhrzQCHY Here is what an Islamic cleric called Muhammad Hussein Yaqoub. . .For those that can not watch the video, here is the transcipt of what he said word for word translated from arabic to english. . . Muhammad Hussein Yaqoub: If the Jews left Palestine to us, would we start loving them? Of course not. We will never love them. Absolutely not. The Jews are infidels not because I say so, and not because they are killing Muslims, but because Allah said: The Jews say that Uzair is the son of Allah, and the Christians say that Christ is the son of Allah. These are the words from their mouths. They imitate the sayings of the disbelievers before. May Allah fight them. How deluded they are. It is Allah who said that they are infidels. [That's Qur'an 9:30.] Your belief regarding the Jews should be, first, that they are infidels, and second, that they are enemies. They are enemies not because they occupied Palestine. They would have been enemies even if they did not occupy a thing. Allah said: You shall find the strongest men in enmity to the disbelievers [sic] to be the Jews and the polytheists. [Thats Qur'an 5:82.] Third, you must believe that the Jews will never stop fighting and killing us. They [fight] not for the sake of land and security, as they claim, but for the sake of their religion: And they will not cease fighting you until they turn you back youre your religion, if they can. [Thats Qur'an 2:217.] This is it. We must believe that our fighting with the Jews is eternal, and it will not end until the final battle and this is the fourth point. You must believe that we will fight, defeat, and annihilate them, until not a single Jew remains on the face of the Earth. It is not me who says so. The Prophet said: Judgment Day will not come until you fight the Jews and kill them. The Jews will hide behind stones and trees, and the stones and tree will call: Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him except for the Gharqad tree, which is the tree of the Jews. I have heard that they are planting many of these trees now. [...] [That Hadith can be found at Sahih Muslim 6985.] As for you Jews the curse of Allah upon you. The curse of Allah upon you, whose ancestors were apes and pigs. [That's Qur'an 2:62-65; 5:59-60; and 7:166.] You Jews have sown hatred in our hearts, and we have bequeathed it to our children and grandchildren. You will not survive as long as a single one of us remains. [...] Oh Jews, may the curse of Allah be upon you. Oh Jews... Oh Allah, bring Your wrath, punishment, and torment down upon them. Allah, we pray that you transform them again, and make the Muslims rejoice again in seeing them as apes and pigs. You pigs of the earth! You pigs of the earth! You kill the Muslims with that cold pig [blood] of yours. 2 Likes |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by mazaje(m): 3:07pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9BOPR3yhY4&feature=related Here is another muslim preacher from UEA declaring that their war with the jews is a religious one sanctioned by the koran. . .The guy claims that allah has gathered the jews in israel to make it easier for muslims to fight them. Can the LYING vedaxcool provide a video of any hindu or christian using the bible or the verdes in this mordern era for justification or basis for fighting muslims? The problem is islam not the people residing in the north of Nigeria. . . 4 Likes |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by Nobody: 3:14pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
@mazaje. SMH. Peacemaker indeed. How can any human believe that the coming of the end must be spearheaded by the destruction of a race. The problem with Islam is that the good adherents don't condemn statements like this. They seat back and chant:'islam is peace'. In christainity, their are flaws too, but what distinguishes it from islam, is the willingness to massively condemn a senseless deed or statement by whosoever. 2 Likes |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by Nobody: 3:16pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
mazaje: Here is more for vexdaxcool that keeps LYING that the problem is from the north and not islam. . . Good afternoon mazaje, The above is very disturbing! Are you saying that the interpretation giving by the cleric is generally accepted by every Islamic scholar as correct? Or is there some other interpretation to those verses? I know too well not to take some words at face value! Context in which some words are used is very important here. Just like advocate disregarded the context in which you used some of the seemingly "tribalistic" words, don't you think this cleric is making the same mistake? I do hope tbaba or some other 'Islamic scholar' would shed some light on this. Thank you! |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by Nobody: 3:30pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
jammyng: who's this Good afternoon jammy, This is for your ears only...***draws close in whispers***...that's ma Uncle muskeeto...he knows Karate...Lol!!! 1 Like |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by Nobody: 3:48pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
@ mazaje n muskeeto,una head dey there.vedaxcool has to learn to look at d message instead of d messenger.yes,logicboy is an atheist,but he has proferred a most constructive n productive means of curtailing d excesses of islamic extremists .i haven't heard or read any muslim leader making dis much sense out of their religion.muslims, read,ponder d op n go do thou likewise.kudos to logicboy for dis wonderful piece. 1 Like |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by vedaxcool(m): 4:17pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
Oh dear mazaje, ever so ready not to use his small grey matter in getting to the truth, let me expose you and your lying memri tv, which if you had any respect for the truth u would have atleast wondered how truthful the material you putting forward actually is, like I said earlier greedy northerners like you who hide "your" wealth abroad rather than use it to aid your fellow tribes men in getting a better life, something you should have atleast learn from your white overlords, who attimes think of you as zwerte piete but still use their wealth in making the less privilage ones in their society have something to look out for, I reiterate that riots in the north is the hand work of street urchins who use it as a pretext to loot people property that is why even muslims from other part of the country pay dearly during such riots, the op is plainly garbage and nothing more than the pontification of an individual who tries to give something he dearly lacks and hardly understand Accusations of bias Brian Whitaker, the Middle East editor for The Guardian newspaper wrote in a public email debate with Carmon, that his problem with MEMRI was that it "poses as a research institute when it's basically a propaganda operation." [6] Earlier, Whitaker had charged that MEMRI's role was to "further the political agenda of Israel." and that MEMRI's website does not mention Carmon's employment for Israeli intelligence, or Meyrav Wurmser's political stance, which he described as an "extreme brand of Zionism." [4] Carmon responded to this by stating that his employment history is not a secret and was not political, as he served under opposing administrations of the Israeli government and that perhaps the issue was that he was Israeli: "If your complaint is that I am Israeli, then please say so." Carmon also questioned Whitaker's own biases, wondering if Whitaker's is biased in favor of Arabs -as his website on the middle east is named "Al-Bab" ("The Gateway" in Arabic)- stating: "I wonder how you would judge an editor whose website was called "Ha-Sha-ar" ("The Gateway" in Hebrew)?[6] Selectivity Several critics have accused MEMRI of selectivity. They state that MEMRI consistently picks for translation and dissemination the most extreme views, which portray the Arab and Muslim world in a negative light, while ignoring moderate views that are often found in the same media outlets.[4][30][30][31] [32]Juan Cole, a professor of Modern Middle East History at the University of Michigan, argues MEMRI has a tendency to "cleverly cherry-pick the vast Arabic press, which serves 300 million people, for the most extreme and objectionable articles and editorials...On more than one occasion I have seen, say, a bigoted Arabic article translated by MEMRI and when I went to the source on the web, found that it was on the same op-ed page with other, moderate articles arguing for tolerance. These latter were not translated."[33] Former head of the CIA's counterintelligence unit, Vincent Cannistraro, said that MEMRI "are selective and act as propagandists for their political point of view, which is the extreme-right of Likud. They simply don't present the whole picture."[34] [35]Laila Lalami, writing in The Nation, states that MEMRI "consistently picks the most violent, hateful rubbish it can find, translates it and distributes it in e-mail newsletters to media and members of Congress in Washington".[30] As a result, critics such as Ken Livingstone state, MEMRI's analyses are "distortion". [36][37] A report by Center for American Progress, titled "Fear, Inc. The Roots of the Islamophobia Network in America" lists MEMRI as promoting Islamophobic propaganda in the USA through supplying selective translations that are relied upon by several organisations "to make the case that Islam is inherently violent and promotes extremism."[38] MEMRI argues that they are quoting the government-controlled press and not obscure or extremist publications, a fact their critics acknowledge, according to Marc Perelman."When we quote Al- Ahram in Egypt, it is as if we were quoting The New York Times. We know there are people questioning our work, probably those who have difficulties seeing the truth. But no one can show anything wrong about our translations."[34] Alleged translation inaccuracy See also: Tomorrow's Pioneers# Translation controversy The accuracy of MEMRI's translations are considered "usually accurate" though occasionally disputed and highly selective in what it chooses to translate and in which context it puts things,[39] as in the case of MEMRI's translation of a 2004 Osama bin Laden video, which MEMRI defended.[6][37][40][41][42] Norman Finkelstein, in an interview with the newspaper In Focus compared MEMRI to the "propaganda techniques" of the Nazis.[43] Following the 7 July 2005 London bombings, Al Jazeera invited Hani al- Sebai, an Islamist living in Britain, to take part in a discussion on the event. For one segment of the discussion in regard to the victims, MEMRI provided the following translation of al-Sebai's words: the term civilians does not exist in Islamic religious law. Dr Karmi is sitting here, and I am sitting here, and I’m familiar with religious law. There is no such term as civilians in the modern western sense. People are either at war or not.[44] Al-Sebai subsequently claimed that MEMRI had mistranslated his interview, and that among other errors, he had actually said: there is no term in Islamic jurisprudence called civilians. Dr Karmi is here sitting with us, and he's very familiar with the jurisprudence. There are fighters and non-fighters. Islam is against the killing of innocents. The innocent man cannot be killed according to Islam. By leaving out the condemnation of the "killing of innocents" entirely, Mohammed El Oifi writing in Le Monde diplomatique argued that this translation left the implication that civilians (the innocent) are considered a legitimate target.[36] Several British newspapers subsequently used MEMRI's translation to run headlines such as "Islamic radical has praised the suicide bomb attacks on the capital"[45] prompting al-Sebai to demand an apology and take legal action. In his view, MEMRI's translation was also "an incitement to have me arrested by the British authorities."[46] |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by vedaxcool(m): 4:20pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute Read more there, if you have guts to face the truth, mosquito, keep up with the mosquito chants, it disturbs, but reminds one of the word plain nuisance indeed! |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by tbaba1234: 4:22pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
mazaje: Only one reading the koran with the eyes of faith could seriously disregard that the book on almost every page instructs observant muslims to despise non believers. On almost every page, it prepares the ground for religious conflict. This is so wrong and a grossly unfair assessment... I have not only read the Quran, I have studied it. The Arabic. I understand the history context of many ayat and the meanings of words and how they are used. I replied to this comment because many would read it and say it is a fact, even if they have not read the Quran themselves. So to say, it espouses despise of 'unbeliever' is wrong because the Quran never uses the term 'unbeliever'. Lesley Hazleton studied the Quran with its historical contexts and had this to say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7yaDlZfqrc The truth is that the converse is the case. If you read the Quran with a bias or with hatred. You will always find things to complain about. Many non-muslims actually gain a greater respect for the Quran after reading it, even if they do not become muslim. They are taught that the book is so bad and evil until they read it for themselves. There are many ex-muslim haters who actually reverted to Islam or developed a friendlier approach to muslims after reading the Quran for themselves. To say, my faith bias blinds me to hate is ridiculous... Maybe someday, we can have a detailed discussion to talk about ayat in the Quran so i can clear up what you consider 'hate'. For those you want to read the Quran for themselves, here's a PDF copy: http://asadullahali.files./2010/09/the_quran.pdf Read it and develop your own opinions. |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by Nobody: 4:26pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
striktlymi:you do not need to br reckless to incure the wrath of that boy. Innocent question he can not answer is enough |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by Nobody: 4:31pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
Mee234:What? |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by Nobody: 4:31pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
tbaba1234: Please, address the topic. I thought that my letter would reach educated muslims as yourself. Lesley Hazleton is a shill. She is a confused woman with a less than scholarly knowledge of Arabic. I would prefer you use better sources. |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by Nobody: 4:31pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
Mee234: come again? |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by Nobody: 4:32pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
Vedaxcool please learn from tbaba... |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by Nobody: 4:37pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
Btw, thread's been moved to the Muslim section... |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by Nobody: 4:43pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
advocate666: Logicboy, just look at Vedaxcool, tbaba1234 posts and the other silent muslims and see the type of people your are trying to change. Do you honestly believe that? Advocate, you should realise that lasting peace and progress does not come when the rights of people are being trampled upon! As long as we have cases where people are barred from being religious or where individuals are persecuted because they are not into religion or where the rights of the minority are being used as toilet paper, there can never be meaningful peace and progress. Thank you! |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by Nobody: 4:45pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
musKeeto: Btw, thread's been moved to the Muslim section... I noticed too! I wonder why it hasn't made front page yet...hmmm! |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by tbaba1234: 4:51pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
Logicboy03: I will address the topic but i will first clear the dust raised by mistranslated and misquoted ayat. Lesley Hazleton is far more educated about the middle east and Islam than many people here. She has written (or is writing) books on Islamic history and the biography of the prophet so she understands what the Quran is talking about.. |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by tbaba1234: 6:41pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
mazaje: Here is more for vexdaxcool that keeps LYING that the problem is from the north and not islam. . . @Mazaje Given the history between muslims and Jews... Do you really think we are 'eternal enemies"?? This myth has only been perpetuated in the last century given the Israeli-palestianian conflict... In actual fact, Islam saved Jewry. Islam saved Jewry. This is an unpopular, discomforting claim in the modern world. But it is a historical truth. The argument for it is double. First, in 570 CE, when the Prophet Mohammad was born, the Jews and Judaism were on the way to oblivion. And second, the coming of Islam saved them, providing a new context in which they not only survived, but flourished, laying foundations for subsequent Jewish cultural prosperity - also in Christendom - through the medieval period into the modern world. By the fourth century, Christianity had become the dominant religion in the Roman empire. One aspect of this success was opposition to rival faiths, including Judaism, along with massive conversion of members of such faiths, sometimes by force, to Christianity. Much of our testimony about Jewish existence in the Roman empire from this time on consists of accounts of conversions. Great and permanent reductions in numbers through conversion, between the fourth and the seventh centuries, brought with them a gradual but relentless whittling away of the status, rights, social and economic existence, and religious and cultural life of Jews all over the Roman empire. A long series of enactments deprived Jewish people of their rights as citizens, prevented them from fulfilling their religious obligations, and excluded them from the society of their fellows. Had Islam not come along, Jewry in the west would have declined to disappearance and Jewry in the east would have become just another oriental cult This is from the Jewish Chronicle: Read more: http://www.thejc.com/comment-and-debate/comment/68082/so-what-did-muslims-do-jews Judaism would actually have gone into extinction from the prosecution of christianity had Islam not come along. Rabbi Isaac Tzarfati invited the Jews who were suffering intense persecution in central europe to the land of the muslims : “…Listen my brethren, to the counsel I will give you. I, too, was born in Germany and studied Torah with the German rabbis. I was driven out of my native country and came into the Turkish land, which is blessed by God and filled with all good things. Here I found rest and happiness. Turkey can also become for you the land of peace. ..If you who live in Germany knew even a tenth of what God has blessed us with in this land, you would not consider any difficulties, you would set out to come to us...Here in the land of the Turks we have nothing to complain of. We possess great fortunes; much gold and silver are in our hands. We are not oppressed with heavy taxes, and our commerce is free and unhindered. Rich are the fruits of the earth. Everything is cheap, and everyone of us lives in peace and freedom. Here the Jew is not compelled to wear a yellow hat as a badge of shame, as is the case in Germany...Arise my brethren, give up your lands, collect your forces, and come to us. Here you will be free of your enemies, here you will find rest...(Shaw, 1991, p.32).” Now this is from a historical perspective, The statement attributed to the cleric is one of the extreme fringes positions that exist amongst muslims but it is by no means the mainstream position. Before the conflict in palestine, there were jews living in all the arab/muslim countries in peace. They still have significant number of Jews living in Morocco, Yemen, Iran and a few other states. As regards the ayat quoted, let's examine each one of them First of all, the word Kafir translated as 'infidel' is inaccurate as the word refers to something being buried or rejected.. Let's go to lanes lexicon, a classical arabic dictionary and a common reference for those who study the Quran: He veiled, concealed, hid, or covered, the thing: (S, A,* Mgh,* Mqb, ; or he covered the thing so as to detroy it: (Az, TA and &C* .' , aor. [and inf. n.] as above, he corered it; covered it / http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000148.pdf A more appropriate translation is 'disbeliever' one who has covered, rejected or covered Islam when it was presented to him in a clear way. A person who never hears about Islam or never heard about it in the true form, is not considered a kafir. Let see the extent of poor translations and misunderstood historical concepts. First ayat: The Jews said, ‘Ezra is the son of God,’a and the Christians said, ‘The Messiah is the son of God’: they said this with their own mouths, repeating what earlier disbelievers had said. May God confound them! How far astray they have been led! (Surah 9:30) A sect amongst the jews had called Ezra the son of God. Here God simply rejects the claim of certain Jews and christians and comments on how far they have been led astray because they repeat statements mentioned by group of disbelievers (attributing sons and daughters to God).. second ayat: You [Prophet] are sure to find that the most hostile to the believers are the Jews and those who associate other deities with God; you are sure to find that the closest in affection towards the believers are those who say, ‘We are Christians,’ for there are among them people devoted to learning and ascetics.a These people are not given to arrogance (5:82) Third ayat: They ask you [Prophet] about fighting in the prohibited month. Say, ‘Fighting in that month is a great offence, but to bar others from God’s path, to disbelieve in Him, prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and expel its people, are still greater offences in God’s eyes: persecution is worse than killing. They will not stop fighting you [believers] until they make you revoke your faith, if they can. If any of you revoke your faith and die as disbelievers, your deeds will come to nothing in this world and the Hereafter, and you will be inhabitants of the Fire, there to remain. (Surah 2:217) This was in relation to the paganso f Mecca who had killed the muslims, chased them out of their homes and confiscated their properties. This continued for a period of 10 years. The muslims remained non-violent until the command for all of that period until the command to fight back was given when we had a State. Fourth quote: Even after that you turned away. Had it not been for God’s favour and mercy on you, you would certainly have been lost. You know about those of you who broke the Sabbath, and so We said to them, ‘Be like apes!b Be outcasts!’ (Surah 2:64-65) A discussion about a certain group of Jews that broke the sabbath, a discussion with the children of Israel Nothing here is a calling for hate.. The last quote about a battle with certain groups of Jews in the end times is true 1 Like |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by Nobody: 6:49pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
@tbaba: it seems like you'd rather try to convert us to Islam than address the matter at hand. Save it for another thread. Those imams misguiding the youths or 'urchins' as our resident troll would like to call them, aren't preaching to them from the Bible or the pages of any science book. They're preaching from the Quran. Now as to whether whatever they're preaching is right or wrong by Islamic standards is none of our concern. People are being killed In NIGERIA by NIGERIANS... Take note of the capitalized - NIGERIA, not Israel or Pakistan or wherever... What's the best way to handle this? The Militants in the south had their own problems, yeah they may have been Christians but no one ever blamed it on the Bible. Why is Islam different? What makes an uneducated young man so blood thirsty that he would kill in the name of God? Keep your proselytizing for another day. Address the issue here, pls.. At least, vedaxcool made a feeble attempt... Thanks. 3 Likes |
Re: An Atheist's Letter To Nigerian Muslims (El Rufai's Tweet Didnt Result In Riots) by tbaba1234: 6:53pm On Jan 29, 2013 |
musKeeto: @tbaba: it seems like you'd rather try to convert us to Islam than address the matter at hand. Save it for another thread. I have not done any proselytizing... I just cleared up mazaje's fallacious posts.... Time to pray, id be back. |
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