usisky:





Peace Ma'am.

I think your comment above is rather prejudice and a malicious one. How do you lump people together and label them NON-BELIEVERS? HOW do you know they are non-believers?

Please desist from making these kinda statements; it paints you ugly. No harm intended.

PEACE!!

Simple, you look at
1. their posts
2. What they have declared to believe or not believe in

@tpia
I understand your point.

@usisky
I SMH for you too. Though it's not worth it going back and forth with you, it may do you some good to answer this simple question: what's your own definition of an unbeliever?

most muslims label me a hypocrite because i speak the truth,because i refused to be bullied by arabic culture. i want to categorically clear all doubts
I AM A MUSLIM,and if you think otherwise,well its your business not mine.
btw i give credit when its due. and i dont despise non-muslims,if i do i am being a bad muslim.

zayhal: @tpia
I understand your point.

@usisky
I SMH for you too. Though it's not worth it going back and forth with you, it may do you some good to answer this simple question: what's your own definition of an unbeliever?

A very good question.

Justaqad
You're just one funny internet character. Who or what is bullying you by arabic culture? What exactly are you afraid of?

And what truth are you speaking? That you don't want arabic names? I just see you as itching for an argument especially to gain cheap popularity on here. Even if your arguments about the name thing is justified. Shouldn't you be happy to bear arabic names simply because arabic is the language of the qur'an and/or because you simply want to associate yourself with the noble Prophet Muhammad?

Another cheap score is saying you do not despise non-muslims. Who's asking you to despise non-muslims? I have non-muslims as close and distant relatives, friends, colleagues, neighbours. I have very wonderful ones among them and the word 'despise' never comes to mind when dealing with them. We relate well as long as each party respects himself and does not cross the line. But I will not watch them or keep quiet when they blaspheme Islam.

zayhal: Justaqad
You're just one funny internet character. Who or what is bullying you by arabic culture? What exactly are you afraid of?

arabic infiltration it has done so much damage already

zayhal:
And what truth are you speaking? That you don't want arabic names? I just see you as itching for an argument especially to gain cheap popularity on here. Even if your arguments about the name thing is justified. Shouldn't you be happy to bear arabic names simply because arabic is the language of the qur'an and/or because you simply want to associate yourself with the noble Prophet Muhammad?

being a muslim is what makes me happy not bearing arabic names. ia m proud of my race.

zayhal:
Another cheap score is saying you do not despise non-muslims. Who's asking you to despise non-muslims? I have non-muslims as close and distant relatives, friends, colleagues, neighbours. I have very wonderful ones among them and the word 'despise' never comes to mind when dealing with them. We relate well as long as each party respects himself and does not cross the line. But I will not watch them or keep quiet when they blaspheme Islam.

stop lying through your teeth. most muslims despise no-muslims.
you dont need lectures on this

justaqad: arabic infiltration it has done so much damage already

being a muslim is what makes me happy not bearing arabic names. ia m proud of my race.



stop lying through your teeth. most muslims despise no-muslims.
you dont need lectures on this

I laugh in Chinese. You are veeeeeery sincere Muslim I see.

maclatunji:

I laugh in Chinese. You are veeeeeery sincere Muslim I see.

you are an intolerant muslim. no need ranting

justaqad:

you are an intolerant muslim. no need ranting

Case closed. No need to look any further.

maclatunji:

Case closed. No need to look any further.

I love this thread! Its a real eye opener. Maybe I should bookmark it. For reference in future.

goldylock: I love this thread! Its a real eye opener. Maybe I should bookmark it. For reference in future.

why?

justaqad:

why?

Is d question for my love for the thread? Or the fact that its an eye opener or that am gonna use it as a reference?

justaqad: most muslims label me a hypocrite because i speak the truth...

and most of the muslims you know don't speak the truth?

goldylock:

Is d question for my love for the thread? Or the fact that its an eye opener or that am gonna use it as a reference?

Hahahaah. You are falling for a cheap trick. Have you verified the bonafide of the OP
A Barcelona player who is a favourite of Real Madrid fans is not strange to you?

F00028:
and most of the muslims you know don't speak the truth?

Whenever anyone thinks he is the only good person in the society, he should reconsider what it means to be good
There must be a kink somewhere in that self appraisal and adulation

justaqad: most muslims label me a hypocrite because i speak the truth,because i refused to be bullied by arabic culture. i want to categorically clear all doubts
I AM A MUSLIM,and if you think otherwise,well its your business not mine.
btw i give credit when its due. and i dont despise non-muslims,if i do i am being a bad muslim.

You do not need to justify your convictions to anybody. If they think your "Muslimness" is not good enough, well they're not God.

BTW, calling non-muslims unbelievers is highly condescending & is a reflection of the high level of intolerance amongst a large no of Muslims nowadays. They give the impression that you can't be a good Muslim and still love a fellow human being who happens not to be a Muslim. If that's truly what they think, well the very essence of religion is thus defeated & that is highly shameful.

I am from a Muslim background too & have taken a lot of time to study different religious ideologies. In my opinion, once your religion starts teaching you that people of other religions are less human & thus are condemnable to eternal damnation, start questioning those beliefs fast. Otherwise, before you know it, you've been turned into a hate-filled monster.

skyfall:

You do not need to justify your convictions to anybody. If they think your "Muslimness" is not good enough, well they're not God.

BTW, calling non-muslims unbelievers is highly condescending & is a reflection of the high level of intolerance amongst a large no of Muslims nowadays. They give the impression that you can't be a good Muslim and still love a fellow human being who happens not to be a Muslim. If that's truly what they think, well the very essence of religion is thus defeated & that is highly shameful.

I am from a Muslim background too & have taken a lot of time to study different religious ideologies. In my opinion, once your religion starts teaching you that people of other religions are less human & thus are condemnable to eternal damnation, start questioning those beliefs fast. Otherwise, before you know it, you've been turned into a hate-filled monster.

Nice one. But if u r a muslim and have this opinion they r gonna think there is something wrong with you. If you are not very well then let the hate continue.(Their thought not mine)

skyfall:

You do not need to justify your convictions to anybody. If they think your "Muslimness" is not good enough, well they're not God.

BTW, calling non-muslims unbelievers is highly condescending & is a reflection of the high level of intolerance amongst a large no of Muslims nowadays. They give the impression that you can't be a good Muslim and still love a fellow human being who happens not to be a Muslim. If that's truly what they think, well the very essence of religion is thus defeated & that is highly shameful.

I am from a Muslim background too & have taken a lot of time to study different religious ideologies. In my opinion, once your religion starts teaching you that people of other religions are less human & thus are condemnable to eternal damnation, start questioning those beliefs fast. Otherwise, before you know it, you've been turned into a hate-filled monster.

Can we PROVE that Islam hates more than other religions do
Given the number of muslims in Nigeria, if these claims were true how many attacks would we witness daily?
We would not arrive at any meaningful conclusion by expressing opinions. We need to assemble evidence and draw conclusions

BTW EVERY religion calls non-adherents non-believers. That statement is true by definition
ManU supporters certainly will call Man City fans non-supporters, opponents etc and vice versa
No need to single out any religion. Of course if you have facts to the contrary, I am ready to withdraw my statement
But the Bible too in the Book of 2 Corinthians 6 says
Do not be yoked with the infidels, What has darkness got to with light

Is this condescension?
Again like I said, let us compare evidence for various religions

Go near a mosque on Friday and listen to sermons and go near a Church on Sunday or any other day they congregate and listen to sermons
Listen to what both groups pray for and against
Read the literature that muslims publish about Christinaity and read what Christians publish about Islam

goldylock:

Nice one. But if u r a muslim and have this opinion they r gonna think there is something wrong with you. If you are not very well then let the hate continue.(Their thought not mine)

I reckon these posts represent your idea of love?

goldylock: If it were Islam thing now una go start to dey disturb person from thursday with how good islam is. Well today is sunday look for a christian thread and put on the frontpage too! Even if it is have you praised him today?

goldylock: No body is going to appologise to Islam. Islam has not apologised to the world yet for all the pain it has put people through. You can't push people to the wall and expect them not to react. BTW must everything be about Islam? Ok story is false we should thank God and some dumb ass is asking for apology. Abeg go and die.

^^
so you accept that if the bible says something it makes it acceptable? Times without number you keep agreeing that the bible is the book of life.

@BetaThings

This is not really a comparison of religions. But it's only the Abrahamic religions who have the "my god is the only true one, yours is fake" doctrine. I'm talking Judaism, Islam & Christianity.


Over time, Christianity has evolved to a large extent. Murderous doctrines of the past have been abandoned and it's only extremist Christians who will justify hate & violence in the name of their God and those are in the minority today. The religion still has its own issues but intolerance is definitely not one of them.


Judaism has always been the same. It's not just a religion but a racial one. You can't be a Judaist without being a Jew. And their religion has been highly diluted with local politics, but unless you're a Palestinian, chances are you may never encounter a Judaist in your entire lifetime.


The very ideology of Islam enjoins & expects Muslims to keep striving until Islamic law is entrenched in every part of the world. That could make sense 1000+ yrs ago when the world was very small but definitely not today that people have access to information and have freedom of choice as a basic human right. So Islam too is a political religion and that's why it'll always have problems with the West. (Did you hear a recent case of some fanatical Muslims trying to implement Shariah law on the streets of London?)


But the major problem with Islam is that change is not allowed in the religion. In fact that's its only problem. Islam does not condone dissent. Many Muslims know that some Islamic doctrines do not have a place in the modern world, but they can't even say it loud for fear of being labeled apostates. In fact in some Muslim countries, condemning the Sharia will either land you in jail or cost you your life. If you change your religion, then you're toast (www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Persecution_of_Ex-Muslim).


Non-Muslims will not see Islam as a peaceful religion just because Muslims say so, but only if Muslims evolve their ideologies.


As I said before, this is not a quest to find out which religion is better. It's just a discussion of how old religious ideologies fit into a modern world. There's really no need quoting the holy books. I'd rather base my analysis on what adherents of each religion do and which they justify using these holy books.

Bélla3: ^^
so you accept that if the bible says something it makes it acceptable? Times without number you keep agreeing that the bible is the book of life.

Saying that EVERY religion calls non-adherents unbeliever implies that I agree that the Bible is what? I certainly know it is not anyway
Reading what you believe as a Christian into my unambiguous post undermines your credibility and might end up as a disservice to Christianity
I don't like discussing the Bible because that does not add much to me or my posts
I only demonstrated that even the Bible preaches differences between believers and unbelievers

skyfall: @BetaThings

This is not really a comparison of religions. But it's the Abrahamic religions who have the "my god is the only true one, yours is fake" doctrine. I'm talking Judaism, Islam & Christianity.


Over time, Christianity has evolved to a large extent. Murderous doctrines of the past have been abandoned and it's only extremist Christians who will justify hate & violence in the name of their God and those are in the minority today. The religion still has its own issues but intolerance is definitely not one of them.

You don't seem to know so much about Christianity in Nigeria
Christians curse more than any other group in Nigeria. They preach for the death of others than any other group
Christians publish more hate-filled books than any other group. They distort messages (even the Qur'an) more than any other group
Citing secularism, Christians in Nigeria rose up in arms against Islamic Banking - a project that will be funded with private money
Yet none remembered secularism when the federal government used government money to commission a Christmas Tree in FCT
Christians did not raise any objection when the Plateau state government declared the state a Christian state. Nobody was allowed to forget sharia issue in Zamfara
Have you ever seen any Christian caution another for using offensive language on Nairaland?
I can bring copious evidence that muslims do
I can back up every claim I have made here with facts
Muslim extremists are in the minority. Most of the things I complain about Christianity are done by both Christian leadership and the laity

skyfall:
Judaism has always been the same. It's not just a religion but a racial one. You can't be a Judaist without being a Jew. And their religion has been highly diluted with local politics, but unless you're a Palestinian, chances are you may never encounter a Judaist in your entire lifetime.

[quote author=skyfall]
The very ideology of Islam enjoins & expects Muslims to keep striving until Islamic law is entrenched in every part of the world. That could make sense 1000+ yrs ago when the world was very small but definitely not today that people have access to information and have freedom of choice as a basic human right. So Islam too is a political religion and that's why it'll always have problems with the West. (Did you hear a recent case of some fanatical Muslims trying to implement Shariah law on the streets of London?)

There is no religion that does not preach or try to convert everyone on earth
That is why Christians do evangelism on Tv, do crusades, preach on foot in the markets, at 5am in residential estates etc
That is why Christians publish fake Qur'an
That is why Christians voted money to build churches in Iraq following the war, the budget was $100,000 apiece
Christians support political activities all the time. Nigerian Christians support the Iraqi war
They compose curses against Hamas

skyfall:
But the major problem with Islam is that change is not allowed in the religion. In fact that's its only problem. Islam does not condone dissent. Many Muslims know that some Islamic doctrines do not have a place in the modern world, but they can't even say it loud for fear of being labeled apostates. In fact in some Muslim countries, condemning the Sharia will either land you in jail or cost you your life. If you change your religion, then you're toast (www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Persecution_of_Ex-Muslim).

No matter how much people change, people will want more. There are Christians that are unhappy with its stance on ga.y marriage
And also its stance on female priests. no matter what you do, there will be grievances
I have no problem with muslims who want to evolve. But how do we evolve? By their say so? Does it remain an instruction from Allah when human beings tinker with it?
We often believe that we know a lot to change things when actually we don't know enough
Do you believe that we know enough about the long term implications of ga.y marriage?
And of course, if somebody is not happy with a state of Islam, he should leave. Many have done so
Tunde Bakare is an "apostate". Ashimolowo is another
I have seen a thread on NL where a Christian says a prince in Kuwait converted to Christianity
Part of the problem I have is on one instance Christians declare that many muslims convert daily in their churches
Yet I am told that when people convert from Islam they are toast

skyfall:
Non-Muslims will not see Islam as a peaceful religion just because Muslims say so, but only if Muslims evolve their ideologies.

As I said before, this is not a quest to find out which religion is better. It's just a discussion of how old religious ideologies fit into a modern world. There's really no need quoting the holy books. I'd rather base my analysis on what adherents of each religion do and which they justify using these holy books.

We have problem of extremism with some minority elements. But that is just that
Evolving our ideology will not stop terrorism
We need to reduce the number of people who are listening to extremists
We have an opportunity now that some BH members want to stop killing people

But Muslims equally don't see Christianity (forget judaism, it does not matter) as fair when lies are told against Islam
Do you really believe that Christians pass the test of practicality when we leave the books
I have suggested you listen to sermons, look at what thy put on paper
Popes have given permission for offensive wars
Pastors have abetted aggressors in WWII and recently in Rwanda
American soldiers are killing muslim civilians in Iraq while shouting Jesus killed Mohammed,
And Sarah Palin said the Iraqi war is a task from God
Nigerian Christians automatically take sides with Israel on issues and declare muslims as troublesome without paying any attention to history
BTW they were taken aback when the same Israel is forcibly sterilising black Jews
And now we see that CAN has told us that insults on Jesus* might be met with violence
So looking at deeds Christians don't have endearing records
the Bible too takes second place

*I don't actually believe in freedom to insult revered figures

BetaThings:

I reckon these posts represent your idea of love?

LMAO hahahahahahahahah!!! Like seriously u went through my post and all you could find was that?? Its my opinion I won't apologise for it! I DO NOT LIKE THE ISLAMIC IDEOLOGY. It has not given me any reason to like it. I won't pretend about it because I don't have to. Skyfall made a point I totally agree with if you feel it is intolerant to not like bad ideologies honey a transformer should be in your neighbourhood try use am with one bucket of water.

goldylock:

LMAO hahahahahahahahah!!! Like seriously u went through my post and all you could find was that?? Its my opinion I won't apologise for it! I DO NOT LIKE THE ISLAMIC IDEOLOGY. It has not given me any reason to like it. I won't pretend about it because I don't have to. Skyfall made a point I totally agree with if you feel it is intolerant to not like bad ideologies honey a transformer should be in your neighbourhood try use am with one bucket of water.

I just wanted to point out that people who accuse Islam of hate don't actually demonstrate love
We typically don't see faults in ourselves, friends, groups etc but we notice the specks elsewhere
Unfortunately much of what Christians know about Islam is not first hand. They get their knowledge from publications by people who discredit Islam
I have heard Christians say Muslims pray to Muhammed (PBUH), that we claim the Qur'an dropped from the sky etc
Of course Christians are exposed to religious violence. That is not second hand. But religious violence might have tribal elements
BTW Have a LOVE-filled day

BetaThings:

I just wanted to point out that people who accuse Islam of hate don't actually demonstrate love
We typically don't see faults in ourselves, friends, groups etc but we notice the specks elsewhere
Unfortunately much of what Christians know about Islam is not first hand. They get their knowledge from publications by people who discredit Islam
I have heard Christians say Muslims pray to Muhammed (PBUH), that we claim the Qur'an dropped from the sky etc
Of course Christians are exposed to religious violence. That is not second hand. But religious violence might have tribal elements
BTW Have a LOVE-filled day

Hahahahaha thank you oh! It does not change my opinon sha. Have a wonderful day urself. PS I love you as a person I just don't quiet get your ideology and don't ask me to learn cos its more like abracadabra the more you see the less you understand.

@BetaThings

Well, you still ended up comparing the 2 religions. Your argument seems to be..."if some Xtians behave badly, then no one should condemn Muslims for being bad." But that's not good enough and your instances are mostly political instances. People, esp politicians always use religious sentiments to score points.

No adherents of any other religion would commit mass murder today and tell you that according to his God, he'll be rewarded for doing so, or that his prophet said so. The changes that the Islamic religion needs to go through are gigantic when compared to other religions.

Not that I'm blaming today Muslims for these problems though - no one was born with a particular religion's ID on his/her body. We all came into this world and simply adopted our parents' religions (If you were born into a Christian family, you'd be here defending the Holy Bible today). But the earlier we understand and admit this and start changing our mindset, the better for the world. I say this because I know that with the present state of things, the world can never be peaceful.

BetaThings:

Saying that EVERY religion calls non-adherents unbeliever implies that I agree that the Bible is what? I certainly know it is not anyway
Reading what you believe as a Christian into my unambiguous post undermines your credibility and might end up as a disservice to Christianity
I don't like discussing the Bible because that does not add much to me or my posts
I only demonstrated that even the Bible preaches differences between believers and unbelievers

*yawn* okay..

skyfall: @BetaThings

Well, you still ended up comparing the 2 religions. Your argument seems to be..."if some Xtians behave badly, then no one should condemn Muslims for being bad." But that's not good enough and your instances are mostly political instances. People, esp politicians always use religious sentiments to score points.

No adherents of any other religion would commit mass murder today and tell you that according to his God, he'll be rewarded for doing so, or that his prophet said so. The changes that the Islamic religion needs to go through are gigantic when compared to other religions.

Not that I'm blaming today Muslims for these problems though - no one was born with a particular religion's ID on his/her body. We all came into this world and simply adopted our parents' religions (If you were born into a Christian family, you'd be here defending the Holy Bible today). But the earlier we understand and admit this and start changing our mindset, the better for the world. I say this because I know that with the present state of things, the world can never be peaceful.

Thank you!

skyfall: @BetaThings

Well, you still ended up comparing the 2 religions. Your argument seems to be..."if some Xtians behave badly, then no one should condemn Muslims for being bad." But that's not good enough and your instances are mostly political instances. People, esp politicians always use religious sentiments to score points.

No adherents of any other religion would commit mass murder today and tell you that according to his God, he'll be rewarded for doing so, or that his prophet said so. The changes that the Islamic religion needs to go through are gigantic when compared to other religions.

Not that I'm blaming today Muslims for these problems though - no one was born with a particular religion's ID on his/her body. We all came into this world and simply adopted our parents' religions (If you were born into a Christian family, you'd be here defending the Holy Bible today). But the earlier we understand and admit this and start changing our mindset, the better for the world. I say this because I know that with the present state of things, the world can never be peaceful.

Oya let us see your template of reforms. #Hehehe

maclatunji:

Oya let us see your template of reforms. #Hehehe

I'll give you the honor. Start thinking of the doctrines in your religion which breeds intolerance & potentially threatens world peace. Those would be expunged first. Definitely not limited to Islam. This has to be done for any religion or ideology which hurts the cause of humanity.